| Accounts 17-18 on 18:56 - Apr 29 with 2491 views | IAN05 |
| Accounts 17-18 on 18:39 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
If we were still in the PL maybe none of them would be playing, with panic, caution and spending the order of the day. Many would have had to go elsewhere to restart their careers. Byers was likely to jump ship with his contract expiring and time pressing on.
Young players don't progress without help. It's not enough for a player to be good enough, a manager has to recognise that they're ready and be willing to take that risk. Like Laudrup did in giving Ben Davies his debut the game before Taylor's leg break. The cream can't always when the pressure is on immediate success.
The plan was to built a strong and successful u23s side that would be ready in the event of relegation. Millions were spent on players to that end. If we'd gone down a season earlier the players were there. And if we'd survived one more season they would be, too. But maybe not the same ones. |
It’s worked out well for us to an extent, no doubt some luck in there too (Grimes being one as we would have happily let him leave). Let’s not turn back time and claim this was some kind of strategy in case of relegation though. If it was it was incredibly risky (and still is) and had Grimes not changed miraculously and Dyer and Routs fail to find a move the story would likely have been so different. |  | |  |
| Accounts 17-18 on 19:01 - Apr 29 with 2487 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 18:56 - Apr 29 by IAN05 |
It’s worked out well for us to an extent, no doubt some luck in there too (Grimes being one as we would have happily let him leave). Let’s not turn back time and claim this was some kind of strategy in case of relegation though. If it was it was incredibly risky (and still is) and had Grimes not changed miraculously and Dyer and Routs fail to find a move the story would likely have been so different. |
Don't need to turn back time, just google it. The quotes should be there somewhere. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 19:06 - Apr 29 with 2485 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Accounts 17-18 on 18:39 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
If we were still in the PL maybe none of them would be playing, with panic, caution and spending the order of the day. Many would have had to go elsewhere to restart their careers. Byers was likely to jump ship with his contract expiring and time pressing on.
Young players don't progress without help. It's not enough for a player to be good enough, a manager has to recognise that they're ready and be willing to take that risk. Like Laudrup did in giving Ben Davies his debut the game before Taylor's leg break. The cream can't always when the pressure is on immediate success.
The plan was to built a strong and successful u23s side that would be ready in the event of relegation. Millions were spent on players to that end. If we'd gone down a season earlier the players were there. And if we'd survived one more season they would be, too. But maybe not the same ones. |
I fully agree on your second paragraph, a manager has to recognise youth talent and be willing to risk playing them.
For us, Warnock has failed to do that. As I said, understandable when at top of league and understandable in a relegation battle.
We have a massive disconnect at the moment, the u18s and DVP plaing a possession based game, first team giving up possession to focus on defendin and counter-attacking.
Longer term, we have to correct that - players coming through now are used to a different style of play. we've an aging backline and as much as I love Peltier defensively, Coxe seemed to me to be a more modern fullback, getting forward.
I think Warnock may well retire soon. If we relegate and he stays, well, he's excellent at getting teams out of the Champonship but I suspect we'd have the same problems with players not coming through. If he does stay, well, how many more years would he remain? We'd potentially sacrifice some good young players in the process. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 20:14 - Apr 29 with 2431 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:01 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
Connor, DJ and Adnan Maric (lol) played.
It's not luck to have bought and developed well, and to have a talented and successful crop ready to go in the event of relegation. That was a stated objective of the academy. There was a glass ceiling for opportunities to develop (Potter's words) in the PL due to the money being spent and size of the senior squads involved, but no lack of talent or competition within the ranks.
I said at the start of last season Roberts shouldn't have gone on loan to Boro, and should have stayed to be 2nd choice RB. Same with DJ in the second half of the season, when during our dire run-in Carvalhal was out of ideas and bringing on a struggling Routledge to try and rescue games. Our set pieces were awful with Clucas and Carroll on duty, while Byers was clocking goals and assists from dead balls in the u23s.
Is it lucky that so many have come good? Maybe it's unlucky that more haven't. Harries evidently not fancied. Biabi, Blair and King expensive flops. Lewis struggling at Doncaster despite his main positional rival going to prison. Cullen hasn't pushed on as early promise suggested. Maric proved me right. de Boer and Paulet unimpressive. |
Jasper - i love your posts and your are always a knowledgeable and interesting poster.
But i am calling you out.
The Academy went missing in action during our Premiership years.
Watched as we got relegated and contributed nothing - except laughable oversight of the 4-0 game an Anfield.
I bet the players you mention did not muster 10 full games between them.
I bet thats about £3m per appearance that the Academy cost us.
We invested in many players who did not make it.
Kenji, Rory, Zabret , and all the lads.
True some bought in ready made players like Grimes and Dan James have come good this year.
Lets not pretend we produced these players.
Great credit to Exeter and Hull Academies though ðŸ‘ðŸ‘.
I want more like Roberts and Rodon.
Lets demand more from the Academy. More hard work needed. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Accounts 17-18 on 20:29 - Apr 29 with 2419 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 20:14 - Apr 29 by Kilkennyjack |
Jasper - i love your posts and your are always a knowledgeable and interesting poster.
But i am calling you out.
The Academy went missing in action during our Premiership years.
Watched as we got relegated and contributed nothing - except laughable oversight of the 4-0 game an Anfield.
I bet the players you mention did not muster 10 full games between them.
I bet thats about £3m per appearance that the Academy cost us.
We invested in many players who did not make it.
Kenji, Rory, Zabret , and all the lads.
True some bought in ready made players like Grimes and Dan James have come good this year.
Lets not pretend we produced these players.
Great credit to Exeter and Hull Academies though ðŸ‘ðŸ‘.
I want more like Roberts and Rodon.
Lets demand more from the Academy. More hard work needed. |
The academy can't do more than watch if the first team aren't interested. Players were there. Chances almost non-existent. The system only works when a manager demands a young player, young players can't demand first team inclusion.
Even this season promoting Man City-target Dan James was second choice behind buying another academy's player, who was "proven" through a brief (and practically enforced) exposure to the Championship in a godawful side last season. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 20:56 - Apr 29 with 2396 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Accounts 17-18 on 20:29 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
The academy can't do more than watch if the first team aren't interested. Players were there. Chances almost non-existent. The system only works when a manager demands a young player, young players can't demand first team inclusion.
Even this season promoting Man City-target Dan James was second choice behind buying another academy's player, who was "proven" through a brief (and practically enforced) exposure to the Championship in a godawful side last season. |
Dan James asked Potter if he could go out on loan and he told him straight away he was a part of his plans here.
Asoro was a replacement for Dyer and Routledge who the club were actively trying to get rid of. |  | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 21:00 - Apr 29 with 2385 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 20:56 - Apr 29 by 34dfgdf54 |
Dan James asked Potter if he could go out on loan and he told him straight away he was a part of his plans here.
Asoro was a replacement for Dyer and Routledge who the club were actively trying to get rid of. |
And McKay. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 21:02 - Apr 29 with 2381 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Accounts 17-18 on 21:00 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
And McKay. |
Routledge and Dyer - McKay and Asoro
James was always in Potter’s plans. | | | |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 21:03 - Apr 29 with 2381 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 21:02 - Apr 29 by 34dfgdf54 |
Routledge and Dyer - McKay and Asoro
James was always in Potter’s plans. |
So second choice behind buying Asoro. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 21:13 - Apr 29 with 2369 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Accounts 17-18 on 21:03 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
So second choice behind buying Asoro. |
Negative | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 07:01 - May 2 with 2163 views | Vetchfielder |
| Accounts 17-18 on 09:40 - Apr 29 by Vetchfielder |
By the way, the only accounts published so far , and the ones referred to in the link, are those for the main operating company, Swansea City Association Football Club Limited.
The accounts for the parent Swansea City Football 2002 Limited have not yet been published on the companies house website.
I accept that there shouldn't be much difference between the two but there could be. |
The group accounts ARE now up.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04305508/filing-history |  |
| Proud to have been one of the 231 |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 09:48 - May 2 with 2086 views | Badlands |
I love a good fax! |  |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 10:46 - May 2 with 2063 views | BytholWyn |
In any discussion about the merits of the academy the starting point should be an acknowledgement that academies are long-term projects that will take a number of years to show a return on the investment. Considering the number of years we've had a Category One academy I would say that the Swans academy is, if anything, ahead of schedule, in producing talent for the first team.
The (belated in some people's eyes) success of the academy is reflected across English football. You only have to look at the plethora of young talent that's coming through across the Premier League and beyond to see that the academy system is now beginning to bear fruit. Sancho, Foden, Alexander-Arnold, Ampadu, James, Rodon, Mepham, Brooks - I could go on. The fact that there is such a surplus of young talent that it's being exported to other countries says it all.
Keeping the academy at Category One status should be the number one priority of the club. Is it too much to hope for long-term vision at our club? |  | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 10:56 - May 2 with 2053 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 10:46 - May 2 by BytholWyn |
In any discussion about the merits of the academy the starting point should be an acknowledgement that academies are long-term projects that will take a number of years to show a return on the investment. Considering the number of years we've had a Category One academy I would say that the Swans academy is, if anything, ahead of schedule, in producing talent for the first team.
The (belated in some people's eyes) success of the academy is reflected across English football. You only have to look at the plethora of young talent that's coming through across the Premier League and beyond to see that the academy system is now beginning to bear fruit. Sancho, Foden, Alexander-Arnold, Ampadu, James, Rodon, Mepham, Brooks - I could go on. The fact that there is such a surplus of young talent that it's being exported to other countries says it all.
Keeping the academy at Category One status should be the number one priority of the club. Is it too much to hope for long-term vision at our club? |
Mepham, Ampadu and Brooks didn't come through Cat One academies. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 12:46 - May 2 with 2014 views | Dr_Winston |
| Accounts 17-18 on 10:46 - May 2 by BytholWyn |
In any discussion about the merits of the academy the starting point should be an acknowledgement that academies are long-term projects that will take a number of years to show a return on the investment. Considering the number of years we've had a Category One academy I would say that the Swans academy is, if anything, ahead of schedule, in producing talent for the first team.
The (belated in some people's eyes) success of the academy is reflected across English football. You only have to look at the plethora of young talent that's coming through across the Premier League and beyond to see that the academy system is now beginning to bear fruit. Sancho, Foden, Alexander-Arnold, Ampadu, James, Rodon, Mepham, Brooks - I could go on. The fact that there is such a surplus of young talent that it's being exported to other countries says it all.
Keeping the academy at Category One status should be the number one priority of the club. Is it too much to hope for long-term vision at our club? |
Spot on. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 16:58 - May 2 with 1944 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Accounts 17-18 on 10:56 - May 2 by jasper_T |
Mepham, Ampadu and Brooks didn't come through Cat One academies. |
Spot on.
And you can add ....Jazz, Joey, Ben, Macca, Ledley , Gunts, and Rambo. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Accounts 17-18 on 17:04 - May 2 with 1934 views | valleyboy |
| Accounts 17-18 on 16:58 - May 2 by Kilkennyjack |
Spot on.
And you can add ....Jazz, Joey, Ben, Macca, Ledley , Gunts, and Rambo. |
You could add another 100 names to that list | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:57 - May 2 with 1884 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Accounts 17-18 on 16:58 - May 2 by Kilkennyjack |
Spot on.
And you can add ....Jazz, Joey, Ben, Macca, Ledley , Gunts, and Rambo. |
They still came through academies even if they were categories 2 and 3 | |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 19:05 - May 2 with 1863 views | valleyboy |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:57 - May 2 by felixstowe_jack |
They still came through academies even if they were categories 2 and 3 |
The big difference is that the running cost of Academy One status and the others is significant | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 19:51 - May 2 with 1827 views | waynekerr55 |
Not much talk about Gonzo trousering a 21k pay rise despite fúcking us... |  |
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| Accounts 17-18 on 19:56 - May 2 with 1822 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 17:57 - May 2 by felixstowe_jack |
They still came through academies even if they were categories 2 and 3 |
The current academy system didn't exist when most of them came through. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 23:35 - May 2 with 1762 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Accounts 17-18 on 19:56 - May 2 by jasper_T |
The current academy system didn't exist when most of them came through. |
So, by a very significant margin, we did better without it ...? 🤷â€â™‚ï¸
🎣 😂 | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Accounts 17-18 on 23:37 - May 2 with 1761 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Accounts 17-18 on 19:51 - May 2 by waynekerr55 |
Not much talk about Gonzo trousering a 21k pay rise despite fúcking us... |
He was the only man for the job, mun ... defo ... 100 percent ... maybe ? | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Accounts 17-18 on 01:26 - May 3 with 1740 views | jasper_T |
| Accounts 17-18 on 23:35 - May 2 by Kilkennyjack |
So, by a very significant margin, we did better without it ...? 🤷â€â™‚ï¸
🎣 😂 |
Time will tell but there's no basis for thinking Cat One has to be the "number one priority of the club". Players are emerging in British football from a variety of pathways, and as we're seeing this season the most significant ingredient is opportunity, not membership to the big spenders club. | | | |
| Accounts 17-18 on 07:06 - May 3 with 1676 views | glanmorjak |
Hugely difficult for most managers to give youngsters from the 23's their opportunity in the PL, unless of course they are of the quality of a young Wayne Rooney etc.
There are a number of avenues a club with limited financial budgets like the Swans(even in the PL days) can utilise but that depends entirely on another budget, this time for an accountable scouting department in recognising your Mepham's when they have been released. But the bottom line with the Swans was who had the final say in the matter regarding signing youngster, an enthusiastic amateur(Huw Jenkins.) Despite scouts pushing to sign Ampadu for £100k, Jenkins vetoed the decision.
During our PL seasons I would imagine that we had a budget of around £500k/ season to recruit youngsters from other clubs, and by and large most of them were failures, as far as making first team appearances are concerned. Fulton and Kingsley were a different calibre when compared to King, Blair and Biabi from Scotland while our recruitment that cost sizeable five/six figure transfer fees, Hurrell, Proctor, Obeng, Situ, Donnelly, Zabret, Demetriou, Maric,forgetting the fees paid to Cardiff for March and Smith plus better than average salary when enticing the likes of Meade from Arsenal.
Even though Oli had had first team experience at Bradford and non-leg Chester he can be claimed as a success for our scouting team as can Byers who was released by Watford, as recognition of their potential.
Would Graham Potter have been appointed if we were still in the PL, but there is no doubt that if he hadn't the latent talent of Mattie Grimes would not have been recognised and he would have been offloaded. | | | |
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