| Is Dickie the new Maguire? 11:22 - Sep 15 with 8877 views | dermyqpr |
Don't think he will walk straight back in once free of his injury. Thoughts? |  | | |  |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:20 - Sep 15 with 1695 views | terryb |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 11:43 - Sep 15 by Northernr |
I'm not getting the Dunne love TBH. I think he's been poor since the turn of the year. Was great second half last night but, like a few of them, a very ropey start. I like him in general, he should play ahead of Balogun for the reasons I've given, but he's not played well in 2022 and he's cost us quite a few goals. |
I find this very interesting . Personally I would say that it is Dickie who has been poor since the start of the year & has cost us a lot of goals rather than Dunne! Has anybody got the figures?
Undoubtedly, Beale has demonstrated that he places Dickie higher up the pecking order & I can't see that changing. I understand your comments about playing Balogun & would not disagree.
However, I have doubts on Dickie & Dunne as a centre back partnership & would expect us to concede less goals if only one of them is playing. |  | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:23 - Sep 15 with 1682 views | Northernr |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:20 - Sep 15 by terryb |
I find this very interesting . Personally I would say that it is Dickie who has been poor since the start of the year & has cost us a lot of goals rather than Dunne! Has anybody got the figures?
Undoubtedly, Beale has demonstrated that he places Dickie higher up the pecking order & I can't see that changing. I understand your comments about playing Balogun & would not disagree.
However, I have doubts on Dickie & Dunne as a centre back partnership & would expect us to concede less goals if only one of them is playing. |
I think one thing we can be certain on is JCS is beale's first choice regardless, he loves him.
Dunne, don't get me wrong, big fan in general. But I think he's been in poor form for a while. Even last night in victory he did that thing once in the first half where he goes to side foot a clearance in his box and either scuffs it or drags his foot over it - see Boro's first goal at Loftus Road last year.
Dickie I thought started this season very decently. |  | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:28 - Sep 15 with 1652 views | Northernr |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:06 - Sep 15 by paulparker |
I get what your saying but if Balogun is the better player on form why should he be dropped
Yes we need to develop but if the aim is to finish as high as possible and if Beale wants play offs then you have to play your best team |
Basically for all the reasons I've written about every week for the last eight years.
Every transfer window it's the same thing. "The squad is weak" "the squad is thin" "we need at least five more players" "we must sign a striker" "Dykes is sht we need better than him" "why weren't we in for him" "what the fck is Les doing" "this team might go down" "we have to strengthen" on and on and on. It'll be the same in January.
We cannot sign players - the next Willock, Dickie, Chair, whoever it is - without selling players for big money. You're never going to sell Balugon for anything. Even if Dickie, Dunne and JCS are playing worse, you have to pick them. Otherwise we get the short term gain of Balugon this week, next week, week after, but this time next year we're back in the same boat of needing a centre back to replace him, but with no money to do it.
People want Balugon to play, that's fine. But I don't want to be hearing from those people in January about how we're "three or four short" because they're mutually exclusive. We do not get out of the situation we're in now by picking a 34-year-old ahead of what are three of our more sellable assets.
Unless, of course, he's so brilliant, he gets you promoted. But I think that's a stretch. | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:32 - Sep 15 with 1630 views | terryb |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:23 - Sep 15 by Northernr |
I think one thing we can be certain on is JCS is beale's first choice regardless, he loves him.
Dunne, don't get me wrong, big fan in general. But I think he's been in poor form for a while. Even last night in victory he did that thing once in the first half where he goes to side foot a clearance in his box and either scuffs it or drags his foot over it - see Boro's first goal at Loftus Road last year.
Dickie I thought started this season very decently. |
It's true to say that I was basing my percetion of Dickie errors more on last season than this. Dunne is definitely culpable when failing to shepherd the ball out of play!
I would certainly agree that JCS is the first choice & possibly that Dickie & Dunne would be his last choice partnership. It is because of their combined fallibility that I expect Balogun to play more games than the club would like.
I also feel that both Dickie & Dunne will improve without partnering each other. | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:39 - Sep 15 with 1615 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:06 - Sep 15 by paulparker |
I get what your saying but if Balogun is the better player on form why should he be dropped
Yes we need to develop but if the aim is to finish as high as possible and if Beale wants play offs then you have to play your best team |
In a 46 game season we need rotation options and the acquisition of Balogun looks very shrewd after last nights performance, particularly with having two cb’s out injured.
Dickie may well have had interest this summer, but he has unfortunately developed a reputation for his lack of pace and is often targeted by the opposition because of it. This will put most of the Prem teams off taking a punt. Dickie and Dunne are both very good, but have weaknesses and need further development. We have a coach that will do just that, although Beale definitely has one eye on making the play offs with this squad and I certainly have no problem with that.
Willock is surely our most sellable asset and will go in the summer if he can maintain his fitness and form, the boy is almost unplayable.
An injury to Paal is my biggest worry now as we have no cover (to speak of) in that area. Thought he was magnificent last night, particularly in the air, where he made his diminutive size look inconsequential.
It’s coming together, it really is. | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:57 - Sep 15 with 1568 views | dmm |
Beale continues to mention switching to 3 CBs. If/when he does I'll be very interested in his choice of CMs. I assume they'd be reduced from 3 to 2 in order to keep Illy and Willy on the pitch. Which 2 CMs could hold it together? |  | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:02 - Sep 15 with 1552 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:57 - Sep 15 by dmm |
Beale continues to mention switching to 3 CBs. If/when he does I'll be very interested in his choice of CMs. I assume they'd be reduced from 3 to 2 in order to keep Illy and Willy on the pitch. Which 2 CMs could hold it together? |
Would depend on the opposition for me. All teams present a different type of challenge.
The line up should always take that into account. | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:31 - Sep 15 with 1499 views | Sakura |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:28 - Sep 15 by Northernr |
Basically for all the reasons I've written about every week for the last eight years.
Every transfer window it's the same thing. "The squad is weak" "the squad is thin" "we need at least five more players" "we must sign a striker" "Dykes is sht we need better than him" "why weren't we in for him" "what the fck is Les doing" "this team might go down" "we have to strengthen" on and on and on. It'll be the same in January.
We cannot sign players - the next Willock, Dickie, Chair, whoever it is - without selling players for big money. You're never going to sell Balugon for anything. Even if Dickie, Dunne and JCS are playing worse, you have to pick them. Otherwise we get the short term gain of Balugon this week, next week, week after, but this time next year we're back in the same boat of needing a centre back to replace him, but with no money to do it.
People want Balugon to play, that's fine. But I don't want to be hearing from those people in January about how we're "three or four short" because they're mutually exclusive. We do not get out of the situation we're in now by picking a 34-year-old ahead of what are three of our more sellable assets.
Unless, of course, he's so brilliant, he gets you promoted. But I think that's a stretch. |
Realistically no one’s coming in for Dickie in January.
So next summer he will have one year left on his contract. How much do you think we will get for him IF someone does come in? I’d say not much
I much prefer Dickie over Dunne, but would say if we want to have a sellable asset, Dickie needs to first agree to a contract extension.
I would use this situation as leverage in that. For me Beale and Les should make it clear that until he is willing to agree a contract extension he is fourth choice and motivation for moving him from that spot remains low until he signs a new deal [Post edited 15 Sep 2022 14:32]
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| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:37 - Sep 15 with 1479 views | swisscottage |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:31 - Sep 15 by Sakura |
Realistically no one’s coming in for Dickie in January.
So next summer he will have one year left on his contract. How much do you think we will get for him IF someone does come in? I’d say not much
I much prefer Dickie over Dunne, but would say if we want to have a sellable asset, Dickie needs to first agree to a contract extension.
I would use this situation as leverage in that. For me Beale and Les should make it clear that until he is willing to agree a contract extension he is fourth choice and motivation for moving him from that spot remains low until he signs a new deal [Post edited 15 Sep 2022 14:32]
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How well did that work with Manning? | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:37 - Sep 15 with 1480 views | Northernr |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:31 - Sep 15 by Sakura |
Realistically no one’s coming in for Dickie in January.
So next summer he will have one year left on his contract. How much do you think we will get for him IF someone does come in? I’d say not much
I much prefer Dickie over Dunne, but would say if we want to have a sellable asset, Dickie needs to first agree to a contract extension.
I would use this situation as leverage in that. For me Beale and Les should make it clear that until he is willing to agree a contract extension he is fourth choice and motivation for moving him from that spot remains low until he signs a new deal [Post edited 15 Sep 2022 14:32]
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It's interesting, obviously sellable asset no.1 atm is Willock, also out of contract three transfer windows from now, I suspect very unlikely to sign a new one here. Dickie I think more likely to extend. But even this retention of our existing players probably requires a sale, to offer them significant enough increases to make it worth their while and not chance their arm on the free agent market - a nasty catch 22 that's only going to get worse the longer we go from the Eze sale without selling somebody else. Dickie and Willock would both be inundated with offers on a free and they/their agents know this. | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:49 - Sep 15 with 1445 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 12:41 - Sep 15 by connell10 |
Because he is Irish ??? |
Yes, glad I am not the only one that thought that was an odd comment. |  | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:53 - Sep 15 with 1422 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Another Dickie fan here. Defo undeserving of Maguire comparisons!
Rolls Royce of a player both in composure (and speed according to some) |  | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 15:12 - Sep 15 with 1379 views | TheChef |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:49 - Sep 15 by CroydonCaptJack |
Yes, glad I am not the only one that thought that was an odd comment. |
I assume the Irish thing is an allusion to a comparison with Macca? |  |
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| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 15:13 - Sep 15 with 1371 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:23 - Sep 15 by Northernr |
I think one thing we can be certain on is JCS is beale's first choice regardless, he loves him.
Dunne, don't get me wrong, big fan in general. But I think he's been in poor form for a while. Even last night in victory he did that thing once in the first half where he goes to side foot a clearance in his box and either scuffs it or drags his foot over it - see Boro's first goal at Loftus Road last year.
Dickie I thought started this season very decently. |
I get those few scuffed clearances stand-out but I would say what is'nt so immediately obvious and why we are (were) conceding is Dickie's lack of physical presence, whether it be against long balls (like Sunderland away) or corners (like Charlton away in the cup),
I don't see Dickie playing in the Premier League and think the Palace friendly reinforced my view when he got caught badly square a couple of times and ruined for pace (no shame as was Zaha) so he needs to develop his game so he can be a commanding Centre Half in a 2 at Championship level.
To do this I think he needs to be much more physical and play the man more rather than always playing the ball and trying to make clean contact. I get he won't be playing Mitrovic every week but that should be the level he should set himself and he needs to be more dominant, nasty and vocal.
Dunne is playing on his weaker left side and has a less attacking fullback in Paal beside him, yet too often we see Dunne taking responsibility for bringing the ball out when this should be Dickie.
Dickie is the ball playing Centre Half, with Laird outside him, and he should be taking the lead here and be the outlet. I'm not saying he's hiding but I think its an example of his character where he does'nt seem the most confident at times as we saw after his rare mistake in possession away at Bournemouth last season.
Like Dickie alot, was brilliant in 1st Half of last season, but similar to Barbet, prefer him in a 3 and think his lack of dominance defending set pieces in the box means its important to have Field and Dykes on the pitch if we play Dickie in the 2, to bring some much needed height and physical presence in defending set pieces. | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 15:19 - Sep 15 with 1372 views | terryb |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:49 - Sep 15 by CroydonCaptJack |
Yes, glad I am not the only one that thought that was an odd comment. |
I did understand the Irish comment Pete & Jon.
For quite a while I've also gained the impression that a few board members have gone overboard with their defence of players at Rangers that qualify to play for Ireland, although I thought I was alone!
The most notable for this was Myke, who appears to have left the board, with his continual support & comments regarding Manning & Hendrick in particular.
This certainly doesn't apply to a good number of our members form across the sea though. | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 15:37 - Sep 15 with 1325 views | ngbqpr |
In a back 3, I sometimes think Dickie & Dunne both show the potential to be lower end of Prem players.
In a back 2, I think they're both very good Championship players. |  |
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| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 16:06 - Sep 15 with 1287 views | Sakura |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:37 - Sep 15 by Northernr |
It's interesting, obviously sellable asset no.1 atm is Willock, also out of contract three transfer windows from now, I suspect very unlikely to sign a new one here. Dickie I think more likely to extend. But even this retention of our existing players probably requires a sale, to offer them significant enough increases to make it worth their while and not chance their arm on the free agent market - a nasty catch 22 that's only going to get worse the longer we go from the Eze sale without selling somebody else. Dickie and Willock would both be inundated with offers on a free and they/their agents know this. |
Don’t think the Willock comparison holds. Take Willock out the team and we are infinitely a poorer team. So of course it would never even be considered to try a similar tactic with him
But to swap Dickie out for one of Balogun, Dunne and JCS and it’s a small difference if any. So it doesn’t work as a comparison for me
True that as it stands, Dickie would have a lot of offers if in 18 months he leaves on a free. But if he spends those 18 months as 4th choice and starts maybe a handful of games those options are going to be severely limited.
But if he does sign a new deal and we are then incentivised again to give him the favouritism that you are suggesting and starting ahead of Balogun, even if he’s a worse player. His agents going to know that too
I get the feeling if he was going to sign an extension he would have done it by now. So need to use leverage where we have it
Next summer what’s the best case scenario. £2m ish if one year left. And that’s very unlikely as you said before that market doesn’t exist anymore really at our level | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 16:52 - Sep 15 with 1181 views | gazza1 |
We have 4 first team CB's.....all of them have their good stuff and all of them the bad stuff - that is why they play in the Championship. All of them have their limitations and all of them have cost us goals.
When they are all fully fit, then MB will have selection difficulties-big time. He will certainly have his preferred CB's, he may change his selections depending on who the opposition is or he may want to keep as settled side. On the face of it I would strongly suggest the pairing of Dickie & Salter as his first choice but I have not seen enough of Balogun but I haven't seen a lot of Clark-Salter either but he was our best defender at Blackburn on the opening day of he season.
To answer to opening post question....the answer is 'No'. | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 17:02 - Sep 15 with 1149 views | Northernr |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 16:06 - Sep 15 by Sakura |
Don’t think the Willock comparison holds. Take Willock out the team and we are infinitely a poorer team. So of course it would never even be considered to try a similar tactic with him
But to swap Dickie out for one of Balogun, Dunne and JCS and it’s a small difference if any. So it doesn’t work as a comparison for me
True that as it stands, Dickie would have a lot of offers if in 18 months he leaves on a free. But if he spends those 18 months as 4th choice and starts maybe a handful of games those options are going to be severely limited.
But if he does sign a new deal and we are then incentivised again to give him the favouritism that you are suggesting and starting ahead of Balogun, even if he’s a worse player. His agents going to know that too
I get the feeling if he was going to sign an extension he would have done it by now. So need to use leverage where we have it
Next summer what’s the best case scenario. £2m ish if one year left. And that’s very unlikely as you said before that market doesn’t exist anymore really at our level |
Well on the 'if he was going to sign an extension he would have done so' point you might be right, but as I keep saying I think our FFP headroom is so tight we're perhaps not in a position to offer extensions that our better players would consider. Much like what happened with Bright and Manning, who we also tried to strong arm into signing regardless at various points with no success at all. | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 17:04 - Sep 15 with 1142 views | BAWHoops |
Dickie just has a knock so Balogun comes in... don't think it's any more than that really (but does confirm that 24 year old Masterson isn't making it as this level).
But wanted to say the worst thing Maguire did was hang about at Man U this summer. Should've been on the first train out of there.
He's a fine defender who has been utterly ruined by a mess of a club. 18 months ago he was strolling through Euro QF's and SF's |  |
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| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 17:13 - Sep 15 with 1103 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 13:28 - Sep 15 by Northernr |
Basically for all the reasons I've written about every week for the last eight years.
Every transfer window it's the same thing. "The squad is weak" "the squad is thin" "we need at least five more players" "we must sign a striker" "Dykes is sht we need better than him" "why weren't we in for him" "what the fck is Les doing" "this team might go down" "we have to strengthen" on and on and on. It'll be the same in January.
We cannot sign players - the next Willock, Dickie, Chair, whoever it is - without selling players for big money. You're never going to sell Balugon for anything. Even if Dickie, Dunne and JCS are playing worse, you have to pick them. Otherwise we get the short term gain of Balugon this week, next week, week after, but this time next year we're back in the same boat of needing a centre back to replace him, but with no money to do it.
People want Balugon to play, that's fine. But I don't want to be hearing from those people in January about how we're "three or four short" because they're mutually exclusive. We do not get out of the situation we're in now by picking a 34-year-old ahead of what are three of our more sellable assets.
Unless, of course, he's so brilliant, he gets you promoted. But I think that's a stretch. |
If Beale thinks Balogun is better than what we have, or at least adds competition at centre back that helps Dunne and Dickie focus and improve (and hence become more saleable for those here who like to think more about the business than the team), then it's a canny signing for me if he improves our promotion prospects and contributes an experienced head to nurture the younger players. As for the transfer market and FFS, other clubs have shown they can improve their squads significantly without doing the Brentford 'rinse and repeat' schtick (or boom or bust). The vexing issue as to why we have been unable to acquire a half-decen t striker in years is a legitimate one regardless. Meanwhile, the club is not operating under different budgetary constraints from any other club, and the outrageously humungus fine we ultimately accepted Hoos has gone on record as saying does not impact transfer/contract budgets but is underwrittren by the owners. |  |
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| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 17:19 - Sep 15 with 1110 views | PinnerPaul |
I think the whole "Who are our best two defenders?" debate is a little pointless.
With injuries suspension, we certainly need 4.
Dickie started the season a little 'slowly' in my view and we haven't seen enough of either Balougan (Spelling -sorry!) & JCS to place them in the pecking order in any case.
Own personal view is that Rob's lack of pace will hold him back from the very top, but that could turn out to be complete nonsense! | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 17:41 - Sep 15 with 1083 views | Malintabuk |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 11:55 - Sep 15 by James_Paddocks |
You get the feeling Mick just ain't having Dunne. It'll be JCS and Dickie, with Balogun as back up. |
Unfortunately I think the same
But I'm in the old school of wanting at least one of my centre halves being a monster.
Haarland is a throw back to the monster CF and the championship has it's fair share of big lumps up front.
As posted the last few months of last season everyone fell off the cliff as did Dunne
Last night he was dominant in the box and won nearly every duel and challenge | | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 17:44 - Sep 15 with 1072 views | eastside_r |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 11:43 - Sep 15 by Northernr |
I'm not getting the Dunne love TBH. I think he's been poor since the turn of the year. Was great second half last night but, like a few of them, a very ropey start. I like him in general, he should play ahead of Balogun for the reasons I've given, but he's not played well in 2022 and he's cost us quite a few goals. |
Boo, hiss!
I like him a lot, especially after he appeared on the podcast last year after burying the winning penalty against Everton. But really I get your point, but who in the team at the back end of last season was playing well? I wouldn't single him out.
However, it's obvious that JCS is Beale's boy and first choice (default) will probably be him and Dickie, with Dunne and Balogun as back-ups.
Masterson, it appears, has failed to convince consecutive managers that he can cut it at this level which is a shame, but I 've not seen enough of him to form an opinion either way. So I guess you have to go with what the manager sees on the training ground. |  | | |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 17:50 - Sep 15 with 1050 views | PinnerPaul |
| Is Dickie the new Maguire? on 14:37 - Sep 15 by swisscottage |
How well did that work with Manning? |
AAAGGGHHHHHHH!  | | | |
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