| Can we have another Centre Back please? 23:50 - Jul 5 with 20447 views | Dorse |
Starting to get a bit worried now, Chris. A big, nasty bar-steward who would tackle a concrete effigy of King Kong if it looked on-side in the box. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 15:07 - Jul 6 with 2475 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:39 - Jul 6 by WilloW4 |
"Onuoha-caulker partnership, think they'll do a job in the championship"..? What ? Why?.. Don't understand how some think that these two can cut it in the championship even...each to their own and fair enough, but in my humble they're both average at best, awful at worst... Mistakes a plenty with those two as centre backs...just a thought. |
But we can't go out and just buy a whole new team willow! Onuoha was fine in the champ last time out - when we were promoted. And while Caulker was a lost lamb by the end of last season he's a decent defender. What we need is a settled back 4 and some solid coaching of them into a proper unit. Hopefully GF will be in to do that. |  |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:31 - Jul 6 with 2392 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:03 - Jul 6 by Antti_Heinola |
Bollocks. Sorry.
As has been pointed out, Harriman has played loads of games in league one and two. Hardly untried. If we had signed someone his age from a league one club you wouldn't be saying a word! What an absolute load of garbage.
I love it when people talk about 'ruining' kids. Listen, if they're going to make it, they'll make it, simple as that. If they're going to go to pieces because of a few tough games early in their career, they were never going to make it anyway. We also have Ned who can move across to RB if it really, really goes tits up. Not really much of an issue.
Really, it's not that different to when we started the season with Gallen and Dichio up front - OK, they had some experience the season before and yes we went down - but actually the pair of them did pretty bloody well and certainly weren't to blame for our relegation.
You need to chill. Harriman and Furlong are fine options at right back. If you don't try them now, then when do you? We spend more money now on an RB and we'll just limit their chances even further. If we were in the Prem, for what it's worth, I'd agree totally. But we're not. |
No. That is bollocks.
For starters he's almost 23 and has played 34 games in the division below so let's calm down on his great lower league experience.
Even if he had, that is still untried. 'If we had signed someone his age from a league one club' he was in a league two side so the example is not exactly apt but I understand your point. That player would still be a gamble and would still be untried but you can take those risks if you have cover. So Luongo and Gladwin and JET and Petrasso might all flop but you're at least you've got options there. What IF it's Harriman that flops? Well it's all on young Furlongs shoulders and that isn't good for anyone. And that does happen fairly often, it's shown most clearly with goalscorers being unable to score despite scoring for fun in the lower leagues but the same thing can happen to other players.
Kids get ruined. Anyone who has ever worked in youth football will have stories of the great kid who never made it. There is a reason why kids are not thrown in willy nilly.
I think they will both develop into good players, they are actually my favorite prospects by far and I've been a fan of Harriman especially since he first debuted. He may be ready but if he's not it's a bad situation.
Sounds very much like everyone who told me we had sufficient cover on the wings and at fullback last year though tbf I doubt you would have.
I'd try Furlong after a year at Wycombe as a 19/20 year old with hopefully Harriman already settled and established in the squad.
I doubt our finances would prevent a back up right back on a short contract. |  |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:36 - Jul 6 with 2386 views | Northernr |
If we keep Onuoha and Caulker together I'll have a little wager that they're one of if not the outstanding centre half partnership in the league.
Caulker is a good player. He had a torrid second half of the season with us, and he seems to have issues off the field, and maybe they'll dog him and he'll be useless again, but he looked extremely good for Bristol City and Swansea, decent for Spurs and Cardiff and I thought he was a good signing. He'll be plenty good enough for the second tier if he stays IMO.
Onuoha's big problem is keeping fit, but again at this level he's absolutely fine. Remember the first two months of our promotion season he was amazing, people were gutted when he got injured against Brighton. |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:38 - Jul 6 with 2379 views | Northernr |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:31 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
No. That is bollocks.
For starters he's almost 23 and has played 34 games in the division below so let's calm down on his great lower league experience.
Even if he had, that is still untried. 'If we had signed someone his age from a league one club' he was in a league two side so the example is not exactly apt but I understand your point. That player would still be a gamble and would still be untried but you can take those risks if you have cover. So Luongo and Gladwin and JET and Petrasso might all flop but you're at least you've got options there. What IF it's Harriman that flops? Well it's all on young Furlongs shoulders and that isn't good for anyone. And that does happen fairly often, it's shown most clearly with goalscorers being unable to score despite scoring for fun in the lower leagues but the same thing can happen to other players.
Kids get ruined. Anyone who has ever worked in youth football will have stories of the great kid who never made it. There is a reason why kids are not thrown in willy nilly.
I think they will both develop into good players, they are actually my favorite prospects by far and I've been a fan of Harriman especially since he first debuted. He may be ready but if he's not it's a bad situation.
Sounds very much like everyone who told me we had sufficient cover on the wings and at fullback last year though tbf I doubt you would have.
I'd try Furlong after a year at Wycombe as a 19/20 year old with hopefully Harriman already settled and established in the squad.
I doubt our finances would prevent a back up right back on a short contract. |
Harriman has made 99 senior professional appearances (four as a sub) and scored three goals. | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:40 - Jul 6 with 2374 views | BasingstokeR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:31 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
No. That is bollocks.
For starters he's almost 23 and has played 34 games in the division below so let's calm down on his great lower league experience.
Even if he had, that is still untried. 'If we had signed someone his age from a league one club' he was in a league two side so the example is not exactly apt but I understand your point. That player would still be a gamble and would still be untried but you can take those risks if you have cover. So Luongo and Gladwin and JET and Petrasso might all flop but you're at least you've got options there. What IF it's Harriman that flops? Well it's all on young Furlongs shoulders and that isn't good for anyone. And that does happen fairly often, it's shown most clearly with goalscorers being unable to score despite scoring for fun in the lower leagues but the same thing can happen to other players.
Kids get ruined. Anyone who has ever worked in youth football will have stories of the great kid who never made it. There is a reason why kids are not thrown in willy nilly.
I think they will both develop into good players, they are actually my favorite prospects by far and I've been a fan of Harriman especially since he first debuted. He may be ready but if he's not it's a bad situation.
Sounds very much like everyone who told me we had sufficient cover on the wings and at fullback last year though tbf I doubt you would have.
I'd try Furlong after a year at Wycombe as a 19/20 year old with hopefully Harriman already settled and established in the squad.
I doubt our finances would prevent a back up right back on a short contract. |
How many games / seasons are you giving any of these players mentioned before you've decided they've as you say "flopped"?
What's your criteria for floppage?  |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:48 - Jul 6 with 2347 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:38 - Jul 6 by Northernr |
Harriman has made 99 senior professional appearances (four as a sub) and scored three goals. |
Ok?
Fully agree about the CB's btw. [Post edited 6 Jul 2015 16:48]
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:52 - Jul 6 with 2329 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:40 - Jul 6 by BasingstokeR |
How many games / seasons are you giving any of these players mentioned before you've decided they've as you say "flopped"?
What's your criteria for floppage? |
Ah now that's a big question. It's dependant on the player I think. If a coach is absolutely convinced that someone will come good then they'll get longer than someone considered a gamble.
But I'd say a year and a half. If they suck the whole time after that it's unlikely they'll turn it around unless they are still young. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:52 - Jul 6 with 2329 views | WilloW4 |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:36 - Jul 6 by Northernr |
If we keep Onuoha and Caulker together I'll have a little wager that they're one of if not the outstanding centre half partnership in the league.
Caulker is a good player. He had a torrid second half of the season with us, and he seems to have issues off the field, and maybe they'll dog him and he'll be useless again, but he looked extremely good for Bristol City and Swansea, decent for Spurs and Cardiff and I thought he was a good signing. He'll be plenty good enough for the second tier if he stays IMO.
Onuoha's big problem is keeping fit, but again at this level he's absolutely fine. Remember the first two months of our promotion season he was amazing, people were gutted when he got injured against Brighton. |
I'll take you up on that 'little wager' Northernr. |  | | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:54 - Jul 6 with 2319 views | Northernr |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:52 - Jul 6 by WilloW4 |
I'll take you up on that 'little wager' Northernr. |
Ok, if they stay and play together and they're crap at this level I'll stick a score into the community trust. | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:59 - Jul 6 with 2300 views | WilloW4 |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:54 - Jul 6 by Northernr |
Ok, if they stay and play together and they're crap at this level I'll stick a score into the community trust. |
Fair call... If they play together (at least a few times ?!), and do well together I'll happily match your wager for the community trust.. Either way the dough is going to a good cause. | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:59 - Jul 6 with 2300 views | GloryHunter |
Richard Dunne for another season, please. |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 17:45 - Jul 6 with 2235 views | Seth_Gecko |
Make of this what you will but I believe we've got a 26 year old German CB with us at the moment. Whether he's having a trial or just training etc, I don't know.
Christopher Schorch.
Spent most of his recent years in the 2nd and 3rd German Leagues.
If true then we're scraping the barrel if you ask me, but might turn out to be nothing. |  |
| Everybody be cool, you be cool... |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 17:48 - Jul 6 with 2227 views | Northernr |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 17:45 - Jul 6 by Seth_Gecko |
Make of this what you will but I believe we've got a 26 year old German CB with us at the moment. Whether he's having a trial or just training etc, I don't know.
Christopher Schorch.
Spent most of his recent years in the 2nd and 3rd German Leagues.
If true then we're scraping the barrel if you ask me, but might turn out to be nothing. |
We/Ramsey/Ferdinand have obviously had some people watching the German lower leagues if true.
Actually spent time with Real Madrid B that lad after being singed as a teen for 600k. | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 18:03 - Jul 6 with 2186 views | stevec |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:36 - Jul 6 by Northernr |
If we keep Onuoha and Caulker together I'll have a little wager that they're one of if not the outstanding centre half partnership in the league.
Caulker is a good player. He had a torrid second half of the season with us, and he seems to have issues off the field, and maybe they'll dog him and he'll be useless again, but he looked extremely good for Bristol City and Swansea, decent for Spurs and Cardiff and I thought he was a good signing. He'll be plenty good enough for the second tier if he stays IMO.
Onuoha's big problem is keeping fit, but again at this level he's absolutely fine. Remember the first two months of our promotion season he was amazing, people were gutted when he got injured against Brighton. |
Not sure I can agree with you on that. In open play possibly but at set pieces we'll have Caulker either smoking a fag or heading into no mans land and Onuoha invariably facing the wrong way. |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 18:16 - Jul 6 with 2146 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:31 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
No. That is bollocks.
For starters he's almost 23 and has played 34 games in the division below so let's calm down on his great lower league experience.
Even if he had, that is still untried. 'If we had signed someone his age from a league one club' he was in a league two side so the example is not exactly apt but I understand your point. That player would still be a gamble and would still be untried but you can take those risks if you have cover. So Luongo and Gladwin and JET and Petrasso might all flop but you're at least you've got options there. What IF it's Harriman that flops? Well it's all on young Furlongs shoulders and that isn't good for anyone. And that does happen fairly often, it's shown most clearly with goalscorers being unable to score despite scoring for fun in the lower leagues but the same thing can happen to other players.
Kids get ruined. Anyone who has ever worked in youth football will have stories of the great kid who never made it. There is a reason why kids are not thrown in willy nilly.
I think they will both develop into good players, they are actually my favorite prospects by far and I've been a fan of Harriman especially since he first debuted. He may be ready but if he's not it's a bad situation.
Sounds very much like everyone who told me we had sufficient cover on the wings and at fullback last year though tbf I doubt you would have.
I'd try Furlong after a year at Wycombe as a 19/20 year old with hopefully Harriman already settled and established in the squad.
I doubt our finances would prevent a back up right back on a short contract. |
I think the issue where we differ is this: If Harriman starts as our right back, and is awful for 6 games in a row, and is clearly no good (this seems unlikely - worst case scenario would be he's not quite up to it), then Furlong gets a chance. If Furlong is not quite up to snuff either, and by January all we have are two jaded, ruined young right backs who've managed to steer us to 23rd position, then we could buy a decent, proven RB in January. Or even loan one in earlier, like we did with Walker when Orr got injured.
If you're thinking next season is a big push to win the league or come top 6, I can see your point a bit more, but anyone who thinks that's even remotely on the cards I put in the same group as the people on here who thought we'd get to Europe in Hughes's second season and thought we'd come mid-table last season - hopeless optimists who get sweetly over-excited about the new season every July.
Realistically, we're looking at mid-table with, if things went really well, a late tilt at the play-offs. That's it. That's at best. They seem to be actually taking time to build a team and to do it cost-effectively. And that means we'll probably have to put up with a few things - like a young / inexperienced right back, Karl Henry in the side sometimes, and, apologies to Willow, fielding our £8m centre back most of the season. And we're going to lose. Get used to it. This is what normal teams do when they have to cut their cloth properly. If you have talented youth - use it. you don't need experience in every position. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 18:16 - Jul 6 with 2157 views | ganjR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 17:45 - Jul 6 by Seth_Gecko |
Make of this what you will but I believe we've got a 26 year old German CB with us at the moment. Whether he's having a trial or just training etc, I don't know.
Christopher Schorch.
Spent most of his recent years in the 2nd and 3rd German Leagues.
If true then we're scraping the barrel if you ask me, but might turn out to be nothing. |
Was at MSV Duisburg, most recently, so will be used to playing in the blue and white hoops (front half anyway...) |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 19:37 - Jul 6 with 2081 views | TheBlob |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:36 - Jul 6 by Northernr |
If we keep Onuoha and Caulker together I'll have a little wager that they're one of if not the outstanding centre half partnership in the league.
Caulker is a good player. He had a torrid second half of the season with us, and he seems to have issues off the field, and maybe they'll dog him and he'll be useless again, but he looked extremely good for Bristol City and Swansea, decent for Spurs and Cardiff and I thought he was a good signing. He'll be plenty good enough for the second tier if he stays IMO.
Onuoha's big problem is keeping fit, but again at this level he's absolutely fine. Remember the first two months of our promotion season he was amazing, people were gutted when he got injured against Brighton. |
Pulis is still after Caulker. |  |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 21:16 - Jul 6 with 2015 views | TacticalR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 19:37 - Jul 6 by TheBlob |
Pulis is still after Caulker. |
I hope this doesn't end in an ugly scene in a pub in Wandsworth. |  |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 08:59 - Jul 7 with 1898 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 18:16 - Jul 6 by Antti_Heinola |
I think the issue where we differ is this: If Harriman starts as our right back, and is awful for 6 games in a row, and is clearly no good (this seems unlikely - worst case scenario would be he's not quite up to it), then Furlong gets a chance. If Furlong is not quite up to snuff either, and by January all we have are two jaded, ruined young right backs who've managed to steer us to 23rd position, then we could buy a decent, proven RB in January. Or even loan one in earlier, like we did with Walker when Orr got injured.
If you're thinking next season is a big push to win the league or come top 6, I can see your point a bit more, but anyone who thinks that's even remotely on the cards I put in the same group as the people on here who thought we'd get to Europe in Hughes's second season and thought we'd come mid-table last season - hopeless optimists who get sweetly over-excited about the new season every July.
Realistically, we're looking at mid-table with, if things went really well, a late tilt at the play-offs. That's it. That's at best. They seem to be actually taking time to build a team and to do it cost-effectively. And that means we'll probably have to put up with a few things - like a young / inexperienced right back, Karl Henry in the side sometimes, and, apologies to Willow, fielding our £8m centre back most of the season. And we're going to lose. Get used to it. This is what normal teams do when they have to cut their cloth properly. If you have talented youth - use it. you don't need experience in every position. |
'I think the issue where we differ is this: If Harriman starts as our right back, and is awful for 6 games in a row, and is clearly no good (this seems unlikely - worst case scenario would be he's not quite up to it), then Furlong gets a chance. If Furlong is not quite up to snuff either, and by January all we have are two jaded, ruined young right backs who've managed to steer us to 23rd position, then we could buy a decent, proven RB in January. '
And have two jaded young players whose confidences have been wrecked. That's not a good plan.For every Walker there are 20 Aaron Hughes anyway.
Realistically we could finish absolutely anywhere and I'm a big believer in the weakest link theory. Having one position where you are getting poor performances from consistently will greatly decrease the points you'll get. We had excellent performances from a number of players last year and weren't even close to staying up.
Winning breeds winning and losing unfortunately breeds losing and if we put all our faith in them we could very much struggle.
I've still not heard of one example of a normal team going into a season without one recognised senior player at a position. You do in fact need an experienced player at every position but you don't necessarily have to use them and the actions of every club around the world appears to back that belief. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 10:27 - Jul 7 with 1835 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 08:59 - Jul 7 by Mvpeter |
'I think the issue where we differ is this: If Harriman starts as our right back, and is awful for 6 games in a row, and is clearly no good (this seems unlikely - worst case scenario would be he's not quite up to it), then Furlong gets a chance. If Furlong is not quite up to snuff either, and by January all we have are two jaded, ruined young right backs who've managed to steer us to 23rd position, then we could buy a decent, proven RB in January. '
And have two jaded young players whose confidences have been wrecked. That's not a good plan.For every Walker there are 20 Aaron Hughes anyway.
Realistically we could finish absolutely anywhere and I'm a big believer in the weakest link theory. Having one position where you are getting poor performances from consistently will greatly decrease the points you'll get. We had excellent performances from a number of players last year and weren't even close to staying up.
Winning breeds winning and losing unfortunately breeds losing and if we put all our faith in them we could very much struggle.
I've still not heard of one example of a normal team going into a season without one recognised senior player at a position. You do in fact need an experienced player at every position but you don't necessarily have to use them and the actions of every club around the world appears to back that belief. |
and as I've said at least a couple of times - Ned can play RB if things got really bad. Which they really won't.
I don't know what your definition of 'experienced' is, but I'm willing to bet when Brentford came up last year they had several young players who had never played at Championship level before, but had played plenty of games in leagues one or two. And they did ok. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 10:37 - Jul 7 with 1828 views | QPunkR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 08:59 - Jul 7 by Mvpeter |
'I think the issue where we differ is this: If Harriman starts as our right back, and is awful for 6 games in a row, and is clearly no good (this seems unlikely - worst case scenario would be he's not quite up to it), then Furlong gets a chance. If Furlong is not quite up to snuff either, and by January all we have are two jaded, ruined young right backs who've managed to steer us to 23rd position, then we could buy a decent, proven RB in January. '
And have two jaded young players whose confidences have been wrecked. That's not a good plan.For every Walker there are 20 Aaron Hughes anyway.
Realistically we could finish absolutely anywhere and I'm a big believer in the weakest link theory. Having one position where you are getting poor performances from consistently will greatly decrease the points you'll get. We had excellent performances from a number of players last year and weren't even close to staying up.
Winning breeds winning and losing unfortunately breeds losing and if we put all our faith in them we could very much struggle.
I've still not heard of one example of a normal team going into a season without one recognised senior player at a position. You do in fact need an experienced player at every position but you don't necessarily have to use them and the actions of every club around the world appears to back that belief. |
So would you *ever* have a youth team player come through to the first team? |  |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:07 - Jul 7 with 1770 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 10:27 - Jul 7 by Antti_Heinola |
and as I've said at least a couple of times - Ned can play RB if things got really bad. Which they really won't.
I don't know what your definition of 'experienced' is, but I'm willing to bet when Brentford came up last year they had several young players who had never played at Championship level before, but had played plenty of games in leagues one or two. And they did ok. |
I've said it a million times. Nedum Onohua cannot play right back. Outside of the fact that he will be third choice at the very least and therefore cannot be considered proper cover anywhere else, he does not possess enough of the attributes that are required of the position. Continually putting people in positions to fail like this is the definition of bad management.
Experienced to me would be 'has played at a level comparable to the rest of the team.' Neither of them have. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:08 - Jul 7 with 1765 views | simmo |
So no players from leagues lower than Championship. Got it.
Some of the players have played in leagues lower than Harriman - what happens then? [Post edited 7 Jul 2015 13:10]
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| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:12 - Jul 7 with 1748 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:08 - Jul 7 by simmo |
So no players from leagues lower than Championship. Got it.
Some of the players have played in leagues lower than Harriman - what happens then? [Post edited 7 Jul 2015 13:10]
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To be considered experienced championship players? Absolutely. You'd have to be a complete moron to think otherwise.
Though I reckon you're hinting at the signings of those players to which I say please show me where I suggested not signing a player based on that.
I'll give you a hint to save you some time. I didn't. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:17 - Jul 7 with 1736 views | simmo |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:12 - Jul 7 by Mvpeter |
To be considered experienced championship players? Absolutely. You'd have to be a complete moron to think otherwise.
Though I reckon you're hinting at the signings of those players to which I say please show me where I suggested not signing a player based on that.
I'll give you a hint to save you some time. I didn't. |
Well comparable to the rest of the team would be Premiership and Championship. So if they have hundreds of appearances in leagues not including those, then they can't be considered to have experience. Is that right? [Post edited 7 Jul 2015 13:17]
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| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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