| Peterson 11:05 - Jan 20 with 7313 views | 34dfgdf54 |
Loaned out to Utrecht.
Not worked for him here whatsoever. |  | | |  |
| Peterson on 15:33 - Jan 26 with 1622 views | jack247 |
| Peterson on 15:19 - Jan 26 by Nortbankboy |
Wrong dryer supplied the width with Rangel behind him.
And Rangel had no pace but is twice the player Roberts is |
Were you watching us at the time?
The point was the fullbacks supplied the width, not the wingers. |  | | |
| Peterson on 15:36 - Jan 26 with 1612 views | Nortbankboy |
| Peterson on 15:33 - Jan 26 by jack247 |
Were you watching us at the time?
The point was the fullbacks supplied the width, not the wingers. |
I'm not talking about the shyte Clement and monk served up.
I'm on about when Rodgers and Roberto played with width.
Anyway whichever way u look at it Peterson looks more dangerous going forward than roberts | | | |
| Peterson on 16:07 - Jan 26 with 1586 views | jack247 |
| Peterson on 15:36 - Jan 26 by Nortbankboy |
I'm not talking about the shyte Clement and monk served up.
I'm on about when Rodgers and Roberto played with width.
Anyway whichever way u look at it Peterson looks more dangerous going forward than roberts |
Nor am I. I’m talking about the football under Martinez, Laudrup and Rodgers. If you don’t realise that Rangel used to overlap Dyer, thus dragging defenders out of position and providing width, I’ll leave you to your belief that we played with out and out wingers in that period. | | | |
| Peterson on 23:49 - Jan 26 with 1512 views | Kilkennyjack |
Roberto used to tell tbe wingers to be so wide that their boots were actually on the touchlines. And facing the whole pitch.
You cant get wider than that. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Peterson on 23:57 - Jan 26 with 1504 views | Badlands |
| Peterson on 16:07 - Jan 26 by jack247 |
Nor am I. I’m talking about the football under Martinez, Laudrup and Rodgers. If you don’t realise that Rangel used to overlap Dyer, thus dragging defenders out of position and providing width, I’ll leave you to your belief that we played with out and out wingers in that period. |
Angel would often run outside the touchline to overlap - wonderful understanding between them.
There again Angel was a very special player working with very special managers. [Post edited 26 Jan 2020 23:57]
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| Peterson on 06:32 - Jan 27 with 1429 views | jack247 |
| Peterson on 23:49 - Jan 26 by Kilkennyjack |
Roberto used to tell tbe wingers to be so wide that their boots were actually on the touchlines. And facing the whole pitch.
You cant get wider than that. |
Martinez introduced the passing triangles to our game. The polar opposite to traditional wingers charging down the line and getting crosses in.
He liked them to position themselves there when we had the ball at the back to make the pitch as big as possible, but as soon as we started building moves, they were interchanging with midfielders and fullbacks creating 3 vs 2 and 2 vs 1 advantages. | | | |
| Peterson on 06:43 - Jan 27 with 1422 views | Dr_Winston |
We've certainly played with far more width in the past than we currently do, whether that be with wingers getting wide or using overlapping fullbacks.
The kind of shape obsessed, midfielder-as-wide-player bollocks we utilise now first started making an appearance under Monk and has rarely gone away since. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Peterson on 08:13 - Jan 27 with 1370 views | grabsplatter |
Laudrup had the 'wingers' playing narrower than previously but it was a far more fluid system with the likes of Dyer, Routledge & Pablo swapping positions.
The pass & move football was killed by Monk.
Potter to his credit did get Dyer/Routs & James to play in a similar way (West Brom away as an example) but was lacking attacking full backs.
Even when Cooper has occasionally played Dyer/Routs they've stuck fairly rigidly to their wing & not rotated. |  | | |
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| Peterson on 08:24 - Jan 27 with 1362 views | ItchySphincter |
| Peterson on 15:33 - Jan 26 by jack247 |
Were you watching us at the time?
The point was the fullbacks supplied the width, not the wingers. |
Wrong.
Up until Laudrup favoured the inside forward role of Dyer and Routledge we played wide from Martinez through to Rodgers. Nathan barely came off the touch line until he was less than 18 yards out, and Rangel was just behind with Leon coming tight to provide the triangle. It was the signature of our play. |  |
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| Peterson on 09:10 - Jan 27 with 1315 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| Peterson on 19:43 - Jan 20 by Nortbankboy |
Shame I think he could be a good player for us if he had a run of games.
Could have been ideal replacement for Celina if he goes |
Agreed I was surprised he didn't kick on? | | | |
| Peterson on 09:23 - Jan 27 with 1302 views | jack247 |
| Peterson on 08:24 - Jan 27 by ItchySphincter |
Wrong.
Up until Laudrup favoured the inside forward role of Dyer and Routledge we played wide from Martinez through to Rodgers. Nathan barely came off the touch line until he was less than 18 yards out, and Rangel was just behind with Leon coming tight to provide the triangle. It was the signature of our play. |
Fair enough. As soon as we got into attacking positions (and it was way deeper than 18 yards) he’d look to play triangles or cut inside. Greatest of respect to him, but on the rare occasions he does try to cross, he can’t get the distance. It was rare for us to get crosses in at all under Martinez (Dyer, Butler, Gower) we used to pass our way to chances.
Dyer
Routledge
Hernandez
Sinclair
James
Are probably our most prominent wingers of the last 10 years or so. None of them were the type of winger to run at a full back and get a cross in from wide. We just haven’t played that way. | | | |
| Peterson on 11:21 - Jan 27 with 1241 views | jasper_T |
Easier to pass through teams when you hold width and stretch them across the pitch. If your right winger is on the penalty spot and your right back can't take on a man teams can stay compact and defending is simpler.
You need to be a dominant team with very good attacking fullbacks to have your width provided by them alone. Can't imagine too many sides are worried about Roberts, Naughton and Bidwell getting time and space on the ball.
We were at our best last season when DJ stayed out on the left wing and we had Grimes and vdH who would find him with one quick switch of play (something Man Utd never do). The Stoke goal a great example. | | | |
| Peterson on 14:58 - Jan 27 with 1162 views | Badlands |
| Peterson on 11:21 - Jan 27 by jasper_T |
Easier to pass through teams when you hold width and stretch them across the pitch. If your right winger is on the penalty spot and your right back can't take on a man teams can stay compact and defending is simpler.
You need to be a dominant team with very good attacking fullbacks to have your width provided by them alone. Can't imagine too many sides are worried about Roberts, Naughton and Bidwell getting time and space on the ball.
We were at our best last season when DJ stayed out on the left wing and we had Grimes and vdH who would find him with one quick switch of play (something Man Utd never do). The Stoke goal a great example. |
Amen to that.
It hacks me off when the crowd moans at the players for not shooting but what may don't see is hey often have as many as 15 players fairly tightly packed between them and the goal.
Other things I can't understand are
1) why we corowd opponents 6 yard box for our corners - we don't have the arial power to benefit, the ball is usually over hit or under hit, we are an easy touch on the break.
2) why we don't have a player on the far side of the penalty area for our corners to pick up overhit corners.
3) why we don't leave 2 players just outside our box and one further forward to pick up clearances from opponents corners.
4) players standing still when thy don't have the ball. | |
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| Peterson on 16:23 - Jan 27 with 1078 views | jack247 |
| Peterson on 11:21 - Jan 27 by jasper_T |
Easier to pass through teams when you hold width and stretch them across the pitch. If your right winger is on the penalty spot and your right back can't take on a man teams can stay compact and defending is simpler.
You need to be a dominant team with very good attacking fullbacks to have your width provided by them alone. Can't imagine too many sides are worried about Roberts, Naughton and Bidwell getting time and space on the ball.
We were at our best last season when DJ stayed out on the left wing and we had Grimes and vdH who would find him with one quick switch of play (something Man Utd never do). The Stoke goal a great example. |
I know you’re just stretching a point, but no one is suggesting we played with wingers on the penalty spot while their fullback attacked on his own.
What we also haven’t done for years is played with width provided by wingers. Dyer, Sinclair, James would start on the touch line, but the moment they received possession they would invariably drive inside or look to play triangles with the fullback and closest midfielder.
We’ve had the odd game from Montero or Lamah, Garrick may end up being similar, but by in large, we haven’t played the way people are calling for for years. | | | |
| Peterson on 18:40 - Jan 27 with 1028 views | jasper_T |
| Peterson on 16:23 - Jan 27 by jack247 |
I know you’re just stretching a point, but no one is suggesting we played with wingers on the penalty spot while their fullback attacked on his own.
What we also haven’t done for years is played with width provided by wingers. Dyer, Sinclair, James would start on the touch line, but the moment they received possession they would invariably drive inside or look to play triangles with the fullback and closest midfielder.
We’ve had the odd game from Montero or Lamah, Garrick may end up being similar, but by in large, we haven’t played the way people are calling for for years. |
Does it matter if anyone is suggesting it when that's what we often see with Ayew and Roberts under Cooper?
Don't agree that DJ would "invariably drive inside". Was doing that more often than not towards the end of his time here because fullbacks would drop off an extra couple of yards, terrified of him using his pace to go beyond them. But that threat was always there and he got a good few assists (and should have been assists) getting to the byline and flashing it across with his left foot.
If you narrow your definition of winger enough to not include most of our best wide players then I guess you have a point, maybe? | | | |
| Peterson on 19:25 - Jan 27 with 988 views | jack247 |
| Peterson on 18:40 - Jan 27 by jasper_T |
Does it matter if anyone is suggesting it when that's what we often see with Ayew and Roberts under Cooper?
Don't agree that DJ would "invariably drive inside". Was doing that more often than not towards the end of his time here because fullbacks would drop off an extra couple of yards, terrified of him using his pace to go beyond them. But that threat was always there and he got a good few assists (and should have been assists) getting to the byline and flashing it across with his left foot.
If you narrow your definition of winger enough to not include most of our best wide players then I guess you have a point, maybe? |
Come off it. Ayew by the penalty spot when Bidwell/Naughton have it on the left yes. If he’s there when Roberts has it out wide, it’s either immediately after broken play, or Celina, Routledge or whoever has temporarily switched with him. Unless you’re in about the earlier games when he played between Dyer and Routledge. It’s very rare that either fullback is out wide in an attacking position without support from one of the front three and a midfielder tucked inside them.
James went inside far more than he went outside from the start. If we’d wanted him to play like a traditional wide winger, we’d have played him on the right. | | | |
| Peterson on 19:34 - Jan 27 with 968 views | jasper_T |
| Peterson on 19:25 - Jan 27 by jack247 |
Come off it. Ayew by the penalty spot when Bidwell/Naughton have it on the left yes. If he’s there when Roberts has it out wide, it’s either immediately after broken play, or Celina, Routledge or whoever has temporarily switched with him. Unless you’re in about the earlier games when he played between Dyer and Routledge. It’s very rare that either fullback is out wide in an attacking position without support from one of the front three and a midfielder tucked inside them.
James went inside far more than he went outside from the start. If we’d wanted him to play like a traditional wide winger, we’d have played him on the right. |
Go and watch the highlights of the Ipswich game. That was his first outstanding game and he was taking Pennington on the outside time and time again. Opposition players learned, and the strength of his game has always been that he's able to go either way when he's on the left.
Holding width when the ball is one the other side of the pitch is exactly what I'm talking about. Being able to stretch teams laterally and quickly move the ball from side to side is how stubborn defences are broken down. When we bunch up on the flank the ball is and in the middle it's easy to defend. | | | |
| Peterson on 20:01 - Jan 27 with 945 views | jack247 |
| Peterson on 19:34 - Jan 27 by jasper_T |
Go and watch the highlights of the Ipswich game. That was his first outstanding game and he was taking Pennington on the outside time and time again. Opposition players learned, and the strength of his game has always been that he's able to go either way when he's on the left.
Holding width when the ball is one the other side of the pitch is exactly what I'm talking about. Being able to stretch teams laterally and quickly move the ball from side to side is how stubborn defences are broken down. When we bunch up on the flank the ball is and in the middle it's easy to defend. |
Go watch highlights of his entire season. See which way he went for most of his best bits. You’ve been following his career longer than me, you’re not going to convince me that he was a touch line hugging winger though.
Second paragraph I agree with. Making the pitch as big as possible was always one of Martinez’ mantras. Original point I was making was that we hadn’t regularly played with orthodox wingers who run at the full back and whip crosses in since before our rise from the lower leagues. That’s what was being called for earlier in the thread (and quite frequently is after we lose).
I’m not suggesting the left winger shouldn’t stay wide when we attack down the right, though there is a balance. Ayew got a few goals in his first spell here drifting in and getting on the the end of crosses while the centre backs were preoccupied with Gomis. | | | |
| Peterson on 20:39 - Jan 27 with 920 views | jasper_T |
| Peterson on 20:01 - Jan 27 by jack247 |
Go watch highlights of his entire season. See which way he went for most of his best bits. You’ve been following his career longer than me, you’re not going to convince me that he was a touch line hugging winger though.
Second paragraph I agree with. Making the pitch as big as possible was always one of Martinez’ mantras. Original point I was making was that we hadn’t regularly played with orthodox wingers who run at the full back and whip crosses in since before our rise from the lower leagues. That’s what was being called for earlier in the thread (and quite frequently is after we lose).
I’m not suggesting the left winger shouldn’t stay wide when we attack down the right, though there is a balance. Ayew got a few goals in his first spell here drifting in and getting on the the end of crosses while the centre backs were preoccupied with Gomis. |
We were poor during that period as well. Limping towards relegation until Guidolin came in and changed things. | | | |
| Peterson on 21:06 - Jan 27 with 889 views | jack247 |
| Peterson on 20:39 - Jan 27 by jasper_T |
We were poor during that period as well. Limping towards relegation until Guidolin came in and changed things. |
Agreed. Though Ayew did ok. Top goal scorer I think. Mainly playing out wide. | | | |
| Peterson on 21:23 - Jan 27 with 867 views | jasper_T |
| Peterson on 21:06 - Jan 27 by jack247 |
Agreed. Though Ayew did ok. Top goal scorer I think. Mainly playing out wide. |
Exactly as he is now. Looks good in a poor team, good numbers, but then when he was dropped we suddenly weren't such a poor team.
Guidolin had him sussed. | | | |
| Peterson on 21:30 - Jan 27 with 855 views | jack247 |
| Peterson on 21:23 - Jan 27 by jasper_T |
Exactly as he is now. Looks good in a poor team, good numbers, but then when he was dropped we suddenly weren't such a poor team.
Guidolin had him sussed. |
Are you implying you think we’d be better without him? | | | |
| Peterson on 21:34 - Jan 27 with 850 views | ItchySphincter |
| Peterson on 19:25 - Jan 27 by jack247 |
Come off it. Ayew by the penalty spot when Bidwell/Naughton have it on the left yes. If he’s there when Roberts has it out wide, it’s either immediately after broken play, or Celina, Routledge or whoever has temporarily switched with him. Unless you’re in about the earlier games when he played between Dyer and Routledge. It’s very rare that either fullback is out wide in an attacking position without support from one of the front three and a midfielder tucked inside them.
James went inside far more than he went outside from the start. If we’d wanted him to play like a traditional wide winger, we’d have played him on the right. |
James always stayed wide initially until all the balls he put across the six yard went begging, either because no one had gambled or because Ollie had dropped so deep due to the non existent link from midfield. He altered his game in the last couple of months to cut inside and make chances for himself because of the wastage. | |
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| Peterson on 21:48 - Jan 27 with 839 views | jasper_T |
| Peterson on 21:30 - Jan 27 by jack247 |
Are you implying you think we’d be better without him? |
I think we'd be better if he played centre forward. But without him entirely? Maybe.
It's a team game and just because one player is putting up good numbers doesn't mean they're not a net negative to performances. Seemed very much to be the case during Andre's first spell here. | | | |
| Peterson on 22:08 - Jan 27 with 819 views | jack247 |
| Peterson on 21:34 - Jan 27 by ItchySphincter |
James always stayed wide initially until all the balls he put across the six yard went begging, either because no one had gambled or because Ollie had dropped so deep due to the non existent link from midfield. He altered his game in the last couple of months to cut inside and make chances for himself because of the wastage. |
So we’re talking maybe a quarter of a season in the last 10 years or so and it didn’t work as well as cutting inside? A lot of his chances towards the end came from his combination of pace and intelligent movement off the ball and the ability Celina and Grimes had to play him in.
If the initial plan for the season was to play him tight to the touchline, he’d have played on the other side to attack defenders and get crosses in with his stronger foot, | | | |
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