| Freeman to the blades 14:32 - Jun 21 with 40044 views | Gloucs_R |
For just £4m???
Surely we'd not let him go that cheaply |  |
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| Freeman to the blades on 22:23 - Jun 23 with 3135 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Freeman to the blades on 21:20 - Jun 23 by blacky2013 |
Read the post dick. I said agent. But the skills are transferable and I think he knows more than most of you on here about negotiating contracts and clauses. Wind your neck in and read the post properly. |
What type of agent is your special friend then? Estate Agent? Secret Agent? Special Agent? Theatrical Agent?
If he's not a FOOTBALL agent then he will know feck all about the intricacies of football contracts and minimal release clauses. Don't be so gullible, and think a bit more before posting stuff. |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 22:23 - Jun 23 with 3133 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Freeman to the blades on 22:11 - Jun 23 by PunteR |
Well they could start with not having to pay 2 managers at the start of every season. |
Not this year we bloody can't, but yeah I'd be in favour of it.
Perhaps we should remember this point when people are baying for Warburton to be sacked. |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 23:02 - Jun 23 with 3015 views | davman |
| Freeman to the blades on 13:33 - Jun 23 by Benny_the_Ball |
This is exactly the kind of mindset that makes QPR such poor negotiators and an easy touch. It's the same for all clubs but others (e.g. Brentford) manage to secure great deals whilst QPR virtually give players away.
You're seriously deluded if you believe that Freeman signed a contract extension to help the club out. No agent would allow that; he did what was best for him at the time.
As for Luke deserving a move, we're a business not a charity. I don't see players who perform badly ripping up their contracts because the club deserve it so why should it work the other way? The Football League certainly didn't take players' feelings and aspirations into account when they calculated FFP.
Football League: You've breached FFP rules by exceeding the maximum losses permissable over 3 years. What do you have to say for yourself?
QPR: Well, technically that's true but there are extenuating circumstances. We let our best players go cheaply because, bless 'em, they performed well and deserved a big money move. Had we sold at market rate, sure we would have complied with FFP rules but that would've hurt the players' feelings.
Football League: That was awfully decent of you. In that case, appeal upheld and fine overturned. |
My "mindset" is irrelevant here; you may have actually realised I don't work for QPR.
To use your phrase: You are "seriously deluded" if you think that you or I have any clue why Freeman signed a new contract. Yes, he probably got a little more wedge, but in signing it, he definetly helped the club out. It don't work just one way you know - he got something, the club got something.
Yep, we are a business, so what you should be focusing on is whether you are confident enough to play your hardball and hold out for, what, a couple of million more or get nothing if they don't want to pay what you want. Togh one, isn't it? Not sure you would be so blaise if it were your money...
What the hell are the last three paragraphs on about?
Just to be clear. Like Smithies, Freeman is only "worth" what someone will pay. If that doesn't match our valuation, but taking it gives us a chance of not breaching P&S rules, we have no choice whether you like it or not.
Out of interest, what do YOU think he is worth? |  |
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| Freeman to the blades on 23:28 - Jun 23 with 2958 views | daveB |
| Freeman to the blades on 22:01 - Jun 23 by QPR_John |
Point is why prolong the agony. We cannot sell a player every year for £4M but maybe selling a player for £10M every two to three years is possible. What happens the year we have not got a player worth £4M do we fail FFP |
depends on the wage bill next year etc but would imagine we will need to sell a player every year which is why it is vital we develop the likes of Eze, bright, Smyth, Chair etc
I don't think we should accept any offer for Freeman but if we get an offer of 6 million or higher the club cant turn it down |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 23:30 - Jun 23 with 2955 views | PunteR |
| Freeman to the blades on 23:02 - Jun 23 by davman |
My "mindset" is irrelevant here; you may have actually realised I don't work for QPR.
To use your phrase: You are "seriously deluded" if you think that you or I have any clue why Freeman signed a new contract. Yes, he probably got a little more wedge, but in signing it, he definetly helped the club out. It don't work just one way you know - he got something, the club got something.
Yep, we are a business, so what you should be focusing on is whether you are confident enough to play your hardball and hold out for, what, a couple of million more or get nothing if they don't want to pay what you want. Togh one, isn't it? Not sure you would be so blaise if it were your money...
What the hell are the last three paragraphs on about?
Just to be clear. Like Smithies, Freeman is only "worth" what someone will pay. If that doesn't match our valuation, but taking it gives us a chance of not breaching P&S rules, we have no choice whether you like it or not.
Out of interest, what do YOU think he is worth? |
What is he worth? He was our best player last season by a country mile. Arguably kept us in the Championship plus entertaining us in the process. What do you think he's worth?
Lets all just throw numbers about.
Its bollox.
Personally i wouldn't even sell him at £8 mill. And get what ? 3 players from Scotland? |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Freeman to the blades on 01:00 - Jun 24 with 2861 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Freeman to the blades on 23:02 - Jun 23 by davman |
My "mindset" is irrelevant here; you may have actually realised I don't work for QPR.
To use your phrase: You are "seriously deluded" if you think that you or I have any clue why Freeman signed a new contract. Yes, he probably got a little more wedge, but in signing it, he definetly helped the club out. It don't work just one way you know - he got something, the club got something.
Yep, we are a business, so what you should be focusing on is whether you are confident enough to play your hardball and hold out for, what, a couple of million more or get nothing if they don't want to pay what you want. Togh one, isn't it? Not sure you would be so blaise if it were your money...
What the hell are the last three paragraphs on about?
Just to be clear. Like Smithies, Freeman is only "worth" what someone will pay. If that doesn't match our valuation, but taking it gives us a chance of not breaching P&S rules, we have no choice whether you like it or not.
Out of interest, what do YOU think he is worth? |
Mindset is relevant because clubs are making derisory offers based on what they think QPR will accept rather than what the player is worth. This will continue until QPR break the cycle by holding their nerve and actually negotiating rather than accepting initial offers.
The club has recently demonstrated a positive change in mindset and approach with respect to the recruitment process that lead to Warburton's appointment and has surprised us all with some early business in the transfer market. One can only hope they continue this improvement by demonstrating some stomach for negotiation when it comes to payer sales. [Post edited 24 Jun 2019 1:01]
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| Freeman to the blades on 01:21 - Jun 24 with 2841 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Freeman to the blades on 19:03 - Jun 23 by terryb |
" There are 3 clubs (Leeds, 'Boro and Sheffield United) interested in signing him this summer. These are excellent conditions for QPR to encourage a bidding war."
I maybe wrong, but I can't recall reading of any interest from Leeds or 'boro this summer. There certainly was last summer & perhaps in January, but that doesn't mean that they are still interested.
I also can't recall any club coming close to offering the £8 million that you are waiting for.
Hopefully there will be more than one club wanting Luke Freeman & hopefully we will receive £8 million minimum. It can't be taken fot granted though! |
It's not difficult to find. Here's some examples:
http://londonfootballnews.co.uk/qpr/sheffield-united-leeds-united-and-middlesbro
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leeds-united-luke-fre
As for the price, you're missing the point. I'm not waiting for £8 million; I'm suggesting that we counter initial offers with a view to getting more money. Obviously this assumes no release clause exists or the release clause is higher than the initial offer. | | | |
| Freeman to the blades (n/t) on 01:22 - Jun 24 with 2840 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Freeman to the blades on 17:08 - Jun 23 by Ned_Kennedys |
Oh you've got a friend who is a football agent? In which case whatever you say must be correct then.
Or perhaps you know just as much as anyone else on here. Wind your neck in. |
[Post edited 24 Jun 2019 1:46]
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| Freeman to the blades on 01:33 - Jun 24 with 2833 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Freeman to the blades on 19:58 - Jun 23 by Hunterhoop |
Utter nonsense. “Guts” that metaphorical term for what?
I completely agree we want a bidding war. If there is, the price will start high and rise; great.
But if there isn’t, and we only get a bid or two around £4-6m, what are we to do? Say no, and fail FFP, potentially incurring a whopping fine (repeat offenders) or points deduction, both endangering the long term future of the club? Or accept the offer?
That’s what having little leverage means. We are in a corner. A bidding war is our hope, but we don’t control of there is one; the market does.
Guts are irrelevant. |
Poppycock. You may feel boxed into a corner and lack guts for hard negotiation but I don't share your pessimism and neither should the club.
The market that you're so fond of quoting is the same market that all clubs operate under. The constraints (FFP, player demands, contract lengths, etc) also apply to most, if not all, clubs in our division. Yet somehow clubs with no more leverage than QPR consistently negotiate higher fees for their players than QPR do despite operating in the same market under the same constraints. Guts comes into that.
The irony is that whilst Sheffield United are waving a paltry £4 million under QPR's noses for Luke Freeman, QPR are being linked with a loan for Scott Hogan who Brentford managed to sell to a relegated Aston Villa for £9.25 million. [Post edited 24 Jun 2019 1:41]
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| Freeman to the blades on 01:38 - Jun 24 with 2829 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Freeman to the blades on 21:52 - Jun 23 by daveB |
doesn't matter how rich our owners are, as Hunter said if we say no to 5-6 million we risk failing FFP and facing a points deduction next season |
But it's not £5-6 million. The offer is 4 and we'd still risk failing FFP if we accept it. The only caveat I'm willing to accept is if there is a release clause of £4 million. If not, they want something we have; let's negotiate. | | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 01:46 - Jun 24 with 2806 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Freeman to the blades on 15:26 - Jun 23 by PunteR |
Agree. Freeman is an excellent player, so was Smithies. That should be leverage in negotiations in itself. If we keep undervaluing these types of players ie our best ones how can we command decent prices for any of our players? Considering we want to now be a selling club we're at risk of dropping the stock of all our players aren't we?. |
This is a great point that some appear to be missing.
There is no point in QPR embarking on a new strategy of developing youngsters and uncovering rough diamonds if ultimately they are going to sell them on cheaply. This strategy will only work if they learn to negotiate player sales properly. | | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 01:47 - Jun 24 with 2798 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Freeman to the blades on 18:43 - Jun 23 by daveB |
Freeman is a good player but if you are not a QPR fan then this is a player who struggled to get into a good Bristol City side and hasn't finished above 16th since joining QPR, if we get 6 million for him we've done well imo
Any scout who watched him in the last 10 games of last season wouldn't be recommending him. |
Really? Well Leeds are one of the clubs allegedly interested and he tore them a new arrsehole single handed. | | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 01:50 - Jun 24 with 2792 views | Colinr |
Wow 5 pages of bashing the board for accepting an offer which has not happened yet. When's the season start :-) | | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 08:16 - Jun 24 with 2619 views | terryb |
Actually, those reports state are that Middlersbrough tried to sign him last season (with a different manager) & that Leeds like him.
It is pure speculation that they are interested in making an offer for him now. Please show me one report that sugests they have made an offer this summer. | | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 08:37 - Jun 24 with 2569 views | davman |
| Freeman to the blades on 01:00 - Jun 24 by Benny_the_Ball |
Mindset is relevant because clubs are making derisory offers based on what they think QPR will accept rather than what the player is worth. This will continue until QPR break the cycle by holding their nerve and actually negotiating rather than accepting initial offers.
The club has recently demonstrated a positive change in mindset and approach with respect to the recruitment process that lead to Warburton's appointment and has surprised us all with some early business in the transfer market. One can only hope they continue this improvement by demonstrating some stomach for negotiation when it comes to payer sales. [Post edited 24 Jun 2019 1:01]
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Can't argue with much of that, but the fact neither of us can skirt around is the fact that the club needs some income from player sales and £4-5m is likely to be viewed as better than nothing.
A shame, but that is what the Supermarket Trolley dash under Hughes and Redknapp did for us.
What a missed opportunity... | |
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| Freeman to the blades on 08:49 - Jun 24 with 2545 views | Hunterhoop |
| Freeman to the blades on 01:33 - Jun 24 by Benny_the_Ball |
Poppycock. You may feel boxed into a corner and lack guts for hard negotiation but I don't share your pessimism and neither should the club.
The market that you're so fond of quoting is the same market that all clubs operate under. The constraints (FFP, player demands, contract lengths, etc) also apply to most, if not all, clubs in our division. Yet somehow clubs with no more leverage than QPR consistently negotiate higher fees for their players than QPR do despite operating in the same market under the same constraints. Guts comes into that.
The irony is that whilst Sheffield United are waving a paltry £4 million under QPR's noses for Luke Freeman, QPR are being linked with a loan for Scott Hogan who Brentford managed to sell to a relegated Aston Villa for £9.25 million. [Post edited 24 Jun 2019 1:41]
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Aston Villa’s revenue in their first season relegated versus our forecast revenue for this coming season are entirely different things!! For a start there would be a £40m parachute payment difference.
And on the selling club’s side Brentford have never been close to missing the rolling £39m year loss figure. So there’s absolutely no pressure to sell. They don’t have to. They do because it’s their successful business model that keeps them a long way from being in danger of the £39m.
QPR, ever since Redknapp rocked up, especially that Promotion season, have spent so far beyond our revenue, since we were relegated we’ve been in constant danger of missing that rolling £39m. EVERY OTHER CLUB KNOWS THIS. So do agents. Just because our fan base doesn’t want to face up to reality or look at the details because “we’re not chartered accountants”, doesn’t mean it’s not true.
When every one you negotiate with knows you can’t hold out like Brentford can, because we have the wolf at the door, you have less leverage.
I’d love the club to sell Freeman for £10+m, and should there actually be multiple clubs desperate to have him, and he has no automatic release clause at which level we must accept offers, i’m sure the board will obtain a good price by simply playing clubs offer against each other. Nothing to do with guts, just basic intelligence. But you can’t magic up interest. It may not be there. We all though Smithies was great, myself included, but we still only received one offer!
After this season, I think we can and will become able to say “no”, or hold out for more over a 12 month period. IF we can get through this season losing only £11-12m (with £12m less revenue), we will have hopefully corrected the ship. Then we can operating in a manner where we’re no longer forced to sell to not breach FFP.
When you’re forced to sell, you can’t hold out because the other parties know the end game for you not selling is points deduction, fines and likely relegation. For them the end game of us not selling is they go buy another player. Surely you can see where the leverage lies?! |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 10:11 - Jun 24 with 2370 views | GroveR |
| Freeman to the blades on 01:33 - Jun 24 by Benny_the_Ball |
Poppycock. You may feel boxed into a corner and lack guts for hard negotiation but I don't share your pessimism and neither should the club.
The market that you're so fond of quoting is the same market that all clubs operate under. The constraints (FFP, player demands, contract lengths, etc) also apply to most, if not all, clubs in our division. Yet somehow clubs with no more leverage than QPR consistently negotiate higher fees for their players than QPR do despite operating in the same market under the same constraints. Guts comes into that.
The irony is that whilst Sheffield United are waving a paltry £4 million under QPR's noses for Luke Freeman, QPR are being linked with a loan for Scott Hogan who Brentford managed to sell to a relegated Aston Villa for £9.25 million. [Post edited 24 Jun 2019 1:41]
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"Yet somehow clubs with no more leverage than QPR consistently negotiate higher fees for their players than QPR do despite operating in the same market under the same constraints. Guts comes into that."
Those clubs have players other clubs want to buy. They recruit intelligently, develop and profit. We don't. That's not guts, that's rank mismanagement. |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 10:53 - Jun 24 with 2240 views | BlackCrowe |
| Freeman to the blades on 21:20 - Jun 23 by blacky2013 |
Read the post dick. I said agent. But the skills are transferable and I think he knows more than most of you on here about negotiating contracts and clauses. Wind your neck in and read the post properly. |
Blimey, you're a charmer. |  |
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| Freeman to the blades on 10:55 - Jun 24 with 2226 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Freeman to the blades on 10:11 - Jun 24 by GroveR |
"Yet somehow clubs with no more leverage than QPR consistently negotiate higher fees for their players than QPR do despite operating in the same market under the same constraints. Guts comes into that."
Those clubs have players other clubs want to buy. They recruit intelligently, develop and profit. We don't. That's not guts, that's rank mismanagement. |
We DO currently have a player who other clubs have expressed an interest in buying. Just the one though so we need to get the very best deal we can for him. If our shortfall for the season is £10 million and we only get £4 million for him then we will still fail FFP. We didn't give him away last summer so lets hope he hold our nerve again this summer. | | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 10:56 - Jun 24 with 2223 views | BAWHoops |
So 5 pages of moaning and it turns out we rejected the bid anyway and are after significantly more. |  |
| http://blogandwhitehoops.wordpress.com/ |
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| Freeman to the blades on 11:04 - Jun 24 with 2179 views | WrightUp5hit___ |
| Freeman to the blades on 10:56 - Jun 24 by BAWHoops |
So 5 pages of moaning and it turns out we rejected the bid anyway and are after significantly more. |
...higher than a number that none of us actually know |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 11:23 - Jun 24 with 2081 views | Tonto |
| Freeman to the blades on 10:56 - Jun 24 by BAWHoops |
So 5 pages of moaning and it turns out we rejected the bid anyway and are after significantly more. |
yeah but it doesn't fit onto the evil Les/Lee narrative, an we do like a whinge. |  |
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| Freeman to the blades on 11:34 - Jun 24 with 2021 views | peterlund_dk |
What fans think happens in the boardroom vs. what really happens in the boardroom:
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