| Some realities? Measuring Success 12:59 - Mar 27 with 6140 views | jacksfullaces |
The last few weeks has been a real eye opener for me in terms of re-evaluating what supporting the Swans is all about, but I think needs a bit og grounded thought.
Like many others I want my team to succeed, but am beginning to question how we measure success. For many it appears to be a winning side who plays good football, although the emphasis over a period of time is on the former. This begs the question that long term can we actually sustain the expectations of our fan base in the Premier League? As with the best will in the world it is unlikely we are going to be challenging for honours on a regular basis, and mid table safety likely to be as good as it gets. This leads to problem number 1 for many - people lose interest if we are not on an upward trajectory. (points/tables/trophies wise)
Which leads to a second point in relation to stadium expansion and attracting new fans. One of the upside of the PL is also a downside in media exposure. A team like Swansea will generally be battling to get to mid table, and that is often not a particularly attractive product to bring on new fans. In fact one can argue that attendances both home and away this year have dropped already, so a groundswell of new support is not necessarily in the offing. Appreciate more community stuff can be done but wouldn't expect this to necessarily create huge numbers.
Strangely as I write this I can therefore see some of the issues the board are having to deal with, and whilst I was as annoyed as the next person as to the almost personal vendetta that seemed to be developing betweeen Jenkins/Laudrup, I can also see that maybe they accept some of these practicalities and have to make on the face of it disappointing decisions relating to stadium expansion and player purchases. So i go back to the first questions, measuring success? jenkins et al clearly do so on football values and possibly even community values, whereas many others are doing so in terms of success, player purchases, ground size.
Is it time for people to re-evaluate how they measure success/progress if they are to continue to enjoy watching their club. I think I might have to, it doesn't mean wanting to be relegated, it robably means enjoying the moment, and accepting that even with progress we probably will be relegated at some point. For that benchmark to change, I'd be interested in some reasonable views as to what would need to happen. |  | | |  |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 01:53 - Mar 28 with 1385 views | SwansNZ |
re the OP " In fact one can argue that attendances both home and away this year have dropped already, so a groundswell of new support is not necessarily in the offing."
is that correct? I don't know what the away numbers have been like, but was stil under the impression that we sold out every home game? |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 05:20 - Mar 28 with 1367 views | dameedna |
Success for me was winning the Welsh Cup.
Not sure how much more stadium we need but sure as eggs if we do not make money we will not last long.
At the moment we are lucky to have success, whatever way that is measured.
Wins against Norwich and Hull will be HUGE. |  | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 07:24 - Mar 28 with 1348 views | Andy1300 |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 22:04 - Mar 27 by swancity |
The table was shown on Sky Sports last night, on the Footballers Football Show I think it was called
The difference between the likes of Chelsea and Manchester City and Swansea and Crystal Palace did not warrant them being in the same division. It puts our achievements into perspective. |
I saw that, our total spend was less than most teams transfer fees.
The graphics looked like giant fags |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 07:51 - Mar 28 with 1335 views | jacksinceever |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 20:15 - Mar 27 by swancity |
Recent research confirmed that we are in the bottom three in the Premier League this season in terms of transfer fees paid and salaries, with only Crystal Palace who are bottom and one other, who I think were Hull City, being below us.
Couple this with us having the smallest stadium and lowest attendances, we are punching above our weight and it demonstrates that we are, in reality, exceeding realistic expectations in 15th place.
It puts the achievements of last season into context when Michael Laudrup worked a miracle . And the year before when we surprised teams with our stylish pass and move philosophy under Brendan Rodgers.
It will get more and more difficult to stay in the PL. And of course we may go down this season. The uncertainty makes it fascinating doesn't it. Lots of fans are losing a bit of interest as the novelty value wears off but they are being replaced by new fans. Interesting times indeed. |
I know I constantly whing on about this but where are these thousands of fans desperate to see Swans play in the PL ? Still tickets available for Norwich, as with many games this season. This "build it and they will come" nonsense is old-hat.
We have IMO reached our capacity for most games |  | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 08:08 - Mar 28 with 1330 views | 1jack |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:52 - Mar 27 by exiledclaseboy |
The best way to deal with mid-table "mediocrity", which with the best will in the world is the most we can aim for if we want to stick around the Premier League for the long term, is to take each game as an individual event and enjoy it on that basis. That's easier, of course, if we're comfortably above the drop zone and don't have to look over our shoulders as we have been in the past two seasons. Not so much this one. I genuinely don't understand the untold misery our three years in the Premier League seem to have brought on a significant chunk of our fanbase. I've loved every minute of it.
Perversely I'm quite enjoying the position we find ourselves in now. Every game is massive, every point to be treasured and we're equally as interested in how the teams around us have got on as in our own result. Arsenal on Tuesday was only my second away game of the season and I celebrated the equaliser with as much gusto as I celebrated the winner against Man City at the Lib in our first season. You can't buy that kind of rush. That enjoyment will only remain with the benefit of hindsight if we kick off in the Premier League again in August though. |
You must be one of those "fan" people then. |  | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 15:31 - Mar 28 with 1286 views | jacksfullaces |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 01:53 - Mar 28 by SwansNZ |
re the OP " In fact one can argue that attendances both home and away this year have dropped already, so a groundswell of new support is not necessarily in the offing."
is that correct? I don't know what the away numbers have been like, but was stil under the impression that we sold out every home game? |
wasn't sure for certain, just seemed easier to get tkts for home games via Jack Army, and fairly sure someone did a like for like study on Away games and they have definitely dropped.
Poster just above also talking about tkts still been available for smaller teams matches up until the day before much more commonplace now.
There was always going to be a novelty factor for some, sustained a little bit by unlikely wins - I'm not getting into all this plastic nonsense as people are entitled to go to whatever games they can afford or find accessible, but novelty will wear off for some. And even the kids, our next generation of fans, will still find that the playground will be dominated by peers following the success stories, and kids work in balack/white, they won't be interested in the swans 'relative' success story when they can claim to support the PL Champions. | | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 17:47 - Mar 28 with 1245 views | Oldjack |
To become a bigger club it's a must too stay in the top flight and win the odd cup now and then ,the longer we stay there the bigger we will become but it will slowly take a long time .
I'm more than happy just surviving in this leauge along with turning over the big guns every now and then  |  |
| Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:11 - Mar 28 with 1232 views | airedale |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 17:47 - Mar 28 by Oldjack |
To become a bigger club it's a must too stay in the top flight and win the odd cup now and then ,the longer we stay there the bigger we will become but it will slowly take a long time .
I'm more than happy just surviving in this leauge along with turning over the big guns every now and then |
Yes, I think that's right. I have wondered in the past how long it would take a debt free club to achieve the status of clubs like Arsenal though. |  | | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:52 - Mar 28 with 1215 views | Oldjack |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:11 - Mar 28 by airedale |
Yes, I think that's right. I have wondered in the past how long it would take a debt free club to achieve the status of clubs like Arsenal though. |
those spoilt gits have never had troubled times like us and many others, it amazed me to hear their fans boo their team when little old Swansea town whipped their arses last year ,
Many many years of success will one day see us make it to their status [not in my lifetime though] | |
| Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:55 - Mar 28 with 1214 views | Darran |
Blimey Oldjack talking sense.
Bookmark it it's rarer than rocking horse shit. |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:04 - Mar 28 with 1210 views | Oldjack |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:55 - Mar 28 by Darran |
Blimey Oldjack talking sense.
Bookmark it it's rarer than rocking horse shit. |
I have my moments you've never had one yet kannnnnnnnttttt | |
| Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 20:11 - Mar 28 with 1190 views | NOTRAC |
I think that whilst obviously a degree of perspective is required, we should not under estimate our potential.
Whilst we struggle to compete financially on customer income because of the present limited size of our stadium,we are on a fairly even playing field with most clubs in the Premiership as far as media income is concerned, and we have an advantage on most clubs as far as debt control is concerned.
The team that I would like to compare ourselves with is Everton. They have managed to compete at the top end of the table for many years without spending huge money on transfers.Admittedly their income from customer income is probably nearly twice ours , this equates to about £10m,they have proved that it is possible for a team to maintain a consistency in performance without having the imput of vast sums from outside investors.
To achieve that consistency we need to increase the Stadium size to about 30'000 as quickly as possible, and improve our sponsorship income.
If we continue to think that we are only in this League for a limited number of years, we can only go one way and that's downwards.
If we are positive, I can't see any reason why we can't be the Everton of South Wales. | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 20:59 - Mar 28 with 1170 views | FearOfAJackPlanet |
Success for us is staying in this division. Unless we get taken over my billionaires or successfully expand to 30,000 then we're always going to be minnows in this division and fighting against the odds to stay here.
We've done amazingly in the first two years to be so comfortable while bigger richer clubs flounder into the Championship, but that shouldn't distract from that case that we're punching above our weight with our current set-up.
I still feel like I'm living a dream with the Swans at the moment. Just incredible that we are were we are. I'm sure I wasn't the only one walking up to the magnificent Emirates Stadium on Tuesday and thinking, 'holy sh*t, we're playing here, on equal terms, in the league....' and shaking their head, then going into the away end and seeing familiar faces from League 2 grounds.
My main wish in terms of attitude-adjustment from some fans is that they focus more on the club and being one of us, rather than constantly slating the team for not adhering to their Sky Sports ideal of what a Premiership player should be, or not being so insanely judgemental of the players all the time - it's so tiresome. There's a balance of course, these players are representing our club, paid loads and have the immediate fate of our club in their hands, but I wish there was more support, more pride in being a jack, more tribal pride and less of a rush to criticize and make everyone miserable.
I know this is open to 'small-time' accusations, but as I say, until we either massively expand or get taken over by the Russians, we're always going to be up against it...we're always going to be a little different....to butcher a quote from Withnail and I 'We've gone to the Premier League by mistake' |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 07:07 - Mar 29 with 1110 views | NOTRAC |
Here is a reality .It is now 55games since we last had successive wins in the league.In the whole of the football league only Tranmere with 58 games has a worse record than us. | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 07:30 - Mar 29 with 1099 views | Lord_Bony |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 07:07 - Mar 29 by NOTRAC |
Here is a reality .It is now 55games since we last had successive wins in the league.In the whole of the football league only Tranmere with 58 games has a worse record than us. |
Shoah
If true that is a brutal fact |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 09:40 - Mar 29 with 1010 views | Catullus |
I can understand why some people think we have reached capacity. games not selling out was always likely to happen.
But we can and will sell more tickets for top 6 teams and certain other games ( a good cup run, Cardiff ) and filling a capacity of at least 28000 could be achievable more regularly if our ticket prices are sensible.
And I think people aren't taking into account the last year when performances and results have been poorer overall than the previous years.
I hope we expand and I hope on doing so we see season ticket prices drop. Hopefully to a level where there is still a small overall profit but a big enough drop to entice new people in. And the possibilty of getting a seat with your mates or 2/3/4 seats together so you can take your kids would also help.
I am one of several I know who want the expansion so we can take our family along.
Of my group of friends (roughly 10 of us sit together) there would be at least 4 new season tickets if we could get seats for our kids.
I don't know how many others there are in that situation but I'd guess there are several hundred at least. | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 10:56 - Mar 29 with 1003 views | AngelRangelQS |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 23:13 - Mar 27 by Catullus |
I think most of us already knew what the "recent research" showed. Some clubs spend more on one player than we did in the whole of the transfer periods.
And we know that it'll take several of our players wages to equal the wages of just one megastar at a big club.
ECB made the point very well, he said perversely but it makes perfect sense. A lot more people have been engaged in furious debate about our current situation. Last season people were apathetic long before seasons end!!
For myself, I often enjoy the current season more in retrospect than I did "in the moment" I look back at the rise under Toshack with rose tinted glasses, which makes it an almost surreal thing. I was just 13 when we hit the old division one. I didn't understand a lot of the things, I just watched the games and enjoyed them. Now I know a lot more about it, the finances, the politics, the rules, they are all a part of the experience whereas before all I cared about was from the moment they crossed the white line until the final whistle went.
The reality is we will get relegated one day, probably. Another reality is that in some ways I enjoyed the journey to the PL more than the being there.
The club has to grow, if we want long term PL football we need more fans coming to games regularly. The facilities needed improving. You can't compete (long term) in the Pl with league two facilities.
It'll be a long time, if ever, before we pay 30 million for a player. And our upward spiral had to stop somewhere.
The truth is I have never expected us to win every game. All I have ever asked for is that we try. If we get relegated but we have gone down fighting, I can accept that. I could never accept players giving up, not trying or a manager that was happy to say we can't win those games.
When we were lower league and we played higher placed teams, we were always up for it. We did West ham at the Vetch, so I could not accept going to the Boleyn and going down with a whimper to ten men.
If we stay up this season it will have been a successful season. And even if we go down we are very well positioned to compete next time around.
Long term I hope we get bigger as a club but as long as we still have a club I will be happy. A lot happier than some other clubs supporters (Hull if the name change happens, Cardiff obviously) because our team is still Swansea City and we still play in our traditional colours.
Maybe we should adopt a motto, hope for the best but prepare for the worst? because when it comes to Premier league football, even a big gun can have a bad season. |
Absolutely 100% bang on the money |  | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 11:10 - Mar 29 with 993 views | AngelRangelQS |
Personally I think we need to use the Premier League money to improve the club wherever possible.
Invest in training grounds, youth facilities, increase the capacity by a few thousand and ensure that when we go back into the Championship we are bracketed in with the Leicester/Southampton/Reading/FEC Nottingham Forest/Middlesboroughs of this world (which in itself was a distant dream only 5 years ago), rather than your Barnsley/Yeovil/Bournemouth/Scunthorpes etc.
The current Premier League years aren't about this season or next season but the next 10-15 years. We are getting virtually all of it right or are at least on the right road. The more seasons we can stay here, the rosier the future looks, providing we stick to our principles and keep the long term picture in mind.
If some supporters don't see that, then as Darran would say, "f*ck em" | | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 11:21 - Mar 29 with 985 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 07:07 - Mar 29 by NOTRAC |
Here is a reality .It is now 55games since we last had successive wins in the league.In the whole of the football league only Tranmere with 58 games has a worse record than us. |
The only reason the likes of Cardiff and Palace don't have similar records is because they were in the Championship last season. |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 11:39 - Mar 29 with 973 views | Starsky |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 07:51 - Mar 28 by jacksinceever |
I know I constantly whing on about this but where are these thousands of fans desperate to see Swans play in the PL ? Still tickets available for Norwich, as with many games this season. This "build it and they will come" nonsense is old-hat.
We have IMO reached our capacity for most games |
Absolute Bollux |  |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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