| Crying out for Warburton 15:02 - Feb 27 with 12362 views | WestbourneR |
In the annals of bad decisions, removing Warbs now looks like the extraordinarily stupid decision it looked at the time.
A few things to think about
- Our 'collapse' last season now looks like a dream compared to our current freefall.
- He was ostensibly sacked because he didn't play youth teamers - but he did when they were GOOD. He immediately made more out of BOS and Manning, he played Chair and of course Eze. He even persevered with Kakay and bombed out Todd Kane for the cause. The players he didn't play weren't, and almost certainly never will be, good enough. Sinclair Armstrong aside Beale didn't play any more of them than Warbs either.
- The club was well run, on a budget, with respect and good attitude.
- I've never been anti Ferdinand but to me it's now clear he sacked Warbs because he felt threatened and didn't like that Warbs was his own man. It was ego. An ego clash. And for me, that is unforgivable.
- If we'd kept Warbs and the STABILITY we've all craved for so long we'd be in so much better shape now. I guarantee it.
To think we sacked MW for being in the playoffs most the season now seems to STUPID it is laughable.
A huge mistake that may we see us relegated.
And yeah I'm afraid it's on Les.
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| Crying out for Warburton on 19:53 - Feb 27 with 2762 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Crying out for Warburton on 18:59 - Feb 27 by davman |
Yes it did, but that particularly January, our footballing hierarchy did not like hearing the truth - the Academy is full of youngsters not good enough for the first team. Warbs told them that, they didn't like it so started to de-stabilise the first team. Warbs, you cheeky bugger - no new contract for you and those players you want can go swing for a new contract.
We'll replace Barbet with a younger, sicker version who will play around a third of the games Barbet did. Ball can f-off; we'll replace him with a 19 year old show pony from Villa with no end product. Moses - can play left back OR right back - interesting, but NO, Nico is good enough and he will be a first teamer soon - we know what we're doing throwing contracts around.
The new man will come in and he'll play our kids because he will see we were right all along and not you, Warbs.
Yep, its Hindsight, yep, I need to calm down and could do with a break from QPR, but it is a shambles. The Academy costs millions and produces NOTHING. I just wish that there had been a sensible conversation about was Warbs right or were Les and his staff right. Instead of keeping faith with those you have entrusted the future of the club to, take a look - their product is garbage. Warbs was spot on and yet he was the one to go.
Insanity whatever way you look at it.
Does anyone think that our Academy is anything but a money pit? |
This post is total speculation. |  | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 20:10 - Feb 27 with 2693 views | Faurlinho |
Nail on head. |  | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 22:18 - Feb 27 with 2525 views | davman |
| Crying out for Warburton on 19:53 - Feb 27 by Ned_Kennedys |
This post is total speculation. |
Yep and seeing as I suspect that 99% of people on here are not in the club's employ or privvy to our erstwhile leaders, almost every single post, ironically including your one is "pure speculation".
So, your point is what, exactly? |  |
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| Crying out for Warburton on 22:59 - Feb 27 with 2464 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Crying out for Warburton on 19:53 - Feb 27 by Ned_Kennedys |
This post is total speculation. |
That as it maybe, but it doesn't ring too hollow. [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 23:09]
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| Crying out for Warburton on 10:41 - Feb 28 with 2230 views | OakR |
I wanted Warburton to stay and was disappointed when he left, but I can't agree with the original post.
The board scouted Beale, and whatever you think of him now, a few months in most were saying what a great signing he was, and also how we had upgraded certain positions. We were playing well and it was mostly all positive. Had he not left, we would be in a different situation. You can argue about the break clause (which is valid), but you'd have thought first job he would have stayed at least a year.
So the decision now looks bad, but they decided they wanted to change the way we did things and they did execute that well I think.
There is no doubt we have fallen behind others, that is obvious to see. That said, there are bigger clubs than us in L1, and we still have one of the lower budgets in this league.
We lost it after Beale left for a variety of reasons. | |
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| Crying out for Warburton on 10:58 - Feb 28 with 2187 views | daveB |
| Crying out for Warburton on 18:59 - Feb 27 by davman |
Yes it did, but that particularly January, our footballing hierarchy did not like hearing the truth - the Academy is full of youngsters not good enough for the first team. Warbs told them that, they didn't like it so started to de-stabilise the first team. Warbs, you cheeky bugger - no new contract for you and those players you want can go swing for a new contract.
We'll replace Barbet with a younger, sicker version who will play around a third of the games Barbet did. Ball can f-off; we'll replace him with a 19 year old show pony from Villa with no end product. Moses - can play left back OR right back - interesting, but NO, Nico is good enough and he will be a first teamer soon - we know what we're doing throwing contracts around.
The new man will come in and he'll play our kids because he will see we were right all along and not you, Warbs.
Yep, its Hindsight, yep, I need to calm down and could do with a break from QPR, but it is a shambles. The Academy costs millions and produces NOTHING. I just wish that there had been a sensible conversation about was Warbs right or were Les and his staff right. Instead of keeping faith with those you have entrusted the future of the club to, take a look - their product is garbage. Warbs was spot on and yet he was the one to go.
Insanity whatever way you look at it.
Does anyone think that our Academy is anything but a money pit? |
They did offer Moses a new deal but he turned it down and went to Turkey.
I'd have kept Barbet but at his age with no sell on potential I can see why they let him go and replaced him with younger, when he's been fit Clarke Salter has been pretty good at centre half, shouldn't be forgotten that barbet was either injured or suspended for most of his first season at QPR as well.
Also Ball hardly played last season under Warburton so don't think you can blame Les or the club for that one |  | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 11:19 - Feb 28 with 2155 views | TK1 |
| Crying out for Warburton on 22:18 - Feb 27 by davman |
Yep and seeing as I suspect that 99% of people on here are not in the club's employ or privvy to our erstwhile leaders, almost every single post, ironically including your one is "pure speculation".
So, your point is what, exactly? |
One fact to add, then: Dominic Ball has started three games for Ipswich in L1 this season, none of them in central midfield.
I'm all for beating the club over its head today, but not renewing Dom Ball's contract last season seems a stretch. He'd stayed a year too long as it was. | | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 11:26 - Feb 28 with 2136 views | Antti_Heinola |
Fact is: we are not sustainable as a Champ club.
Get ready for the slide.
We're Rotherham. |  |
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| Crying out for Warburton on 11:46 - Feb 28 with 2054 views | johnhoop |
| Crying out for Warburton on 11:26 - Feb 28 by Antti_Heinola |
Fact is: we are not sustainable as a Champ club.
Get ready for the slide.
We're Rotherham. |
If only. | | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 11:47 - Feb 28 with 2046 views | CamberleyR |
| Crying out for Warburton on 10:58 - Feb 28 by daveB |
They did offer Moses a new deal but he turned it down and went to Turkey.
I'd have kept Barbet but at his age with no sell on potential I can see why they let him go and replaced him with younger, when he's been fit Clarke Salter has been pretty good at centre half, shouldn't be forgotten that barbet was either injured or suspended for most of his first season at QPR as well.
Also Ball hardly played last season under Warburton so don't think you can blame Les or the club for that one |
"Shouldn't be forgotten that barbet was either injured or suspended for most of his first season at QPR as well"
Despite missing three months of the season, he still managed 29 games, a figure Glass-Salter could only dream of. |  |
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| Crying out for Warburton on 21:52 - Feb 28 with 1848 views | OldPedro |
| Crying out for Warburton on 11:19 - Feb 28 by TK1 |
One fact to add, then: Dominic Ball has started three games for Ipswich in L1 this season, none of them in central midfield.
I'm all for beating the club over its head today, but not renewing Dom Ball's contract last season seems a stretch. He'd stayed a year too long as it was. |
Hasn't Ball been injured for most of his time at Ipswich? |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Crying out for Warburton on 21:57 - Feb 28 with 1826 views | essextaxiboy |
| Crying out for Warburton on 11:26 - Feb 28 by Antti_Heinola |
Fact is: we are not sustainable as a Champ club.
Get ready for the slide.
We're Rotherham. |
You may be right but the question still remains . What are Luton and Millwall doing that makes them sustainable championship clubs operating under the same rules ? |  | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 22:15 - Feb 28 with 1749 views | davman |
| Crying out for Warburton on 21:52 - Feb 28 by OldPedro |
Hasn't Ball been injured for most of his time at Ipswich? |
Yes he has, but apparently facts don't count here; only speculation.
Was Dom Ball the answer? Hell no, but I'd much prefer him in our midfield than Timmy or Andre. And he gives an option at full back, which we are a little light on at the moment... | |
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| Crying out for Warburton on 22:16 - Feb 28 with 1745 views | daveB |
| Crying out for Warburton on 21:57 - Feb 28 by essextaxiboy |
You may be right but the question still remains . What are Luton and Millwall doing that makes them sustainable championship clubs operating under the same rules ? |
Luton have sold a few players for decent money | | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 22:22 - Feb 28 with 1730 views | numptydumpty |
Unfortunately am another one who said at time stick with Warburton for the very long term.
Les and Co chose not to and got their pants pulled down by second hand car salesman patter.
And then chose a super nerd to steady the ship.
Think Les was on the Carabao cup coverage to angle for some kind of role at next year's Premier league champions Newcastle. Think he learnt that one of that Beale Boil.
But yes we told Mr Warburton he was not wanted so all the I told you so, pretty irrelevant.
We have to deal with where we are and hope Ainsworth and his team prove their worth.. [Post edited 28 Feb 2023 22:23]
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| Crying out for Warburton on 06:08 - Mar 1 with 1617 views | bongo_king |
Good thread with interesting views.
Have said before, the big wildcard in all of this was Beale's "loyalty". I was also very sceptical on Warbs being let go. But go back to September and we all agreed PBBC looked like a good appointment. It was reasonable to expect him to stay at least a year in his first job before moving on. But the hierarchy should have been aware of his sounding out of other clubs, and that surely was the time for them to act (redo the contract) if they wanted to stick with him. This failure coupled with the subsequent knee jerk 3.5 year NC contract were the big errors IMO. Plus of course the long discussed "manager wants manager gets" thing which itself is an indirect result of the U23's producing nothing.
I tend to agree with the view that Warbs would make a good DoF for us - would suspect the combination of financial background, footballing nous and his interest in player scouting/development would make him a great fit. Whether he'd ever come back after how he was treated is a different issue... | | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 07:30 - Mar 1 with 1535 views | PunteR |
| Crying out for Warburton on 06:08 - Mar 1 by bongo_king |
Good thread with interesting views.
Have said before, the big wildcard in all of this was Beale's "loyalty". I was also very sceptical on Warbs being let go. But go back to September and we all agreed PBBC looked like a good appointment. It was reasonable to expect him to stay at least a year in his first job before moving on. But the hierarchy should have been aware of his sounding out of other clubs, and that surely was the time for them to act (redo the contract) if they wanted to stick with him. This failure coupled with the subsequent knee jerk 3.5 year NC contract were the big errors IMO. Plus of course the long discussed "manager wants manager gets" thing which itself is an indirect result of the U23's producing nothing.
I tend to agree with the view that Warbs would make a good DoF for us - would suspect the combination of financial background, footballing nous and his interest in player scouting/development would make him a great fit. Whether he'd ever come back after how he was treated is a different issue... |
Really can't see him coming back as a DoF. Not now anyway. I think he was treated fairly poorly I remember an interview when someone asked him about his contract and his reply was you better ask the board as they haven't spoke to him about it. That was last season and before the collapse. I got the impression then something wasn't quite right then.
These sorts of things whether you think Warburton should have gone or not has a knock on effect towards the next manager. Starts putting doubt in people's minds. Maybe Beale was completely clueless as to what went on the previous months but I doubt it. Pure conjecture on my part obviously. Regardless, Beale obviously didnt take the club seriously and was pimping himself out early doors before he got the G Rangers job. |  |
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| Crying out for Warburton on 08:01 - Mar 1 with 1500 views | PlanetHonneywood |
Half of me thinks this muck-raking is futile. The other half, that it's further evidence of amateurism that's running this club.
The oft said: if Warbs is the man you need, why get rid of him quote disappeared when Beale had us top, playing well and if we are all totally honest, Warbs had been forgotten about at that stage. Personally, I thought QPR had managed good back-to-back managerial appointments for the first time in 30 years, thought they'd had a blinder in Beale.
What's really at the hub of the issue(s) who's running this shit-show? Seems to me looking in from afar, there are too many at the helm and what we really had last tear, was a power struggle: Warbs v. Les and his retinue of historically underperforming coaches. For which Hoos/owners picked a side and well, look where its taken us.
If Les is the font of institutional football knowledge at QPR, and the hinge between the suits and tracksuits, then it's not yielded. Well I assume so, as I don't know what his brief is. His appointment was always odd: what was the job spec; what were/are his performance targets; and who else was considered because for the money he's on, I'm reasonably sure there were other more proven and suitable candidates that could and maybe should have been considered.
A long overdue root and branch review of everything at QPR is needed. The latest accounts; league position; player development; injury management; and even matchday catering are all chronically poor. It's happened on Les' watch, I suggest any such review starts there.
Whatever transpires: QPR needs a whole lot of 'smarts' imbued into the operation. Fact is, it's been an embarrassingly dumb place since August 2011. [Post edited 1 Mar 2023 9:09]
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| Crying out for Warburton on 08:44 - Mar 1 with 1437 views | nix |
| Crying out for Warburton on 07:30 - Mar 1 by PunteR |
Really can't see him coming back as a DoF. Not now anyway. I think he was treated fairly poorly I remember an interview when someone asked him about his contract and his reply was you better ask the board as they haven't spoke to him about it. That was last season and before the collapse. I got the impression then something wasn't quite right then.
These sorts of things whether you think Warburton should have gone or not has a knock on effect towards the next manager. Starts putting doubt in people's minds. Maybe Beale was completely clueless as to what went on the previous months but I doubt it. Pure conjecture on my part obviously. Regardless, Beale obviously didnt take the club seriously and was pimping himself out early doors before he got the G Rangers job. |
I don't think we can blame the club for the Beale fiasco. It absolutely was a decent appointment and seemed a step forward building on our previous managers. Having a young manager who was used to developing players but also had experience working at Premiership level seemed a really good move. But how often does a young manager in their first appointment leave after a few months, having been given everything they've asked for? It may happen but I can't remember it.
Where we may have made mistakes is in giving him everything he wanted in terms of keeping onto all three of Seny, Chair and Willock, while also spending a lot on wages for Paal, Tim, JCS, Balogun, Roberts etc. Let's face it we're unlikely to have spent that much on all of those players if we'd had a different manager.
Personally I would have given Warbs another season, if only for the continuity. But given they thought they would have a new young manager and we'd finished the last season so badly, I can see the thinking behind the decision. However I can also see they must be absolutely incandescent with Beale for destabilising the club so badly at such a critical time in the season. We have to learn that one manager cannot just be allowed to spend the Board's money so happily and tear up the longer term strategy. |  | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 09:26 - Mar 1 with 1324 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Crying out for Warburton on 08:44 - Mar 1 by nix |
I don't think we can blame the club for the Beale fiasco. It absolutely was a decent appointment and seemed a step forward building on our previous managers. Having a young manager who was used to developing players but also had experience working at Premiership level seemed a really good move. But how often does a young manager in their first appointment leave after a few months, having been given everything they've asked for? It may happen but I can't remember it.
Where we may have made mistakes is in giving him everything he wanted in terms of keeping onto all three of Seny, Chair and Willock, while also spending a lot on wages for Paal, Tim, JCS, Balogun, Roberts etc. Let's face it we're unlikely to have spent that much on all of those players if we'd had a different manager.
Personally I would have given Warbs another season, if only for the continuity. But given they thought they would have a new young manager and we'd finished the last season so badly, I can see the thinking behind the decision. However I can also see they must be absolutely incandescent with Beale for destabilising the club so badly at such a critical time in the season. We have to learn that one manager cannot just be allowed to spend the Board's money so happily and tear up the longer term strategy. |
Agreed.
I mentioned in a couple of other posts: those running the circus since 2011 have never learned the need or benefits of the word 'no'. And they've had plenty of lessons in the interim to do so. | |
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| Crying out for Warburton on 09:30 - Mar 1 with 1322 views | PinnerPaul |
Being flippant think MW is just another person not involved that we are clinging to
Gubbins, any of the injured players, any player out on loan, any player in the U23s, Warnock....the list is endless | | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 09:35 - Mar 1 with 1309 views | TK1 |
| Crying out for Warburton on 22:15 - Feb 28 by davman |
Yes he has, but apparently facts don't count here; only speculation.
Was Dom Ball the answer? Hell no, but I'd much prefer him in our midfield than Timmy or Andre. And he gives an option at full back, which we are a little light on at the moment... |
You'd rather an injured Dominic Ball in our midfield? He couldn't get in the team when he was fit so he might struggle with a cruciate. And as for full back, imagine he was being picked now at Championship level as a full back...
This is such a daft debate. There's so much wrong at QPR but not renewing Dom Ball's contract is not one of the problems. Even Warbs had stopped picking him. | | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 10:09 - Mar 1 with 1219 views | Blue_Castello |
| Crying out for Warburton on 08:44 - Mar 1 by nix |
I don't think we can blame the club for the Beale fiasco. It absolutely was a decent appointment and seemed a step forward building on our previous managers. Having a young manager who was used to developing players but also had experience working at Premiership level seemed a really good move. But how often does a young manager in their first appointment leave after a few months, having been given everything they've asked for? It may happen but I can't remember it.
Where we may have made mistakes is in giving him everything he wanted in terms of keeping onto all three of Seny, Chair and Willock, while also spending a lot on wages for Paal, Tim, JCS, Balogun, Roberts etc. Let's face it we're unlikely to have spent that much on all of those players if we'd had a different manager.
Personally I would have given Warbs another season, if only for the continuity. But given they thought they would have a new young manager and we'd finished the last season so badly, I can see the thinking behind the decision. However I can also see they must be absolutely incandescent with Beale for destabilising the club so badly at such a critical time in the season. We have to learn that one manager cannot just be allowed to spend the Board's money so happily and tear up the longer term strategy. |
Pretty much echoes all my thoughts, again, I would have given Warbs one more year but the appointment of Beale seemed a master stroke and nobody was complaining up until the end of October, the owners can't win in some people's eyes whatever they do, although I'm assuming the DOF was more instrumental in making the decision to change managers.
Nobody plans for a Manager to leave that quickly it's almost unheard of for a Manager to be poached within months of starting a new job, we gave Beale what he wanted and he walked away, the way he handled himself was appalling but in football it's just seen as part of the game.
It's been interesting that I have seen a couple of articles recently where people say we are on our third manager after sacking two managers already, it's crazy how facts get distorted over time.
As for the Dom Ball discussion well it's all about opinions again, he was virtually injury free all the time he was on our books, he took a deal to go to Ipswich a good club in my opinion and has had at least two injuries preventing him from playing but if I had a choice between a fit Dom Ball and a fit Andre Dozzell well it's a no brainer, Dozzell looks every bit a League 1 player every time he steps on the pitch. [Post edited 1 Mar 2023 10:15]
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| Crying out for Warburton on 10:21 - Mar 1 with 1193 views | terryb |
| Crying out for Warburton on 10:09 - Mar 1 by Blue_Castello |
Pretty much echoes all my thoughts, again, I would have given Warbs one more year but the appointment of Beale seemed a master stroke and nobody was complaining up until the end of October, the owners can't win in some people's eyes whatever they do, although I'm assuming the DOF was more instrumental in making the decision to change managers.
Nobody plans for a Manager to leave that quickly it's almost unheard of for a Manager to be poached within months of starting a new job, we gave Beale what he wanted and he walked away, the way he handled himself was appalling but in football it's just seen as part of the game.
It's been interesting that I have seen a couple of articles recently where people say we are on our third manager after sacking two managers already, it's crazy how facts get distorted over time.
As for the Dom Ball discussion well it's all about opinions again, he was virtually injury free all the time he was on our books, he took a deal to go to Ipswich a good club in my opinion and has had at least two injuries preventing him from playing but if I had a choice between a fit Dom Ball and a fit Andre Dozzell well it's a no brainer, Dozzell looks every bit a League 1 player every time he steps on the pitch. [Post edited 1 Mar 2023 10:15]
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Interestingly, Ipswich supporters would take Dozzell any day in preference of the two. I don't think the club would though!
The fans would probably look to the promise he showed as a 17 year old breaking into their team & thinking they can nurse him back to that form. They would regard Ball as a sicknote with a record similar to Balogun.
I doubt that Warburton could be blamed for the £8 million increase in wages that the club paid in his last season to his first, but not delivering a play off place (at worst) was surely why they didn't offer a new contract. | | | |
| Crying out for Warburton on 10:30 - Mar 1 with 1145 views | PinnerPaul |
| Crying out for Warburton on 10:21 - Mar 1 by terryb |
Interestingly, Ipswich supporters would take Dozzell any day in preference of the two. I don't think the club would though!
The fans would probably look to the promise he showed as a 17 year old breaking into their team & thinking they can nurse him back to that form. They would regard Ball as a sicknote with a record similar to Balogun.
I doubt that Warburton could be blamed for the £8 million increase in wages that the club paid in his last season to his first, but not delivering a play off place (at worst) was surely why they didn't offer a new contract. |
That last paragraph is what me and several others on here have said.
Although I respect Clive's knowledge/contacts on the unrest around the academy staff.
Acid test, IF we had got in the play offs and certainly if we had won them, no way would he NOT have got a new contract. | | | |
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