| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage 13:12 - Oct 15 with 5824 views | epaul |
Charmimg person to have in govt
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/15/lord-freud-minimum-wage_n_5988374.htm
Lord Freud Urged To Resign For Saying Disabled 'Not Worth' Minimum Wage
Tory welfare minister Lord Freud has been urged to resign after he suggested that disabled people are "not worth" being paid the full minimum wage.
In response to a question about the disabled and the national minimum wage at a Tory party conference fringe meeting, the peer was recorded saying: "Now, there is a small…there is a group, and I know exactly who you mean, where actually as you say they’re not worth the full wage and actually I’m going to go and think about that particular issue, whether there is something we can do nationally, and without distorting the whole thing, which actually if someone wants to work for £2 an hour, and it’s working can we actually ... "
Labour leader Ed Miliband confronted David Cameron at Prime Minister's Questions over the Tory peer's "very serious" remarks, asking if he agreed that "disabled people should not be paid the minimum wage".
"Surely if someone holds those views, they can't stay in government?," he said, concluding: "In the dog days of this government the Conservative party is going back to its worst intincts - unfunded tax cuts, hitting the poorest - the nasty part is back."
The Prime Minister shot back, referring to his late disabled son: "I don't need lectures from anyone about looking after disabled people ... instead of casting aspersions why doesn't he get back to talking about the economy?"
He also distanced himself from Lord Freud's comments, saying: "Those are not the views of the government ,those are not the view of anyone in this government."
Speaking on the BBC's Daily Politics, welfare minister Esther McVey distanced herself from Lord Freud's remarks, saying that "those words will haunt him". She made clear that her fellow ministerial colleague would "have to explain himself".
The Prime Minister's spokesman later said: "I'm sure that Lord Freud will explain how he shares the Prime Minister's view."
Shadow leader of the Commons Angela Eagle wrote on Twitter that the Prime Minister should sack Lord Freud "if he had the guts" for his "disgraceful comments" about the disabled.
Shadow communities secretary Hilary Benn said: "Having just been disowned by the Prime Minister, why is Lord Freud still in his job?"
Tory councillor James Scott, whose question to Lord Freud resulted in the controversial answer, reportedly asked: "I have a number of mentally damaged individuals, who to be quite frank aren’t worth the Minimum Wage, but want to work. And we have been trying to support them in work, but you can’t find people who are willing to pay the Minimum Wage.
"We had a young man who was keen to do gardening; now the only way we managed to get him to work was actually setting up a company for him, because as a director in a company we didn’t have to pay the Minimum Wage, we could actually give him the earnings from that. How do you deal with those sort of cases?"
Lord Freud once worked as an adviser to James Purnell as work and pensions secretary in the last Labour government, before going on to join the Tories as a life peer. He previously admitted that he "didn’t know anything about welfare at all".
The Tory peer has caused his own share of controversies as a coalition minister, after attacking people for pursuing a "lifestyle" on benefits,, insisting there was no link between benefit cuts and an increased use of food banks, telling families hit by the bedroom tax can "go out to work or use a sofa bed", and likening benefit claimants to corpses. |  |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:12 - Oct 15 with 2800 views | scottishjack |
I'm not surprised by politicians being completely out of touch, that doesn't have any effect on me anymore, what does bother me is this...
The Prime Minister shot back, referring to his late disabled son: "I don't need lectures from anyone about looking after disabled people ... instead of casting aspersions why doesn't he get back to talking about the economy?"
If Cameron is ever hit with a tricky question on the disabled, he bats the question away by talking about his late son, and nobody has got the bottle to push on with the questions... I'm not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but really? There's a big difference in the circumstances that David Camerons son was looked after compared to what ordinary folk can manage. |  | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:26 - Oct 15 with 2781 views | NOTRAC |
An absolutely pathetic reply from the Prime Minister,but typical unfortunately of the level of debate in Parliament at present. |  |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:31 - Oct 15 with 2768 views | _ |
I think its admirable that disabled people want to get themselves into employment and like any able bodied person they should have the right to be paid what they're worth.
There are some disabled people, however, who choose not to work when they are clearly able to do so.
For example, if a disabled person was able to spend 10 hours plus a day on an internet site, then there would be a multitude of opportunities for that person to enjoy gainful employment, do his bit for the state welfare system and gain a bunch of self worth and respect.
The Tory Minister's words above were ill advised but maybe taken out of context, I simply don't know. |  |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:37 - Oct 15 with 2759 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:26 - Oct 15 by NOTRAC |
An absolutely pathetic reply from the Prime Minister,but typical unfortunately of the level of debate in Parliament at present. |
The only possible response from the Prime Minister should have been along the lines of ... "Such opinions have no place whatsoever in my government and the minister will be instantly removed from his position. I completely agree with the criticism and I have made that known privately and, now, publicly. The minister's view is not shared by me nor by any other member of my government and I apologise on behalf of my party unreservedly for any offence that has been caused."
the minister should then have been unceremoniously dumped into the nearest bin marked 'for the attention of UKIP, please remove'. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:41 - Oct 15 with 2748 views | LeonisGod |
Not defending the Tory muppet's viewpoints, but why did Miliband sit on this for a good couple of weeks waiting for PMQ? More interested in scoring cheap points than tackling the issue head-on maybe? |  | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:43 - Oct 15 with 2744 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:41 - Oct 15 by LeonisGod |
Not defending the Tory muppet's viewpoints, but why did Miliband sit on this for a good couple of weeks waiting for PMQ? More interested in scoring cheap points than tackling the issue head-on maybe? |
agree with this as well.
They're all just a bad as each other. Not an actual opinion between them. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:46 - Oct 15 with 2736 views | LeonisGod |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:43 - Oct 15 by londonlisa2001 |
agree with this as well.
They're all just a bad as each other. Not an actual opinion between them. |
Agreed. And that's probably why there is a protest vote towards UKIP, but unfortunately they are exactly the same if not worse than the others. If we had a good independent that had a track record of work in our community, they'd get my vote. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:50 - Oct 15 with 2731 views | CountyJim |
The Tory party hate the minimum wage anyway full stop they want to go back to days of a grown man working for £2.50 an hour because its good for business ffs
Knock the Labour party all you want but thank God they brought it in now lets campaign for a living wage |  | | |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 15:00 - Oct 15 with 2716 views | epaul |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:50 - Oct 15 by CountyJim |
The Tory party hate the minimum wage anyway full stop they want to go back to days of a grown man working for £2.50 an hour because its good for business ffs
Knock the Labour party all you want but thank God they brought it in now lets campaign for a living wage |
Absolutely it should be £10 an hour now, if it was it would get so many of top up benefits. It is one decent thing the red tories did indeed.
As for Camoron, it goes to show the contempt he has for people of this country.
UkIP = Racist party simple as | |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 15:03 - Oct 15 with 2712 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:50 - Oct 15 by CountyJim |
The Tory party hate the minimum wage anyway full stop they want to go back to days of a grown man working for £2.50 an hour because its good for business ffs
Knock the Labour party all you want but thank God they brought it in now lets campaign for a living wage |
and yet they announced just last week in their conference that they were going to raise the tax threshold to £12,500 so that no one earning minimum wage would pay any income tax.
Which one of them has said that they want 'grown men' earning £2.50 an hour? | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 15:16 - Oct 15 with 2698 views | NeiltheTaylor |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:37 - Oct 15 by londonlisa2001 |
The only possible response from the Prime Minister should have been along the lines of ... "Such opinions have no place whatsoever in my government and the minister will be instantly removed from his position. I completely agree with the criticism and I have made that known privately and, now, publicly. The minister's view is not shared by me nor by any other member of my government and I apologise on behalf of my party unreservedly for any offence that has been caused."
the minister should then have been unceremoniously dumped into the nearest bin marked 'for the attention of UKIP, please remove'. |
Did it occur to you, that maybe the PM and the rest of the Tories agree? | |
| Joe_bradshaw -I thought the cryochamber was the new name for Cardiff's stadium.
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 15:36 - Oct 15 with 2686 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 15:16 - Oct 15 by NeiltheTaylor |
Did it occur to you, that maybe the PM and the rest of the Tories agree? |
no - do you think they do?
Do you honestly think that Cameron is anti disabled people?
I imagine that what the person was getting at, is that people with disabilities who cannot do all parts of a job should not be excluded from working because companies won't pay the same for their work as they would for a person without disability. However, in my view and I have no idea whether the person meant this and is thick so didn't say it, or whether he didn't mean it, the government should then make up the difference through subsidising the company at least in part.
My local supermarket for example, employs a young woman with Down's Syndrome, and I imagine that part of her wage (which I certainly would hope to be no lower than minimum wage) will be subsidised. This is similar to the way in which Remploy worked and is essential.
Actually, the much maligned supermarkets are quite good in this area - I know that Asda employes people who are mentally handicapped to, for example, work on their counters where people have pizzas made up and so on. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 15:49 - Oct 15 with 2668 views | epaul |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 15:03 - Oct 15 by londonlisa2001 |
and yet they announced just last week in their conference that they were going to raise the tax threshold to £12,500 so that no one earning minimum wage would pay any income tax.
Which one of them has said that they want 'grown men' earning £2.50 an hour? |
That raising of the threshold to n12500 will mean virtually nothing to people on that wage yet the cut the other end they are promising will mean at least an extra 2000 fr those with money.
Party of the poor aye, c*nts more like, excuse my french lisa seeing as i'm replying to a lady.
£2.50 an hour come you know they would never had introduced the min wage, look how theyre shafting the worse of and yes as a collective they would prefer people to be on less an hour, they'd rather take us back to the days of sweat shops | |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 16:01 - Oct 15 with 2650 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 15:49 - Oct 15 by epaul |
That raising of the threshold to n12500 will mean virtually nothing to people on that wage yet the cut the other end they are promising will mean at least an extra 2000 fr those with money.
Party of the poor aye, c*nts more like, excuse my french lisa seeing as i'm replying to a lady.
£2.50 an hour come you know they would never had introduced the min wage, look how theyre shafting the worse of and yes as a collective they would prefer people to be on less an hour, they'd rather take us back to the days of sweat shops |
I don't support them Paul !
I also believe that a proper minimum wage should be established - one of the things I most disagree with is that anyone who works should have to be 'topped up' in credits or whatever to earn a decent amount to live on. I find that an absolute scandal.
I don't believe that they would have introduced the minimum wage in the late 90s (I think that's when it came in -it was shortly after Blair wasn't it) but neither do I think they would scrap it now (some of their nutters might, but the front bench wouldn't).
An increase to £12.5k - of course that means something. Raising the thresholds from the £9.5k (ish) where they are to the £12.5k means that you have an extra £3k without tax - that's £600 per year (or to compare with % rises, in order to receive that at the moment in your pocket you'd have to earn £750 p.a. which is the equivalent of a 6% rise on £12,500 p.a. salary).
They've also abolished the threshold for people on over £100k per year. That makes a big difference too since they lose at the moment £2k as a result of that (in their pocket). | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 16:08 - Oct 15 with 2644 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
This appalling far right party have hit on the disabled since they came in power.
Ask all those poor fuc kers chucked onto benefits when they closed all the Remploy work places.
Nothing new here . |  |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 16:12 - Oct 15 with 2638 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 16:08 - Oct 15 by oh_tommy_tommy |
This appalling far right party have hit on the disabled since they came in power.
Ask all those poor fuc kers chucked onto benefits when they closed all the Remploy work places.
Nothing new here . |
completely agree about Remploy - mentioned them earlier. Closing Remploy is a disgrace. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 17:44 - Oct 15 with 2584 views | epaul |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 16:01 - Oct 15 by londonlisa2001 |
I don't support them Paul !
I also believe that a proper minimum wage should be established - one of the things I most disagree with is that anyone who works should have to be 'topped up' in credits or whatever to earn a decent amount to live on. I find that an absolute scandal.
I don't believe that they would have introduced the minimum wage in the late 90s (I think that's when it came in -it was shortly after Blair wasn't it) but neither do I think they would scrap it now (some of their nutters might, but the front bench wouldn't).
An increase to £12.5k - of course that means something. Raising the thresholds from the £9.5k (ish) where they are to the £12.5k means that you have an extra £3k without tax - that's £600 per year (or to compare with % rises, in order to receive that at the moment in your pocket you'd have to earn £750 p.a. which is the equivalent of a 6% rise on £12,500 p.a. salary).
They've also abolished the threshold for people on over £100k per year. That makes a big difference too since they lose at the moment £2k as a result of that (in their pocket). |
I never siad you did!
Of course they wouldn't or more so they couldnt scrap it, evens labours plans to increase it to about £8 quid by the end of the next Parliament is pretty pathetic, by then it'll be worth less than it is now.
Of course raising it too 12.5k will mean something but in reallity to those on that wage it wont mean v much whilst at the other end it will mean a lot more
Anyway where will they find this money to fund these rises considering they can't even give nurses 1%, just a ploy to try to win the next election [Post edited 15 Oct 2014 18:26]
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| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 17:47 - Oct 15 with 2581 views | johnlangy |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:50 - Oct 15 by CountyJim |
The Tory party hate the minimum wage anyway full stop they want to go back to days of a grown man working for £2.50 an hour because its good for business ffs
Knock the Labour party all you want but thank God they brought it in now lets campaign for a living wage |
I've been saying for a long time that the living wage should be made law now just as the minimum wage was.
Why is it that Tesco (just one example, there are a thousand other companies) can pay huge numbers of their employees the minimum wage, those employees then have to apply for benefits to top their pay up to living wage levels then Tesco announce billions in profits which are used to pay shareholders profits.
In other words our taxes are being used to subsidise Tesco profits which are passed on to their shareholders. So the shareholders are actually on benefits. Can you imagine the Daily Mail (  with a front page headline painting those shareholders as benefits cheats ? Which is what they are effectively because they're obviously not eligible for benefits. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 17:55 - Oct 15 with 2566 views | Nogginthenog |
Subsidise firms to top up their pay to the minimum wage pffft. The amount of subsidy we pay to firms is absolutely obscene as it is. Taxpayers pick up the tab for firms who don't pay enough in the form of tax credits. we also subsidise big business with obscene amounts and we also allow them not to pay due taxes. I think the Disabled have been bashed enough, time to focus on big business I think. That's where big savings are to be made. |  | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 17:55 - Oct 15 with 2566 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 17:47 - Oct 15 by johnlangy |
I've been saying for a long time that the living wage should be made law now just as the minimum wage was.
Why is it that Tesco (just one example, there are a thousand other companies) can pay huge numbers of their employees the minimum wage, those employees then have to apply for benefits to top their pay up to living wage levels then Tesco announce billions in profits which are used to pay shareholders profits.
In other words our taxes are being used to subsidise Tesco profits which are passed on to their shareholders. So the shareholders are actually on benefits. Can you imagine the Daily Mail ( with a front page headline painting those shareholders as benefits cheats ? Which is what they are effectively because they're obviously not eligible for benefits. |
Capitalism. Great init?! |  |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 19:22 - Oct 15 with 2498 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 17:55 - Oct 15 by Nogginthenog |
Subsidise firms to top up their pay to the minimum wage pffft. The amount of subsidy we pay to firms is absolutely obscene as it is. Taxpayers pick up the tab for firms who don't pay enough in the form of tax credits. we also subsidise big business with obscene amounts and we also allow them not to pay due taxes. I think the Disabled have been bashed enough, time to focus on big business I think. That's where big savings are to be made. |
If a company is not subsidised to employ a mentally disabled person(which is what this is about) then they won't do it if the disability precludes that person from performing exactly the same tasks to exactly the same standard as a person without that disability. It's obvious. And so a subsidy should be paid. It saves money for the tax payer since Tesco / Asda / whoever pay a proportion of the wages (and at the moment, with a person with that disability being unemployed because of minimum wage legislation, the tax payer is picking up the full amount).
this is exactly the way in which Remploy worked (a brilliant organisation that should not have ben scrapped).
This is the opposite of disabled bashing (I'm not talking about what that idiot said, I'm talking about the way in which it could and should work). It is helping people that otherwise cannot work and feel less of a part of society as a result get work, get paid, less money out for the tax payer, and importantly, the employers get access to a wide range of brilliant people that may not be able to do all of the tasks that a person without a mental disability would be able to do, but bring a wide range of other skills instead.
I agree on the point re tax credits - I made exactly the same point earlier on. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 19:25 - Oct 15 with 2493 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 17:47 - Oct 15 by johnlangy |
I've been saying for a long time that the living wage should be made law now just as the minimum wage was.
Why is it that Tesco (just one example, there are a thousand other companies) can pay huge numbers of their employees the minimum wage, those employees then have to apply for benefits to top their pay up to living wage levels then Tesco announce billions in profits which are used to pay shareholders profits.
In other words our taxes are being used to subsidise Tesco profits which are passed on to their shareholders. So the shareholders are actually on benefits. Can you imagine the Daily Mail ( with a front page headline painting those shareholders as benefits cheats ? Which is what they are effectively because they're obviously not eligible for benefits. |
I agree completely that this whole system of having to top up wages is ridiculous. People should be properly paid.
However - one thing I would change in your post. You spoke of for example Tesco shareholders as 'them' - it's actually 'us'. Most people who have pensions, paying into pensions, have savings of some type, insurance policies of any type and so on, will be shareholders of companies such as tesco. They are owned by the general public at large through financial stuff that almost everyone has. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 19:39 - Oct 15 with 2473 views | Free_Willy |
In 2003 the Labour government supported allowing some companies to pay people with mental health problems £4-a-day to man assembly lines. A government paper from when Patricia Hewitt was Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, which argues that that some so-called “therapeutic work” should not qualify for the minimum wage. It proposed an organisation which “runs a facility for mental health out patients, who do various activities such as packing and assembly“ can “pay varying amounts up to £20 per week“, so long as “if [workers] do not attend there are no sanctions”. The government paper concludes that under such an arrangement “there would probably not be an employer/worker relationship” and therefore “the national minimum wage would not apply“. Ironically the likes of Scope, Mencap and the TUC were consulted during the preparation of the document.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20070603164510/ http://www.dti.gov.uk/files/file11883.pdf |  | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 20:23 - Oct 15 with 2433 views | _ |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:31 - Oct 15 by _ |
I think its admirable that disabled people want to get themselves into employment and like any able bodied person they should have the right to be paid what they're worth.
There are some disabled people, however, who choose not to work when they are clearly able to do so.
For example, if a disabled person was able to spend 10 hours plus a day on an internet site, then there would be a multitude of opportunities for that person to enjoy gainful employment, do his bit for the state welfare system and gain a bunch of self worth and respect.
The Tory Minister's words above were ill advised but maybe taken out of context, I simply don't know. |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 21:02 - Oct 15 with 2392 views | the_oracle |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 15:03 - Oct 15 by londonlisa2001 |
and yet they announced just last week in their conference that they were going to raise the tax threshold to £12,500 so that no one earning minimum wage would pay any income tax.
Which one of them has said that they want 'grown men' earning £2.50 an hour? |
The first thing that will go if we pull out of Europe will be the minimum wage and equal pay. This from the Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9965039/Minimum-wage-could-be-frozen-or-cut-if-i | | | |
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