| Vote of no confidence thread. 18:21 - Dec 15 with 27946 views | E20Jack |
Not a member but will happily join again if this was to get off the ground.
Any members have any ideas how to do this?
Looks like the only way of stopping this deal now. I have asked several times what are the benefits of this deal, it cannot be continuing to have a voice as conceding drag rights will probably mean the Trust survives as an organisation for a shorter period than if it was to go legal. They are not long term owners.
...those who recommended the deal still have not answered.
Swans Trust,
12 Dynevor Avenue,
Neath,
SA10 7AG
I, the undersigned member, believe the current committee no longer represents the wishes of this organisation's members. I would like to register a vote of no confidence and ask you to call and extraordinary meeting of all Trust members so that we can be heard. We would like to table a motion that the following committee members should stand down and call an election at the earliest opportunity.
Alan Lewis
Stuart McDonald
Viv Brooks
Ron Knuszka
Cath Dyer
Viv Williams
Sian Davies
Yours,
................................
** any Trust members for the deal I have missed out feel free to add or any I have included that are against it then again feel free to omit. [Post edited 15 Dec 2017 20:43]
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| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:25 - Dec 17 with 2532 views | chad |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 10:56 - Dec 17 by Vetchfielder |
No, only by email  |
Thanks that's how I was intending to send mine too and Moscow was asking
https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/contact-us/
Suppose they ignore them at their own Peril and ECB / Lisa could mention there was strong feeling and that members had said they were writing in so important to check emails
We would have copies of the sent mails as evidence. |  | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:27 - Dec 17 with 2528 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 10:32 - Dec 17 by MoscowJack |
Does it have to be done publicly? For example, Twitter? Or would a thread on here suffice?
Emails can be ignored or deleted, which means denied.
What would you say would be the best way to express this urgent disapproval please? |
Contact the Trust. Threads on here and tweets etc will likely be ignored. |  |
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| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:30 - Dec 17 with 2522 views | monmouth |
I did it yesterday too, using Email. As you say, reply promised in 48 hours. Any weasel word response is clearly pointless though.
We need critical mass though. Half a dozen can just be ignored. Get anyone you know who is a member to write. If they care about the Trust and the club, it’s now or never. I’ve heard through the grapevine that the current temporary ‘custodians’ of the Trust are absolutely desperate to get it signed off irrevocably before the agm, and inevitably subject themselves to a legacy of personal ridicule and contempt.
I just don’t get it. Who would want to be remembered as the people that gave away the whole farm for a contemptuous bone from his pig masters? |  |
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| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:37 - Dec 17 with 2499 views | Shaky |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:30 - Dec 17 by monmouth |
I did it yesterday too, using Email. As you say, reply promised in 48 hours. Any weasel word response is clearly pointless though.
We need critical mass though. Half a dozen can just be ignored. Get anyone you know who is a member to write. If they care about the Trust and the club, it’s now or never. I’ve heard through the grapevine that the current temporary ‘custodians’ of the Trust are absolutely desperate to get it signed off irrevocably before the agm, and inevitably subject themselves to a legacy of personal ridicule and contempt.
I just don’t get it. Who would want to be remembered as the people that gave away the whole farm for a contemptuous bone from his pig masters? |
You lack a basic understanding of human psychology.
People have made their attacks on the Trust board very personal. As such the subjects of those attacks are predisposed to taking it personally.
Positions harden, and any semblance of rationality goes out the window.
That anybody is surprised by this astounds me. |  |
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| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:56 - Dec 17 with 2463 views | chad |
Sorry another question
Presumably they will be primarily only taking notice of members.
Is putting our names and addresses on the email and stating you are a member enough for them or do we need to get a membership number from somewhere.
Presumably they will also be able to identify our email addresses from the membership database (but think it is important not to rely on them to join up the dots that we are members). Also some may have sent from alternative email addresses.
Also is it worth non member supporters also registering their concern and desire for the sale to stop given they are there to represent the actual supporters not just anyone willing to pay a fiver / tenner with whatever motive.
No disrespect to remote virtual supporters or away only supporters but probably the strongest easy proof of that would be season ticket holders but of course need not be limited to that | | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:59 - Dec 17 with 2457 views | MoscowJack |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:37 - Dec 17 by Shaky |
You lack a basic understanding of human psychology.
People have made their attacks on the Trust board very personal. As such the subjects of those attacks are predisposed to taking it personally.
Positions harden, and any semblance of rationality goes out the window.
That anybody is surprised by this astounds me. |
The thing is, Shaky, that this is personal for us. This is the Swans we're talking about, not a Starbucks shop or our local petrol station. This is something that we are extremely passionate about and it's slowly dying as we watch on.
One of the only ways of putting pressure on the owners is via the Trust, but there seems to be questionable behaviour from some (on the Trust Board) and negligent from others. The Trust, as it is now, is not fit for purpose and we (as fans) not only need to force change but we have the right to too.
The 'tail wagging the dog' comment really did annoy me and I think that Viv Williams wasn't alone in thinking like that. I imagine, rightly or wrongly, that quite a few think like that at the moment, but it's these "few" that we need to remove ASAP! These are the snakes who'll try and push a deal though before an AGM, if it's possible. Why they would want to do this isn't something worth writing on here right now, but you can make your own minds up about that.
So this is personal....very personal.....but not necessarily against one person in particular. We need to start by making sure that the deal can not be signed off and then go from there.
We should be able to look at the Board Members and see who's got value and who hasn't. I would even go as far as turning things around completely (tail wagging the dog?) and have some of the present Board interviewed by a select "fans committee" in a similar way they interviewed the recent applicants. I'm sure a few of them would fall short when compared to some of those recently rejected.
It's time to turn up the pressure! |  |
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| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:59 - Dec 17 with 2456 views | Outsider |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 23:21 - Dec 16 by exiledclaseboy |
Tell ya what folks. If you’re a trust member and want to stop the sale you HAVE to tell the Trust that and do it now. I can’t stress that enough. Do it. Now. Politely. |
To ECB — It would be helpful is you would tell us members how to do this — what I have done is:
a) Send a letter by mail to the Trust address in Neath
b) Send the same letter to the email address on the Trust website
c) Send the same letter to Nigel Hamer as Secretary at: nigelhamer@gmail.com
Is that correct, and what else should be done?
My letter politely requests that the Trust board does not proceed with the share sale and re-examines its options. I also specifically request that new Trust board members and Lisa Clement have an opportunity to fully understand the proposal and give their considered view. | | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 12:15 - Dec 17 with 2439 views | Shaky |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:59 - Dec 17 by MoscowJack |
The thing is, Shaky, that this is personal for us. This is the Swans we're talking about, not a Starbucks shop or our local petrol station. This is something that we are extremely passionate about and it's slowly dying as we watch on.
One of the only ways of putting pressure on the owners is via the Trust, but there seems to be questionable behaviour from some (on the Trust Board) and negligent from others. The Trust, as it is now, is not fit for purpose and we (as fans) not only need to force change but we have the right to too.
The 'tail wagging the dog' comment really did annoy me and I think that Viv Williams wasn't alone in thinking like that. I imagine, rightly or wrongly, that quite a few think like that at the moment, but it's these "few" that we need to remove ASAP! These are the snakes who'll try and push a deal though before an AGM, if it's possible. Why they would want to do this isn't something worth writing on here right now, but you can make your own minds up about that.
So this is personal....very personal.....but not necessarily against one person in particular. We need to start by making sure that the deal can not be signed off and then go from there.
We should be able to look at the Board Members and see who's got value and who hasn't. I would even go as far as turning things around completely (tail wagging the dog?) and have some of the present Board interviewed by a select "fans committee" in a similar way they interviewed the recent applicants. I'm sure a few of them would fall short when compared to some of those recently rejected.
It's time to turn up the pressure! |
I understand all that, Nick.
But I'm sure you agree that the situation demands some kind of balance between passion and a more considered approach.
Furthmore, if you have been following along I trust you see my approach does not lack any determination. I don't take prisoners, but I also undestand the value of trying to keep events on a strictly business only basis, as they say in the movies.
That's one thing that gives me some semblance of professionalism in these sorts of matters. And that's not a bad thing because pure passion is getting dangerously close to mob rule, and that's a big turn off for a lot of people. | |
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| Vote of no confidence thread. on 12:54 - Dec 17 with 2391 views | Outsider |
Both correct. Without passion nothing will change with the Swans Trust. So far the passion has shaken things up in a healthy manner and more of this is needed. Alongside this passion there must be measured action through due processes to ultimately be effective. This is not easy as much is opaque with the Trust governance.
Most of the existing Swans Trust board (excluding at least some of the recent co-opted additions) views people on Plant Swans as a bunch of hooligans that should be ignored. | | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 12:59 - Dec 17 with 2381 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 12:54 - Dec 17 by Outsider |
Both correct. Without passion nothing will change with the Swans Trust. So far the passion has shaken things up in a healthy manner and more of this is needed. Alongside this passion there must be measured action through due processes to ultimately be effective. This is not easy as much is opaque with the Trust governance.
Most of the existing Swans Trust board (excluding at least some of the recent co-opted additions) views people on Plant Swans as a bunch of hooligans that should be ignored. |
Last para - three of the four new co-optees have posted on here as has Lisa, a new affiliate. I’m not sure any of us consider PS in the way described. | |
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| Vote of no confidence thread. on 13:03 - Dec 17 with 2367 views | dobjack2 |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 10:14 - Dec 17 by Shaky |
No.
The key point is all directors serve subject to Rule 63, and as such can be removed at any time at any members' meeting. |
True my use of key point was inappropriate but was meant to highlight how the trust has not been run in accordance with its rules.
Rule 63 is the key point for an AGM | | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 13:04 - Dec 17 with 2361 views | Outsider |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 12:59 - Dec 17 by exiledclaseboy |
Last para - three of the four new co-optees have posted on here as has Lisa, a new affiliate. I’m not sure any of us consider PS in the way described. |
That's very good to know.
Edit: "Most of the existing Swans Trust board (excluding at least 3 of the 4 recent co-opted additions) views people on Plant Swans as a bunch of hooligans that should be ignored. | | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 13:08 - Dec 17 with 2355 views | donkonky |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 23:21 - Dec 16 by exiledclaseboy |
Tell ya what folks. If you’re a trust member and want to stop the sale you HAVE to tell the Trust that and do it now. I can’t stress that enough. Do it. Now. Politely. |
This seems to be gathering momentum so can I suggest some sort of visual count / total to date chart. Maybe one of you clever pie chart type people could get one going? |  | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 14:55 - Dec 18 with 2194 views | jacktheripper |
Letter and 2 emails sent. Just hope they do some good |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:21 - Dec 18 with 2180 views | cymrojack |
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 12:06]
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| Gwynedd & Swansea - Veteran of Morriston Boys Club |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:18 - Dec 19 with 2090 views | chad |
Anyone who wants the deal paused and members re consulted
Don't forget to write to the Trust and let them know ASAP
https:/www.swanstrust.co.uk/contact-us/ there is a contact form on this page
or you can email them direcrt on https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/contact-us/
Say if you are a member and give your details
Any non members who want this, should contact them too as they are supposed to be there to respresent the tens of thousands of members not just the thousand or so who are wiling to cough up a fiver/tenner (for whatever reason supporters/investors or whatever else) [Post edited 19 Dec 2017 15:26]
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| Vote of no confidence thread. on 15:35 - Dec 19 with 2055 views | little_britton |
Could someone put up a template letter on here for me to copy |  | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 15:39 - Dec 19 with 2047 views | chad |
Here is the response of another trust member if that helps - mine is 5 pages and goes in great detail so a bit long to go on here .......
Attending the Trust members meeting on Thursday I was very concerned by what I heard.
To learn that Phil Sumbler had resigned his position as long standing Chairman, in direct response to the negotiating stance of the new owners, is very revealing. Phil could not have done more to champion the cause of accepting the deal recommended in the consultation document (notwithstanding that he publicly recognised that the terms on offer were far from ideal).
To strongly recommend accepting what he considered the least damaging of the solutions available was bad enough, however to be faced with further changes to the detriment of the Trust, appears to have been a step too far and triggered Phil’s resignation. The fact that the remaining Board members claim to have recovered the situation, is not the point. Surely, the most disturbing fact is that the new owners appear to have “tried it on” attempting to change the deal they agreed (as set out in the consultation document).
This clearly demonstrates bad faith on their behalf and brings into Question the key issue of trust between ourselves and the new owners.
Added to this is the tightening pressure that Board members appear to be under not to talk out of turn or in any way be seen to criticise the behaviour or performance of the club officials. As one of the key roles of the trust is to openly debate and pass comment on issues within the club. We seem to have reached a situation where Board members have great difficulty talking to the supporters they represent and themselves find it difficult to reflect our views to the owners
Given the significant change in the situation since the consulatation doucment was issued I feel it is wholly inappropriate that the Board continue negotiations under this umbrella.
I therefore request that the negotiations are adjourned, to enable the Board to take proper stock of the current views and expectations of The Trust members and the Supporters it represents. | | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 15:59 - Dec 19 with 2015 views | chad |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 15:35 - Dec 19 by little_britton |
Could someone put up a template letter on here for me to copy |
See above but could be quite brief
That you would like the deal suspended until the members can be re-consulted given the significant change in relationships after the owners tried to add changes to those agreed in the consultation document.
Also have tried to impose gagging requirements which would basically render the Trust literally a silent partner. which is totally inappropriate to the aims and objectives of the orgnaisation.
Another main concern was the trust totally watering down a stong letter of concern to the owners because of the deal. This marks a significant change to the Trusts core behavour because of the deal and which was not reflected in the consultation document
Of course Phil and Matts resignations are a game changer especially as Phil spearheaded the drive for the deal but would now vote against it given the other owners behaviour. This is a major change from the relationship of trust which the deal had to be based on given the important rights we would be signing over to them.
Main argument is that the deal has changed and so should be put back to the members. Relationship broken down to the extent that the Chair who spearheaded the drive for accepting the recommended deal would now not even vote for it himself | | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 16:25 - Dec 19 with 1991 views | little_britton |
Thanks | | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 23:41 - Dec 19 with 1876 views | scruffyjack |
Mine sent - two e-mails. | | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 13:34 - Dec 20 with 1802 views | wobbly |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 11:27 - Dec 17 by exiledclaseboy |
Contact the Trust. Threads on here and tweets etc will likely be ignored. |
Have you managed to establish how many people have done this yet?
A straw poll of those I know who have sent an email expressing concern have had no acknowledgement or reply. Id hate it if they were just sitting in an inbox unread. |  | | |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 14:06 - Dec 20 with 1782 views | E20Jack |
how many voted against the deal? Couple of hundred wasn't it?
Surely unless the emails received are more than that - then they will just see it as something they already know. They obviously are aware there are a few hundred members unhappy about it due to the sheer fact they voted against it. Can't understand what will be new here to make them reconsider. [Post edited 20 Dec 2017 14:08]
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| Vote of no confidence thread. on 14:27 - Dec 20 with 1749 views | chad |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 14:06 - Dec 20 by E20Jack |
how many voted against the deal? Couple of hundred wasn't it?
Surely unless the emails received are more than that - then they will just see it as something they already know. They obviously are aware there are a few hundred members unhappy about it due to the sheer fact they voted against it. Can't understand what will be new here to make them reconsider. [Post edited 20 Dec 2017 14:08]
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A change in the fundamental concepts the deal was based on, meaning they have to return it to the membership
See Matt and Phil's comments | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:46 - Dec 20 with 1696 views | cymrojack |
| Vote of no confidence thread. on 13:34 - Dec 20 by wobbly |
Have you managed to establish how many people have done this yet?
A straw poll of those I know who have sent an email expressing concern have had no acknowledgement or reply. Id hate it if they were just sitting in an inbox unread. |
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 12:06]
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| Gwynedd & Swansea - Veteran of Morriston Boys Club |
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