| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 18:33 - Apr 28 with 16431 views | Swissdale |
Thread title is the story of our season, and the reason (despite us having a strong enough team for a mid-table finish) we will be relegated.
Baffling team selections, tactics and substitutions have been abundant throughout the season — but have come to their crescendo in the last few weeks. Can someone explain, in the most important matches of the season over the past two weeks, how Joe Thompson and Matthew Gillam have been given so much game time?
We’ve desperately needed (what should have been achievable) wins over the past 4 games, so why have we played them ALL without a striker?
We haven’t been able to hold onto a 1 goal lead all season, so why aren’t we carrying on taking the game to the opposition in search of that second goal?
The players have got a lot to answer for. Ian Henderson being sent off v Peterborough is criminal at such an important stage of the season, but there are so many examples of players making poor decisions / mistakes that have cost us points in this run in (Done v Pompey, Lillis v Bradford, Camps today).
I still believe Keith Hill is the man for the job, but this season has eroded a LOT of his goodwill. It seems to me something has changed in his mentality, and it’s playing out in the way he interviews, and the way his team is performing. Let’s hope a relegation will give him the kick up the backside he needs, and revert back to what we know is a winning formula — Disciplined, physically fit players who play positive attacking football. |  | | |  |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 11:36 - Apr 29 with 2692 views | 442Dale |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 10:57 - Apr 29 by nordenblue |
One things for sure when the going gets tough Hilly doesn't seem to have a clue how to turn things around,his time at Barnsley you'd have thought would maybe have helped him for this season,it seems the total opposite when results turn badly he's too stubborn to admit thing's aren't working and change it around quick enough. |
But things have been tough before and he has turned it round. 2010/11 we were hovering around the relegation zone at the turn of the year and we ended up pushing for the play-offs by the last few weeks. Similarly two years ago when we were in a really poor run of form, then Holt arrived and we turned it round.
This time we have seen the revival again unfortunately it was followed by another slump (7 points in last 7 games) when what worked was changed so much.
In those games we've seen a return to four at the back resulting in more goals being conceded, players appearing then disappearing, stupid choices by two captains and a lack of consistency in what we are doing. So yeah, Hill does have solutions to problems, it's why those haven't been seen that's the bigger question. |  |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 11:47 - Apr 29 with 2670 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 10:41 - Apr 29 by YouTubeDale |
I have been banging on for months now how Keith should be performing much better. The manager is all-important, if he performs well, then the team does well. And Keith has failed us this season. But his stubborness could be his downfall. He must get back to a positive way of playing and getting the team two goals in front, thus trying to avoid another draw.
I used to think the sun shone out of his arse, but the penny has finally dropped for me and I can see many of his weaknesses. For example, subs far too late yesterday YET AGAIN, and I could go on, and on with examples from yesterday.
Yes, individual errors costing us dearly, but a good manager can overcome these with good work elsewhere.
I am still not thinking of sacking Hill but boy he needs to change his ways. Perhaps that could begin on Saturday. |
The thing is I still think the sun shines out of his arse for all the success he has brought us. Hill is the best manager we have ever had and HAS over achieved year on year. You must remember for the younger fan apart from a few years of Barrow and Parkin and a brief hiatus of Coleman and Eyre Hill is all we have ever known. It’s been great to be a younger Dale fan. Without being overly sentimental Hill is a father like figure who can’t do any wrong. He’s the Alex Ferguson of Rochdale.And for the reasons stated above I think that’s why some posters take it as a personal insult when he is criticised.
We can be where we were at and we can play the type of football we have played in the past. It’s just this season there has been a massive change in mentality from the guy. His daft comments have really marked him out as a sort of bitter old man who can’t take criticism and someone who’s head as well and truely gone up its arse. And it has reflected in the style of negative football.
This season must be a learning curve for Hill and the club and they really need to ditch the bunker mentality and the team needs to get back to a bit of hard work and doing the basics right. Rochdale fans will tolerate a lot but they won’t tolerate people not putting a shift in. |  | | |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 11:51 - Apr 29 with 2657 views | TVOS1907 |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 11:47 - Apr 29 by rochdale_ranger |
The thing is I still think the sun shines out of his arse for all the success he has brought us. Hill is the best manager we have ever had and HAS over achieved year on year. You must remember for the younger fan apart from a few years of Barrow and Parkin and a brief hiatus of Coleman and Eyre Hill is all we have ever known. It’s been great to be a younger Dale fan. Without being overly sentimental Hill is a father like figure who can’t do any wrong. He’s the Alex Ferguson of Rochdale.And for the reasons stated above I think that’s why some posters take it as a personal insult when he is criticised.
We can be where we were at and we can play the type of football we have played in the past. It’s just this season there has been a massive change in mentality from the guy. His daft comments have really marked him out as a sort of bitter old man who can’t take criticism and someone who’s head as well and truely gone up its arse. And it has reflected in the style of negative football.
This season must be a learning curve for Hill and the club and they really need to ditch the bunker mentality and the team needs to get back to a bit of hard work and doing the basics right. Rochdale fans will tolerate a lot but they won’t tolerate people not putting a shift in. |
Have this season's comments been different to any other? He has made critical overtures towards fans in every season, as far as I can remember. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 13:06 - Apr 29 with 2527 views | tony_roch975 |
Agree with Shun's fair analysis of why the signings and with those who argue it's been a mixture of loss of better players, not having a natural striker, loss of form from some previously good performers, run of the ball, lack of consistency in formation/personnel and a continuing siege mentality which might appear noble and exciting when you're winning but looks egotistical and stubborn when you're not. Players only look as good as the quality of the teams they're playing in - Camps, Henderson et al haven't become 'pub footballers' cos we're threatened with relegation - nor were they worth a million when we were at the top; but nor were Lund and Allen (plenty observed what a non-impact Matt Lund had when we played Bradford & I've lost count of the number of times Jamie Allen was criticised for always playing sideways!) It's frustrating certainly - we're in the top 6 for chances created but they're are only so many Lambert/ Holt/ Murray /Dagnell/ Le Fondre/ Hogans out there willing to play for the money Dale pay. We need 2 massive slices of good fortune next Saturday - here's hoping. |  |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 13:15 - Apr 29 with 2510 views | TVOS1907 |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 00:15 - Apr 29 by DiddyDave |
This is so spot on. Isn`t it strange that the season after KH signs a five year deal we (probably) go down? He states he picks teams not to lose. What`s the bloody point in that? I think he`s been taking the piss all season for the reasons stated by RR and it`s an insult to all Dale fans and their hard earned that the Board have allowed this to happen. Back to the "Rochdale League" should never have happened this season (if it does),there`s some shite in this league,Dale should`ve comfortably finished mid table at least. |
" Isn`t it strange that the season after KH signs a five year deal we (probably) go down?"
I'd say it's just a coincidence and using that as some sort of reason is looking for an excuse that isn't really there.
If we were challenging for the play-offs, nobody would mention the contract. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 13:15 - Apr 29 with 2509 views | Scunnydale |
Excellent analysis of the signings Shun. Of course, too many haven't worked out as we'd have wished, but there was a reason for them all.
I think we were all delighted when Done came back and, while he's not been as good as before, he's been useful. Plus, I'm much more satisfied (happy is too strong a word) with the signings of Daniels, Knott and Dobre than the likes of Balkenstein and Bergkamp during our last relegation season. |  | | |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 14:20 - Apr 29 with 2418 views | electricblue |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 21:16 - Apr 28 by BigKindo |
It actually goes a little deeper, Playing twice a week has taken it's toll. The possible senior back-ups Brown, Keane and Canavan have manage donly 13 cup and league games between them this season whilst taking wages. |
Those 3 alone can go in the summer......
Along with reece brown, jim mcnulty.
[Post edited 29 Apr 2018 14:23]
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 14:21 - Apr 29 with 2405 views | TVOS1907 |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 14:20 - Apr 29 by electricblue |
Those 3 alone can go in the summer......
Along with reece brown, jim mcnulty.
[Post edited 29 Apr 2018 14:23]
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McNulty is contracted until 2019; he won't be going anywhere. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 14:30 - Apr 29 with 2394 views | electricblue |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 14:21 - Apr 29 by TVOS1907 |
McNulty is contracted until 2019; he won't be going anywhere. |
Unless he gets paid off and transfer listed....
Problem being with Dale just cant compete budget wise...
Punching above the weight as been the norm and now it as caught up squad wise.
Hill cant be expected season after season to create a miracle to keep Dale up.
The board have to take some blame expecting Hill to produce season after season on a poor budget.... [Post edited 29 Apr 2018 14:30]
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 15:10 - Apr 29 with 2309 views | JimmyRustler |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 14:30 - Apr 29 by electricblue |
Unless he gets paid off and transfer listed....
Problem being with Dale just cant compete budget wise...
Punching above the weight as been the norm and now it as caught up squad wise.
Hill cant be expected season after season to create a miracle to keep Dale up.
The board have to take some blame expecting Hill to produce season after season on a poor budget.... [Post edited 29 Apr 2018 14:30]
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The board sanctioned a transfer worth £100k for a conference player during the summer. That's the definition of pushing the boat out for this club. Maybe the scouting network isn't as good as it has been previously? Who knows |  | | |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 15:12 - Apr 29 with 2291 views | 1907 |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 14:30 - Apr 29 by electricblue |
Unless he gets paid off and transfer listed....
Problem being with Dale just cant compete budget wise...
Punching above the weight as been the norm and now it as caught up squad wise.
Hill cant be expected season after season to create a miracle to keep Dale up.
The board have to take some blame expecting Hill to produce season after season on a poor budget.... [Post edited 29 Apr 2018 14:30]
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It appears the playing budget increased significantly in the most recent set of accounts | | | |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 15:14 - Apr 29 with 2273 views | electricblue |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 15:12 - Apr 29 by 1907 |
It appears the playing budget increased significantly in the most recent set of accounts |
If that is the case then it is poor player recruitment by Hill...... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 15:31 - Apr 29 with 2237 views | FalingeParka |
Some fantastic clear headed posts in this thread. All points covered I think.
Generally speaking, and you'll know why I'm asking, (strange selections, baffling or late substitutions at Dale this season), do you think AMs in the game these days are on the staff just as managers' buddies/psychological support/yes men? And if so, is that just a case of fair enough/lonely job? |  |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 15:53 - Apr 29 with 2195 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 15:31 - Apr 29 by FalingeParka |
Some fantastic clear headed posts in this thread. All points covered I think.
Generally speaking, and you'll know why I'm asking, (strange selections, baffling or late substitutions at Dale this season), do you think AMs in the game these days are on the staff just as managers' buddies/psychological support/yes men? And if so, is that just a case of fair enough/lonely job? |
Funnily enough Parky, I was thinking along similar lines only this morn.
Does Chris Beech ever say to Mr Hill, "What the f*ck are you doing, why not try this..... ?"
Does he have any in put....... | | | |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 16:29 - Apr 29 with 2133 views | electricblue |
Another thought Beech as AM is a cheap option over somebody experienced...
I for one would rather somebody else get Managers job if hill leaves at all....
But that depends upon a few things..
Hill taking Beech if he leaves for another club.
Or
Hill leaves and would you want more of the same if the team are struggling etc.. | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 16:30 - Apr 29 with 2128 views | Dale23years |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 16:29 - Apr 29 by electricblue |
Another thought Beech as AM is a cheap option over somebody experienced...
I for one would rather somebody else get Managers job if hill leaves at all....
But that depends upon a few things..
Hill taking Beech if he leaves for another club.
Or
Hill leaves and would you want more of the same if the team are struggling etc.. |
If Hill ever leaves /or get sacked
I'd give Brown and Ellis a chance | |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 16:53 - Apr 29 with 2085 views | FalingeParka |
Hopefully KH going nowhere and not thinking about CB or anyone else as successor. Just thinking about an AM's role generally, they're just chattels of the manager no?
I spose Dale's case a bit different, KH dominates the whole outfit. | |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 17:59 - Apr 29 with 1964 views | Daley_Lama |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 14:21 - Apr 29 by TVOS1907 |
McNulty is contracted until 2019; he won't be going anywhere. |
Hurrah.
Our best CH this season will be here next season. |  |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 18:07 - Apr 29 with 1931 views | electricblue |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 16:53 - Apr 29 by FalingeParka |
Hopefully KH going nowhere and not thinking about CB or anyone else as successor. Just thinking about an AM's role generally, they're just chattels of the manager no?
I spose Dale's case a bit different, KH dominates the whole outfit. |
Well in that case i would fully expect the manager let the AM have a voice aswell as an imput otherwise what is the point of an AM. | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 18:13 - Apr 29 with 1924 views | FalingeParka |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 18:07 - Apr 29 by electricblue |
Well in that case i would fully expect the manager let the AM have a voice aswell as an imput otherwise what is the point of an AM. |
That's what I was suggesting, over three posts, gently. [Post edited 29 Apr 2018 18:14]
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 18:17 - Apr 29 with 1912 views | 49thseason |
There are a few questions that the Management and Board need to get answers to:
1. Is the squad as fit now as the squad of 2 years ago and as fit as all the other teams in the division?
2. This year we have had 36 players on the books over the season, 6 have departed, 1 is the goalkeeping coach, 1 has gone back to his parent club injured, 1 has missed 43 +cup games,
1 is the first team coach, 1 hasn't played at all, 6 haven't actually started a game, 15 have scored a goal but only one has reached double figures.... What is your best team and formation?
3. Did we sign the wrong Jordan Williams?
4. Out of 36 players, how many natural, left-footed, left fullbacks do we have?
5. Why have our set-pieces been so poor? Corners over-hit, throw-ins not finding blue shirts, Free-kicks dropping short, Penalty misses? Do players actually practice for these situations, In addition to a sports scientist, do we have a sports psychologist?
6. If we purport to be a footballing side, why does Josh Lillis continually boot the ball to Calvin Andrew 60 yards away and what is he supposed to do with it? And who is expected to get on the end of his header?
7. Is Tenerife good value for money if we lose and sign players after the main squad returns to the UK?
8. You signed a winger from Bournemouth (Dobre), why has he not played more, especially bearing in mind you paid £100k for Jordan Williams (a winger?)
9. What happened to your promise of moving the ball quickly from back to front?
10. How do you explain that 25% of all goals conceded have been in the last 15 minutes, (See point 1)
11. Can we please go back to "no fear" football where we aim to score more than our opponents every game, not fewer, not the same as ... More than." "Oh, and can we stop trying to defend a one-goal lead by retreating to our penalty area?" Assuming the team is fit enough to play 95 minutes, continuing to attack other teams will result in more points than if we end up drawing because we defended deeper and deeper. |  | | |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 18:36 - Apr 29 with 1873 views | fitzochris |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 18:17 - Apr 29 by 49thseason |
There are a few questions that the Management and Board need to get answers to:
1. Is the squad as fit now as the squad of 2 years ago and as fit as all the other teams in the division?
2. This year we have had 36 players on the books over the season, 6 have departed, 1 is the goalkeeping coach, 1 has gone back to his parent club injured, 1 has missed 43 +cup games,
1 is the first team coach, 1 hasn't played at all, 6 haven't actually started a game, 15 have scored a goal but only one has reached double figures.... What is your best team and formation?
3. Did we sign the wrong Jordan Williams?
4. Out of 36 players, how many natural, left-footed, left fullbacks do we have?
5. Why have our set-pieces been so poor? Corners over-hit, throw-ins not finding blue shirts, Free-kicks dropping short, Penalty misses? Do players actually practice for these situations, In addition to a sports scientist, do we have a sports psychologist?
6. If we purport to be a footballing side, why does Josh Lillis continually boot the ball to Calvin Andrew 60 yards away and what is he supposed to do with it? And who is expected to get on the end of his header?
7. Is Tenerife good value for money if we lose and sign players after the main squad returns to the UK?
8. You signed a winger from Bournemouth (Dobre), why has he not played more, especially bearing in mind you paid £100k for Jordan Williams (a winger?)
9. What happened to your promise of moving the ball quickly from back to front?
10. How do you explain that 25% of all goals conceded have been in the last 15 minutes, (See point 1)
11. Can we please go back to "no fear" football where we aim to score more than our opponents every game, not fewer, not the same as ... More than." "Oh, and can we stop trying to defend a one-goal lead by retreating to our penalty area?" Assuming the team is fit enough to play 95 minutes, continuing to attack other teams will result in more points than if we end up drawing because we defended deeper and deeper. |
Questions one and ten are probably down to our inability to have long spells of possession this season when compared to others. If we’re chasing the ball more, we’re going to tire.
I honestly want to hear from Hill on a lot points at the end of the season to see what he thinks.
From what I’ve seen of us this season, we seem to have abandoned a lot of the things we did so well in the past. We don’t seem to move the opposition around as much, or create gaps to exploit. The ultimate irony is, the only game I’ve seen us do that in this season was against Premier League opposition. |  |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 18:40 - Apr 29 with 1855 views | Nigeriamark |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 18:17 - Apr 29 by 49thseason |
There are a few questions that the Management and Board need to get answers to:
1. Is the squad as fit now as the squad of 2 years ago and as fit as all the other teams in the division?
2. This year we have had 36 players on the books over the season, 6 have departed, 1 is the goalkeeping coach, 1 has gone back to his parent club injured, 1 has missed 43 +cup games,
1 is the first team coach, 1 hasn't played at all, 6 haven't actually started a game, 15 have scored a goal but only one has reached double figures.... What is your best team and formation?
3. Did we sign the wrong Jordan Williams?
4. Out of 36 players, how many natural, left-footed, left fullbacks do we have?
5. Why have our set-pieces been so poor? Corners over-hit, throw-ins not finding blue shirts, Free-kicks dropping short, Penalty misses? Do players actually practice for these situations, In addition to a sports scientist, do we have a sports psychologist?
6. If we purport to be a footballing side, why does Josh Lillis continually boot the ball to Calvin Andrew 60 yards away and what is he supposed to do with it? And who is expected to get on the end of his header?
7. Is Tenerife good value for money if we lose and sign players after the main squad returns to the UK?
8. You signed a winger from Bournemouth (Dobre), why has he not played more, especially bearing in mind you paid £100k for Jordan Williams (a winger?)
9. What happened to your promise of moving the ball quickly from back to front?
10. How do you explain that 25% of all goals conceded have been in the last 15 minutes, (See point 1)
11. Can we please go back to "no fear" football where we aim to score more than our opponents every game, not fewer, not the same as ... More than." "Oh, and can we stop trying to defend a one-goal lead by retreating to our penalty area?" Assuming the team is fit enough to play 95 minutes, continuing to attack other teams will result in more points than if we end up drawing because we defended deeper and deeper. |
isn't question 9 answered by question 6  |  | | |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 18:59 - Apr 29 with 1818 views | FalingeParka |
Stay up, or no, big summer break for KH to rethink. Unlearn. Stop obsessing about budgets. Other club's budgets. Find a captain in midfield. Stop thinking about a big man up front etc etc | |
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| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 19:10 - Apr 29 with 1796 views | TVOS1907 |
| Bad Management and Lack of Professionalism - 2017/18 on 14:30 - Apr 29 by electricblue |
Unless he gets paid off and transfer listed....
Problem being with Dale just cant compete budget wise...
Punching above the weight as been the norm and now it as caught up squad wise.
Hill cant be expected season after season to create a miracle to keep Dale up.
The board have to take some blame expecting Hill to produce season after season on a poor budget.... [Post edited 29 Apr 2018 14:30]
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Like I said, McNulty won't be going anywhere. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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