| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... 21:54 - Sep 7 with 17018 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
Been a lot of discussion on here about lack of quality coming through the academy. This paragraph from Dom Balls book may explain why.
'My next trial was at QPR, who ran a centre of excellence rather than an academy. I wasn't to excited about playing at anything less than an academy, but they were close by and might offer an easier pathway to the first team. I went to an evening session with my age group and trained on an Astroturf pitch which was only half lit. I had been spoilt with the excellent facilities we had at Harefield (Watford) so this felt like a comedown. The coaches arranged a five-a-side tournament and after my experience at Leicester, I played with confidence and again I was offered a contract on the spot. I was buzzing on the way home but couldn't see myself going back due to the quality of the facilities."
He was 15 years old, no wonder we haven't produced our own. Hopefully the new training centre will help. |  | | |  |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 15:15 - Sep 8 with 3164 views | PinnerPaul |
Well in the programme currently airing about Palace's academy, the facilities/staff numbers look superb, maybe even good enough to impress a 15 year old Dom Ball  , but it is said on the programme they expect "less than 1%" to "make it" | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 15:32 - Sep 8 with 3129 views | OakR |
My son currently trains once a week at Palace's 'Talent Centre', which is based at the Academy site.
There is no doubt it's impressive and makes an impression, and we've not been inside the main building bits.
I suspect if you are a parent and you look at it, it just looks professional and a great place to train. I suspect these things do make a difference if you have different offers. | |
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| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 15:48 - Sep 8 with 3092 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 15:32 - Sep 8 by OakR |
My son currently trains once a week at Palace's 'Talent Centre', which is based at the Academy site.
There is no doubt it's impressive and makes an impression, and we've not been inside the main building bits.
I suspect if you are a parent and you look at it, it just looks professional and a great place to train. I suspect these things do make a difference if you have different offers. |
Of course, but my point is, it doesn't necessarily mean that you produce more 'stars'.
The bigger the pool the greater the chance obviously and the best youth coaches are going to go to the best facilities, but obviously there isn't a magic formula, if there was, everyone would be using it! | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 16:57 - Sep 8 with 3024 views | OakR |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 15:48 - Sep 8 by PinnerPaul |
Of course, but my point is, it doesn't necessarily mean that you produce more 'stars'.
The bigger the pool the greater the chance obviously and the best youth coaches are going to go to the best facilities, but obviously there isn't a magic formula, if there was, everyone would be using it! |
When I did my Level 1 coaching a few years ago, we were given a stat of how many academy kids would go on to play in the Premier League. I think it was 0.01%.
So yes chances are low whatever you do, but good facilities just give you a better chance of recruiting good coaches and players, all other things being equal
I've found the series quite interesting, and quite depressing for some of the kids, so many think they will make it, so much pressure on some of them and some of the parents are too much. Sad when so few will. Love the coaches though. | |
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| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 17:16 - Sep 8 with 2991 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 16:57 - Sep 8 by OakR |
When I did my Level 1 coaching a few years ago, we were given a stat of how many academy kids would go on to play in the Premier League. I think it was 0.01%.
So yes chances are low whatever you do, but good facilities just give you a better chance of recruiting good coaches and players, all other things being equal
I've found the series quite interesting, and quite depressing for some of the kids, so many think they will make it, so much pressure on some of them and some of the parents are too much. Sad when so few will. Love the coaches though. |
Agree and ditto re the series.
My one gripe with the otherwise excellent looking set up/care/coaching the players receive is the the talk of giving the boys a 'contract' at 12 years old.
As the programme points out there is a long long way to go after that and calling an invitation to train for another 2 years a 'contract' is misleading.
One quote from one of the parents was appalling 'Its not a team game" sad, frightening and of course, totally wrong all at the same time.
Even Haaland wouldn't score without his team mates!
TBF to Palace it was mentioned when they didn't renew a boys 'contract' but there IS an awful lot of football 'beneath' that level - but some of the parents and boys act like they will be 'finished' if they don't get to the next age group at Palace.
Soooo many examples in the professional game of players being rejected, yet making still making it - our 'own' Mr Eze an obvious example. | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 18:04 - Sep 8 with 2920 views | themodfather |
we used to churn our home grown talent, used to win the football combination and se counties cups often, we had a great youth set up, that was thru the 80s and 90s, then a decline happened, as we went skint, cuts were made and the lack of investment, most of us wanted not to55ers on huge wages etc when we got to the prem lge. we wanted development from within, where we could sell as needed and keep the best.
we got bogged down for too long with warren farm, old oak/car giant and i wonder how much was wasted in those projects? probably some still ongoing lol | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 18:30 - Sep 8 with 2889 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 16:57 - Sep 8 by OakR |
When I did my Level 1 coaching a few years ago, we were given a stat of how many academy kids would go on to play in the Premier League. I think it was 0.01%.
So yes chances are low whatever you do, but good facilities just give you a better chance of recruiting good coaches and players, all other things being equal
I've found the series quite interesting, and quite depressing for some of the kids, so many think they will make it, so much pressure on some of them and some of the parents are too much. Sad when so few will. Love the coaches though. |
Your correct. 1% become professional footballers of which 0.1 are Premier League. In Dom Balls book he says that from U16 the coaches know who will get a contract, the rest of the boys are there to make the team for the 'talented' boys to play in. It is brutal.
I really would recommend everyone to read it if they can.
I do think our new facilities will have a big impact, but it will take 5 to 7 years to see it bear fruit. | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 20:05 - Sep 8 with 2829 views | TGRRRSSS |
I've also been watching the Palace Academy programme, been great and gives insights into things/
I've been convinced for years that so many seem to simply give up after leaving an Academy or club whatever the situation might be.
The statistics broadly speaking would suggest the Academy's on a pure numbers game are a total failure.
Now clearly they must do a lot but I often wonder how many struggle with the pressure then get destroyed by the failure when let go by a club.
Do other countries produce more talent like France say? The league isnt so strong but the international side is far more successful, even including the whole of the UK and Ireland (many come to UK sides) the numbers seem low comparatively |  | | |
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| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 11:37 - Sep 9 with 2618 views | derbyhoop |
I would hope that the new training complex will help us to attract better youngsters. However, parents and their kids, see the huge wages on offer, at the bigger clubs on our doorstep, and are seduced by riches to come.
If we struggle to compete with Fulham, Chelsea and Arsenal (Saka from Greenford?), so what, but we should be able to overtake Reading and Watford.
Brentford dropped their academy and the drop out rate should continually make owners question the value of academies. Is the better alternative poaching kids released from PL academies? |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 14:41 - Sep 9 with 2521 views | DavieQPR |
Although we now have good facilities a lot is governed by how far we can cast our net. Chelsea have a vast network covering all the Home Counties. My son was scouted by them in Essex. He used to wear his QPR shirt to trials and they still kept him on. |  | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 15:50 - Sep 9 with 2459 views | kensalriser |
We've always been poor at this, haven't we? I'm sure that after our relegation in 1996 it transpired that none of the youngsters even made it as league players. We had nothing beyond the post-Les weakened first 11. |  |
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| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 19:26 - Sep 9 with 2345 views | terryb |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 15:50 - Sep 9 by kensalriser |
We've always been poor at this, haven't we? I'm sure that after our relegation in 1996 it transpired that none of the youngsters even made it as league players. We had nothing beyond the post-Les weakened first 11. |
Not always kensal. We had many England youth internationals that became Rangers first team players from the 60's to the '90's.
It is possible though that this was all prior to your birth & our record this century is poor.
I have no idea why we were so sucessful for nearly 30 years & then it all dried up! I'm sure it wasn't due to better facilities, but I think the club deliberately set out to sign the best youth players & offer a route to the first team. It might be that clubs like Pathfinders in Slough were regarded as nursery clubs for Queens Park Rangers & I'm sure that they wouldn't have been alone.
I hope I'm wrong, especially as he was a product of our youth, was it the Gerry Francis era when this dried up? | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 20:18 - Sep 9 with 2305 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 19:26 - Sep 9 by terryb |
Not always kensal. We had many England youth internationals that became Rangers first team players from the 60's to the '90's.
It is possible though that this was all prior to your birth & our record this century is poor.
I have no idea why we were so sucessful for nearly 30 years & then it all dried up! I'm sure it wasn't due to better facilities, but I think the club deliberately set out to sign the best youth players & offer a route to the first team. It might be that clubs like Pathfinders in Slough were regarded as nursery clubs for Queens Park Rangers & I'm sure that they wouldn't have been alone.
I hope I'm wrong, especially as he was a product of our youth, was it the Gerry Francis era when this dried up? |
For a good Youth system to work my impression is that the whole club has to be completely aligned. During that 70s, 80s & 90s era the club had little money so focused on producing home grown talents along with buying lower league gems, and it worked. After relegation in 96 I think the club panicked and tried to buy their way back up (Sheron etc), when that failed the youth system had withered and then the money dried up. We have been fire fighting ever since.
Only in the past couple of years are we starting to see us return to the original format, but I keep saying with the new facility it will still take 5 years at least to see results. But at least we are now trying to do it properly. | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 20:38 - Sep 9 with 2279 views | Hastings_Hoops |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 15:50 - Sep 9 by kensalriser |
We've always been poor at this, haven't we? I'm sure that after our relegation in 1996 it transpired that none of the youngsters even made it as league players. We had nothing beyond the post-Les weakened first 11. |
Nigel Quashie & Richard Langley may disagree. |  | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 22:44 - Sep 9 with 2213 views | TheRam |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 15:48 - Sep 8 by PinnerPaul |
Of course, but my point is, it doesn't necessarily mean that you produce more 'stars'.
The bigger the pool the greater the chance obviously and the best youth coaches are going to go to the best facilities, but obviously there isn't a magic formula, if there was, everyone would be using it! |
You’re right it doesn’t mean that, you still still need the right staff etc but if the young players you think you can work with choose you over others because of facilities/first impressions it’s a decent start x | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 22:54 - Sep 9 with 2202 views | noauthority |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 22:43 - Sep 7 by qpr1976 |
“I wasn’t to excited…..”
‘too’
He should have payed attention at school !
Poorly written, poorly proofread & poorly published.
But I guess he has a point. Not long now…..🤞 |
That makes two who ought to have 'PAID' attention in school 😂 | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 10:17 - Sep 10 with 2013 views | DannytheR |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 15:50 - Sep 9 by kensalriser |
We've always been poor at this, haven't we? I'm sure that after our relegation in 1996 it transpired that none of the youngsters even made it as league players. We had nothing beyond the post-Les weakened first 11. |
Don't disagree BUT there's a parallel reality where Gallen doesn't get injured two games into the first season after relegation and Dichio doesn't leave for Italy. The two of them were too raw to keep us up, but for me they'd have been good enough to get us promoted again - as two west London boys who had both come through as apprentices. |  | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 01:14 - Sep 11 with 1850 views | NewBee |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 11:33 - Sep 8 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Palace have always had a decent fanbase as they have a large catchment area in Croydon itself and the areas that surround it. They are even hoovering up some of the teenage Stone Island types that might once have gone to the 'Wall because of their 'ultras'. 
As has been observed elsewhere, they are also benefitting from the diverse demographics of that part of SE London in terms of attracting young players to the club.
I think the difference with Charlton is, like ourselves, there are other clubs close by and if you're not in the Premier League, it's increasingly difficult to attract young fans. |
Tbf, it's not just a matter of attracting the best young local talent to your Academy, it's also very difficult to keep them (or the best of them, at any rate) for any length of time - eg Raheem Sterling.
Theres no simple answer, other than damned hard work, cleverly directed and resourced.
Coincidentally, I recently read an article in The Athletic which showed how Spurs upped their own Academy significantly, after years when even very local kids from their traditional catchment area were all going to Arsenal instead. One of the significant individuals cited in helping turn it round was your Chris Ramsey. | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 07:03 - Sep 11 with 1808 views | StreathamRanger |
I have a few friends with kids at different academies in South London (Charlton, Fulham, Palace). Charlton's academy seems to be punching above their first team's league position. They seem to win as many as they lose against bigger clubs academies like Palace and Fulham. The QPR academy rarely seems to register when they're talking about good teams they've come up against.
My son's team played in a tournament a few weeks back. We were totally out of our depth as there were teams with academy boys in them and they ran rings round us. One team stood out and they were made up mainly of boys from Chelsea's academy. My son plays under 11. Some of the boys from Chelsea were only 8 yet their level was astonishing. Apparently, one of the kids has been given a seven year contract aged 9 as he's wanted by every top club in the country.
Hopefully our new facilities will enable us to be more competitive when it comes to attracting top young talent. It's going to be very hard though as there is serious competition. | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 08:03 - Sep 11 with 1759 views | nix |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 07:03 - Sep 11 by StreathamRanger |
I have a few friends with kids at different academies in South London (Charlton, Fulham, Palace). Charlton's academy seems to be punching above their first team's league position. They seem to win as many as they lose against bigger clubs academies like Palace and Fulham. The QPR academy rarely seems to register when they're talking about good teams they've come up against.
My son's team played in a tournament a few weeks back. We were totally out of our depth as there were teams with academy boys in them and they ran rings round us. One team stood out and they were made up mainly of boys from Chelsea's academy. My son plays under 11. Some of the boys from Chelsea were only 8 yet their level was astonishing. Apparently, one of the kids has been given a seven year contract aged 9 as he's wanted by every top club in the country.
Hopefully our new facilities will enable us to be more competitive when it comes to attracting top young talent. It's going to be very hard though as there is serious competition. |
Their training ground is ridiculous. It's absolutely massive and I can imagine is very impressive to those parents with pound signs in their eyes. They have pitches that replicates the dimensions of every Premiership ground that they practise on between games.
Also I was told that they actually pay the top eight and nine year olds to play for them. This was a few years ago and they were paying someone £80 a week. I doubt very much we're doing that.
I don't think we can expect to compete against Chelsea. But we should have been able to compete against Fulham for instance who were able to bring through players like Sessegnon, Carvalho and Patrick Roberts. Hopefully the new training ground should make a difference as they'll all be on the same pitches and they'll be able to see the first team train and imagine the pathway there. |  | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 10:02 - Sep 11 with 1686 views | DannytheR |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 08:03 - Sep 11 by nix |
Their training ground is ridiculous. It's absolutely massive and I can imagine is very impressive to those parents with pound signs in their eyes. They have pitches that replicates the dimensions of every Premiership ground that they practise on between games.
Also I was told that they actually pay the top eight and nine year olds to play for them. This was a few years ago and they were paying someone £80 a week. I doubt very much we're doing that.
I don't think we can expect to compete against Chelsea. But we should have been able to compete against Fulham for instance who were able to bring through players like Sessegnon, Carvalho and Patrick Roberts. Hopefully the new training ground should make a difference as they'll all be on the same pitches and they'll be able to see the first team train and imagine the pathway there. |
You're right, but we gave Fulham a 20 year head start. They transformed their Academy under Tigana while we were passing round collection buckets.
I think lot of it is definitely down to facilities - but it's also down to getting a virtuous circle going of successful kids coming through that in turn attracts more of them, and creating an awareness of the club as an option among the parents of talented local kids.
In my experience there's very little of that even now. My boy's just finished secondary school on North End Road - they play in the "QPR League" and half the kids come from W12 but people are desperate to get their sons into the Fulham set-up. Rangers don't really even come up in conversation.
Could the club do more now? Probably. But a big part of the problem is that Rangers totally neglected their connections with the local area for donkey's years. That actually got worse through the 00s - it wasn't like Briatore and Ecclestone were going to make any efforts to nurture the club's links with schools in west London.
Made me think about it when we signed Taylor Richards. Grew up in the Bush, went to his first game at LR in a replica shirt and ended up at age nine at... Fulham.
I honestly don't know enough about what Paul Hall and the others are doing to know how well they're doing it, but I do know they've walked into a massive historical problem. And in many ways as we've discovered, it's a lot harder and more long-term a problem to fix than getting success for the first team, which in theory you can do pretty straightforwardly with the right manager and enough budget. [Post edited 11 Sep 2022 10:02]
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| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 13:32 - Sep 11 with 1597 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 07:03 - Sep 11 by StreathamRanger |
I have a few friends with kids at different academies in South London (Charlton, Fulham, Palace). Charlton's academy seems to be punching above their first team's league position. They seem to win as many as they lose against bigger clubs academies like Palace and Fulham. The QPR academy rarely seems to register when they're talking about good teams they've come up against.
My son's team played in a tournament a few weeks back. We were totally out of our depth as there were teams with academy boys in them and they ran rings round us. One team stood out and they were made up mainly of boys from Chelsea's academy. My son plays under 11. Some of the boys from Chelsea were only 8 yet their level was astonishing. Apparently, one of the kids has been given a seven year contract aged 9 as he's wanted by every top club in the country.
Hopefully our new facilities will enable us to be more competitive when it comes to attracting top young talent. It's going to be very hard though as there is serious competition. |
One of the many fascinating things I find about football is the levels and fine lines between them.
Was AR for a school match at Harrow last season - 1st team - so the 17/18 year olds - they are one of the best school teams in the country.
They played Aldenham School who were different level - even the Harrow masters were saying they played like no other school team they had ever seen - reason was the side contained Arsenal and Tottenham academy players. | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 14:05 - Sep 11 with 1551 views | StreathamRanger |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 13:32 - Sep 11 by PinnerPaul |
One of the many fascinating things I find about football is the levels and fine lines between them.
Was AR for a school match at Harrow last season - 1st team - so the 17/18 year olds - they are one of the best school teams in the country.
They played Aldenham School who were different level - even the Harrow masters were saying they played like no other school team they had ever seen - reason was the side contained Arsenal and Tottenham academy players. |
The footballing education these academy boys receive is incredible. Their shape, discipline and how they work for each other is something to behold. What it made me realise was that even the players us fans assume are average players, like Dom Ball for instance, must have been phenomenal as youngsters given how few actually make it as professionals. You don't get a professional contract if you're shit at football. Even Dykes and Hamaleinen would make mugs of us mere mortals. | | | |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 14:17 - Sep 11 with 1539 views | terryb |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 13:32 - Sep 11 by PinnerPaul |
One of the many fascinating things I find about football is the levels and fine lines between them.
Was AR for a school match at Harrow last season - 1st team - so the 17/18 year olds - they are one of the best school teams in the country.
They played Aldenham School who were different level - even the Harrow masters were saying they played like no other school team they had ever seen - reason was the side contained Arsenal and Tottenham academy players. |
According to the Dom Ball book & boys that I knew that were with Ipswich, academy players are not allowed to play for any other sides including their schools. Perhaps this only applies if their parents have signed a contract? Or that they could now play for their school as they had been released from Arsenal etc?
It would also come as a surprise that there were a lot of academy players that were attending a private/public fee paying school, unless the clubs are paying the school fees. I think the Harrow masters may have been exagerating! [Post edited 11 Sep 2022 14:21]
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| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 14:30 - Sep 11 with 1513 views | Northernr |
| QPR Academy in Dominic Balls book.... on 14:17 - Sep 11 by terryb |
According to the Dom Ball book & boys that I knew that were with Ipswich, academy players are not allowed to play for any other sides including their schools. Perhaps this only applies if their parents have signed a contract? Or that they could now play for their school as they had been released from Arsenal etc?
It would also come as a surprise that there were a lot of academy players that were attending a private/public fee paying school, unless the clubs are paying the school fees. I think the Harrow masters may have been exagerating! [Post edited 11 Sep 2022 14:21]
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Yeh that's true, been true a long time. Even when I was at secondary school we had Nathan Jarman who got signed by Scunny and had a half decent lower league career, and David Mirfin who signed for Huddersfield and likewise - and they had to sit everything out. weren't even allowed to play football at break time. Nonsense really. |  | | |
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