| The 2024 General Election 14:36 - Oct 10 with 17261 views | johnlangy |
If Labour do win the 2024 General Election they will find themselves in a very strange situation regarding what they are able to achieve, at least in the short term.
People always want big, bold statements regarding huge investments in infrastructure, house building, energy developments to relieve our dependancy on other countries oil/gas and so on.
But I was struck by something Peter Kyle said yesterday. Labour will I’m sure make some major policy announcements but he also said this. Paraphrasing, he said it is shameful but it would be a huge achievement to get to a place where people could get an appointment with their GP, to get their NHS treatment that they’ve been waiting on for X years or to get a dental appointment.
He could have also said it would be an amazing achievement if, when people are mugged or their house is burgled that the police would turn up to investigate.
It’s a dreadful situation for the country to be in that the basic pillars of a civilised society aren’t there any more.
I’ve mentioned health but then there’s education (how many thousands of teachers are needed to fill all the vacancies which means our children’s education is suffering ?). And policing (see above) – the service is 20,000 officers short. No wonder the streets are becoming lawless. Then there’s the Prison Service and the CPS. It is all an utter shambles.
As far as I can see it all of this is down to one thing and that’s the austerity that the Conservatives have imposed on the country since 2010. They cut back massively in all departments in order to ‘bring the countries enormous debt down’. They asked that people accept the need for this pain and go along with it and that there was no other way to achieve the goal.
And after the pain of all that austerity where are we now ? In 2010 the debt was less than £1 trillion. It is now £2.6 trillion.
If they have cut back so enormously on spending, which by extension means that they were also able to cut back on borrowing, could someone explain to me where all this debt has come from ? |  | | |  |
| The 2024 General Election on 22:05 - Oct 10 with 1467 views | onehunglow |
| The 2024 General Election on 22:04 - Oct 10 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
At this point I feel it’s all so pointless I’ll probably end up just drawing a giant vagina on my ballot paper or something. |
At least you’re not doing it by numbers
Will be be colouring in | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 14:38 - Oct 11 with 1383 views | Badgeman |
| The 2024 General Election on 16:44 - Oct 10 by Flashberryjack |
They'll do what they always do, blame the conservatives. |
Imagine holding the government of the last 13 years accountable for the things they've done. Heaven forbid. |  |
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| The 2024 General Election on 14:39 - Oct 11 with 1383 views | Badgeman |
| The 2024 General Election on 17:46 - Oct 10 by trampie |
Starter attacked (perhaps not attacked, confronted, accosted, jostled, whatever) today at the Labour conference by a person representing a group I had not heard of 'People Demand Democracy', one thing they said on their statement that seemed to ring true to me was "“The Labour Party has been captured, donors and lobbyists have more control over Keir Starmer than his members". |
not like you to be distracted by shiny things or vague platitudes. | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 14:43 - Oct 11 with 1382 views | Badgeman |
| The 2024 General Election on 20:31 - Oct 10 by SullutaCreturned |
In the GE I am decided at the moment but in the Senedd I will never vote Labour or Tory.
We need rid of the blue b'stards for sure though.
Starmer needs to start winning people over, the tories surely cannot harm themselves anymore, Starmer needs to step up and stop being so wishy washy.
I saw Rayner on Tv earlier, she still sounds like a gobshite, she puts me off labour if anything. |
What's that? A working class woman with a regional accent being denounced as a gobshyte by a middle class, middle aged white man? How cliché. | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 15:15 - Oct 11 with 1358 views | Scotia |
We just have to get rid of the Tories at the next election. They are the most corrupt and self serving government in recent history, I don't think we could have expected much more from Johnson.
Ultimately, it's pointless who I vote for in Swansea east. Caroline Harris will win. I don't like her, but may actually vote for her myself just to give a vote to Labour and hopefully pile the agony on the Tories.
I can see a massive defeat for the Tories, and Sunak resigining, the only trouble is who comes next? I'd like to see a Tory shift back to the centre and away from the ERG, but I think Braverman is a likely replacement and the Tories will become a UKIP tribute act. That is genuinely worrying. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 15:17 - Oct 11 with 1351 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The 2024 General Election on 14:43 - Oct 11 by Badgeman |
What's that? A working class woman with a regional accent being denounced as a gobshyte by a middle class, middle aged white man? How cliché. |
Gobshyte might be a bit strong but nobody can argue there’s an ounce of intelligence or ability about her. |  |
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| The 2024 General Election on 16:31 - Oct 11 with 1296 views | trampie |
Labour leader supporting Israel, tells you everything you need to know about Labour, Labour supporting a right wing aparteid state over an oppressed people, it's shocking that Labour has gone in my lifetime from a Socialist party with some principles believing in equality to becoming a Tory party.
The electorate no longer have a choice, both main Westminster parties are very similar and if you count the traditional main 3 Westminster parties in the shape of the Lib-Dems there is still little choice. |  |
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| The 2024 General Election on 16:36 - Oct 11 with 1317 views | Whiterockin |
| The 2024 General Election on 16:31 - Oct 11 by trampie |
Labour leader supporting Israel, tells you everything you need to know about Labour, Labour supporting a right wing aparteid state over an oppressed people, it's shocking that Labour has gone in my lifetime from a Socialist party with some principles believing in equality to becoming a Tory party.
The electorate no longer have a choice, both main Westminster parties are very similar and if you count the traditional main 3 Westminster parties in the shape of the Lib-Dems there is still little choice. |
Never mind the SNP will lead Scotland to independence and Wales will quickly follow. 12 months is a long time in politics.  |  | | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 17:40 - Oct 11 with 1266 views | Gwyn737 |
| The 2024 General Election on 15:15 - Oct 11 by Scotia |
We just have to get rid of the Tories at the next election. They are the most corrupt and self serving government in recent history, I don't think we could have expected much more from Johnson.
Ultimately, it's pointless who I vote for in Swansea east. Caroline Harris will win. I don't like her, but may actually vote for her myself just to give a vote to Labour and hopefully pile the agony on the Tories.
I can see a massive defeat for the Tories, and Sunak resigining, the only trouble is who comes next? I'd like to see a Tory shift back to the centre and away from the ERG, but I think Braverman is a likely replacement and the Tories will become a UKIP tribute act. That is genuinely worrying. |
It a real worry what the next incarnation of the Tory party will look like.
The polls look pretty set in the mid twenties for them - how many of those are exUKIP?
If they change course they could mount a serious opposition to a Labour government who will have a tough first term,
If it’s a Braverman type, they’re out of power for a decade or more. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 20:43 - Oct 11 with 1222 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 2024 General Election on 14:43 - Oct 11 by Badgeman |
What's that? A working class woman with a regional accent being denounced as a gobshyte by a middle class, middle aged white man? How cliché. |
Where have you got the idea that I am middle class? That's just a crass assumption so you can try to points score.
A gobshite is a gobshite regardless of age, gender or background.
Funny thing, I also have a regional accent, it's SW Walian/Swansea and easily identified as Welsh by anybody from other parts of the UK.
Esited to ask, what is more working class, a politician or a postman/cleaner/car park attendant? Go on, give a straight answer. [Post edited 11 Oct 2023 20:52]
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| The 2024 General Election on 20:46 - Oct 11 with 1211 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 2024 General Election on 17:40 - Oct 11 by Gwyn737 |
It a real worry what the next incarnation of the Tory party will look like.
The polls look pretty set in the mid twenties for them - how many of those are exUKIP?
If they change course they could mount a serious opposition to a Labour government who will have a tough first term,
If it’s a Braverman type, they’re out of power for a decade or more. |
If they do become a UKIP tribute act I reckon it'll keep them in opposition for 15 years or more, unless they wise up.
But then, they have spent a very long time getting to this point without wising up so we may have a Labour government for a fair while. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 20:49 - Oct 11 with 1203 views | Dr_Winston |
I'm liking a lot of the noises being made at the Labour Conference. Starmer pledging to ignore NIMBY's, Wes Streeting acknowledging that pouring countless Billions into the NHS without reform is pointless (that will piss a LOT of people off) and a few other bits and pieces.
In a PR system I could even be tempted to vote for them this time. However, I won't be voting for them next time because a Labour vote from me would be a vote for Carolyn Harris, a colossal sh*tsack whom the people of Swansea East see fit to elect to represent them. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 2024 General Election on 21:21 - Oct 11 with 1167 views | Gwyn737 |
| The 2024 General Election on 20:49 - Oct 11 by Dr_Winston |
I'm liking a lot of the noises being made at the Labour Conference. Starmer pledging to ignore NIMBY's, Wes Streeting acknowledging that pouring countless Billions into the NHS without reform is pointless (that will piss a LOT of people off) and a few other bits and pieces.
In a PR system I could even be tempted to vote for them this time. However, I won't be voting for them next time because a Labour vote from me would be a vote for Carolyn Harris, a colossal sh*tsack whom the people of Swansea East see fit to elect to represent them. |
I like the NHS stuff too.
As well as reform there’s a serious policy to shrink waiting lists as opposed to the Tory policy of blaming immigrants. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 21:25 - Oct 11 with 1164 views | Scotia |
| The 2024 General Election on 20:46 - Oct 11 by SullutaCreturned |
If they do become a UKIP tribute act I reckon it'll keep them in opposition for 15 years or more, unless they wise up.
But then, they have spent a very long time getting to this point without wising up so we may have a Labour government for a fair while. |
It could happen.
Labour lurched to the left after Brown and that was a disaster, I can see the Tories doing similar in the opposite direction. And that'll be a disaster.
Our politicians aren't very good, on the whole they're very out of touch. Unfortunately most younger party members and activists are too and they are our future politicians. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 21:31 - Oct 11 with 1161 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 2024 General Election on 21:21 - Oct 11 by Gwyn737 |
I like the NHS stuff too.
As well as reform there’s a serious policy to shrink waiting lists as opposed to the Tory policy of blaming immigrants. |
It can be both.
Expanding the population by nearly 5m in the last ten years will add pressure to any Government services. Most migrants tend to be young, fit and generally end up working quite quickly, but at least initially it's not a cheap demographic to service. Translation costs alone are often absurdly high.
There's not really much getting away from the reality however that some gobsmackingly stupid decisions made during the pandemic, decisions made while, let's be honest, HM's Oppositions demanded even tougher measures, have piled extreme pressures onto the NHS. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of NHS Trust senior leadership are expecting many people on waiting lists to die before ever being seen. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 2024 General Election on 21:32 - Oct 11 with 1160 views | Scotia |
| The 2024 General Election on 21:21 - Oct 11 by Gwyn737 |
I like the NHS stuff too.
As well as reform there’s a serious policy to shrink waiting lists as opposed to the Tory policy of blaming immigrants. |
I do too.
I just hope that if Starmer becomes PM he can have more influence on the Senedd. Labour and Welsh Labour seem to be drifting apart, Welsh Labour seem to have more in common with Plaid at the moment. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 21:38 - Oct 11 with 1154 views | Gwyn737 |
| The 2024 General Election on 21:31 - Oct 11 by Dr_Winston |
It can be both.
Expanding the population by nearly 5m in the last ten years will add pressure to any Government services. Most migrants tend to be young, fit and generally end up working quite quickly, but at least initially it's not a cheap demographic to service. Translation costs alone are often absurdly high.
There's not really much getting away from the reality however that some gobsmackingly stupid decisions made during the pandemic, decisions made while, let's be honest, HM's Oppositions demanded even tougher measures, have piled extreme pressures onto the NHS. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of NHS Trust senior leadership are expecting many people on waiting lists to die before ever being seen. |
Re your last paragraph; I also like Labour looking at reclaiming some of the money ripped off by Covid profiteers.
It’s just a shame we have to wait another year for a general election. Tories don’t really have any kind of record to fight with so it’s mud slinging and culture wars for the next 12 months. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 21:39 - Oct 11 with 1146 views | Gwyn737 |
| The 2024 General Election on 21:25 - Oct 11 by Scotia |
It could happen.
Labour lurched to the left after Brown and that was a disaster, I can see the Tories doing similar in the opposite direction. And that'll be a disaster.
Our politicians aren't very good, on the whole they're very out of touch. Unfortunately most younger party members and activists are too and they are our future politicians. |
I hadn’t though of that comparison - it’s a very good point. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 21:49 - Oct 11 with 1127 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 2024 General Election on 21:38 - Oct 11 by Gwyn737 |
Re your last paragraph; I also like Labour looking at reclaiming some of the money ripped off by Covid profiteers.
It’s just a shame we have to wait another year for a general election. Tories don’t really have any kind of record to fight with so it’s mud slinging and culture wars for the next 12 months. |
That's one of the few bum notes from the conference from me. I don't doubt that a lot of money was wasted on contracts, money that should probably be reclaimed, but a hell of a lot of money was ripped off by the general public making fraudulent claims for benefits and business support, claims that they seem to want to blame Sunak directly for.
If the Govt had insisted on the proper checks being carried out on all claims HMRC and DWP would probably still be working their way through a lot of them now and they'd have been absolutely roasted over it. Instead a lot of stuff was just waved through to make sure people were paid on time. Very much a case of damned if they do, damned if they don't. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 2024 General Election on 22:07 - Oct 11 with 1085 views | trampie |
Did Starmer really say that Israel does have the right to cut power and water to Gaza 
Starmer the new Tony Blair. | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 22:58 - Oct 11 with 1079 views | Boundy |
| The 2024 General Election on 22:04 - Oct 10 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
At this point I feel it’s all so pointless I’ll probably end up just drawing a giant vagina on my ballot paper or something. |
That's exactly what they all are anyway so way not | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 2024 General Election on 10:52 - Oct 12 with 982 views | trampie |
| The 2024 General Election on 22:07 - Oct 11 by trampie |
Did Starmer really say that Israel does have the right to cut power and water to Gaza
Starmer the new Tony Blair. |
Article 33 of the Geneva Convention, Starmer is ok in breaking that, he might be Prime Minister soon, powerful people rarely get done like Tony Blair over Iraq, if our Government activity give help to people that break the Geneva Convention will they be guilty of war crimes ? | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 06:38 - Oct 13 with 919 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 2024 General Election on 10:52 - Oct 12 by trampie |
Article 33 of the Geneva Convention, Starmer is ok in breaking that, he might be Prime Minister soon, powerful people rarely get done like Tony Blair over Iraq, if our Government activity give help to people that break the Geneva Convention will they be guilty of war crimes ? |
Don't think hamas have ever signed the Geneva convention let alone said they will protect civilians. | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 09:06 - Oct 13 with 862 views | trampie |
| The 2024 General Election on 06:38 - Oct 13 by felixstowe_jack |
Don't think hamas have ever signed the Geneva convention let alone said they will protect civilians. |
I would imagine Israel are signed up not that it seems to mean anything to their Government. | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 13:45 - Oct 13 with 837 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Back to the OP.
Global debt has trebled since 2008, the UK has followed that trend.
Interest rates increases, that drive up debt servicing costs, are relatively recent with the full effects yet to be seen. So there's danger lurking in commercial property, corporate debt, private equity etc. |  |
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