| Brexit-second referendum 10:23 - Feb 9 with 11430 views | johnlangy |
I'd forgotten all about this until it was brought up again on Facebook. This is a headlining story from the Daily Mirror from 16th May 2016. I'll cut and paste a few lines.
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EXCLUSIVE: Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win
The Ukip leader speaks to the Mirror’s Associate Editor Kevin Maguire and warns that a '52-48 result would be unfinished business'
Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.
The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.
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It's easy to forget these things.
This makes the article in the FT a few days ago about the possibility of a second ref in 2026 a perfectly reasonable one especially when all the polls now show that a large majority of people now believe Brexit was a mistake.
And if that majority which is now around the 58/60% level became say 65% or more over the next few years how can it not be a sensible thing to do. |  | | |  |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:16 - Feb 9 with 1316 views | Gwyn737 |
| Brexit-second referendum on 13:52 - Feb 9 by krunchykarrot |
Most of the promises were deliverable, its just the will to carry them out is the issue. The immigrant crisis is a joke, the NHS is just a money pit with out reforms. I personaly have lost all hope in our elected MP's who seem to carry on saying one thing and doing the opposite. I just watched BBC having a go at Lee Anderson about the death penalty, one of the few who will say what he thinks. |
Lee Anderson is not what the Tory party need right now.
Seems like another own goal to me. | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:20 - Feb 9 with 1308 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:16 - Feb 9 by Gwyn737 |
Lee Anderson is not what the Tory party need right now.
Seems like another own goal to me. |
A bit like the Labour MP sentenced to 4 years in jail today for fraud. He claim expenses to pay for his cocaine habit. | |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 17:25 - Feb 9 with 1298 views | Gwyn737 |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:20 - Feb 9 by felixstowe_jack |
A bit like the Labour MP sentenced to 4 years in jail today for fraud. He claim expenses to pay for his cocaine habit. |
That’s not what I mean.
I mean that he appeals to existing Tory voters. They need to get their numbers up; Anderson won’t do that.
As for the Labour politician, I’m delighted he got his comeuppance as I am when any politician from any party is outed for wrongdoing.
I don’t have any political blindness when it comes to this. | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:57 - Feb 9 with 1271 views | johnlangy |
| Brexit-second referendum on 10:35 - Feb 9 by felixstowe_jack |
I think it is a SMALL majority not a large majority who think Brexit was a mistake. We have hardly had any time to see the effects either positive or negative of Brexit given the Global covoid pandemic, the Global supply crisis and the global energy crisis caused by the Russian invasion of Ukraine
We can't keep having referendums every few years because you don't agree with the democratic decisions of the UK votes.
In 1973 we joined the Common Market.
In 1975 we had a referendum which agreed to stay in the Common Market.
In 2016 we had a referendum which voted to leave the EU
In 2020 we left the EU
The time to have a reason debate about rejoining is after 10 years so we can judge if is was a success to regain put sovereignty. |
I don't disagree with all of that.
The 4% majority to leave is a small majority (exactly as NF says). But a 16% one is quite large imo (58% to 42%). But certainly, if that number got to 65%, as I suggested it might quite soon then that certainly IS a large majority.
Your second para, that's exactly what NF was advocating. He was saying that he'd want a second ref effectively saying I don't accept the democratic decision of UK voters.
As regards the 10 year gap that's what the FT is suggesting. They mention the idea of an initial ref in 2026 to establish the strength of feeling, basically asking the people to give them a mandate to negotiate with the EU about the possibility of rejoining. Then, if they were given that mandate there'd a be a second ref on the terms negotiated to rejoin.
By then it would be 10 years or so from the leaving date. Makes sense to me.
That is the way I see it going. We've only been out effectively 3 years now and already the turnaround is 10%, ie the 52% has gone down to 42% and the 48% up to 58%. When it gets to 65/35 who could argue ? And if you did you'd be outnumbered two to one.
I know it's childish but i've been dying to say this ever since pikey started his monster Brexit thread.
SIUYBL  . Just a bit of fun honest. | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:59 - Feb 9 with 1269 views | majorraglan |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:20 - Feb 9 by felixstowe_jack |
A bit like the Labour MP sentenced to 4 years in jail today for fraud. He claim expenses to pay for his cocaine habit. |
He was suspended from the Labour Party in 2017 for inappropriate comments and resigned from the party in July 2018, a report of fraud was made to the police in July 2019 almost 2 years after Labour initially suspended him.
Looking in from the outside, it seems a Labour took positive action against O’Mara at an early stage, whereas Boris seemingly did very little to uphold standards in the Pincher case and wanted to change the rules to protect Patterson.
FWIW, I’m all in favour of throwing the book at people like O’Mara and the others who abuse their positions of trust and power. A 4 year stretch these days is a decent sentence. | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 18:38 - Feb 9 with 1251 views | britferry |
I will wait to see which side Boris campaigns for then vote for the other | |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 19:07 - Feb 9 with 1240 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:57 - Feb 9 by johnlangy |
I don't disagree with all of that.
The 4% majority to leave is a small majority (exactly as NF says). But a 16% one is quite large imo (58% to 42%). But certainly, if that number got to 65%, as I suggested it might quite soon then that certainly IS a large majority.
Your second para, that's exactly what NF was advocating. He was saying that he'd want a second ref effectively saying I don't accept the democratic decision of UK voters.
As regards the 10 year gap that's what the FT is suggesting. They mention the idea of an initial ref in 2026 to establish the strength of feeling, basically asking the people to give them a mandate to negotiate with the EU about the possibility of rejoining. Then, if they were given that mandate there'd a be a second ref on the terms negotiated to rejoin.
By then it would be 10 years or so from the leaving date. Makes sense to me.
That is the way I see it going. We've only been out effectively 3 years now and already the turnaround is 10%, ie the 52% has gone down to 42% and the 48% up to 58%. When it gets to 65/35 who could argue ? And if you did you'd be outnumbered two to one.
I know it's childish but i've been dying to say this ever since pikey started his monster Brexit thread.
SIUYBL . Just a bit of fun honest. |
This is only going one way John.
Farage’s white male grey haired pensioner support was a big factor.
It has been said that the old stole the future prosperity of the young.
That generation were old in 2016, so many will not see 2026.
Time waits for no man.
In stark contrast the young and the progressive vote will be far bigger.
The EU has recently said it would welcome the uk back.
Its nailed on. 🇪🇺ðŸ‘
And it might even save the UK. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexit-second referendum on 19:26 - Feb 9 with 1229 views | PawelAbbott |
| Brexit-second referendum on 10:35 - Feb 9 by felixstowe_jack |
I think it is a SMALL majority not a large majority who think Brexit was a mistake. We have hardly had any time to see the effects either positive or negative of Brexit given the Global covoid pandemic, the Global supply crisis and the global energy crisis caused by the Russian invasion of Ukraine
We can't keep having referendums every few years because you don't agree with the democratic decisions of the UK votes.
In 1973 we joined the Common Market.
In 1975 we had a referendum which agreed to stay in the Common Market.
In 2016 we had a referendum which voted to leave the EU
In 2020 we left the EU
The time to have a reason debate about rejoining is after 10 years so we can judge if is was a success to regain put sovereignty. |
Is that 10 years from the previous referendum?
That will be in 3 years time. The fact that it has taken 4 years to implement should be part of what is discussed in the referendum. It's doesn't matter which way you voted, it brought almost all other decision making to a standstill for 4 years | | | |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 19:30 - Feb 9 with 1223 views | KeithHaynes |
Great thread from Langy. |  |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 19:37 - Feb 9 with 1218 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Brexit-second referendum on 19:30 - Feb 9 by KeithHaynes |
Great thread from Langy. |
Bookmark this.
I’d be very much surprised if Starmer hasn’t had unofficial talks with other European leaders about rejoining . 18 m to GE, say 18 months in he will start testing the waters about closer arrangements, rejoining.
Far easier for the government that didn’t take us out to rejoin. They’ll argue they are making strides in repairing damage but have to have closer ties to get back on track.
At the moment they need to get in government |  | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 20:31 - Feb 9 with 1214 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Brexit-second referendum on 19:37 - Feb 9 by Sirjohnalot |
Bookmark this.
I’d be very much surprised if Starmer hasn’t had unofficial talks with other European leaders about rejoining . 18 m to GE, say 18 months in he will start testing the waters about closer arrangements, rejoining.
Far easier for the government that didn’t take us out to rejoin. They’ll argue they are making strides in repairing damage but have to have closer ties to get back on track.
At the moment they need to get in government |
I agree John.
I am also looking forward to Johnson, Gove, Farage and Mogg going to jail. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexit-second referendum on 20:33 - Feb 9 with 1213 views | waynekerr55 |
| Brexit-second referendum on 16:53 - Feb 9 by Gwyn737 |
The cost of treating illegal immigrants is a drop in the ocean compared to the costs of an ageing population, broken social care and the lack of mental health support.
We really should concentrate on the big issues. |
Correct. Tax avoidance by the super wealthy would solve a lot of our issues but nobody wants to deal with that elephant in the room |  |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 20:41 - Feb 9 with 1196 views | Gwyn737 |
| Brexit-second referendum on 20:33 - Feb 9 by waynekerr55 |
Correct. Tax avoidance by the super wealthy would solve a lot of our issues but nobody wants to deal with that elephant in the room |
Yes that’s another one to add to the list.
And it wasn’t illegal immigrants who shut the sure start centres, reduced the police force, decimated the justice system, cut mental heath support to the bone etc.
Mind you, if your party did that, blaming illegal immigrants for everything is a very helpful diversion. | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 21:04 - Feb 9 with 1178 views | majorraglan |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:02 - Feb 9 by felixstowe_jack |
The NHS treats over foreign nationals at an estimated cost £1.8 billion a year. If this money was collected we could pay our nurses more . Does not seem like a drop in the ocean to me. |
The £1.8bn figure relates to all foreign nationals including those from EU countries who have reciprocal arrangements for health care under the GHIC/EHIC scheme arrangements. According to 1 respected source of info “health tourism” is approximately £110m - £250m per annum, which is still a sizeable amount but nothing on the scale it’s been portrayed to be. We should aim to recover as much as we can.
One of my family became extremely unwell a few years ago whilst we were on holiday in Europe. They spent 12 days in hospital and received excellent care, tbh I’m not sure they’d have pulled through it it has been here in the U.K. Once they’d seen the EHIC card they were happy and that was it. | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 21:17 - Feb 9 with 1155 views | Gwyn737 |
| Brexit-second referendum on 21:04 - Feb 9 by majorraglan |
The £1.8bn figure relates to all foreign nationals including those from EU countries who have reciprocal arrangements for health care under the GHIC/EHIC scheme arrangements. According to 1 respected source of info “health tourism” is approximately £110m - £250m per annum, which is still a sizeable amount but nothing on the scale it’s been portrayed to be. We should aim to recover as much as we can.
One of my family became extremely unwell a few years ago whilst we were on holiday in Europe. They spent 12 days in hospital and received excellent care, tbh I’m not sure they’d have pulled through it it has been here in the U.K. Once they’d seen the EHIC card they were happy and that was it. |
Say we take that 250m figure.
I’d say that’s a reasonable amount of money to guarantee universal care.
It would probably end up costing more to try and recover it from all illegal immigrants and those returning to countries without reciprocal agreements.
Of course we could go full isolationist and not let anyone in or out of the country. That would do it. | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 21:56 - Feb 9 with 1139 views | Dr_Winston |
| Brexit-second referendum on 20:33 - Feb 9 by waynekerr55 |
Correct. Tax avoidance by the super wealthy would solve a lot of our issues but nobody wants to deal with that elephant in the room |
Super wealthy people can just up and relocate wherever they want.
The trick to taxation is to set the rates at a level where people don't feel the need to. That's the point the usual "soak the rich" crowd always fail to grasp. Punitive taxation has never, ever resulted in an increased tax take. Sensible rates always do. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 22:06 - Feb 9 with 1131 views | majorraglan |
We’re 7 years beyond the referendum and 3 years into Brexit, it’s very early days but thus far I’d say the negatives outweigh the positives. We’ve had both the pandemic and the Ukraine situation to contend with and there’s no doubt these have impacted, however all the other E.U. countries have had the same issues to contend with and they seem to be doing better than we are. We’re the only G7 country whose economy is still smaller than it was pre pandemic.
We were told to expect an economic hit post Brexit and I suspect a lot of people would be prepared to accept a small hit as a price to pay, but the economic hit is bigger than many will admit. My take is that 2026 is a good point to review what’s happened and where we are. I’m not saying it should lead to a further referendum but we certainly need an honest review and I certainly don’t think we should be waiting 50 years like some of the Brexiteers have highlighted to see the economic benefits of Brexit - that’s complete BS.
If truth be told I think the handling of the Brexit negotiations has been poor, we’ve recently seen David Davis come out and blame Whitehall etc for the poor dal when politicians were actually leading the discussions - it’s nothing short of deflection for the mess they’ve made of it. Oven ready deal my @@@@! The trade deals we’ve negotiated have been lauded, but of late we’ve seen serious criticism of Truss’s Oz deal and there is a risk we’re being gaslighted.
Brexit is very emotive and people will argue their position is right until they’re blue in the face. I think by 2026 the tide will turn and support to return will increase especially of our economy doesn’t take off and if the numbers are up to 65% -35% then there needs to be a serious discussion about the future - but it has to be an overwhelming majority because we can’t jet keep changing our minds every 10 years. I voted to leave but 7 years on looking at the mess we’re in, the shambolic way things have been managed I genuinely feel I made the wrong call. My kids weren’t old enough to vote in 2016 but they are now and would defo vote to rejoin as would ALL their friends. | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 22:14 - Feb 9 with 1115 views | Dr_Winston |
Blaming Whitehall is a fair reaction. They're not totally to blame, but they had a big part in it.
The single biggest problem with Brexit so far is that early Leave negotiations were led by Remainers. May, Hammond (but no Clarkson), much of the Government and most of the top level Civil Service wanted to remain so naturally they caved to every demand made of them.
The political mass in the UK is pro-EU. Anyone of an alternative view has to fight through that stodge, and it's not easy. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 22:15 - Feb 9 with 1115 views | majorraglan |
| Brexit-second referendum on 21:17 - Feb 9 by Gwyn737 |
Say we take that 250m figure.
I’d say that’s a reasonable amount of money to guarantee universal care.
It would probably end up costing more to try and recover it from all illegal immigrants and those returning to countries without reciprocal agreements.
Of course we could go full isolationist and not let anyone in or out of the country. That would do it. |
You may well be right about the cost effectiveness of the recovery efforts because we’ve heard similar from the Government in relation to efforts to recover billions (much larger amounts than health tourism) in fraudulent Covid loans which we don’t hear so much about, however I do think we should try on both accounts.
While we’re at it we should also boost the number of tax inspectors and give them a mandate to go after those who failing to pay their taxes. | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 22:15 - Feb 9 with 1110 views | Badgeman |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:25 - Feb 9 by Gwyn737 |
That’s not what I mean.
I mean that he appeals to existing Tory voters. They need to get their numbers up; Anderson won’t do that.
As for the Labour politician, I’m delighted he got his comeuppance as I am when any politician from any party is outed for wrongdoing.
I don’t have any political blindness when it comes to this. |
Felix is being massively disingenuous as is his standard. O’Mara had been long kicked out of the party by the time he was trying to defraud the tax payer. He committed his crimes as an independent and he lost his seat as an independent. |  |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 22:24 - Feb 9 with 1101 views | majorraglan |
| Brexit-second referendum on 22:14 - Feb 9 by Dr_Winston |
Blaming Whitehall is a fair reaction. They're not totally to blame, but they had a big part in it.
The single biggest problem with Brexit so far is that early Leave negotiations were led by Remainers. May, Hammond (but no Clarkson), much of the Government and most of the top level Civil Service wanted to remain so naturally they caved to every demand made of them.
The political mass in the UK is pro-EU. Anyone of an alternative view has to fight through that stodge, and it's not easy. |
May, Hammond etc were leading the discussions for a number of years and yes we were going round and round because the politicians couldn’t agree anything. Boris then came in, the landscape changed and we ended up with an oven ready deal that was anything but. He blatantly lied to the people of NI and the UK about a border in the Irish Sea and we’ve been trying to resolve it ever since. The buck has to stop with the politicians who were in charge.
I genuinely believe Brexit meant different things to different people which is a major issue, Customs Union v No Customs Union etc and post Brexit there was for a long time no consensus in the Conservative Party. Things changed after Boris purged the Conservatives in 2019, but the pendulum may swing back the other way next time round.
Edit - typo. [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 8:08]
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| Brexit-second referendum on 05:52 - Feb 10 with 1068 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Brexit-second referendum on 19:07 - Feb 9 by Kilkennyjack |
This is only going one way John.
Farage’s white male grey haired pensioner support was a big factor.
It has been said that the old stole the future prosperity of the young.
That generation were old in 2016, so many will not see 2026.
Time waits for no man.
In stark contrast the young and the progressive vote will be far bigger.
The EU has recently said it would welcome the uk back.
Its nailed on. 🇪🇺ðŸ‘
And it might even save the UK. |
Yes it’s absolutely disgusting that these people choose to have light skin, be old and possess a penis AND be allowed to have an opinion. It’s shocking. You’ll be telling me they are attracted to women or something next. It’s absolutely disgusting to behave in this manner.
I hope these young progressive voters are not white or male and immune to the ravages of time otherwise they might become old white males too. |  |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 05:53 - Feb 10 with 1067 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Brexit-second referendum on 22:24 - Feb 9 by majorraglan |
May, Hammond etc were leading the discussions for a number of years and yes we were going round and round because the politicians couldn’t agree anything. Boris then came in, the landscape changed and we ended up with an oven ready deal that was anything but. He blatantly lied to the people of NI and the UK about a border in the Irish Sea and we’ve been trying to resolve it ever since. The buck has to stop with the politicians who were in charge.
I genuinely believe Brexit meant different things to different people which is a major issue, Customs Union v No Customs Union etc and post Brexit there was for a long time no consensus in the Conservative Party. Things changed after Boris purged the Conservatives in 2019, but the pendulum may swing back the other way next time round.
Edit - typo. [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 8:08]
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That was the worst episode of Top Gear ever. | |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 06:19 - Feb 10 with 1061 views | Whiterockin |
| Brexit-second referendum on 20:33 - Feb 9 by waynekerr55 |
Correct. Tax avoidance by the super wealthy would solve a lot of our issues but nobody wants to deal with that elephant in the room |
Its not only the super rich who avoid paying tax. How many self employed on here have never done a job for cash or anyone else paid cash for a job to be done. Its a lot harder now but still goes on. Always look at yourself first. |  | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 07:29 - Feb 10 with 1048 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Brexit-second referendum on 22:15 - Feb 9 by Badgeman |
Felix is being massively disingenuous as is his standard. O’Mara had been long kicked out of the party by the time he was trying to defraud the tax payer. He committed his crimes as an independent and he lost his seat as an independent. |
He was a Labour MP end of story who committed serious crimes offences not a minor motoring offence or having a drink like Starmar, Radnor or Johnson. | |
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