| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 19:10 - Mar 3 with 4326 views | meeee |
Yeah I can see it |  | |  |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 19:11 - Mar 3 with 4323 views | Cleedale |
If all's well and good...this was a bigger-than-expected project about 15 months ago. It shows the average position of all clubs in the Prem and EFL in 30 years, ie a snapshot. Plus the 30 year corresponding average attendance over that period. So gates and positions from 86/87 to 16/17.
Teams not in there could well be in the National League or beyond at that point in time but could still have gates and positions to have a position within these leagues. A few anomalies...Newport, Fleetwood, MK Dons AFCW etc. Some teams did not have complete records. |  | | |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 19:11 - Mar 3 with 4319 views | scarrow |
Can see it fine |  |
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| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 19:12 - Mar 3 with 4317 views | Cleedale |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 19:10 - Mar 3 by meeee |
Yeah I can see it |
Oh thanks for that Meeee, this simple task of sharing has been a nightmare. | | | |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 19:57 - Mar 3 with 4211 views | Shun |
Surprised Fleetwood are above us. In my footballing ignorance I believed this spell was their first ever as a league club. I thought the same about Burton and Forest Green! |  | | |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 20:25 - Mar 3 with 4143 views | TVOS1907 |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 19:57 - Mar 3 by Shun |
Surprised Fleetwood are above us. In my footballing ignorance I believed this spell was their first ever as a league club. I thought the same about Burton and Forest Green! |
It is!
Since they came into the league, Fleetwood have finished:
13th in League 2 (Dale 12th)
4th in League 2 (Dale 3rd)
10th in League 1 (Dale 8th)
19th in League 1 (Dale 10th)
4th in League 1 (Dale 9th)
14th in League 1 (Dale 20th)
So we've finished above Fleetwood four times in six seasons, but for most of the period covered by the table, we were in the bottom division, which has lowered our average finishing position compared to theirs.
As cleedale says, there are anomalies, one of them being different sized data sets for a number of clubs.
Burton's lower position has been affected by their two seasons in the Championship where they finished just outside and just inside the bottom three. So they were in a higher division, but finished near the bottom of it (i.e. in positions 20 & 23), which has counted against them in the averages - if I've understood it properly.
A better comparison would be a 1-92 position ranking. [Post edited 3 Mar 2019 20:29]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 20:30 - Mar 3 with 4113 views | 49thseason |
Interesting, it seems to support my theory that without fans paying to come through the doors in greater numbers we are a mid L2 club, L1 requiring 5-6000 to be mid table and Championship about double that 12 -15000 with another doubling for Premiership.
Money talks in this game... we have very little of it comparatively and therefore we are where we are. We enjoyed the upwards rise to L1 but the fall back to L2 is almost inevitable on financial grounds. Survival last year was a small miracle that I do not expect to be repeated and indeed may have cost us more in the long run than being relegated last season would have done. |  | | |
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| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 20:47 - Mar 3 with 4068 views | D_Alien |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 20:30 - Mar 3 by 49thseason |
Interesting, it seems to support my theory that without fans paying to come through the doors in greater numbers we are a mid L2 club, L1 requiring 5-6000 to be mid table and Championship about double that 12 -15000 with another doubling for Premiership.
Money talks in this game... we have very little of it comparatively and therefore we are where we are. We enjoyed the upwards rise to L1 but the fall back to L2 is almost inevitable on financial grounds. Survival last year was a small miracle that I do not expect to be repeated and indeed may have cost us more in the long run than being relegated last season would have done. |
And yet, recent initiatives on ST marketing might point in another direction - that the club, whilst ostensibly trying to increase numbers in the ground, have been inclined to view income through the turnstiles as secondary to income generated through player development and sales; and this has enabled the stadium to be re-acquired. This could in some ways also explain the apparent disdain towards fans from some quarters, i.e. just not viewed as being as significant to finances as we'd like to think we are
I'm not making a case in defence of that point of view. It's probably come to the stage that the club can't afford to put ST prices back to where they were three years ago (and the CEO said at the fan's forum that they'd be similarly priced next season as this), but can't afford not to try and recover income through the turnstiles when the supply of saleable talent dries up. The CEO also referred to alternative methods of financing, which remains to be seen... |  |
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| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 21:01 - Mar 3 with 4035 views | Shun |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 20:25 - Mar 3 by TVOS1907 |
It is!
Since they came into the league, Fleetwood have finished:
13th in League 2 (Dale 12th)
4th in League 2 (Dale 3rd)
10th in League 1 (Dale 8th)
19th in League 1 (Dale 10th)
4th in League 1 (Dale 9th)
14th in League 1 (Dale 20th)
So we've finished above Fleetwood four times in six seasons, but for most of the period covered by the table, we were in the bottom division, which has lowered our average finishing position compared to theirs.
As cleedale says, there are anomalies, one of them being different sized data sets for a number of clubs.
Burton's lower position has been affected by their two seasons in the Championship where they finished just outside and just inside the bottom three. So they were in a higher division, but finished near the bottom of it (i.e. in positions 20 & 23), which has counted against them in the averages - if I've understood it properly.
A better comparison would be a 1-92 position ranking. [Post edited 3 Mar 2019 20:29]
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Ah! I read it wrong then, I assumed it was done on their average positioning in the 92 as a whole, as you suggest would be better. | | | |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 21:15 - Mar 3 with 3998 views | TVOS1907 |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 21:01 - Mar 3 by Shun |
Ah! I read it wrong then, I assumed it was done on their average positioning in the 92 as a whole, as you suggest would be better. |
I think I've read it right, but happy to be told otherwise.
It seems to compute that finishing 23rd in the Championship is worse than finishing 1st in League One, as 23rd is lower than 1st.
Or summat like that! [Post edited 3 Mar 2019 21:15]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 21:45 - Mar 3 with 3954 views | pioneer |
If I am reading it correctly, which is a big if, it looks like we are the lowest placed of all teams who have had continuous membership of the FL over the 30 years covered | | | |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 21:54 - Mar 3 with 3936 views | Cleedale |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 21:15 - Mar 3 by TVOS1907 |
I think I've read it right, but happy to be told otherwise.
It seems to compute that finishing 23rd in the Championship is worse than finishing 1st in League One, as 23rd is lower than 1st.
Or summat like that! [Post edited 3 Mar 2019 21:15]
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Thanks btw. for pulling up the actual 'thing' TVOS. One day someone will show me the proper way to share things on forums.
A couple of things re-these figures etc. The actual league pyramid from Prem. to L2 - each place counts as a position. So, say 15th in the Championship would count as 35th overall and so on and that total then divided by 30 seasons. Most clubs, apart from a few anomalies, had 30 years of attendance stats; therefore same dividing. Also, some clubs coming back in the league have had their attendance in the National League added, (take grimsby tn.), and so finishing 10th in that league equated to 102nd. And some ex-league clubs 'might' be in that mix except they just weren't in @ about Dec. 2017.
Missing out 1973/74 to 86'ish was perhaps a godsend for The Dale - I think we averaged 19th in that whole period or 88th in that table.
Thanks again TVOS...now tell me again. I photocopy the artwork and bung it down the broadband cable...is that right? [Post edited 3 Mar 2019 21:55]
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| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 22:50 - Mar 3 with 3862 views | TVOS1907 |
| Could One or Two Let me know if this can be seen; thanks...then I'll explain on 21:54 - Mar 3 by Cleedale |
Thanks btw. for pulling up the actual 'thing' TVOS. One day someone will show me the proper way to share things on forums.
A couple of things re-these figures etc. The actual league pyramid from Prem. to L2 - each place counts as a position. So, say 15th in the Championship would count as 35th overall and so on and that total then divided by 30 seasons. Most clubs, apart from a few anomalies, had 30 years of attendance stats; therefore same dividing. Also, some clubs coming back in the league have had their attendance in the National League added, (take grimsby tn.), and so finishing 10th in that league equated to 102nd. And some ex-league clubs 'might' be in that mix except they just weren't in @ about Dec. 2017.
Missing out 1973/74 to 86'ish was perhaps a godsend for The Dale - I think we averaged 19th in that whole period or 88th in that table.
Thanks again TVOS...now tell me again. I photocopy the artwork and bung it down the broadband cable...is that right? [Post edited 3 Mar 2019 21:55]
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So given the way it's been calculated, how are Fleetwood above us and Burton below us? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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