| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position 21:14 - Jan 16 with 8998 views | jackeinstein |
Does anybody else feel that Don should make a statement regarding the clubs current financial position.
We are all speculating as to what position we are in financially surely this can be sorted with an honest statement from Mr Keefe. |  | | |  |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 21:59 - Jan 16 with 7071 views | Nookiejack |
It would be great to understand the £30m of unexplained Creditors due within 1 year - that were just reported in the accounts.
Has this caused us a problem and/or cost overruns with regards to Landore/Fairwood? | | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 22:57 - Jan 16 with 6894 views | max936 |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 21:59 - Jan 16 by Nookiejack |
It would be great to understand the £30m of unexplained Creditors due within 1 year - that were just reported in the accounts.
Has this caused us a problem and/or cost overruns with regards to Landore/Fairwood? |
Just reported you say, how convenient seeing the position we now find ourselves in, must be moneys owed to the developers of the two academy sites innit, now who are they I wonder. |  |
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:24 - Jan 16 with 6818 views | Nookiejack |
Last year we had Turnover of £104m - including prize money for 8th place finish.
This year likely to be say 10 places lower - so will be a £10m drop in income.
So could say £94m Turnover expected.
If say 21 players (excluding Barrow, Fulton, Kingsley, Grimes and Tremmel) average £35k a week = £1.8m a year X 21 = £38m.
Say they average £50k a week = £2.6m a year X 21 = £55m.
Maybe then assume rest of the playing squad, academy players and coaches cost £5m (which might be conservative).
Wages of players likely to be between £43m and £60m.
Here's then the interesting thing from the last accounts - social security costs were 13% of wages (see page 15 of accounts) So I assume the club has to pay 12.8% Employees NI on players wages.
That takes an estimate of players wages and social security costs to between £49m and £68m.
You then have to estimate cost of non-playing staff - we had 307 staff (less 1st team squad, U21s, U18s plus respective coaching teams - which I have estimated above). So even if you say had 200 non playing staff at say average £20k per head plus social security costs (Huw Jenkins costs would bump up the average as he earned £0.5m) - then could amount in total to say £5m.
So you then have wages of between £54m and £73m. The last Accounts said our payroll costs were £82.5m (page 15) which was on 14 months basis and probably included some bonuses for our 8th placed finished.
Hence maybe our current wages are about £65m on 12 month basis and assume we will finish in low finishing places so will not pay out good bonuses.
You then have to estimate non payroll costs. Say these are £5m for running stadium, cars, electricity, products for bars, programmes etc. - then total costs before costs associated with player acquisition likely to amount to £70m
Now if we only expect £94m Turnover this year - then only have £24m to spend on players.
Remember we might see a headline transfer fee in press but then assume could be agents fees to pay as well as signing on fees.
Players in this financial year are Eder £5m, Tabanou £3m and Ayew (large signing on fee - plus substantial signing on fee to be paid over contract). Add Agents fees and you won't have much left out of £24m.
Also forgot about costs developing of Landore and Fairwood.
So in conclusion back of fag packet analysis gives a feel of why we don't have much money to spend on players.
If are running costs are £70m and our Turnover £94m - we only have £24m to spend on players each year - including agents fees and signing on bonuses.
£24m doesn't get you very far. | | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:31 - Jan 16 with 6767 views | Griffting |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:24 - Jan 16 by Nookiejack |
Last year we had Turnover of £104m - including prize money for 8th place finish.
This year likely to be say 10 places lower - so will be a £10m drop in income.
So could say £94m Turnover expected.
If say 21 players (excluding Barrow, Fulton, Kingsley, Grimes and Tremmel) average £35k a week = £1.8m a year X 21 = £38m.
Say they average £50k a week = £2.6m a year X 21 = £55m.
Maybe then assume rest of the playing squad, academy players and coaches cost £5m (which might be conservative).
Wages of players likely to be between £43m and £60m.
Here's then the interesting thing from the last accounts - social security costs were 13% of wages (see page 15 of accounts) So I assume the club has to pay 12.8% Employees NI on players wages.
That takes an estimate of players wages and social security costs to between £49m and £68m.
You then have to estimate cost of non-playing staff - we had 307 staff (less 1st team squad, U21s, U18s plus respective coaching teams - which I have estimated above). So even if you say had 200 non playing staff at say average £20k per head plus social security costs (Huw Jenkins costs would bump up the average as he earned £0.5m) - then could amount in total to say £5m.
So you then have wages of between £54m and £73m. The last Accounts said our payroll costs were £82.5m (page 15) which was on 14 months basis and probably included some bonuses for our 8th placed finished.
Hence maybe our current wages are about £65m on 12 month basis and assume we will finish in low finishing places so will not pay out good bonuses.
You then have to estimate non payroll costs. Say these are £5m for running stadium, cars, electricity, products for bars, programmes etc. - then total costs before costs associated with player acquisition likely to amount to £70m
Now if we only expect £94m Turnover this year - then only have £24m to spend on players.
Remember we might see a headline transfer fee in press but then assume could be agents fees to pay as well as signing on fees.
Players in this financial year are Eder £5m, Tabanou £3m and Ayew (large signing on fee - plus substantial signing on fee to be paid over contract). Add Agents fees and you won't have much left out of £24m.
Also forgot about costs developing of Landore and Fairwood.
So in conclusion back of fag packet analysis gives a feel of why we don't have much money to spend on players.
If are running costs are £70m and our Turnover £94m - we only have £24m to spend on players each year - including agents fees and signing on bonuses.
£24m doesn't get you very far. |
What about profit we have made over the previous 4 seasons of being in the prem? did we make any? Granted wages, singing fees and some transfers went quite high the last two but the first two seasons we were very profitable surely? Is there nothing tucked away for the rainy days we now find ourselves at? |  | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:33 - Jan 16 with 6742 views | max936 |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:24 - Jan 16 by Nookiejack |
Last year we had Turnover of £104m - including prize money for 8th place finish.
This year likely to be say 10 places lower - so will be a £10m drop in income.
So could say £94m Turnover expected.
If say 21 players (excluding Barrow, Fulton, Kingsley, Grimes and Tremmel) average £35k a week = £1.8m a year X 21 = £38m.
Say they average £50k a week = £2.6m a year X 21 = £55m.
Maybe then assume rest of the playing squad, academy players and coaches cost £5m (which might be conservative).
Wages of players likely to be between £43m and £60m.
Here's then the interesting thing from the last accounts - social security costs were 13% of wages (see page 15 of accounts) So I assume the club has to pay 12.8% Employees NI on players wages.
That takes an estimate of players wages and social security costs to between £49m and £68m.
You then have to estimate cost of non-playing staff - we had 307 staff (less 1st team squad, U21s, U18s plus respective coaching teams - which I have estimated above). So even if you say had 200 non playing staff at say average £20k per head plus social security costs (Huw Jenkins costs would bump up the average as he earned £0.5m) - then could amount in total to say £5m.
So you then have wages of between £54m and £73m. The last Accounts said our payroll costs were £82.5m (page 15) which was on 14 months basis and probably included some bonuses for our 8th placed finished.
Hence maybe our current wages are about £65m on 12 month basis and assume we will finish in low finishing places so will not pay out good bonuses.
You then have to estimate non payroll costs. Say these are £5m for running stadium, cars, electricity, products for bars, programmes etc. - then total costs before costs associated with player acquisition likely to amount to £70m
Now if we only expect £94m Turnover this year - then only have £24m to spend on players.
Remember we might see a headline transfer fee in press but then assume could be agents fees to pay as well as signing on fees.
Players in this financial year are Eder £5m, Tabanou £3m and Ayew (large signing on fee - plus substantial signing on fee to be paid over contract). Add Agents fees and you won't have much left out of £24m.
Also forgot about costs developing of Landore and Fairwood.
So in conclusion back of fag packet analysis gives a feel of why we don't have much money to spend on players.
If are running costs are £70m and our Turnover £94m - we only have £24m to spend on players each year - including agents fees and signing on bonuses.
£24m doesn't get you very far. |
Have we spent to much and did we need to spend so much on the academy at this point it time? cause it seems to have been done at the expense of the first tam squad, which is irresponsibly stupid given that our main source of income comes from the first team playing in the Premiership. | |
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:34 - Jan 16 with 6742 views | Nookiejack |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 22:57 - Jan 16 by max936 |
Just reported you say, how convenient seeing the position we now find ourselves in, must be moneys owed to the developers of the two academy sites innit, now who are they I wonder. |
Jackonicko pointed the £30m Other Creditors out on page 22.
I don't think it is to do with Jaxx Ltd as club only appeared to owe that company £400k at Balance Sheet date.
Club does appear to have purchased good and services off that company amounting to £4.2m over last two years.
But from above can only estimate that out of the £30m only £400k is owed to Jaxx. (The £400k could of course be reported in some of the Creditors categories not related to Other Creditors). | | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:41 - Jan 16 with 6714 views | max936 |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:34 - Jan 16 by Nookiejack |
Jackonicko pointed the £30m Other Creditors out on page 22.
I don't think it is to do with Jaxx Ltd as club only appeared to owe that company £400k at Balance Sheet date.
Club does appear to have purchased good and services off that company amounting to £4.2m over last two years.
But from above can only estimate that out of the £30m only £400k is owed to Jaxx. (The £400k could of course be reported in some of the Creditors categories not related to Other Creditors). |
My cynical mind tells me somin different. | |
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:47 - Jan 16 with 6669 views | monmouth |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:34 - Jan 16 by Nookiejack |
Jackonicko pointed the £30m Other Creditors out on page 22.
I don't think it is to do with Jaxx Ltd as club only appeared to owe that company £400k at Balance Sheet date.
Club does appear to have purchased good and services off that company amounting to £4.2m over last two years.
But from above can only estimate that out of the £30m only £400k is owed to Jaxx. (The £400k could of course be reported in some of the Creditors categories not related to Other Creditors). |
Related party transactions?
I thought we paid all of the bonus for finishing position into the player/manager pool? That's how we kept the wages a bit lower and managed a bit of the risk? I may have just read that on here.
I wouldn't expect the FD of any private limited company to explain the accounts publicly. They are out of date now anyway. The Supporter Director (and other board members) would presumably ask any pointed questions of the FD or the auditors to satisfy himself that we are being run in a prudent manner in line with the preferred strategy, whatever that is these days. That's up to the board to set. The SD is there to wave any red flags regarding the long term security of the club surely, though I can't believe Jenks et al would ever put that at risk.
I'm more worried about what's happening on the grass to be honest. When it comes to the Swans, I'm a supporter, not an accountant. |  |
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:05 - Jan 17 with 6600 views | Swanseajill |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:24 - Jan 16 by Nookiejack |
Last year we had Turnover of £104m - including prize money for 8th place finish.
This year likely to be say 10 places lower - so will be a £10m drop in income.
So could say £94m Turnover expected.
If say 21 players (excluding Barrow, Fulton, Kingsley, Grimes and Tremmel) average £35k a week = £1.8m a year X 21 = £38m.
Say they average £50k a week = £2.6m a year X 21 = £55m.
Maybe then assume rest of the playing squad, academy players and coaches cost £5m (which might be conservative).
Wages of players likely to be between £43m and £60m.
Here's then the interesting thing from the last accounts - social security costs were 13% of wages (see page 15 of accounts) So I assume the club has to pay 12.8% Employees NI on players wages.
That takes an estimate of players wages and social security costs to between £49m and £68m.
You then have to estimate cost of non-playing staff - we had 307 staff (less 1st team squad, U21s, U18s plus respective coaching teams - which I have estimated above). So even if you say had 200 non playing staff at say average £20k per head plus social security costs (Huw Jenkins costs would bump up the average as he earned £0.5m) - then could amount in total to say £5m.
So you then have wages of between £54m and £73m. The last Accounts said our payroll costs were £82.5m (page 15) which was on 14 months basis and probably included some bonuses for our 8th placed finished.
Hence maybe our current wages are about £65m on 12 month basis and assume we will finish in low finishing places so will not pay out good bonuses.
You then have to estimate non payroll costs. Say these are £5m for running stadium, cars, electricity, products for bars, programmes etc. - then total costs before costs associated with player acquisition likely to amount to £70m
Now if we only expect £94m Turnover this year - then only have £24m to spend on players.
Remember we might see a headline transfer fee in press but then assume could be agents fees to pay as well as signing on fees.
Players in this financial year are Eder £5m, Tabanou £3m and Ayew (large signing on fee - plus substantial signing on fee to be paid over contract). Add Agents fees and you won't have much left out of £24m.
Also forgot about costs developing of Landore and Fairwood.
So in conclusion back of fag packet analysis gives a feel of why we don't have much money to spend on players.
If are running costs are £70m and our Turnover £94m - we only have £24m to spend on players each year - including agents fees and signing on bonuses.
£24m doesn't get you very far. |
£24 million will eat way very quickly, considering the club have over 3,000 staff in total.
Seems an enormous amount of staff is needed for premier league football. |  | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:08 - Jan 17 with 6593 views | ItchySphincter |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:05 - Jan 17 by Swanseajill |
£24 million will eat way very quickly, considering the club have over 3,000 staff in total.
Seems an enormous amount of staff is needed for premier league football. |
3,000 staff? Where'd you get that from? |  |
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:16 - Jan 17 with 6556 views | Swanseajill |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:08 - Jan 17 by ItchySphincter |
3,000 staff? Where'd you get that from? |
From a Trust meeting recently.
A Google search will confirm it. It shocked me when I heard it first.
Myra in the Vetch with her S.T. shoe box in the club shop seems worlds away today. | | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:16 - Jan 17 with 6556 views | morningstar |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:34 - Jan 16 by Nookiejack |
Jackonicko pointed the £30m Other Creditors out on page 22.
I don't think it is to do with Jaxx Ltd as club only appeared to owe that company £400k at Balance Sheet date.
Club does appear to have purchased good and services off that company amounting to £4.2m over last two years.
But from above can only estimate that out of the £30m only £400k is owed to Jaxx. (The £400k could of course be reported in some of the Creditors categories not related to Other Creditors). |
For F***s sake do one you absolute f***IN boring tw*t! That's all you ever go on about is f***in finances! What are you trying to say? Whatever is on your mind spit it out and stop fannying about. Fact is we are in the relegation zone, no manager so to speak, players being sold, players who don't give a sh*t, and that's all you want to talk about is some poxy f***in balance sheet incorporating Jaxx f**kin ltd. F**K off you Twa*. |  |
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:18 - Jan 17 with 6546 views | Nookiejack |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:47 - Jan 16 by monmouth |
Related party transactions?
I thought we paid all of the bonus for finishing position into the player/manager pool? That's how we kept the wages a bit lower and managed a bit of the risk? I may have just read that on here.
I wouldn't expect the FD of any private limited company to explain the accounts publicly. They are out of date now anyway. The Supporter Director (and other board members) would presumably ask any pointed questions of the FD or the auditors to satisfy himself that we are being run in a prudent manner in line with the preferred strategy, whatever that is these days. That's up to the board to set. The SD is there to wave any red flags regarding the long term security of the club surely, though I can't believe Jenks et al would ever put that at risk.
I'm more worried about what's happening on the grass to be honest. When it comes to the Swans, I'm a supporter, not an accountant. |
Yes very fair
Quite interesting though to estimate how much we have each year for new players - if we don't make any money and/or costs of existing ones just amortise away over their contracts.
Probably is between £20m and £30m - based on £94m Turnover. (Happy to be corrected on this).
Hence why:-
1. Only bought Eder, Tabanou and Ayew + agents fees etc
2. Have to sell a player like Shelvey before we can replace him
3. Can't really make many mistakes with regards to key signings - as don't then have financial capacity to correct them | | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:19 - Jan 17 with 6539 views | ItchySphincter |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:16 - Jan 17 by Swanseajill |
From a Trust meeting recently.
A Google search will confirm it. It shocked me when I heard it first.
Myra in the Vetch with her S.T. shoe box in the club shop seems worlds away today. |
I'm going to have to try to get down to the next trust meeting. | |
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:24 - Jan 17 with 6517 views | Nookiejack |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:16 - Jan 17 by morningstar |
For F***s sake do one you absolute f***IN boring tw*t! That's all you ever go on about is f***in finances! What are you trying to say? Whatever is on your mind spit it out and stop fannying about. Fact is we are in the relegation zone, no manager so to speak, players being sold, players who don't give a sh*t, and that's all you want to talk about is some poxy f***in balance sheet incorporating Jaxx f**kin ltd. F**K off you Twa*. |
...add in the redundancies for Gary Monk and his team | | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:30 - Jan 17 with 6486 views | Nookiejack |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:24 - Jan 17 by Nookiejack |
...add in the redundancies for Gary Monk and his team |
...apologies Garry Monk | | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:51 - Jan 17 with 6414 views | monmouth |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:16 - Jan 17 by morningstar |
For F***s sake do one you absolute f***IN boring tw*t! That's all you ever go on about is f***in finances! What are you trying to say? Whatever is on your mind spit it out and stop fannying about. Fact is we are in the relegation zone, no manager so to speak, players being sold, players who don't give a sh*t, and that's all you want to talk about is some poxy f***in balance sheet incorporating Jaxx f**kin ltd. F**K off you Twa*. |
The tourettes version of the last two lines of my post.
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 08:00 - Jan 17 with 6217 views | Dr_Winston |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:31 - Jan 17 by Swanseajill |
On here, many calculate the cost. of players wages, signing on fees, agents fees. and backrom staff.
But we now have 3 stadiums ( of sorts) to staff. commercial staff, ticket office staff, secretary's, Stewards, Security staff and all the rest of the gubbings. Only go so far in a large business to fund wages.
Our ST or match day tickets don't begin to cover outgoings. [Post edited 17 Jan 2016 0:52]
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As the stewards and ticket office staff carry out the same functions for the Hairsprays surely they are stadium staff and not the club's? |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 09:35 - Jan 17 with 6029 views | Uxbridge |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:16 - Jan 17 by Swanseajill |
From a Trust meeting recently.
A Google search will confirm it. It shocked me when I heard it first.
Myra in the Vetch with her S.T. shoe box in the club shop seems worlds away today. |
I think your wrong Lorr ... It's between 500-600. If you're talking incidental in the local area then possibly. |  |
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 13:07 - Jan 17 with 5834 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 23:24 - Jan 16 by Nookiejack |
Last year we had Turnover of £104m - including prize money for 8th place finish.
This year likely to be say 10 places lower - so will be a £10m drop in income.
So could say £94m Turnover expected.
If say 21 players (excluding Barrow, Fulton, Kingsley, Grimes and Tremmel) average £35k a week = £1.8m a year X 21 = £38m.
Say they average £50k a week = £2.6m a year X 21 = £55m.
Maybe then assume rest of the playing squad, academy players and coaches cost £5m (which might be conservative).
Wages of players likely to be between £43m and £60m.
Here's then the interesting thing from the last accounts - social security costs were 13% of wages (see page 15 of accounts) So I assume the club has to pay 12.8% Employees NI on players wages.
That takes an estimate of players wages and social security costs to between £49m and £68m.
You then have to estimate cost of non-playing staff - we had 307 staff (less 1st team squad, U21s, U18s plus respective coaching teams - which I have estimated above). So even if you say had 200 non playing staff at say average £20k per head plus social security costs (Huw Jenkins costs would bump up the average as he earned £0.5m) - then could amount in total to say £5m.
So you then have wages of between £54m and £73m. The last Accounts said our payroll costs were £82.5m (page 15) which was on 14 months basis and probably included some bonuses for our 8th placed finished.
Hence maybe our current wages are about £65m on 12 month basis and assume we will finish in low finishing places so will not pay out good bonuses.
You then have to estimate non payroll costs. Say these are £5m for running stadium, cars, electricity, products for bars, programmes etc. - then total costs before costs associated with player acquisition likely to amount to £70m
Now if we only expect £94m Turnover this year - then only have £24m to spend on players.
Remember we might see a headline transfer fee in press but then assume could be agents fees to pay as well as signing on fees.
Players in this financial year are Eder £5m, Tabanou £3m and Ayew (large signing on fee - plus substantial signing on fee to be paid over contract). Add Agents fees and you won't have much left out of £24m.
Also forgot about costs developing of Landore and Fairwood.
So in conclusion back of fag packet analysis gives a feel of why we don't have much money to spend on players.
If are running costs are £70m and our Turnover £94m - we only have £24m to spend on players each year - including agents fees and signing on bonuses.
£24m doesn't get you very far. |
We would not just buy in players as we have to off load players to make room, so they will partially finance the new players, helping to stretch the £24M. | | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 13:33 - Jan 17 with 5789 views | whiterock |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 09:35 - Jan 17 by Uxbridge |
I think your wrong Lorr ... It's between 500-600. If you're talking incidental in the local area then possibly. |
This
Half of which are players and coaches including Youth | | | |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 13:43 - Jan 17 with 5764 views | Loyal |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 00:16 - Jan 17 by morningstar |
For F***s sake do one you absolute f***IN boring tw*t! That's all you ever go on about is f***in finances! What are you trying to say? Whatever is on your mind spit it out and stop fannying about. Fact is we are in the relegation zone, no manager so to speak, players being sold, players who don't give a sh*t, and that's all you want to talk about is some poxy f***in balance sheet incorporating Jaxx f**kin ltd. F**K off you Twa*. |
So what exactly are you trying to say 😂😂😂👠|  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 14:33 - Jan 17 with 5675 views | Swanseajill |
| Don Keefe Swansea's Financial Position on 09:35 - Jan 17 by Uxbridge |
I think your wrong Lorr ... It's between 500-600. If you're talking incidental in the local area then possibly. |
I'll need to get my ears syringed Andy,
Or Phil needs to talk slower.
 | | | |
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