| Central London - just back 15:55 - Jan 26 with 9980 views | BlackCrowe |
Cycled along Portland Place, Oxford St, Regent St, Piccadilly Circus etc this morning. Utterly deserted, post-apocalyptic city. Made me sad.
Half expected to see dozen or so Daleks coming up the Strand. |  |
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| Central London - just back on 09:07 - Jan 27 with 1771 views | Phildo |
TFL were losing about 5% of traffic a year before covid so this was happening already- it was causing them serious funding concerns at that time. A mate who is an architect had said to me a couple of years ago that a lot of central office space was going to end up converted to residential at some point. We remain short of residential accommodation anyway.
Lots of practical problems ahead for say the traditional professions - trainee lawyers for example had a two year apprenticeship and most have been sitting at home on their hands not learning a great deal so will qualify not knowing very much.
Very hard to model what the long term effect on business is going to be - short term gains from reduced overheads will disappear fairly quickly, tourism not going to happen this year. Some of the highest commercial rent in London was already at that big business park in Gunnersbury/Chiswick presumably because its a nice place to live and close to Heathrow whereas the Shard was struggling to let and sell units once built. London going through one of those big changes again that have happened to it through its history..... |  | | |
| Central London - just back on 09:09 - Jan 27 with 1767 views | toboboly |
| Central London - just back on 19:53 - Jan 26 by ManinBlack |
I was in Stratford last week and that was busy as usual but no idea what it is like in Piccadilly.
There are definitely less people on public transport but where I live the traffic is still heavy. I am curious about these huge skyscrapers in London if they don't contain workers. If people don't return to these towers they will look like a great waste of money as they will never be full again. Maybe a job for King Kong and a giant kitten to pull them all down.
As previously pointed out on here I do have concerns it will be easier to hire in cheaper labour from abroad if we all stay at home working. They could sack me in the coming months and get someone in Lithuania to do my job at half the salary.
One thing that has miffed me is using my electricity to operate my copier for work purposes, using my lighting and heating and continually charging the work mobile and laptop. I don't get any extra pay for all this energy use so gas and electricity bills going up. |
Get on this to reduce your costs, everyone working from home is eligible;
https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/working-at-home |  |
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| Central London - just back on 10:06 - Jan 27 with 1692 views | terryb |
I meant to quote Joe 90 & this is in reply!
This doesn't apply to all the Civil Service.
My son has to attend the office in Westminster two days one week & three days the next. He sometimes has to make a journey when working from home to attend a 30 minute meeting as well!
I think the Secretary of State should arrange these for when he is in the office! [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 10:13]
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| Central London - just back on 10:10 - Jan 27 with 1687 views | hantssi |
As I said £1.20 a week doesn’t get you much!! | | | |
| Central London - just back on 11:12 - Jan 27 with 1602 views | robith |
| Central London - just back on 20:08 - Jan 26 by Superhoops2808 |
A lot of these people forget that they are no longer paying out the extortionate commuting fares that our rail companies and Mayor charge. Thats a huge saving on its own |
Well, most of these people live in inner London, but beyond that - travel costs are a personal choice for how you get to work. Businesses costs are fixed, and it's not right for businesses to offset their costs onto me citing my own improved finances. Stand up for yourself man! |  | | |
| Central London - just back on 13:42 - Jan 27 with 1489 views | charmr |
TFL, every non journey matters | | | |
| Central London - just back on 13:42 - Jan 27 with 1482 views | toboboly |
| Central London - just back on 10:10 - Jan 27 by hantssi |
As I said £1.20 a week doesn’t get you much!! |
How many minimum wage jobs are able to work from home? Very few I imagine. | |
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| Central London - just back on 13:48 - Jan 27 with 1468 views | hantssi |
| Central London - just back on 13:42 - Jan 27 by toboboly |
How many minimum wage jobs are able to work from home? Very few I imagine. |
As I understand it you can only claim tax relief on £6 a week, so if you’re on say £40K a year you’ll get about £2 - £3 a week, still not a lot to cover the cost of heating and power! | | | |
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| Central London - just back on 13:51 - Jan 27 with 1459 views | toboboly |
| Central London - just back on 13:48 - Jan 27 by hantssi |
As I understand it you can only claim tax relief on £6 a week, so if you’re on say £40K a year you’ll get about £2 - £3 a week, still not a lot to cover the cost of heating and power! |
True but then the added savings of travel, lunch, drinks after work, etc more than make up for it for me.
Could it be better? Yes. Is it something to utilise? Yes. | |
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| Central London - just back on 13:59 - Jan 27 with 1446 views | hantssi |
| Central London - just back on 13:51 - Jan 27 by toboboly |
True but then the added savings of travel, lunch, drinks after work, etc more than make up for it for me.
Could it be better? Yes. Is it something to utilise? Yes. |
Agree, but I think you have to prove you have to work from home not if you choose to.
But, as the advert says, every little helps! | | | |
| Central London - just back on 14:05 - Jan 27 with 1435 views | Toast_R |
Not been back in my office since March 2020. Used to drive, 10 miles there, 10 miles back every day. The only thing I can't do from home is post my letters out in the mail, instead I rely on a central post room to do it for me which, had a few teething problems such as when a cog on the printer broke down and no one checked it for a week and then had to wait for a spare part another 2 weeks.
I must have saved loads on petrol. The only sad thing is not seeing the colleagues you used to get on well with. I doubt we'll ever go back to an office environment somehow. New CEO starting in April so God knows what'll happen. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 14:07]
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| Central London - just back on 14:11 - Jan 27 with 1422 views | toboboly |
| Central London - just back on 13:59 - Jan 27 by hantssi |
Agree, but I think you have to prove you have to work from home not if you choose to.
But, as the advert says, every little helps! |
They take you on your word. No evidence needed apart from presumably they check your council tax etc.
Also each person in the house can apply so it multiplies the more people living and working at the address. | |
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| Central London - just back on 14:30 - Jan 27 with 1382 views | WestbourneR |
| Central London - just back on 16:44 - Jan 26 by Northernr |
Very interesting what happens to the middle of cities in general after this.
My day job is based in a big open plan office in EC2A near Liverpool street, and that job involves talking to lots of television broadcasters, production companies and distributors on exactly how they're coping with this and what they think business will look like on the other side. To a man/woman, both at my company and the ones we talk to in interviews, they're saying the 'culture of presenteeism' (sorry, wnky TV term) is over. The idea that you're not at work unless you're at work, that the day is 9 to 5, that if you're not at your desk, in an expensive office, in the middle of London, then you're skiving. That's over.
Stuff you're watching on television now was edited at home back in April and May - mostly programmes about Devon and fcking Cornwall because they could still film there. Production companies, basically in one week in March, flipped from having big central London offices full of edit suites, to having editors sitting at home communicating with each other on Zoom. If you can do television production at home, you can certainly staff a call centre, or a recruitment firm, or an insurance business. One of my mates is an investment banker, now has a big Bloomberg terminal in the corner of his living room, hasn't been to the office for months.
It will be flexible working, flexible hours, downsizing on office space, reducing travel moving forwards. It's cheaper, it's better for the einvironment, it's better for parents, it's better for you health, and so on and on. I aint going back to the office five days a week. No way. Pay £200+ a month to cram myself into the Northern Line, or cycle down our deathtrap roads in the dark depths of winter, no fcking way. I've shown my company I'm actrually more productive at home. I'll do 3 days one week and 2 the next, or something like that.
What that means for city centres though, and things like TFL's revenues, chains of sandwich shops, businesses that rely on several million people people dragging their arse into a few square miles every day, will be interesting/terrifying.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I agree no one wants to go back to the needless 5 day a week crammed commute slog into central London but I find all this working from home generally depressing. We all live in our little boxes now. Imagine what it's like for a young person just starting out in work? The social scene, the new friends etc.
Also, you mention broadcasting, I make TV programmes and working with an editor remotely is miserable. I also think the creative product is inferior.
Anyway, overall I agree, it's changed and it's changed forever. You say you'll go back to 2 or 3 days a week Northern but I'm worried most people won't ever come back.
And that raises THIS...
'What that means for city centres though, and things like TFL's revenues, chains of sandwich shops, businesses that rely on several million people people dragging their arse into a few square miles every day, will be interesting/terrifying.'
The City of London and central London in general is the heartbeat of our economy. The tax revenues we're lost must be staggering.
Commercial property is going to be a massacre - all those huge shiny glass buildings, empty forever. It's nuts.
But in some ways it's weirder it took a pandemic for everyone to realise it's crazy that with all the modern tech we all still traipsed in to sit next to each other and send emails. It was silly and it's was always going to change - but now it's just changed overnight.
Can you think of bigger white elephant that Cross Rail / Elizabethan Line now??? |  |
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| Central London - just back on 14:36 - Jan 27 with 1363 views | PinnerPaul |
| Central London - just back on 16:50 - Jan 26 by SimonJames |
I can't help thinking that companies will start off with good intentions, but over the course of 4-5 years will drift back to a culture of presenteeism. |
Maybe not when they see how much money they save?
Difficult to predict, but can't see it ever going back to what it was pre covid. | | | |
| Central London - just back on 14:48 - Jan 27 with 1342 views | Northernr |
| Central London - just back on 14:30 - Jan 27 by WestbourneR |
I agree no one wants to go back to the needless 5 day a week crammed commute slog into central London but I find all this working from home generally depressing. We all live in our little boxes now. Imagine what it's like for a young person just starting out in work? The social scene, the new friends etc.
Also, you mention broadcasting, I make TV programmes and working with an editor remotely is miserable. I also think the creative product is inferior.
Anyway, overall I agree, it's changed and it's changed forever. You say you'll go back to 2 or 3 days a week Northern but I'm worried most people won't ever come back.
And that raises THIS...
'What that means for city centres though, and things like TFL's revenues, chains of sandwich shops, businesses that rely on several million people people dragging their arse into a few square miles every day, will be interesting/terrifying.'
The City of London and central London in general is the heartbeat of our economy. The tax revenues we're lost must be staggering.
Commercial property is going to be a massacre - all those huge shiny glass buildings, empty forever. It's nuts.
But in some ways it's weirder it took a pandemic for everyone to realise it's crazy that with all the modern tech we all still traipsed in to sit next to each other and send emails. It was silly and it's was always going to change - but now it's just changed overnight.
Can you think of bigger white elephant that Cross Rail / Elizabethan Line now??? |
HS2. Already arguably a huge expense we can't afford, theyve quietly snuck through an ammendment this week that says for the first multiple years it'll be tipping the passengers that do use it out at Old Oak Common, not Euston. |  | | |
| Central London - just back on 14:57 - Jan 27 with 1321 views | Konk |
| Central London - just back on 14:30 - Jan 27 by WestbourneR |
I agree no one wants to go back to the needless 5 day a week crammed commute slog into central London but I find all this working from home generally depressing. We all live in our little boxes now. Imagine what it's like for a young person just starting out in work? The social scene, the new friends etc.
Also, you mention broadcasting, I make TV programmes and working with an editor remotely is miserable. I also think the creative product is inferior.
Anyway, overall I agree, it's changed and it's changed forever. You say you'll go back to 2 or 3 days a week Northern but I'm worried most people won't ever come back.
And that raises THIS...
'What that means for city centres though, and things like TFL's revenues, chains of sandwich shops, businesses that rely on several million people people dragging their arse into a few square miles every day, will be interesting/terrifying.'
The City of London and central London in general is the heartbeat of our economy. The tax revenues we're lost must be staggering.
Commercial property is going to be a massacre - all those huge shiny glass buildings, empty forever. It's nuts.
But in some ways it's weirder it took a pandemic for everyone to realise it's crazy that with all the modern tech we all still traipsed in to sit next to each other and send emails. It was silly and it's was always going to change - but now it's just changed overnight.
Can you think of bigger white elephant that Cross Rail / Elizabethan Line now??? |
I don't think working from home appeals to everyone. I know quite a few people working in the creative industries, who choose to rent a desk in an office full of other people working in the similar fields, because they don't want to separate work from home, they want the company of other people during the day, and because of the connections they often form from going into a shared workspace. If I was working from home 5 days a week, I think that's something I'd look to do.
If I lived in London, but from elsewhere, and I was thinking about starting a family, if I had the option, then I'd keep my London wage, move closer to my family, and in most cases, be able to buy a house in a decent area. The alternative is to dream about being able to afford £500k for a 2 bedroom flat in Wood Green, and then stressing about childcare costs and arrangements. Travel down to London as and when you really need to.
London is one of the greatest cities in the world, and I love it to bits, but the expense of housing just isn't sustainable, and will increasingly make people think twice about either moving there or about moving away. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Central London - just back on 14:58 - Jan 27 with 1315 views | WestbourneR |
| Central London - just back on 14:48 - Jan 27 by Northernr |
HS2. Already arguably a huge expense we can't afford, theyve quietly snuck through an ammendment this week that says for the first multiple years it'll be tipping the passengers that do use it out at Old Oak Common, not Euston. |
I think that might be good news for me - because we've bought a house in the wrong end of Kensal Rise, so we really need Old Oak Common to come good.
I know HS2 is a waste of time from an infrastructure point of view but I'd actually still do it. We need government funded projects to drive employment and the recovery.
I don't know if anyone is interested but I've been reading about Modern Monetary Theory. Basically it's an increasingly popular idea with economists that if you run your own currency then you should print/create money for paid employment and create a feedback loop. Ignore national debt, it's a pointless fiction. Just make your own money and employ people... or something like that...
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/4/16/18251646/modern-monetary-theory-new
With that in mind I think the government should pay for a scheme for all Grenfell cladding to be removed from all properties, private or public. The stuff is bloody everywhere. | |
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| Central London - just back on 15:41 - Jan 27 with 1232 views | kensalriser |
I have a feeling one fallout from all this will be middle managers - you know, the sort that likes to forever wander around the office and because they don't do any actual work but love to show how smart, capable and in control they are, is forever holding meetings that stop people who actually do the work from doing any work. The office served as the tide and now the tide has gone out, they'll be exposed as swimming naked. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 15:43]
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| Central London - just back on 15:49 - Jan 27 with 1212 views | Toast_R |
There is one small dilemma though as mentioned on a post above. Recruitment. How do you hold interviews from home? How do you train new member of staff from home because doing that remotely is just fanciful bollocks?
We had a couple of apprentices start unde the NVQ scheme or whatever it is now, luckily they got a good 6 months in the office before Covid hit. They quite enjoyed the job and the office environment and learnt quite a lot shadowing members of staff before being given their own cases to be getting on with with the advantage that there was always someone around to ask if they needed help.
Now forced to work from home and still relatively new to the job, they have to Skype managers when their stuck on something now and that's never pleasant as you don't want to let on to your senior all the time that you need help. Having emailed them from time to time to see how theyre getting on, sadly they really don't enjoy the job anymore.
Could be worse I suppose, one of them used to work at Debenham. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 15:56]
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| Central London - just back on 15:54 - Jan 27 with 1194 views | Northernr |
| Central London - just back on 15:49 - Jan 27 by Toast_R |
There is one small dilemma though as mentioned on a post above. Recruitment. How do you hold interviews from home? How do you train new member of staff from home because doing that remotely is just fanciful bollocks?
We had a couple of apprentices start unde the NVQ scheme or whatever it is now, luckily they got a good 6 months in the office before Covid hit. They quite enjoyed the job and the office environment and learnt quite a lot shadowing members of staff before being given their own cases to be getting on with with the advantage that there was always someone around to ask if they needed help.
Now forced to work from home and still relatively new to the job, they have to Skype managers when their stuck on something now and that's never pleasant as you don't want to let on to your senior all the time that you need help. Having emailed them from time to time to see how theyre getting on, sadly they really don't enjoy the job anymore.
Could be worse I suppose, one of them used to work at Debenham. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 15:56]
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Yeh it's a process that I've just gone through and it is less than ideal. Still haven't met my two newbies, they're settling in well but it's difficult to teach a new job like this.
Also a fairly terrifying risk having to put your name to a hiring decision, and the money the company is investing in it, when you haven't met a person. We'd usually do an interview, a trial day, and a lunch/drinks with candidates. | | | |
| Central London - just back on 16:04 - Jan 27 with 1167 views | toboboly |
| Central London - just back on 14:57 - Jan 27 by Konk |
I don't think working from home appeals to everyone. I know quite a few people working in the creative industries, who choose to rent a desk in an office full of other people working in the similar fields, because they don't want to separate work from home, they want the company of other people during the day, and because of the connections they often form from going into a shared workspace. If I was working from home 5 days a week, I think that's something I'd look to do.
If I lived in London, but from elsewhere, and I was thinking about starting a family, if I had the option, then I'd keep my London wage, move closer to my family, and in most cases, be able to buy a house in a decent area. The alternative is to dream about being able to afford £500k for a 2 bedroom flat in Wood Green, and then stressing about childcare costs and arrangements. Travel down to London as and when you really need to.
London is one of the greatest cities in the world, and I love it to bits, but the expense of housing just isn't sustainable, and will increasingly make people think twice about either moving there or about moving away. |
I have flat for sale near Wood Green for significantly less than £500k if it helps?
Please. | |
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| Central London - just back on 16:11 - Jan 27 with 1154 views | MrSheen |
| Central London - just back on 15:54 - Jan 27 by Northernr |
Yeh it's a process that I've just gone through and it is less than ideal. Still haven't met my two newbies, they're settling in well but it's difficult to teach a new job like this.
Also a fairly terrifying risk having to put your name to a hiring decision, and the money the company is investing in it, when you haven't met a person. We'd usually do an interview, a trial day, and a lunch/drinks with candidates. |
Survival of the fittest.
https://images.thestar.com/ZQXSb84iEsKX2QW5A9LVoeGQIYE=/1086x688/smart/filters:c 
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| Central London - just back on 16:12 - Jan 27 with 1151 views | simmo |
| Central London - just back on 15:49 - Jan 27 by Toast_R |
There is one small dilemma though as mentioned on a post above. Recruitment. How do you hold interviews from home? How do you train new member of staff from home because doing that remotely is just fanciful bollocks?
We had a couple of apprentices start unde the NVQ scheme or whatever it is now, luckily they got a good 6 months in the office before Covid hit. They quite enjoyed the job and the office environment and learnt quite a lot shadowing members of staff before being given their own cases to be getting on with with the advantage that there was always someone around to ask if they needed help.
Now forced to work from home and still relatively new to the job, they have to Skype managers when their stuck on something now and that's never pleasant as you don't want to let on to your senior all the time that you need help. Having emailed them from time to time to see how theyre getting on, sadly they really don't enjoy the job anymore.
Could be worse I suppose, one of them used to work at Debenham. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 15:56]
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It's a pain for sure and is worse for some industries than others, but as you say it's impossible to train and develop somebody beyond the level of 'functional' without that face to face stuff.
Here the process of interviewing is similar - phone calls, presentations, offline tasks, etc. It used to be a mix of calls/video chats and then at least one face to face stage to get a proper feel for them, show them the office, take them for a beer, etc. Now it's all remote but it's not too bad and actually speeds up the process and requires less 'sneaking around' from those still employed.
The main issue is onboarding and training once people are actually hired, for all the things you've mentioned above. We have a new defined process that's adequate (if not ideal) and also use tools like Slack - which is like a work version of MSN messenger or Whatsapp - where people can ask or discuss the little things that come up that they might be worried to put into an email or call a meeting for.
Overall though it's just not the same and I feel for people making the leap into something new where their development is essentially on hold. |  |
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| Central London - just back on 16:25 - Jan 27 with 1122 views | xianwol |
This has implications that we can barely contemplate. Clive is right that central London will never be the same again. God knows what will happen to all that office space, much of which is wholly unsuitable to conversion to residential at a reasonable cost.No one I speak to is going to go back to the office five days per week. I write about the railways for a living and the impact on that industry will be particular severe. Any notion that it will all go back to normal is wrong.
I do find it mostly utterly depressing. Towns and cities are the cradle of civilisation and intermingling with each other is a basic human activity, fundamental to our wellbeing. | | | |
| Central London - just back on 16:38 - Jan 27 with 1097 views | hantssi |
| Central London - just back on 14:11 - Jan 27 by toboboly |
They take you on your word. No evidence needed apart from presumably they check your council tax etc.
Also each person in the house can apply so it multiplies the more people living and working at the address. |
Unfortunately I’m self employed therefore home based, my wife is a teacher, son in IT and daughter is at Uni but living at home, so nothing for little old me!!
I used to go out and about but that mileage is chargeable to my client so I’m slightly worse off but working, so not complaining! | | | |
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