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I just wondering like you do , obviously I know innocent until proven guilty but if an ex QPR superstar such as Stan Bowles, Gerry Francis, Ray Wilkins or Les Ferdinand.
What would the common view of them be, if they had as much mud around them as Ryan Giggs is facing.
Ie we do know already he and his brothers wife were having an affair for many years and we all know footballers could be open to women exploiting them also, but it doesn't look great for him.
Obviously already know there has been dubious moral standards already but he really was as a player,an absolute superstar for that club.
It's difficult to totally judge if any our cult heroes were dodgy individuals but if they were, would it tarnish your views of them.
I not personally read what your average Man Utd fan thinks regards this and personally myself although I totally would be against a lot of the types behaviour etc, I personally not sure how I would feel if they were an ex qpr cult hero.
We had people of dubious intent ie joey Barton for one but he in no way an ex QPR superstar.
Just wondering how people think they would judge or think if this happened to one of our own.
I’m not going to comment about Ryan’s current court case as I don’t know enough about it.
Part of the problem with him is that as a player he was presented as a squeaky clean personality so when the accusations about his brother’s wife surfaced it came as a surprise, certainly to me.
Whereas with someone like Stan Bowles his gambling, drinking , playboy lifestyle where never hidden and are almost legendary.
If this were to happen to say Andy Sinton? I honestly don’t know how I’d react.
Yes bowles probably wasn't the greatest in his everyday life.
And guess he could well have been in a position that Giggs in now. Ie on those days was seen as being bit of a lad and today more frowned upon by media, social media and society as it is now.
Maybe ferguson knew giggs character so wasn't required for media interviews for that reason perhaps.
Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 10:55 - Oct 9 by numptydumpty
Yes bowles probably wasn't the greatest in his everyday life.
And guess he could well have been in a position that Giggs in now. Ie on those days was seen as being bit of a lad and today more frowned upon by media, social media and society as it is now.
Maybe ferguson knew giggs character so wasn't required for media interviews for that reason perhaps.
Good point.
I think the answer to that very thought-provoking question lies in the way we treat the current misdemeanours of popular and unpopular players. You only have to see how Kane was hammered versus how Charlie's were brushed under the carpet. It is very difficult to separate the misdemeanour from the public perception. As you say, Giggs was rightly revered for being a top, top player. But even then he was behaving despicably towards his own brother. If that was known at the time (publicly) would anyone care or was he just being a bit of a 'lad'? Since time began, wealthy/influential people have been getting away with crimes that ordinary 'five-eights' would be banged up for.
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Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 12:51 - Oct 9 with 3906 views
I don’t know what others thought, but the impression I came away with after reading Stan’s autobiography was, Hmm, so he was actually a bit of an arsehole. The bothering of Ron Phillips (IIRC) for win bonuses before a game, for example. He was never a boozer, though, that was just lazy media stereotyping.
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Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 13:26 - Oct 9 with 3837 views
I don’t know what others thought, but the impression I came away with after reading Stan’s autobiography was, Hmm, so he was actually a bit of an arsehole. The bothering of Ron Phillips (IIRC) for win bonuses before a game, for example. He was never a boozer, though, that was just lazy media stereotyping.
I still haven’t read his autobiography although I do have a copy. It comes as no surprise to hear he was a an arsehole off the pitch. In fact he looked like he was a bit of an arsehole on the pitch at times.
Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 13:26 - Oct 9 by CliveWilsonSaid
I still haven’t read his autobiography although I do have a copy. It comes as no surprise to hear he was a an arsehole off the pitch. In fact he looked like he was a bit of an arsehole on the pitch at times.
I'm not sure I particularly agree with some of the Saint Stan wing of our fan base. I wouldn't vilify either but I don't see him as a heroic figure.
But Giggs doesn't seem to be in the same category, of having demons, he just has a massive ego. I don't see how anyone can defend having an affair with your brother's wife for seven years, while still married to your own wife. It takes betrayal to a new level.
As for the coercive control allegations, it sounds like there should be a lot of evidence if it's true that he followed his ex to work, to the gym, etc and subjected her to excessive messaging, some of which was threatening in nature.
Put it this way, I wouldn't want players like that playing for the club, if it proves true, even if they are talented.
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Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 14:19 - Oct 9 with 3751 views
Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 13:54 - Oct 9 by nix
I'm not sure I particularly agree with some of the Saint Stan wing of our fan base. I wouldn't vilify either but I don't see him as a heroic figure.
But Giggs doesn't seem to be in the same category, of having demons, he just has a massive ego. I don't see how anyone can defend having an affair with your brother's wife for seven years, while still married to your own wife. It takes betrayal to a new level.
As for the coercive control allegations, it sounds like there should be a lot of evidence if it's true that he followed his ex to work, to the gym, etc and subjected her to excessive messaging, some of which was threatening in nature.
Put it this way, I wouldn't want players like that playing for the club, if it proves true, even if they are talented.
You don't see the most revered player in our club's history as a heroic figure? Winston Churchill had the odd weakpoint too in his personal and professional life. I've read Stan's autobiography and he certainly does not clome out of it as some kind of Bartonesque arsehole.
[Post edited 9 Oct 2021 14:25]
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
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Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 17:51 - Oct 9 with 3555 views
Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 14:19 - Oct 9 by 18StoneOfHoop
You don't see the most revered player in our club's history as a heroic figure? Winston Churchill had the odd weakpoint too in his personal and professional life. I've read Stan's autobiography and he certainly does not clome out of it as some kind of Bartonesque arsehole.
[Post edited 9 Oct 2021 14:25]
Um no, sorry. Amazing footballer, yes, heroic, no.
I don't think you can compare Bowles to Churchill.
There are others that are revered that I don't personally revere, for example, Mother Teresa was a flawed figure, who I wouldn't necessarily described as heroic.
I definitely don't think I have to revere someone because other people do.
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Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 19:23 - Oct 9 with 3480 views
Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 19:23 - Oct 9 by GloryHunter
This is a re-run of the argument about can you separate the man from the art. Like is it OK to listen to Wagner's music? Or Michael Jackson's music?
[Post edited 9 Oct 2021 19:59]
On a brighter note that notorious young girl abuser/manipulator scum bag R Kelly appears to be finally finished as a free man after 25+ years . How many girls were abused because Parents got paid off or police were paid off its beyond revolting . As for Whacko Jacko I sat through Leaving Neverland and wanted to throw up at the end. This thread is fascinating because the times have changed so much in 50 years it might as well be 1000 years. Stan The Man would really struggle in todays cell phone video era as would most of the Athletes from by gone times . It is for the best IMO but separating Art from Artists is a constant battle be it sports ,music,movies or any walk of life
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Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 20:55 - Oct 9 with 3359 views
Trevor Sinclair make a fool of himself a few years ago. Convicted of drink driving, urinating in a police car and then calling an officer a white c**t. After reading about that I remember feeling really let down for someone whom I really looked up to when I was still a young lad in the 90s.
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Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 23:13 - Oct 9 with 3239 views
Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 17:51 - Oct 9 by nix
Um no, sorry. Amazing footballer, yes, heroic, no.
I don't think you can compare Bowles to Churchill.
There are others that are revered that I don't personally revere, for example, Mother Teresa was a flawed figure, who I wouldn't necessarily described as heroic.
I definitely don't think I have to revere someone because other people do.
"I don't think you can compare Bowles to Churchill."
I agree. Churchill was a defender.
Suffering since 1978.
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Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 08:15 - Oct 10 with 3040 views
Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 14:19 - Oct 9 by 18StoneOfHoop
You don't see the most revered player in our club's history as a heroic figure? Winston Churchill had the odd weakpoint too in his personal and professional life. I've read Stan's autobiography and he certainly does not clome out of it as some kind of Bartonesque arsehole.
[Post edited 9 Oct 2021 14:25]
"Winston Churchill had the odd weakpoint too in his personal and professional life."
Wait! Hold it! Have we closed the Understatement of the Year Competition?
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 08:15 - Oct 10 by BrianMcCarthy
"Winston Churchill had the odd weakpoint too in his personal and professional life."
Wait! Hold it! Have we closed the Understatement of the Year Competition?
oh, modern, deconstructionism never misses an opportunity, does it? He was a man of his class and time who galvanised the world to resist the scourge of fascism. And he won loads of caps for Wales. really, how has a thread on Giggs become a critique of Churchill? For the love of god, leave us with something to aspire to that isn't the accumulation of wealth or vacuous celebrity. I can revere Churchill, the Cable Street Heroes, Alfred the great, Frankie Stubbs, Justin Sullivan, William Morris, Beth Chatto, Chris Ramsey, Wat Tyler and John Ball, the Tolpuddle Martyrs and a thousand more that came before us and made us what we are , and be comfortable with the contradiction.
Brian, this isn't meant as an attack on you, you're one of the best, just grouchy and emotional after a night celebrating the life and trying to understand the sudden death of a fellow traveller.
And really fed up with deconstructionism! And Monty Don. And I better not drive anywhere today.
"Mammon is a greedy master, leaves no room for any other"
[Post edited 10 Oct 2021 11:02]
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Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 15:49 - Oct 10 with 2767 views
Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 10:59 - Oct 10 by distortR
oh, modern, deconstructionism never misses an opportunity, does it? He was a man of his class and time who galvanised the world to resist the scourge of fascism. And he won loads of caps for Wales. really, how has a thread on Giggs become a critique of Churchill? For the love of god, leave us with something to aspire to that isn't the accumulation of wealth or vacuous celebrity. I can revere Churchill, the Cable Street Heroes, Alfred the great, Frankie Stubbs, Justin Sullivan, William Morris, Beth Chatto, Chris Ramsey, Wat Tyler and John Ball, the Tolpuddle Martyrs and a thousand more that came before us and made us what we are , and be comfortable with the contradiction.
Brian, this isn't meant as an attack on you, you're one of the best, just grouchy and emotional after a night celebrating the life and trying to understand the sudden death of a fellow traveller.
And really fed up with deconstructionism! And Monty Don. And I better not drive anywhere today.
"Mammon is a greedy master, leaves no room for any other"
[Post edited 10 Oct 2021 11:02]
Ok, my friend.
Sunday's not a day for it.
Sorry to hear of your loss, and hope the head and heart heal x
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 15:49 - Oct 10 by BrianMcCarthy
Ok, my friend.
Sunday's not a day for it.
Sorry to hear of your loss, and hope the head and heart heal x
apologies Brian, my ill-humour was looking for a target. Although i stand by my point, your comment didn't deserve that reaction. Thanks for the empathy
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Ryan Giggs - Man Utd Fans View on 18:36 - Oct 10 with 2625 views
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