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Posted with some trepidation as I know Clive doesn’t like multis. Understandably overlooked by the national media, but it seems like the Russians are completely caving in, rope-a-doped as effectively as von Paulus in 1942. Who knows what this might lead to?
US military aid is audited within an inch of its life, routinely.
As anyone with a brain cell would expect, given the humungous amounts that go out every year e.g. to Israel.
The secret of whether anyone who relies on Breitbart for news actually has a brain cell might be revealed, I suppose.
Just how much leverage the likes of massive has with a Republican majority in the House of at most 13 and possibly as low as one, a minority in the Senate, and Biden in the White House will be interesting to see, though. Clue: I'm willing to bet at least 20 GOP representatives would break ranks over an attempt to help out Putin. It's the Trumpites who are keen, and their stock is not high right now.
PS for God's sake please don't anyone go off on one about Israel, it's just a fact that the USA puts a lot of cash their way, they were doing the same for Afghanistan until recently.
Appeasement may - or may not - have been invented by the English, but if it was, I think you'll find that it considerably predates 1939! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danegeld
More generally, while "appeasement" has become a dirty word since WWII, it is often forgotten that right up until September 1939 and the invasion of Poland, it was actually widely popular in Britain - witness the widespread popularity of Chamberlain when he flew back into Croydon to declare "Peace in our Time" etc
And it shouldn't be hard to understand why. Generally, a desire to make peace and avoid war is a good thing. And in Chamberlain's case, coming relatively soon after the Great War, when millions had been slaughtered, it was entirley reasonable to want to avoid further carnage if at all possible.
So his desire to preserve the peace should not be disdained, rather it was his misjudgement in assessing Hitler's real motives, and the latter's assertion that annexing the Sudetenland would be his final (legitimate) demand.
Which brings us neatly back to Ukraine. It is entirely understandable that Ukraine and the West should want to avoid unecessary conflict with Russia. Which could mean, for example, Ukraine not being admitted to NATO, or there being no re-acquisition by Ukraine of the nuclear weapons which they gave up after 1991.
And had that been all which Putin wanted, it would not have been unreasonable to "appease" him [sic].
But just as Hitler successiively gave signals to his real intention by first re-arming, then militarising the Rhineland, then making the Anschluss with Austria, and then the Sudetenland etc, we should have read the signs with Putin: Georgia, Transdeniestria, Chechnya and finally Crimea.
Of course when Hitler earlier viewed events and concluded (wrongly) that he could go ahead and invade Poland without repercussions, similarly Putin miscalculated after Crimea that he could invade Ukraine, quickly and easily, and the West would do nothing.
As the philosopher Santayana once said: "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
Minor point of pedantry - Chamberlain flew back to Heston aerodrome, not Croydon.
To turn things nicely round - our new training ground is on the site of the old Heston Aerodrome. MIck Beale is probably giving teamtalks on the exact sport where Chamberlain stood.
Agreed. And I can’t wait for those pesky warmongering Democrats to lose the 2024 election to Donald Trump’s Republicans. Hunter Biden’s laptop etc. Conspiracy bingo!
Heaven forbid that a celebrity TV star could become the leader of a major country. Only in Ukraine…
Sorry, TiV, can't let this go. You mention Hunter Biden's laptop as a conspiracy theory. But by who? The allegation, pre the election, that it was a russian smear campaign, was widely reported by a media desperate to see the back of Trump. That we now know it was actually Hunter Biden's computer was much less widely reported. Investigative reporter Glenn Greenwald, who dropped the Snowden story on the world, filed a piece on the authenticity of the computer for the news website he helped found, The Intercept, who refused to run it on the grounds that it would hurt biden in the election run up. This is not what Investigative reporting is supposed to be about. The New York Post, who ran the initial story, were locked out of social media accounts. etc etc The actual content of the laptop, though not great for Joe Biden, isn't at all conclusive in that he has done anything wrong. And there is talk that content was added to the laptop after he handed it in to the repair shop. The story here is the suppression of a news story by the media in order to favour one candidate over another, something which I feel is wrong. Oh, and the use of Russia as a convenient bogeyman, not great for international relations and bridge building.
Sorry, TiV, can't let this go. You mention Hunter Biden's laptop as a conspiracy theory. But by who? The allegation, pre the election, that it was a russian smear campaign, was widely reported by a media desperate to see the back of Trump. That we now know it was actually Hunter Biden's computer was much less widely reported. Investigative reporter Glenn Greenwald, who dropped the Snowden story on the world, filed a piece on the authenticity of the computer for the news website he helped found, The Intercept, who refused to run it on the grounds that it would hurt biden in the election run up. This is not what Investigative reporting is supposed to be about. The New York Post, who ran the initial story, were locked out of social media accounts. etc etc The actual content of the laptop, though not great for Joe Biden, isn't at all conclusive in that he has done anything wrong. And there is talk that content was added to the laptop after he handed it in to the repair shop. The story here is the suppression of a news story by the media in order to favour one candidate over another, something which I feel is wrong. Oh, and the use of Russia as a convenient bogeyman, not great for international relations and bridge building.
News stories being given a 'good leaving alone', are par for the course in the US.
Sorry, TiV, can't let this go. You mention Hunter Biden's laptop as a conspiracy theory. But by who? The allegation, pre the election, that it was a russian smear campaign, was widely reported by a media desperate to see the back of Trump. That we now know it was actually Hunter Biden's computer was much less widely reported. Investigative reporter Glenn Greenwald, who dropped the Snowden story on the world, filed a piece on the authenticity of the computer for the news website he helped found, The Intercept, who refused to run it on the grounds that it would hurt biden in the election run up. This is not what Investigative reporting is supposed to be about. The New York Post, who ran the initial story, were locked out of social media accounts. etc etc The actual content of the laptop, though not great for Joe Biden, isn't at all conclusive in that he has done anything wrong. And there is talk that content was added to the laptop after he handed it in to the repair shop. The story here is the suppression of a news story by the media in order to favour one candidate over another, something which I feel is wrong. Oh, and the use of Russia as a convenient bogeyman, not great for international relations and bridge building.
‘The actual content of the laptop, though not great for Joe Biden, isn't at all conclusive in that he has done anything wrong. And there is talk that content was added to the laptop after he handed it in to the repair shop.’
Therein lies the problem. It was a last minute misinformation attempt intended to swing the 2020 election in Trump’s favour. It didn’t land because some news outlets (not all) and social media platforms were sceptical of its authenticity, timing and relevance. They have ultimately been proven right imo.
Personally I feel the media has a responsibility to identify the facts before reporting a news story. Social media has blurred the lines with facts becoming a commodity that can be weaponised.
You have acknowledged that the actual content of the laptop isn’t conclusive and questionable. Would you have been comfortable with the media misrepresenting the story and Trump winning the election off the back of it?
To turn things nicely round - our new training ground is on the site of the old Heston Aerodrome. MIck Beale is probably giving teamtalks on the exact sport where Chamberlain stood.
Excellent. "Lads, I have here a piece of paper, bearing my signature and that of QPR leader Les Ferdinand, stating that I will never again think about leaving for another club".
‘The actual content of the laptop, though not great for Joe Biden, isn't at all conclusive in that he has done anything wrong. And there is talk that content was added to the laptop after he handed it in to the repair shop.’
Therein lies the problem. It was a last minute misinformation attempt intended to swing the 2020 election in Trump’s favour. It didn’t land because some news outlets (not all) and social media platforms were sceptical of its authenticity, timing and relevance. They have ultimately been proven right imo.
Personally I feel the media has a responsibility to identify the facts before reporting a news story. Social media has blurred the lines with facts becoming a commodity that can be weaponised.
You have acknowledged that the actual content of the laptop isn’t conclusive and questionable. Would you have been comfortable with the media misrepresenting the story and Trump winning the election off the back of it?
There was a huge disinformation campaign that it was a Russian info operation though, which it wasn't. And that it wasn't Hunter Biden's laptop, which it was. Republican or democrat? Biden or Trump? None of them.
Hunter Biden's laptop is just a wånkathon for the MAGA world loons. Otherwise it's a non-story, and a microscopically small one compared to all the shit swirling around Trump.
Hunter Biden's laptop is just a wånkathon for the MAGA world loons. Otherwise it's a non-story, and a microscopically small one compared to all the shit swirling around Trump.
it's not the laptop that concerns me, as I say, it was the role of the media. Still, throw some generalisations and insults around, that should do the trick.
That should add a few more Billions to our debt no doubt.
Yep. He's just donated another £50m of OUR money for weapons, without asking US and having told us just days ago that the country is skint.
The whole thing is outrageous. P!sses me right off that our govt taxes us to the hilt then uses the money to fund wars without ever bothering to ask us. I want my money back, I don't want to fund Ukrainian weapons, and I want to see Zelensky forced to the negotiating table for peace talks.
Seems to me that the weapons manufacturers decide policy on this planet
Very much like the msm/politicians and every other fringe group who have skin in the game who almost every year predict we have weeks/days/hours to save the NHS. Same as those who have been telling us over many decades that we have so little time to save the planet.
Those who work for the NHS, like my wife, will soldier on come what may, but with an ageing population, a record waiting list for operations and 140k vacancies, the NHS system is highly stressed and it can be a very tough place to work. I can't put into words how much I admire the people who choose to work there.
As for the planet, I think most people in the UK aren't seeing the worst impacts of climate change yet, although changing rainfall patterns, with long dry periods followed by very wet ones, are making it very difficult for farmers. Elsewhere, large tracts of land are, or are close, to being uninhabitable due to rising temperatures, sea levels and drought, and that is before we even reach tipping points like the Amazon rainforest being so hot and dry that we just lose it to natural wildfires, with devastating consequences for rainfall patterns in the Americas and Australia.
It's very difficult to predict exactly how long we have to keep the planet as inhabitable as it is currently but the direction of travel is not encouraging and we are on track to miss the 1.5 degrees of warming - the supposedly safe level - by quite some distance, I think 2.4 degrees of warming is the current trajectory.
We really need to take climate change seriously, once certain tipping points are passed, no amount of money or collective effort will fix things.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
Yep. He's just donated another £50m of OUR money for weapons, without asking US and having told us just days ago that the country is skint.
The whole thing is outrageous. P!sses me right off that our govt taxes us to the hilt then uses the money to fund wars without ever bothering to ask us. I want my money back, I don't want to fund Ukrainian weapons, and I want to see Zelensky forced to the negotiating table for peace talks.
Seems to me that the weapons manufacturers decide policy on this planet
[Post edited 19 Nov 2022 17:22]
How about letting the Ukrainians decide when they go to the negotiating table, after all it is they who have been invaded and they who are dying in the thousands and being terrorised.
Putin and Russia has shown on repeated occasions they will not stick to any deal, and the best conditions they will agree to will be a ceasefire and a frozen conflict that allows them to rebuild their war machine and go again.
Putin doesn't acknowledge Ukraine as a state, so how can there be any negotiating with that?
They invaded back in 2014, tearing up the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. Built up a force they though big enough to conquer Ukraine. The Wests lack of a backbone and appeasement back in 2014 is why he thought he could come back for more.
What on earth makes you think he can be trusted on anything he signs?
We all want a negotiated peace, but it has to be something that will last and that will not happen under Putin while he still believes Ukraine's lands are Russian.
You may not want your money spent to arm Ukraine, However I do, as I firmly believe that to allow Putin any form of victory will be far more expensive in the long term.
Those who work for the NHS, like my wife, will soldier on come what may, but with an ageing population, a record waiting list for operations and 140k vacancies, the NHS system is highly stressed and it can be a very tough place to work. I can't put into words how much I admire the people who choose to work there.
As for the planet, I think most people in the UK aren't seeing the worst impacts of climate change yet, although changing rainfall patterns, with long dry periods followed by very wet ones, are making it very difficult for farmers. Elsewhere, large tracts of land are, or are close, to being uninhabitable due to rising temperatures, sea levels and drought, and that is before we even reach tipping points like the Amazon rainforest being so hot and dry that we just lose it to natural wildfires, with devastating consequences for rainfall patterns in the Americas and Australia.
It's very difficult to predict exactly how long we have to keep the planet as inhabitable as it is currently but the direction of travel is not encouraging and we are on track to miss the 1.5 degrees of warming - the supposedly safe level - by quite some distance, I think 2.4 degrees of warming is the current trajectory.
We really need to take climate change seriously, once certain tipping points are passed, no amount of money or collective effort will fix things.
Would you notice if it was 1.5 degree warmer if someone hadn't told you?
Would you notice if it was 1.5 degree warmer if someone hadn't told you?
A drop of 5-6 degrees is enough to trigger an ice age, so a 1.5 degree change, although it sounds benign, is pretty significant. Bear in mind also that when there is talk of temperature rise, that is the global average. Temperatures have risen by more than 1.5 degrees in some places, for example, the Arctic.
I noticed that there was a drought last summer which killed many of my plants, not that that in itself is a disaster but I also noticed that more or less ever water region surrounding my area had a hosepipe ban, rivers in my county dwindled to such an extent that the fish clinging on in isolated pools had to be rescued and there were farmers on the local news talking about the devastating effects on their crops.
I also noticed that a place down the road had a month during which there was literally zero rain.
Plenty of (for their time) advanced civilizations have collapsed due to climate change, don't kid yourself that we are immune to it.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
Yep. He's just donated another £50m of OUR money for weapons, without asking US and having told us just days ago that the country is skint.
The whole thing is outrageous. P!sses me right off that our govt taxes us to the hilt then uses the money to fund wars without ever bothering to ask us. I want my money back, I don't want to fund Ukrainian weapons, and I want to see Zelensky forced to the negotiating table for peace talks.
Seems to me that the weapons manufacturers decide policy on this planet
[Post edited 19 Nov 2022 17:22]
Christ on a bike. So given your logic Churchill should have began suing for peace once we had been defeated at Dunkirk? Would have been the cheaper option at the time without doubt but Europe would have then been under the perpetual rule of the Nazis and the Holocaust would have just been the beginning. The UK would have been a subservient partner in the worlds biggest genocide. And eventually greater and more damaging wars would have broken out. If Putin gets what he wants from Ukraine then the Baltic states and Moldova will be next on the list emboldened by the appeasement of the West. It is obvious that this son of the Soviet Union yearns for a return to those times with full control of the peoples as was the way during the Cold War. I suspect that with your propensity to believe every bit of social media drivel promoted as the truth is in as many ways as dangerous as what Putin is trying to achieve. Have you had your CV19 booster jab yet?
it's not the laptop that concerns me, as I say, it was the role of the media. Still, throw some generalisations and insults around, that should do the trick.
I really didn't have you down as a MAGA type at all, but they seem to like you.
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