| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird 07:19 - Apr 20 with 38017 views | numptydumpty |
People are quoting this as fact prior to last night's game
Where's the evidence please ??? [Post edited 20 Apr 2023 7:20]
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 11:30 - Apr 21 with 2693 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
After what happened at the end of the Warburton tenure, the end of the Beale tenure, throughout the Critchley tenure and so far through Ainsworth's spell, I'm amazed anyone believes that there AREN'T severe social and / or relationship issues within the club and squad.
Football teams don't just completely fold like they have for four different managers - to the extent that they consistently have for 18 months - because they're a little jaded or the formation is wrong. There absolutely have to be rotten and seismic factions within the club that are the root cause of all this.
I wonder if Beale was ultimately shocked by just how bad it was / is when he got here and hence couldn't wait to get out. Probably saw it all coming. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 11:32]
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 11:45 - Apr 21 with 2591 views | Hayesender |
Apparently Mark Warburton had a little dig at interference from LF on talksport this morning. Anyone hear or confirm this? |  |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 11:49 - Apr 21 with 2540 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 11:30 - Apr 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
After what happened at the end of the Warburton tenure, the end of the Beale tenure, throughout the Critchley tenure and so far through Ainsworth's spell, I'm amazed anyone believes that there AREN'T severe social and / or relationship issues within the club and squad.
Football teams don't just completely fold like they have for four different managers - to the extent that they consistently have for 18 months - because they're a little jaded or the formation is wrong. There absolutely have to be rotten and seismic factions within the club that are the root cause of all this.
I wonder if Beale was ultimately shocked by just how bad it was / is when he got here and hence couldn't wait to get out. Probably saw it all coming. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 11:32]
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I genuinely believed the squad was United but out of confidence.
As others have said, leaving Laird and Willock out pretty much fcks that theory off. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 12:04]
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 11:57 - Apr 21 with 2489 views | stantheman10 |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 17:56 - Apr 20 by 1JD |
The thing is that all of that is irrelevant if you are not getting results or performances. It sounds good in theory. But the big question is does removing individuals who don’t meet your work rate standards, benefit the side overall? In other words, do the pros outweigh the cons, of implementing this decision?
The evidence suggests not. The results and performances are not backing up Ainsworths methods and critical decisions. The reason is simple, when you start take your better individuals out, even though they don’t run as hard, you remove their quality, and you make the side inferior, not stronger. You might run harder, but running harder does not win games.
It’s why Chris Martin is playing, and Chris Willock is not. It’s why Albert gets the nod, over better, younger players.
Warnock understood the need for balance. Something Ainsworth does not understand at all as his belief is heavily geared towards work rate over talent.
It’s exactly why Warnock accommodated the magic of Tarrabt. Because he was a match winner. That’s the difference between Warnock - a top manager, and Ainsworth- a manager who is out of his depth at this level, and far too stuck in his ways and ideals. [Post edited 20 Apr 2023 17:58]
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We were losing with Willock in the side and Willock isn't winning games on his own like Taraabt did so there's no comparison.
Ainsworth is obviously trying to get rid of the players who are not committed to the cause as whatever ability they've got they are no good for a team.
Taraabt the following season in the Premier league only played 24 games because we were struggling. |  | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:06 - Apr 21 with 2432 views | stantheman10 |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 19:28 - Apr 20 by 1JD |
He’s on record many times for his ideals at Wycombe and in his interviews with us so I don’t think there is any kind of debate as to why he is doing it, that’s a bit of given for me. I’m simply debating that it’s not the right call. We were 8 points clear and not in a relegation scrap. Of course it’s not sodding working! |
We were only 8 points clear because of the points Beale had accrued not the points Critchley had gained playing the same players as Beale so it's obvious it's down to the players and that's why GA is trying to get rid of the shirkers | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:09 - Apr 21 with 2409 views | Esgaroth |
Why people rate Johansen absolutely baffles me. He's been utter garbage this season when he isn't injured from chipping a nail 💅
Laird won't be here next term so isn't willing to put his body on the line for us, you can tell that the way he sh*ts out of tackles.
Willock still isn't over his hammy injury so also won't go the extra yard as he will be looking to get out at the first opportunity.
So Gareth has every right to exclude them imho. It's going to be a battle over the next 3 games and he can't have troops who aren't willing to go the extra yard I suppose. |  |
| Been here since 1984. Now THAT is what you call punishment |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:16 - Apr 21 with 2319 views | stantheman10 |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 23:32 - Apr 20 by ozexile |
I just find it Bizarre. Get your best players on the field especially in our predicament. |
You obviously haven't played much team football. You can have the best player in the world but if he isn't doing it and at the same time pissing off his team mates then you don't pick them. Simple | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:20 - Apr 21 with 2287 views | calHoop |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 17:56 - Apr 20 by 1JD |
The thing is that all of that is irrelevant if you are not getting results or performances. It sounds good in theory. But the big question is does removing individuals who don’t meet your work rate standards, benefit the side overall? In other words, do the pros outweigh the cons, of implementing this decision?
The evidence suggests not. The results and performances are not backing up Ainsworths methods and critical decisions. The reason is simple, when you start take your better individuals out, even though they don’t run as hard, you remove their quality, and you make the side inferior, not stronger. You might run harder, but running harder does not win games.
It’s why Chris Martin is playing, and Chris Willock is not. It’s why Albert gets the nod, over better, younger players.
Warnock understood the need for balance. Something Ainsworth does not understand at all as his belief is heavily geared towards work rate over talent.
It’s exactly why Warnock accommodated the magic of Tarrabt. Because he was a match winner. That’s the difference between Warnock - a top manager, and Ainsworth- a manager who is out of his depth at this level, and far too stuck in his ways and ideals. [Post edited 20 Apr 2023 17:58]
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I agree with a lot of this, but Warnock still had a lot of generals. Hill, Gorkks, Derry, Faurlin, Helguson. It was a brilliantly assembled group. This lot are absolutely rudderless. When I see them all running around to high five each other because someone has made a very basic challenge, it's a little grating. I would give GA the summer to rebuild.
Since Ollie part 2 we've been a team that's managed to go on some quite incredible losing runs. No wins in 8,9,10 etc, etc. Teams don't generally do this, it indicates a lack of leadership and accountability. We need such a reset it's untrue. Ollie in 2001 re built with Birch, Shittu, Rowlands, Ainsworth, Furlong, Gallen, Cook etc,etc. Big personalities. We need to do that again, and stop trying to find ex premier league academy graduates who are soft as shit. | | | |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:21 - Apr 21 with 2271 views | QPROslo |
Spreading rumours like this isn't helping our struggle to get out of the bottom 3 is it. More likely to do the opposite. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:32 - Apr 21 with 2183 views | terryb |
Please could anybody who knows answer my questions about a possible move to Glasgow for Willock:-
1) Is it correct that Willock is out of contract this June, but we have an option to extend this for a further season?
If this is true-
2) If we didn't take the option, could he sign for anyone for free as being ooc?
3) If we take the option, what fee could be received for transferring his services?
4) Would a fee be more than the wages guarenteed to Willock in an extension?
I think my last question is important, as the club couldn't afford to renew if it meant keeping his services for no reward (monetary or playing wise). | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:36 - Apr 21 with 2147 views | QPR_Jim |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 10:42 - Apr 21 by CamberleyR |
Sorry to keep labouring the point but the evidence is before our own eyes that fatso mole face flogged Willock into the ground. After missing three games after playing the opening home game, he played all but 69 minutes of the next seven games playing an average of 80 minutes per game and then 56 in the next at Bramall Lane before the inevitable. |
It all depends on what happens next, if (big if) he reunites with Beale and is suddenly fine then there's a strong amount of evidence he's been having us on.
We'll have to see what happens but either way he doesn't seem capable of helping the club at the moment. |  | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:39 - Apr 21 with 2133 views | stantheman10 |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:36 - Apr 21 by QPR_Jim |
It all depends on what happens next, if (big if) he reunites with Beale and is suddenly fine then there's a strong amount of evidence he's been having us on.
We'll have to see what happens but either way he doesn't seem capable of helping the club at the moment. |
Scottish football isn't a great gauge as to whether a player has been having us over! | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:46 - Apr 21 with 2035 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:09 - Apr 21 by Esgaroth |
Why people rate Johansen absolutely baffles me. He's been utter garbage this season when he isn't injured from chipping a nail 💅
Laird won't be here next term so isn't willing to put his body on the line for us, you can tell that the way he sh*ts out of tackles.
Willock still isn't over his hammy injury so also won't go the extra yard as he will be looking to get out at the first opportunity.
So Gareth has every right to exclude them imho. It's going to be a battle over the next 3 games and he can't have troops who aren't willing to go the extra yard I suppose. |
I honestly think the overreaction to Isaac Hayden's poor tackle on Aaron Drewe on Wednesday was pretty telling. I think we've got so used to uncommitted showings, performances, tackles - the lot - that seeing someone get stuck in to a risky challenge appalled a lot of us.
I'm not advocating dirtiness or whatever but that's the sort of commitment we could do with in our team. Field and probably Dykes are the only players willing to make them. Derry, Bircham, Dom Ball go in for that Hayden challenge a hundred times out of a hundred. Amos, Dozzell, Johansen et al zero times out of a hundred right now. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:49 - Apr 21 with 1988 views | TK1 |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 11:22 - Apr 21 by Northernr |
This group of players has been losing consistently for a year and a half and four managers.
The manager isn't your issue. |
I read this a lot. And yes, it's true, some clubs and groups of players are a mess. We look like that now. QPR's always been a mad club upstairs.
But it's never insurmountable, unless you're Derby or Bury and facing an existential crisis. And it's ALWAYS about getting the right manager at the right time. We have kind of doom-talked us into this frame of mind whereby sticking up pictures of Les Ferdinand and the CEO with clown faces will fix it. That it's upstairs to blame alone and that huge, fundamental structual change to the club will be the only way to fix it.
It's about the manager at every club.
Look at other clubs. Look at Southhampton, well run club who've got the wrong manager twice in a row. Lots of other similar examples. Look at our own history. Only being very lucky by picking the right manager fixes a club.
Let's look back to 2009-10. QPR had four managers that season, three the season before. Seven in a year! Magiliton, himself a new manager in the summer, got a tune from the squad (like Beale) but then nutted his best player. We had Paul Hart and Mick Harford follow. The football (with a very tidy squad) was revolting. We were heading down after Christmas, for sure.
The club was insanely badly run. Worse than now. Briatore started the season chairman, for God's sake. Paladini. Ecclestone...some of the very worst people to run the club, hated the fans, hated the club. No idea. We'd had years of appalling runs of form and off-field shenanigans.
Then they appointed Warnock, almost by accident. It was around the same time we appointed Ainsworth this season, actually a few weeks later. Not a hugely popular choice with fans and he didn't immediately stem the flow of points. But he worked out in time how to get those three or four difficult wins with the group. Exactly what GA has not done. This current group has lots in common with that group.
We know what happened the next season on the pitch. But the club was still crazy off the field. That had not changed. Nobody cared until Paladini nearly derailed the promotion.
So yeah, we can say - cursed meadow, bad juju with the group, burn the sage. All that. But really, we just got the wrong manager more than once this season.
The manager is 100% the issue. Always is. Always has been. Always will be, in every era. QPR has always been a basket case club, since the 1970s. Always! It's a madhouse, whoever is running it. The right manger pulls it together and makes it sing. A bad one gets sacked. A really bad pair in succession get you relegated. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:50 - Apr 21 with 1984 views | sparkey |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:46 - Apr 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
I honestly think the overreaction to Isaac Hayden's poor tackle on Aaron Drewe on Wednesday was pretty telling. I think we've got so used to uncommitted showings, performances, tackles - the lot - that seeing someone get stuck in to a risky challenge appalled a lot of us.
I'm not advocating dirtiness or whatever but that's the sort of commitment we could do with in our team. Field and probably Dykes are the only players willing to make them. Derry, Bircham, Dom Ball go in for that Hayden challenge a hundred times out of a hundred. Amos, Dozzell, Johansen et al zero times out of a hundred right now. |
Agree, maybe except Amos who I think puts in 100% every time he's on the pitch. Shame he's always injured, his introduction sparked life in the middle in my opinion & he was nearly rewarded with simply showing energy. Far more effective than Dozzell and Stef so wouldn't put him in the same sentance imo. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:51 - Apr 21 with 1961 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 11:57 - Apr 21 by stantheman10 |
We were losing with Willock in the side and Willock isn't winning games on his own like Taraabt did so there's no comparison.
Ainsworth is obviously trying to get rid of the players who are not committed to the cause as whatever ability they've got they are no good for a team.
Taraabt the following season in the Premier league only played 24 games because we were struggling. |
Not in the same way he wasn't/isn't, but if you look at our results over the last 2 years I think you'll see just how vital Willock was to the successes we did have. |  |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:52 - Apr 21 with 1959 views | Northernr |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:50 - Apr 21 by sparkey |
Agree, maybe except Amos who I think puts in 100% every time he's on the pitch. Shame he's always injured, his introduction sparked life in the middle in my opinion & he was nearly rewarded with simply showing energy. Far more effective than Dozzell and Stef so wouldn't put him in the same sentance imo. |
Amos runs up to and beyond the strikers. He's the only midfielder we've got who does. It's why he scores on occasions, while Dozzell has fewer goals than Dieng. |  | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:52 - Apr 21 with 1951 views | ozexile |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:16 - Apr 21 by stantheman10 |
You obviously haven't played much team football. You can have the best player in the world but if he isn't doing it and at the same time pissing off his team mates then you don't pick them. Simple |
No you're right, I'll consider myself scolded. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:55 - Apr 21 with 1927 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:50 - Apr 21 by sparkey |
Agree, maybe except Amos who I think puts in 100% every time he's on the pitch. Shame he's always injured, his introduction sparked life in the middle in my opinion & he was nearly rewarded with simply showing energy. Far more effective than Dozzell and Stef so wouldn't put him in the same sentance imo. |
Unfair of me to lump him in with the other two, you're right. We've been so much better with him on the pitch. I just meant he's not the type of midfielder to go and win or challenge for that ball, not that he doesn't commit. The other two just wouldn't put their body in there where it might hurt. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 12:56]
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:59 - Apr 21 with 1870 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 11:22 - Apr 21 by Northernr |
This group of players has been losing consistently for a year and a half and four managers.
The manager isn't your issue. |
100% THIS |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:59 - Apr 21 with 1870 views | gazza1 |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:52 - Apr 21 by Northernr |
Amos runs up to and beyond the strikers. He's the only midfielder we've got who does. It's why he scores on occasions, while Dozzell has fewer goals than Dieng. |
Neither are good enough for a decent promotion chasing team in the Championship.& when their contracts are up for renewal we should say thanks and goodbye......
I said on another thread a few days ago that there are massive issues within the football side of the club and we would not know about it - 'inner workings' of the club that are kept close to the chest. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:00 - Apr 21 with 1865 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:20 - Apr 21 by calHoop |
I agree with a lot of this, but Warnock still had a lot of generals. Hill, Gorkks, Derry, Faurlin, Helguson. It was a brilliantly assembled group. This lot are absolutely rudderless. When I see them all running around to high five each other because someone has made a very basic challenge, it's a little grating. I would give GA the summer to rebuild.
Since Ollie part 2 we've been a team that's managed to go on some quite incredible losing runs. No wins in 8,9,10 etc, etc. Teams don't generally do this, it indicates a lack of leadership and accountability. We need such a reset it's untrue. Ollie in 2001 re built with Birch, Shittu, Rowlands, Ainsworth, Furlong, Gallen, Cook etc,etc. Big personalities. We need to do that again, and stop trying to find ex premier league academy graduates who are soft as shit. |
'brilliantly assembled group'
Come on. Give Warnock all the credit you want, but he came in to find a disparate group randomly signed in a sort of low rent way that Boehly has gone about things and in the rubble were a few gems that he added Hill and Derry too. Brilliant management. But nothing was 'brilliantly assembled'. It was haphazard nonsense with too much money thrown at some very average players and luckily a few of them, almost by the law of averages, turned out to be quite decent. We spent £1m on Rob Hulse. That was the sort of money we could chuck about then. | |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:00 - Apr 21 with 1856 views | sparkey |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:55 - Apr 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Unfair of me to lump him in with the other two, you're right. We've been so much better with him on the pitch. I just meant he's not the type of midfielder to go and win or challenge for that ball, not that he doesn't commit. The other two just wouldn't put their body in there where it might hurt. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 12:56]
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I know what you meant & I agree. We need the Dominator back really | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:03 - Apr 21 with 1816 views | E15Hoop |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:55 - Apr 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Unfair of me to lump him in with the other two, you're right. We've been so much better with him on the pitch. I just meant he's not the type of midfielder to go and win or challenge for that ball, not that he doesn't commit. The other two just wouldn't put their body in there where it might hurt. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 12:56]
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I don't agree with that sentence either, PS. I've seen Amos go and proactively try and win challenges every time he's been fit enough to play. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:07 - Apr 21 with 1781 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:49 - Apr 21 by TK1 |
I read this a lot. And yes, it's true, some clubs and groups of players are a mess. We look like that now. QPR's always been a mad club upstairs.
But it's never insurmountable, unless you're Derby or Bury and facing an existential crisis. And it's ALWAYS about getting the right manager at the right time. We have kind of doom-talked us into this frame of mind whereby sticking up pictures of Les Ferdinand and the CEO with clown faces will fix it. That it's upstairs to blame alone and that huge, fundamental structual change to the club will be the only way to fix it.
It's about the manager at every club.
Look at other clubs. Look at Southhampton, well run club who've got the wrong manager twice in a row. Lots of other similar examples. Look at our own history. Only being very lucky by picking the right manager fixes a club.
Let's look back to 2009-10. QPR had four managers that season, three the season before. Seven in a year! Magiliton, himself a new manager in the summer, got a tune from the squad (like Beale) but then nutted his best player. We had Paul Hart and Mick Harford follow. The football (with a very tidy squad) was revolting. We were heading down after Christmas, for sure.
The club was insanely badly run. Worse than now. Briatore started the season chairman, for God's sake. Paladini. Ecclestone...some of the very worst people to run the club, hated the fans, hated the club. No idea. We'd had years of appalling runs of form and off-field shenanigans.
Then they appointed Warnock, almost by accident. It was around the same time we appointed Ainsworth this season, actually a few weeks later. Not a hugely popular choice with fans and he didn't immediately stem the flow of points. But he worked out in time how to get those three or four difficult wins with the group. Exactly what GA has not done. This current group has lots in common with that group.
We know what happened the next season on the pitch. But the club was still crazy off the field. That had not changed. Nobody cared until Paladini nearly derailed the promotion.
So yeah, we can say - cursed meadow, bad juju with the group, burn the sage. All that. But really, we just got the wrong manager more than once this season.
The manager is 100% the issue. Always is. Always has been. Always will be, in every era. QPR has always been a basket case club, since the 1970s. Always! It's a madhouse, whoever is running it. The right manger pulls it together and makes it sing. A bad one gets sacked. A really bad pair in succession get you relegated. |
I see where you're coming from but I don't agree with you entirely.
To compete at the top of divisions (or even in the middle it turns out) you need everyone pulling in the same direction and fully committed to achieving a goal before you can even think about talent. The first thing Warnock did was 'sort the dressing room out' with Hill and Derry. And he got completely slaughtered for signing both before the season started.
If it's as toxic at the club as is being suggested any manager is on a hiding for nothing until it's sorted. I think we have a miniature version of the Hughes team going on here where players just don't care about the club.
By your logic, the right manager could have come in at Christmas with that Bosingwa team, galvanised them and kept them up. I don't believe there's a mortal alive that could have done that. And if there were they should write a sacred scripture about him and have a national bank holiday for eternity for Resurrection Saturday - the miracle of avoiding relegation. | | | |
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