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It’s so difficult what to make of this side. There is clearly the potential there. On the ball we can be (not always) sharp and electric in possession and going forward. A good mate of mine who is a Watford fan reckoned we were the best footballing side they’ve played so far...but he thought out left back (Wallace) was very poor (“genuinely, who is he? Is he a professional? He’s so far out of his depth.”)
I think this squad/side is so close to being genuine play off contenders. I really do. BOS is one of the best players in the league. Chair could be. Willock could be. Dickie and Dieng could become genuine leaders at this level, for any side. We’re close.
Frustratingly the bits we lack should for the easiest things to solve; they’re the things other teams do as basics. Comfortably ahead, kill the game. Set pieces, defend them properly. Deal with high balls. Don’t give away penalties. Do all 3 and we’d be top 6. Do 2 and we’re top 10.
We do all the harder stuff better than most sides in the league.
It’s really promising, certainly better than being a Karanka style side, but it’s also intensely frustrating.
It’s so difficult what to make of this side. There is clearly the potential there. On the ball we can be (not always) sharp and electric in possession and going forward. A good mate of mine who is a Watford fan reckoned we were the best footballing side they’ve played so far...but he thought out left back (Wallace) was very poor (“genuinely, who is he? Is he a professional? He’s so far out of his depth.”)
I think this squad/side is so close to being genuine play off contenders. I really do. BOS is one of the best players in the league. Chair could be. Willock could be. Dickie and Dieng could become genuine leaders at this level, for any side. We’re close.
Frustratingly the bits we lack should for the easiest things to solve; they’re the things other teams do as basics. Comfortably ahead, kill the game. Set pieces, defend them properly. Deal with high balls. Don’t give away penalties. Do all 3 and we’d be top 6. Do 2 and we’re top 10.
We do all the harder stuff better than most sides in the league.
It’s really promising, certainly better than being a Karanka style side, but it’s also intensely frustrating.
I'm a big Warburton fan too, but on this note I always wonder what we could have achieved last season with that forward line of Eze/Samuel/Chair/Wells/Hugill if only we'd had a Richard Dunne or a Clint Hill type, plus a goalie that didn't give away games four or five times. Not likely to see the likes of those five thundering forward again, and we threw away so many points.
All massively unfair on the manager of course, he did an amazing job considering we were all expecting a relegation battle, and the lockdown f--ked a proper play off push in the making.
It’s so difficult what to make of this side. There is clearly the potential there. On the ball we can be (not always) sharp and electric in possession and going forward. A good mate of mine who is a Watford fan reckoned we were the best footballing side they’ve played so far...but he thought out left back (Wallace) was very poor (“genuinely, who is he? Is he a professional? He’s so far out of his depth.”)
I think this squad/side is so close to being genuine play off contenders. I really do. BOS is one of the best players in the league. Chair could be. Willock could be. Dickie and Dieng could become genuine leaders at this level, for any side. We’re close.
Frustratingly the bits we lack should for the easiest things to solve; they’re the things other teams do as basics. Comfortably ahead, kill the game. Set pieces, defend them properly. Deal with high balls. Don’t give away penalties. Do all 3 and we’d be top 6. Do 2 and we’re top 10.
We do all the harder stuff better than most sides in the league.
It’s really promising, certainly better than being a Karanka style side, but it’s also intensely frustrating.
Haven't watched the game tonight but followed Brians updates. I did watch Hibs v St Johnstone and after drawing they moved up to 3rd, sounds good but it is far from it as Jack Ross is desperate to do all the dour things in a game which can cement you in that safe position at the top. Under Alan Stubbs and Neil Lennon Hibs could (and did) beat or draw with Celtic and Rangers but inexplicably chuck away points against seemingly easier teams, it was unpredictable and exciting. My fear is Jack Ross is trying to make us the new Aberdeen. Boring, pragmatic Aberdeen that grind out wins vs 4th and lower in the league but don't have any swagger or belief against the Old Firm, truly a terrible team to watch. Hibs got a point against Celtic at the weekend but it should have been a win if they'd had the balls to take advantage of their good fortune to be ahead instead of sitting back and being passive/panicking under pressure. Can't comment on tonight but be careful what you wish for HH, defending resolutely once 2 up and indulging in Preston levels of shithousery would be less stressful but ultimately is that what you want? Prestons league position is also pertinent.
Good summing up Hunter and I think it explains the differing views we all have.
On one hand it is so frustrating that the flaws keep letting us down and seem like they should be easily fixed. On the other, I really think there is potential to be challenging for the play-offs. Half-filled glass time.
I think we have (yet again) had a lot of changes and it could all start to come together in 2021.
Big shame about the injuries to Amos and Thomas, I think both could be key if fit. It'd be a big difference if BOS re-signed too but I don't see it, which is why I'd really like Thomas fit!
I’m not asking for sh*thousery, Karl. I don’t want that. I just want professionalism. I want game management. Keep the ball, play it around the back, retain it. Slow it down, regain your shape. At times in that game we’re in two banks of 4 (albeit very high banks of 4!) and we win the second ball and rather than just put our foot on it, we try to set someone loose straight away and give it straight away, whilst we’re not out of shape whilst they have loads still high up the pitch. It’s naive.
Everyone always says “don’t lose because another team out worked you.” How about “don’t let a much weaker side beat you because you kept giving them the football”??
I’m not asking for sh*thousery, Karl. I don’t want that. I just want professionalism. I want game management. Keep the ball, play it around the back, retain it. Slow it down, regain your shape. At times in that game we’re in two banks of 4 (albeit very high banks of 4!) and we win the second ball and rather than just put our foot on it, we try to set someone loose straight away and give it straight away, whilst we’re not out of shape whilst they have loads still high up the pitch. It’s naive.
Everyone always says “don’t lose because another team out worked you.” How about “don’t let a much weaker side beat you because you kept giving them the football”??
Understand. As I said no comment on this game but you saying slow it down is exactly what Hibs do and it drives me mad, not talking 100mph football but keep a tempo that suits the team. English Championship is a different situation with all the games coming thick and fast but if your team plays best at a decent pace then stick to it, particularly with 5 subs. One thing I'd ask is if you think a crowd in the ground would have been happy to see the team ease off, slow the pace and settle for 3-1 vs a likely relegation candidate? As said, cannot comment on anything that actually happened in the game. Devil's advocate perhaps
I’m not asking for sh*thousery, Karl. I don’t want that. I just want professionalism. I want game management. Keep the ball, play it around the back, retain it. Slow it down, regain your shape. At times in that game we’re in two banks of 4 (albeit very high banks of 4!) and we win the second ball and rather than just put our foot on it, we try to set someone loose straight away and give it straight away, whilst we’re not out of shape whilst they have loads still high up the pitch. It’s naive.
Everyone always says “don’t lose because another team out worked you.” How about “don’t let a much weaker side beat you because you kept giving them the football”??
I agree with you Hunter. The loose possession was killing us just before our second goal in the first half and again in the last twenty minutes of the second half. It just allowed them to bombard us and build momentum. Most teams tend to take the sting out of the game for a while when that happens. Slowing the game down, being careful to hold onto possession and play the percentages, with maybe a tiny bit of delaying throw-ins etc, though nowhere near PNE levels. And as PP said, not getting caught offside, not passing the ball to their players in dangerous areas and not rushing everything.
I agree with you Hunter. The loose possession was killing us just before our second goal in the first half and again in the last twenty minutes of the second half. It just allowed them to bombard us and build momentum. Most teams tend to take the sting out of the game for a while when that happens. Slowing the game down, being careful to hold onto possession and play the percentages, with maybe a tiny bit of delaying throw-ins etc, though nowhere near PNE levels. And as PP said, not getting caught offside, not passing the ball to their players in dangerous areas and not rushing everything.
We didn’t keep a pace up, we just kept humping it long and giving it straight back for another long ball into out back like when they were playing 4-2-4.
We just lost all calmness. I agree, when the opportunity is there to attack, do so! And at pace! That was not the second half today though, honestly. We just kept going direct, giving it back to them and then struggling to defend another long ball. Could have easily conceded 3 or 4 not 2. And it was purely down to our own making. Warburton says as much in his interview. Naivety from the players.
We should take into account that we are playing a game every 3-4 days at the moment and will be for some time to come. You might argue that It's the same for all clubs in this division but that doesn't concern me. The fact that we played last Saturday-tonight and now we've got to play this coming Friday night is somewhat ridiculous however we've got to get on with it but It must be a nightmare regarding injuries/potential injuries etcetera never mind tiredness. All in all as the OP has said 10 points from 5 games is pretty good IMO regardless of tonight's last dodgy 20 or so minutes. Gotta basically look after the squad at the moment and hope we stay injury free (Dickie as an example).
Manager has gotta earn his crust now. (not knocking him btw)
My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic.
We didn’t keep a pace up, we just kept humping it long and giving it straight back for another long ball into out back like when they were playing 4-2-4.
We just lost all calmness. I agree, when the opportunity is there to attack, do so! And at pace! That was not the second half today though, honestly. We just kept going direct, giving it back to them and then struggling to defend another long ball. Could have easily conceded 3 or 4 not 2. And it was purely down to our own making. Warburton says as much in his interview. Naivety from the players.
Is that not a experience thing? Like you I’m no fan of his and I ask myself what Cameron is there for, and I think it’s that.
There will come time when we hit the young but experienced sweet spot and we really drive on I think.
Is that not a experience thing? Like you I’m no fan of his and I ask myself what Cameron is there for, and I think it’s that.
There will come time when we hit the young but experienced sweet spot and we really drive on I think.
That’s a fair point. We definitely missed him. But I’d wager he had one of the worst pass completion %s when he went off. I think it’s more than just Geoff. He’s not your savvy possession retainer.
I just think the team doesn’t know “how” to win a game, how to deal with pressure. Carroll is experienced, as is Barbet, as is Ball. I just think we’re so unfamiliar with comfortably winning and seeing out games, they forget the basics when under fire.
Upon reflection, I think it’s another effect of losing Eze. In spite of his relative inexperience, he knew how to control a game, see it out, draw a foul, keep the ball, when we were ahead or holding on for a draw.
I'm still not sure where we are as a side, we looked diabolical after Barnsley but have been a lot better since. Even tonight we were excellent in the first half and it looked a case of how many we would win by but second half we were pretty poor again.
I think ultimately we'll finish half way again, similar to last season which given the fact we lose Eze, Hugil etc in the summer would be an excellent effort but the league is wide open this year. Blackburn are the only side we've played so far who I thought were better than us
I'm still not sure where we are as a side, we looked diabolical after Barnsley but have been a lot better since. Even tonight we were excellent in the first half and it looked a case of how many we would win by but second half we were pretty poor again.
I think ultimately we'll finish half way again, similar to last season which given the fact we lose Eze, Hugil etc in the summer would be an excellent effort but the league is wide open this year. Blackburn are the only side we've played so far who I thought were better than us
One of the downsides of the conveyor belt model is that your side is always going to be full of talented youngsters finding their feet, which is how I see this squad. It only takes one lucky season though to make it all worthwhile.
- It's a young team, relatively. - It's a team put together on a wage structure now very firmly in the bottom five in this league. - It's a team with a new goalkeeper, who's never played at this level. - It's a team with two new full backs and one new centre back, from this point last season. - It's a team with a central midfield made up of one very old pro who we brought in to do us a year three years ago, another who was seen as a crap reserve full back by our opposition tonight, and a nice little academy boy who we thought was a bit lightweight when we had him previously when him and we were good. - It's a team with an entirely new strike force, made up of a punt from Livingston, a lad from Charlton they weren't too sorry to see leave, and a kid with a questionable waistline from Southend. - It's a team that has undergone enormous turnover in players over the last three summers. I mean we laugh at Forest but we did 16 in and out last summer and then performed pretty significant surgery again this. - It's a squad that has lost a large amount of very good players at this level in a short period of time - Smithies, Luongo, Robinson, Onuoha, Freeman, Eze, Wells, Hugill, Manning.
It's not going to be consistent is it? If we were offered thirteenth place now we should fck it to death.
- It's a young team, relatively. - It's a team put together on a wage structure now very firmly in the bottom five in this league. - It's a team with a new goalkeeper, who's never played at this level. - It's a team with two new full backs and one new centre back, from this point last season. - It's a team with a central midfield made up of one very old pro who we brought in to do us a year three years ago, another who was seen as a crap reserve full back by our opposition tonight, and a nice little academy boy who we thought was a bit lightweight when we had him previously when him and we were good. - It's a team with an entirely new strike force, made up of a punt from Livingston, a lad from Charlton they weren't too sorry to see leave, and a kid with a questionable waistline from Southend. - It's a team that has undergone enormous turnover in players over the last three summers. I mean we laugh at Forest but we did 16 in and out last summer and then performed pretty significant surgery again this. - It's a squad that has lost a large amount of very good players at this level in a short period of time - Smithies, Luongo, Robinson, Onuoha, Freeman, Eze, Wells, Hugill, Manning.
It's not going to be consistent is it? If we were offered thirteenth place now we should fck it to death.
All true, but who really wants consistency?
Unless you're consistently excellent then being consistent is over rated. If this team was consistent, it'd grind its way to a bottom half finish and we'd all be bored to tears. It's all about how we get to the famed 16th place. Doing it our way - with really poor runs interspersed with some flashes of form and style - drives us mad but gives us something to dream about. We're not the finished article and not a great team (though every year we hope for a 2010), but if we're up and down and all over the place, we can see glimpses of promise and hope for progress. It keeps me going.
Much easier to see the bigger picture after a win.
Unless you're consistently excellent then being consistent is over rated. If this team was consistent, it'd grind its way to a bottom half finish and we'd all be bored to tears. It's all about how we get to the famed 16th place. Doing it our way - with really poor runs interspersed with some flashes of form and style - drives us mad but gives us something to dream about. We're not the finished article and not a great team (though every year we hope for a 2010), but if we're up and down and all over the place, we can see glimpses of promise and hope for progress. It keeps me going.
Much easier to see the bigger picture after a win.
Unless you're consistently excellent then being consistent is over rated. If this team was consistent, it'd grind its way to a bottom half finish and we'd all be bored to tears. It's all about how we get to the famed 16th place. Doing it our way - with really poor runs interspersed with some flashes of form and style - drives us mad but gives us something to dream about. We're not the finished article and not a great team (though every year we hope for a 2010), but if we're up and down and all over the place, we can see glimpses of promise and hope for progress. It keeps me going.
Much easier to see the bigger picture after a win.
I think we should at least buy thirteenth place a drink first. Bit of class innit.
As Northern points out we are still basically a bits and pieces side which is gradually coming together, and given the squad upheaval we've had every single summer for the last few seasons, the hope is that we can keep the majority of this side and have some continuity for next season and maybe then look to push for a play off place. 13th again, or a top half finish, would be a great achievement this season.
Being QPR we'll probably put in a more complete performance at Brentford, but still end up losing.
We didn’t keep a pace up, we just kept humping it long and giving it straight back for another long ball into out back like when they were playing 4-2-4.
We just lost all calmness. I agree, when the opportunity is there to attack, do so! And at pace! That was not the second half today though, honestly. We just kept going direct, giving it back to them and then struggling to defend another long ball. Could have easily conceded 3 or 4 not 2. And it was purely down to our own making. Warburton says as much in his interview. Naivety from the players.
We lost this game at home to Rotherham, when they last visited. They were a better side than the last team we played.
It's s step forward picking up the 3 points. If LR had a decent crowd for this game and given the first half performance I am sure the crowd would have pushed the team on.
I think we should at least buy thirteenth place a drink first. Bit of class innit.
As Northern points out we are still basically a bits and pieces side which is gradually coming together, and given the squad upheaval we've had every single summer for the last few seasons, the hope is that we can keep the majority of this side and have some continuity for next season and maybe then look to push for a play off place. 13th again, or a top half finish, would be a great achievement this season.
Being QPR we'll probably put in a more complete performance at Brentford, but still end up losing.
Losing with class against Brentford is no shame, given their team. Especially as they seem to go up a level against us.
That's the key to be able to keep hold of all our good young players (except almost definitely BOS) and add a couple of grizzly old pros, ideally in CH and DM.
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