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I hope the new guardian jenkins article is better than the one he wrote a couple of hours after the bombing, and got royally skull fkd on via the comments.
a great response here.screen shot as it was deleted of course .
i notice there is a guardian safe space, ie No comments allowed on jenkins latest latest tour de force piece.
Proof if ever needed, that many of us on here have less than fk all in common other than our love for 11 geezers kicking a ball in the same blue and white hoops. In most cases.
Credit to everyone on here not resorting to cnting each other off, not directly anyway.
to keep my cool at some of the mindbending, outer limits comments from the tesseract of unknown dimensions , i simply imagine the poster in their pants . Using laurie pennys fgm offcut, as bass guitar strings aka Alan Partridge.
I dont think Gary numan has been able to play chameleons live ever since. Potent.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2016 12:18]
You know what a love letter is?
1
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:08 - Mar 24 with 1635 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 11:49 - Mar 24 by paulparker
We have just started an election campaign and the right-wing government goes to bed every night praying for a terrorist incident that they can get tough on.
You maybe right , but this isn't all exclusive to the horrible "right wing " governments you know I seemed to a remember a left wing prime minister from this country , oh blair that was his name , he got us into a war on the back of a terrorist attack in America and saying he was a 100% sure there were WMD , he even got a certain dr Kelly to kill himself
If I had my way Bush, Blair and Howard (Aussie PM of the time) would all be imprisoned for the war-hungry liars that they are.
In Oz, surveys show national security is a poll winner for the current right-wing government, that's why the prospect of terrorism has them salivating.
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:08 - Mar 24 by isawqpratwcity
If I had my way Bush, Blair and Howard (Aussie PM of the time) would all be imprisoned for the war-hungry liars that they are.
In Oz, surveys show national security is a poll winner for the current right-wing government, that's why the prospect of terrorism has them salivating.
Which is why ECHR remains so important, albeit in urgent need of meeting a whole new world. Certainly Europe. Government is as dangerous as ISIS.
As usual, Brussels, whilst blaming Greece for leaky borders, let this knut in having been deported from Turkey after turning up on the Syrian/Turkey border trying to get in to Turkey. What did Brussels think? Was he down there for a picnic? ffs Given access to the EU and rights he could bomb wherever he chooses across 27 countries. So they have no control over the borders at all and even less b4lls to say no, fck off, not getting in. Sick of the EU and Farage in equal measure. Why do we allow ourselves to be governed by knuts?
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:29 - Mar 24 with 1565 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 11:49 - Mar 24 by paulparker
We have just started an election campaign and the right-wing government goes to bed every night praying for a terrorist incident that they can get tough on.
You maybe right , but this isn't all exclusive to the horrible "right wing " governments you know I seemed to a remember a left wing prime minister from this country , oh blair that was his name , he got us into a war on the back of a terrorist attack in America and saying he was a 100% sure there were WMD , he even got a certain dr Kelly to kill himself
Do you really think that was a left wing government ?
0
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:48 - Mar 24 with 1492 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:07 - Mar 24 by Discodroids
I hope the new guardian jenkins article is better than the one he wrote a couple of hours after the bombing, and got royally skull fkd on via the comments.
a great response here.screen shot as it was deleted of course .
i notice there is a guardian safe space, ie No comments allowed on jenkins latest latest tour de force piece.
Proof if ever needed, that many of us on here have less than fk all in common other than our love for 11 geezers kicking a ball in the same blue and white hoops. In most cases.
Credit to everyone on here not resorting to cnting each other off, not directly anyway.
to keep my cool at some of the mindbending, outer limits comments from the tesseract of unknown dimensions , i simply imagine the poster in their pants . Using laurie pennys fgm offcut, as bass guitar strings aka Alan Partridge.
I dont think Gary numan has been able to play chameleons live ever since. Potent.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2016 12:18]
In response to Treehorning's comments, I didn't see where Jenkins says the fault for the attacks lies with the West, simply that the way we conduct/have conducted foreign policy doesn't help: do you think the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have helped? That locking-up people for years in Guantanamo Bay, often with no evidence, has helped? Drone strikes that wipe out civilians are good for PR? That propping up dictators in the Arab world or elsewhere has helped? That cosying up to the Saudis, despite their pivotal/central role in the spread of Salafist extremism throughout the Muslim world helps?
The blame and responsibility lies 100% with the murderers and the people who preach the sh it they choose to follow, but we haven't helped ourselves in terms of generating resentment against the West.
As for the terrorist attacks in general being random - surely they are? If you can't predict when or where they will occur: it's not like they happen in the main square at 10am on the first Sunday of the month - they're surely random? EDIT: He seems to think it's not random that terrorists based in Brussels should attack Brussels - agreed, but the general point is that you never know when or where an attack might take place. And it was surely random that terrorists from Brussels should choose to launch their attacks in Paris that Friday night? That was hardly inevitable or always on the cards.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2016 12:59]
Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts
2
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:52 - Mar 24 with 1487 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:30 - Mar 24 by BazzaInTheLoft
Do you really think that was a left wing government ?
It was a left wing government by the standards of the day. New labour was a centrist left party, obv to the right of old labour but still left wing.
It also (aside from foreign policy, attitude towards City Finance etc) did lots of left wing things - minimum wage, increased investment in public services, scrapped section 28, banned fox hunting, doubled foreign aid budget.
If not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled. PG Wodehouse
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:30 - Mar 24 by BazzaInTheLoft
Do you really think that was a left wing government ?
so what your saying Baz is that the shambles of the Labour government in that time who got us into this mess was a right wing party all a long
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
0
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:15 - Mar 24 with 1435 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:48 - Mar 24 by Konk
In response to Treehorning's comments, I didn't see where Jenkins says the fault for the attacks lies with the West, simply that the way we conduct/have conducted foreign policy doesn't help: do you think the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have helped? That locking-up people for years in Guantanamo Bay, often with no evidence, has helped? Drone strikes that wipe out civilians are good for PR? That propping up dictators in the Arab world or elsewhere has helped? That cosying up to the Saudis, despite their pivotal/central role in the spread of Salafist extremism throughout the Muslim world helps?
The blame and responsibility lies 100% with the murderers and the people who preach the sh it they choose to follow, but we haven't helped ourselves in terms of generating resentment against the West.
As for the terrorist attacks in general being random - surely they are? If you can't predict when or where they will occur: it's not like they happen in the main square at 10am on the first Sunday of the month - they're surely random? EDIT: He seems to think it's not random that terrorists based in Brussels should attack Brussels - agreed, but the general point is that you never know when or where an attack might take place. And it was surely random that terrorists from Brussels should choose to launch their attacks in Paris that Friday night? That was hardly inevitable or always on the cards.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2016 12:59]
'That cosying up to the Saudis, despite their pivotal/central role in the spread of Salafist extremism throughout the Muslim world helps?'
That's a fair point though.
18 out of 19 attackers on 9/11 were Saudis and we attack .... Afghanistan.
No wonder the Saudis are so fcking cocky. They must think we're fcking imbeciles or that Allah has 'blinded' us to the obvious. They have a point.
They're not random, because they are planned. The inability to discern a pattern is not proof of randomness.
You know what a love letter is?
2
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:15 - Mar 24 with 1433 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:48 - Mar 24 by Konk
In response to Treehorning's comments, I didn't see where Jenkins says the fault for the attacks lies with the West, simply that the way we conduct/have conducted foreign policy doesn't help: do you think the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have helped? That locking-up people for years in Guantanamo Bay, often with no evidence, has helped? Drone strikes that wipe out civilians are good for PR? That propping up dictators in the Arab world or elsewhere has helped? That cosying up to the Saudis, despite their pivotal/central role in the spread of Salafist extremism throughout the Muslim world helps?
The blame and responsibility lies 100% with the murderers and the people who preach the sh it they choose to follow, but we haven't helped ourselves in terms of generating resentment against the West.
As for the terrorist attacks in general being random - surely they are? If you can't predict when or where they will occur: it's not like they happen in the main square at 10am on the first Sunday of the month - they're surely random? EDIT: He seems to think it's not random that terrorists based in Brussels should attack Brussels - agreed, but the general point is that you never know when or where an attack might take place. And it was surely random that terrorists from Brussels should choose to launch their attacks in Paris that Friday night? That was hardly inevitable or always on the cards.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2016 12:59]
Targets of opportunity rather than "random" attacks.There was considerable planning involved. Well the genie is firmly out of the bottle - what to do now?As much as limp wrists will allow.Just watch your backs,especially this weekend.
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:01 - Mar 24 by paulparker
so what your saying Baz is that the shambles of the Labour government in that time who got us into this mess was a right wing party all a long
No.
But bombing poor people in Iraq and Afghanistan, privatising everything to fvck, and being matey with New Corp and big Corporation is hardly Che Guevara type behaviour is it?
And to be clear, We have been without a Labour government for six years now. Will everyone still be claiming them at the next election?
[Post edited 24 Mar 2016 13:21]
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:25 - Mar 24 with 1415 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:15 - Mar 24 by Discodroids
'That cosying up to the Saudis, despite their pivotal/central role in the spread of Salafist extremism throughout the Muslim world helps?'
That's a fair point though.
18 out of 19 attackers on 9/11 were Saudis and we attack .... Afghanistan.
No wonder the Saudis are so fcking cocky. They must think we're fcking imbeciles or that Allah has 'blinded' us to the obvious. They have a point.
They're not random, because they are planned. The inability to discern a pattern is not proof of randomness.
Without getting into semantics, someone could choose to plant a bomb in a suburban library at 10am next Tuesday, on a bus at 3pm on Wednesday or in a shoe shop at 5pm on Saturday. In the sense that we don't know where or when, as far as the general public and people avoiding attacks are concerned, it's all pretty random.
A bunch of Saudis flying planes into the Twin Towers in NYC was surely something that the average punter couldn't anticipate? Maybe we should substitute "unpredictable" for "random", because not everything is going to get picked-up by the security services.
To clarify, in my fantasies, I'd like to see various extremists disappeared or if convicted, left to rot in truly grim circumstances within the prison system, but I also believe in the rule of law.
Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts
0
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:30 - Mar 24 with 1403 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 12:48 - Mar 24 by Konk
In response to Treehorning's comments, I didn't see where Jenkins says the fault for the attacks lies with the West, simply that the way we conduct/have conducted foreign policy doesn't help: do you think the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have helped? That locking-up people for years in Guantanamo Bay, often with no evidence, has helped? Drone strikes that wipe out civilians are good for PR? That propping up dictators in the Arab world or elsewhere has helped? That cosying up to the Saudis, despite their pivotal/central role in the spread of Salafist extremism throughout the Muslim world helps?
The blame and responsibility lies 100% with the murderers and the people who preach the sh it they choose to follow, but we haven't helped ourselves in terms of generating resentment against the West.
As for the terrorist attacks in general being random - surely they are? If you can't predict when or where they will occur: it's not like they happen in the main square at 10am on the first Sunday of the month - they're surely random? EDIT: He seems to think it's not random that terrorists based in Brussels should attack Brussels - agreed, but the general point is that you never know when or where an attack might take place. And it was surely random that terrorists from Brussels should choose to launch their attacks in Paris that Friday night? That was hardly inevitable or always on the cards.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2016 12:59]
'Our' mass murder of civilians is fine/ignorable/acceptable/necessary. We've got uniforms, huge weaponry, sizable budgets and men in suits who would never lie to us or hide information explaining why we do it...we couldn't possibly be terrorists. Or supporting it where and when it suits us. Saudi being a good example that we all seem to agree on.
We, understandably, get outraged when we see events like Brussels but honestly expect people on the 'other side' not to feel the same when they are fed similar imagery of our murderous barbarism. How could that be possible? Look how angry or even violent seeing some of the images is making some of you feel? Now imagine some ISIS recruiter showing similar imagery of Western genocide to his 'recruits'. If they have the same visceral response as some of you, what might it inspire the more unbalanced/f*cked up ones of them to do...?
I would urge any of you with an interest in all this to go and read the link bazza left about the most in depth study undertaken on terrorist attacks by a professor in the USA, his findings are very clear about the lack of true religious fundamentalism of those involved.
The real truth is that the huge majority of people on both sides want peace and it's our job to find a way to circumnavigate the tiny majority of nutters on both sides who are determined to ensure that this sort of thing goes on and on and on...
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:30 - Mar 24 with 1397 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:25 - Mar 24 by Konk
Without getting into semantics, someone could choose to plant a bomb in a suburban library at 10am next Tuesday, on a bus at 3pm on Wednesday or in a shoe shop at 5pm on Saturday. In the sense that we don't know where or when, as far as the general public and people avoiding attacks are concerned, it's all pretty random.
A bunch of Saudis flying planes into the Twin Towers in NYC was surely something that the average punter couldn't anticipate? Maybe we should substitute "unpredictable" for "random", because not everything is going to get picked-up by the security services.
To clarify, in my fantasies, I'd like to see various extremists disappeared or if convicted, left to rot in truly grim circumstances within the prison system, but I also believe in the rule of law.
From a victim's point of view it will seem random.......but it ain't a spontaneous decision.Most bomb factories are within the locale.They've only got to be lucky once where you've got to be lucky all the time.
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:15 - Mar 24 by TheBlob
Targets of opportunity rather than "random" attacks.There was considerable planning involved. Well the genie is firmly out of the bottle - what to do now?As much as limp wrists will allow.Just watch your backs,especially this weekend.
I'd agree with the 'targets of opportunity' bit.
If there is any pattern to this bombing, it is which bunch of terrorists where has managed to build up the capacity to undertake an attack. After that the targets are just low-hanging fruit.
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:16 - Mar 24 by BazzaInTheLoft
No.
But bombing poor people in Iraq and Afghanistan, privatising everything to fvck, and being matey with New Corp and big Corporation is hardly Che Guevara type behaviour is it?
And to be clear, We have been without a Labour government for six years now. Will everyone still be claiming them at the next election?
[Post edited 24 Mar 2016 13:21]
Mass Immigration to the point they didn't have a clue how many people were here (jack straws words) anyone against them was branded racist (hello mrs duffy ) , thus undercutting the working man here Selling all our gold & reserves for nothing, ruining the economy , cuts in the NHS , cuts in the Armed forces , poor crime rates, phony wars costing us millions , running the country into debt, final salary pensions being scrapped, peoples savings going down the crapper ,
id say that takes a bit longer than 6 years to repair wouldn't you
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
2
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 14:01 - Mar 24 with 1584 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 09:15 - Mar 24 by Rangers67
Yes I watched that Dave, frightening ! This is such a big problem that there is no easy answer to it I,m afraid and for a lot of people and their relatives its too late ( Paris, Brussels, London ). I like to think I take a fairly balanced view of the world and one thing that really gets me is this and previous governments failure to control who is coming into and out of this country. One of the most important things any government should do is protect its citizens, something our governments have all failed to do recently. Take the situation of people going out to Syria or wherever to fight for ISIS and then being allowed back into this or other countries, absolute madness. Not only are we allowing citizens of this country to go abroad and potentially murder innocent people from another country, we then let them back into this country with all sorts of lunatic ideas in there head and who knows what skills they may have picked up. The solutions to these problems are multi faceted but all religions are responsible over the course of history for being the root cause of conflict. I would start with education and ban ALL faith schools pronto. We also need some politicians who have some balls and implement policies that protect people in this country first and put the so called human rights of these lunatics second ( dream on ). Now I don,t want to come across as some sort of right wing nutter because my politics aren,t of that persuasion but there was a politician in the sixties who predicted all this and he was ridiculed.....but he was right !
Well said 67 I think there are a lot of people that need to open their eyes, preferably those in power, and that we need to reclaim our borders , enforce our laws & ban some parts of muslim culture being acted out in this country
[Post edited 24 Mar 2016 14:03]
1
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 14:07 - Mar 24 with 1570 views
If I was younger I'd get the f*ck out before the shit hits the fan. Canada seems a nice place,plenty of room......or New Zealand,but can you get a decent ruby there?
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 11:26 - Mar 24 by paulparker
We can respond to events in Brussels with a quiet and dignified sympathy, with candles and silences.
yep that will show them Jihadi's
That's part of it.
Terrorists love a spectacle, that's what it's all about for them. Rolling 24 hour news coverage, knee-jerk reactions, empty rhetoric from politicians, hand-wringing, candlelit vigils, flags projected on prominent buildings, mawkish twitter campaigns...all grist to the jihadi mill.
Meantime no-one gives a fck about the latest hundreds of poor cnts murdered in Turkey, Syria, Iraq etc.
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 15:19 - Mar 24 by kensalriser
That's part of it.
Terrorists love a spectacle, that's what it's all about for them. Rolling 24 hour news coverage, knee-jerk reactions, empty rhetoric from politicians, hand-wringing, candlelit vigils, flags projected on prominent buildings, mawkish twitter campaigns...all grist to the jihadi mill.
Meantime no-one gives a fck about the latest hundreds of poor cnts murdered in Turkey, Syria, Iraq etc.
Meantime no-one gives a fck about the latest hundreds of poor cnts murdered in Turkey, Syria, Iraq
well I would say they do, plenty of people in this country don't want any war or any bombing campaign but ask yourself do the people who live in Turkey , Syria, Irag , give a fcuk about the people of Belgium, Paris , London who have been murdered ?
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
1
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 15:54 - Mar 24 with 1477 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 13:57 - Mar 24 by paulparker
Mass Immigration to the point they didn't have a clue how many people were here (jack straws words) anyone against them was branded racist (hello mrs duffy ) , thus undercutting the working man here Selling all our gold & reserves for nothing, ruining the economy , cuts in the NHS , cuts in the Armed forces , poor crime rates, phony wars costing us millions , running the country into debt, final salary pensions being scrapped, peoples savings going down the crapper ,
id say that takes a bit longer than 6 years to repair wouldn't you
I think you think i'm trying to defend New Labour but the only thing we'll disagree on is who hates them more me or you.
In the last six years, everything you listed has gotten worse.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2016 16:16]
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:25 - Mar 24 with 1420 views
Except crime. I can never find evidence that crime itself is rising as fast as fear and perception of crime. London murder rates for example have been lower in the last four years than any other years over the last 25.
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