| Squad numbers 13:10 - Jul 25 with 7774 views | paulhoop2 |
Anyone know when they get finalised ? |  |
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| Squad numbers on 13:01 - Jul 27 with 2248 views | DejR_vu |
| Squad numbers on 10:20 - Jul 27 by terryb |
That the younger players are training with the first team players? I admit that the new facilities make this easier to implement.
There are three players without squad numbers that Beale has said will be with the first team until the end of August as a minimum. Perhaps being one club is the major difference? |
The younger players were training with the First Team Squad, not because they're deemed good enough, but because MB, new to the club, needed to asses them. MW had been here three years so knew what he needed to know, so didn't need to see them train with the First Team. They both appear to have come to the same conclusion. My point being, MW's reluctance to use these players, apparently caused friction and, yet, the coach brought in to develop the same players, seems to be taking the exact same path as MW. Odd, no? | |
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| Squad numbers on 13:33 - Jul 27 with 2146 views | dmm |
| Squad numbers on 13:01 - Jul 27 by DejR_vu |
The younger players were training with the First Team Squad, not because they're deemed good enough, but because MB, new to the club, needed to asses them. MW had been here three years so knew what he needed to know, so didn't need to see them train with the First Team. They both appear to have come to the same conclusion. My point being, MW's reluctance to use these players, apparently caused friction and, yet, the coach brought in to develop the same players, seems to be taking the exact same path as MW. Odd, no? |
You have a point and it may turn out the current batch of young hopefuls are not good enough for the first team squad.
My understanding of the issues between Warburton and the Board was that Warburton was not working well with Ramsey and the academy coaches to align the youth work and the senior work together.
I didn't want Warburton to go but I also understand the club needs a long term sustainable strategy. The development of young players to then sell on requires everyone at the club works toward that aim. Warburton appears not to have got on board with that and so his contract was not renewed. |  | | |
| Squad numbers on 14:51 - Jul 27 with 2032 views | DejR_vu |
| Squad numbers on 13:33 - Jul 27 by dmm |
You have a point and it may turn out the current batch of young hopefuls are not good enough for the first team squad.
My understanding of the issues between Warburton and the Board was that Warburton was not working well with Ramsey and the academy coaches to align the youth work and the senior work together.
I didn't want Warburton to go but I also understand the club needs a long term sustainable strategy. The development of young players to then sell on requires everyone at the club works toward that aim. Warburton appears not to have got on board with that and so his contract was not renewed. |
Absolutely agree on the long term strategy. However, that surely, must be from post-scholarship players released from other clubs. MW was doing fine on that score.
Perhaps MW wasn’t working well with CR and the academy coaches because they haven’t produced a single player, in over seven years, who has established himself in the first team and been sold (which we’re agreed on, has to be the strategy). The closest we have are Ossie and Nico both of whom player under MW.
No one else in the football world seemed to think our academy players were good enough for The Championship, otherwise they wouldn’t have been on loan at lower league and non-league clubs. MW seemed to have the same opinion and yet it seems to be one of two reasons rumoured to have brought about a parting of the ways, the other being failing to get into the play-offs when we were without our best and key players for a large chunk of the season post-Christmas. And now the coach brought in to develop the very same players seems to be drawing the same conclusions.
After all the dross we’ve had manage the club since NW, we finally stumbled on someone decent (and we did stumble on him as confirmed by LF in his ‘when we got rid of managers before’ interview when he confirmed the club made appointments from people who applied) who was the best manager we’ve had since Warnock and yet we chose not to retain him. The reasons seem to be somewhat flimsy.
This is not about MW or MB, both of whom are impressive in different ways. I’m just very uncomfortable with someone playing Russian Roulette with the future of the club and am surprised everyone is so accepting of it. [Post edited 27 Jul 2022 14:52]
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| Squad numbers on 15:28 - Jul 27 with 1990 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Squad numbers on 14:51 - Jul 27 by DejR_vu |
Absolutely agree on the long term strategy. However, that surely, must be from post-scholarship players released from other clubs. MW was doing fine on that score.
Perhaps MW wasn’t working well with CR and the academy coaches because they haven’t produced a single player, in over seven years, who has established himself in the first team and been sold (which we’re agreed on, has to be the strategy). The closest we have are Ossie and Nico both of whom player under MW.
No one else in the football world seemed to think our academy players were good enough for The Championship, otherwise they wouldn’t have been on loan at lower league and non-league clubs. MW seemed to have the same opinion and yet it seems to be one of two reasons rumoured to have brought about a parting of the ways, the other being failing to get into the play-offs when we were without our best and key players for a large chunk of the season post-Christmas. And now the coach brought in to develop the very same players seems to be drawing the same conclusions.
After all the dross we’ve had manage the club since NW, we finally stumbled on someone decent (and we did stumble on him as confirmed by LF in his ‘when we got rid of managers before’ interview when he confirmed the club made appointments from people who applied) who was the best manager we’ve had since Warnock and yet we chose not to retain him. The reasons seem to be somewhat flimsy.
This is not about MW or MB, both of whom are impressive in different ways. I’m just very uncomfortable with someone playing Russian Roulette with the future of the club and am surprised everyone is so accepting of it. [Post edited 27 Jul 2022 14:52]
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Except that the season before last we had the second highest minutes played by players we developed ourselves in the Championship, so while these players may not be in the FIFA XI they are good enough for our squad.
I get your point, but I would add:
1) Nobody cares how we produce these players (U-18's or U-23's, as long as we do, but we are producing them (and selling them) for the first time in 30 years.
2) They're cheap, and we have absolutely no choice but to use them
3) If we use them, then more young players join us as they see the blessed pathway
4) We went away from that last year even playing with reduced benches, and
5) Finally, we have no idea exactly why Warburton's contract wasn't renewed, save for an article by West London Sport with no quotes in it. But the collapse since Christmas/January can't have helped.
I don't think this is a single-issue debate. Few debates are. |  |
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| Squad numbers on 15:35 - Jul 27 with 1955 views | PinnerPaul |
| Squad numbers on 13:01 - Jul 27 by DejR_vu |
The younger players were training with the First Team Squad, not because they're deemed good enough, but because MB, new to the club, needed to asses them. MW had been here three years so knew what he needed to know, so didn't need to see them train with the First Team. They both appear to have come to the same conclusion. My point being, MW's reluctance to use these players, apparently caused friction and, yet, the coach brought in to develop the same players, seems to be taking the exact same path as MW. Odd, no? |
"apparently caused friction" - depends how much credence/importance you attach to that 'friction'.
I'm with DaveB on this one - finish 6th (or better) and its no issue, whoever is/was the manager.
Another point, to finish 6th or better a number of players with a resale value would need to have stellar seasons and could then be sold, taking the financial pressure off producing our own 1st team players..
Win the play offs of course and once more financial worries go out of the window, and in my cynical view, so does the need for youth development!
As for squad numbers, I think only those of us old enough to remember when there was one sub and he was always number 12 really care that much! | | | |
| Squad numbers on 15:45 - Jul 27 with 1913 views | DejR_vu |
| Squad numbers on 15:28 - Jul 27 by BrianMcCarthy |
Except that the season before last we had the second highest minutes played by players we developed ourselves in the Championship, so while these players may not be in the FIFA XI they are good enough for our squad.
I get your point, but I would add:
1) Nobody cares how we produce these players (U-18's or U-23's, as long as we do, but we are producing them (and selling them) for the first time in 30 years.
2) They're cheap, and we have absolutely no choice but to use them
3) If we use them, then more young players join us as they see the blessed pathway
4) We went away from that last year even playing with reduced benches, and
5) Finally, we have no idea exactly why Warburton's contract wasn't renewed, save for an article by West London Sport with no quotes in it. But the collapse since Christmas/January can't have helped.
I don't think this is a single-issue debate. Few debates are. |
"Except that the season before last we had the second highest minutes played by players we developed ourselves in the Championship, so while these players may not be in the FIFA XI they are good enough for our squad." - Which players were those. Academy or post-scholarship?
"1) Nobody cares how we produce these players (U-18's or U-23's, as long as we do, but we are producing them (and selling them) for the first time in 30 years. "
Evidently, the Club cares very much, because Eze was developed and sold for big money, but he wasn't an Academy player, he was picked up post-scholarship. Chair, post Scholarship. Willock, young Pro. Dickie same. MW was doing a good job, but the club weren't happy that he wasn't giving academy players a chance, but then, as I say, no one else thinks they're good enough either.
"2) They're cheap, and we have absolutely no choice but to use them"
But we're not using them, that's my point.
"3) If we use them, then more young players join us as they see the blessed pathway"
Believe me, we don't have any problem, whatsoever, in getting boys in the building, we just cant develop them.
4) We went away from that last year even playing with reduced benches"
Did we ever run out of substitutes? What is the point of naming players on the bench that were never going to be good enough and were never going to get on the pitch?
"5) Finally, we have no idea exactly why Warburton's contract wasn't renewed, save for an article by West London Sport with no quotes in it. But the collapse since Christmas/January can't have helped."
No side plays at 100% for an entire season. Every side has dips. Ours was before Christmas but then we had AFCON and then injuries to Dieng (plus goodness knows how many other keepers) and Willock as well as all fullbacks, all long-term, so we were hit very, very hard, which must have had an impact. Given that MW had turned things around once before, why wouldn't he have been given a chance to do it again.
Something's not right behind the scenes. The problem wasn't MW. | |
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| Squad numbers on 15:57 - Jul 27 with 1899 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Squad numbers on 15:45 - Jul 27 by DejR_vu |
"Except that the season before last we had the second highest minutes played by players we developed ourselves in the Championship, so while these players may not be in the FIFA XI they are good enough for our squad." - Which players were those. Academy or post-scholarship?
"1) Nobody cares how we produce these players (U-18's or U-23's, as long as we do, but we are producing them (and selling them) for the first time in 30 years. "
Evidently, the Club cares very much, because Eze was developed and sold for big money, but he wasn't an Academy player, he was picked up post-scholarship. Chair, post Scholarship. Willock, young Pro. Dickie same. MW was doing a good job, but the club weren't happy that he wasn't giving academy players a chance, but then, as I say, no one else thinks they're good enough either.
"2) They're cheap, and we have absolutely no choice but to use them"
But we're not using them, that's my point.
"3) If we use them, then more young players join us as they see the blessed pathway"
Believe me, we don't have any problem, whatsoever, in getting boys in the building, we just cant develop them.
4) We went away from that last year even playing with reduced benches"
Did we ever run out of substitutes? What is the point of naming players on the bench that were never going to be good enough and were never going to get on the pitch?
"5) Finally, we have no idea exactly why Warburton's contract wasn't renewed, save for an article by West London Sport with no quotes in it. But the collapse since Christmas/January can't have helped."
No side plays at 100% for an entire season. Every side has dips. Ours was before Christmas but then we had AFCON and then injuries to Dieng (plus goodness knows how many other keepers) and Willock as well as all fullbacks, all long-term, so we were hit very, very hard, which must have had an impact. Given that MW had turned things around once before, why wouldn't he have been given a chance to do it again.
Something's not right behind the scenes. The problem wasn't MW. |
"Except that the season before last we had the second highest minutes played by players we developed ourselves in the Championship, so while these players may not be in the FIFA XI they are good enough for our squad." - Which players were those. Academy or post-scholarship? - combination of both. Either way, they're cheap, and we used them.
"1) Nobody cares how we produce these players (U-18's or U-23's, as long as we do, but we are producing them (and selling them) for the first time in 30 years. "
Evidently, the Club cares very much, because Eze was developed and sold for big money, but he wasn't an Academy player, he was picked up post-scholarship. Chair, post Scholarship. Willock, young Pro. Dickie same. MW was doing a good job, but the club weren't happy that he wasn't giving academy players a chance, but then, as I say, no one else thinks they're good enough either. - I'm not sure it's evident that the club cares which, I have no idea, and I'm not sure anyone else does either. If they play for us for cheap wages, or if we sell them then it's working.
"2) They're cheap, and we have absolutely no choice but to use them"
But we're not using them, that's my point - Agreed, it's also my point. I hope that changes this season. Otherwise we're in real financial trouble.
"3) If we use them, then more young players join us as they see the blessed pathway"
Believe me, we don't have any problem, whatsoever, in getting boys in the building, we just cant develop them - I don't agree, because I have no facts either way on either assertion.
4) We went away from that last year even playing with reduced benches"
Did we ever run out of substitutes? What is the point of naming players on the bench that were never going to be good enough and were never going to get on the pitch? - it's good experience to have lads in and around the squad, I would have thought. Bring them along, get them used to the experience, being in and around big stadia, big crowds, getting used to overnight travel, plus they may be good enough if called upon on the day - look at Murphy Mahony. Not naming a full compliment seems odd to me.
"5) Finally, we have no idea exactly why Warburton's contract wasn't renewed, save for an article by West London Sport with no quotes in it. But the collapse since Christmas/January can't have helped."
No side plays at 100% for an entire season. Every side has dips. Ours was before Christmas but then we had AFCON and then injuries to Dieng (plus goodness knows how many other keepers) and Willock as well as all fullbacks, all long-term, so we were hit very, very hard, which must have had an impact. Given that MW had turned things around once before, why wouldn't he have been given a chance to do it again - all very valid. Just saying it can't have helped.
Something's not right behind the scenes. The problem wasn't MW. - Opinion taken. Again, we have no knowledge of that. | |
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| Squad numbers on 16:08 - Jul 27 with 1862 views | DejR_vu |
| Squad numbers on 15:57 - Jul 27 by BrianMcCarthy |
"Except that the season before last we had the second highest minutes played by players we developed ourselves in the Championship, so while these players may not be in the FIFA XI they are good enough for our squad." - Which players were those. Academy or post-scholarship? - combination of both. Either way, they're cheap, and we used them.
"1) Nobody cares how we produce these players (U-18's or U-23's, as long as we do, but we are producing them (and selling them) for the first time in 30 years. "
Evidently, the Club cares very much, because Eze was developed and sold for big money, but he wasn't an Academy player, he was picked up post-scholarship. Chair, post Scholarship. Willock, young Pro. Dickie same. MW was doing a good job, but the club weren't happy that he wasn't giving academy players a chance, but then, as I say, no one else thinks they're good enough either. - I'm not sure it's evident that the club cares which, I have no idea, and I'm not sure anyone else does either. If they play for us for cheap wages, or if we sell them then it's working.
"2) They're cheap, and we have absolutely no choice but to use them"
But we're not using them, that's my point - Agreed, it's also my point. I hope that changes this season. Otherwise we're in real financial trouble.
"3) If we use them, then more young players join us as they see the blessed pathway"
Believe me, we don't have any problem, whatsoever, in getting boys in the building, we just cant develop them - I don't agree, because I have no facts either way on either assertion.
4) We went away from that last year even playing with reduced benches"
Did we ever run out of substitutes? What is the point of naming players on the bench that were never going to be good enough and were never going to get on the pitch? - it's good experience to have lads in and around the squad, I would have thought. Bring them along, get them used to the experience, being in and around big stadia, big crowds, getting used to overnight travel, plus they may be good enough if called upon on the day - look at Murphy Mahony. Not naming a full compliment seems odd to me.
"5) Finally, we have no idea exactly why Warburton's contract wasn't renewed, save for an article by West London Sport with no quotes in it. But the collapse since Christmas/January can't have helped."
No side plays at 100% for an entire season. Every side has dips. Ours was before Christmas but then we had AFCON and then injuries to Dieng (plus goodness knows how many other keepers) and Willock as well as all fullbacks, all long-term, so we were hit very, very hard, which must have had an impact. Given that MW had turned things around once before, why wouldn't he have been given a chance to do it again - all very valid. Just saying it can't have helped.
Something's not right behind the scenes. The problem wasn't MW. - Opinion taken. Again, we have no knowledge of that. |
Let's agree to differ, Brian. | |
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| Squad numbers on 16:10 - Jul 27 with 1850 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Squad numbers on 16:08 - Jul 27 by DejR_vu |
Let's agree to differ, Brian. |
Absolutely, Deja. Was going to suggest the same.
Completely respect your points.
P.S. I'm going to the counter for a cyber-pint. What's yours? [Post edited 27 Jul 2022 16:11]
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| Squad numbers on 16:32 - Jul 27 with 1774 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Where's me bleedin' squad number?
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| Squad numbers on 17:24 - Jul 27 with 1665 views | bosh67 |
If we have 25 squad places and U23s can be called up anyway it feels a bit pointless giving them a squad number. Have I got this wrong but they can be called up to the first team anyway? |  |
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| Squad numbers on 17:33 - Jul 27 with 1642 views | PinnerPaul |
| Squad numbers on 17:24 - Jul 27 by bosh67 |
If we have 25 squad places and U23s can be called up anyway it feels a bit pointless giving them a squad number. Have I got this wrong but they can be called up to the first team anyway? |
They'll get a ******** number if they are in a matchday squad, so I suspect the extra money they get for that each time it happens is far more important to them than what number is on their back.
Honestly think they couldn't care less! | | | |
| Squad numbers on 17:45 - Jul 27 with 1625 views | dmm |
| Squad numbers on 17:24 - Jul 27 by bosh67 |
If we have 25 squad places and U23s can be called up anyway it feels a bit pointless giving them a squad number. Have I got this wrong but they can be called up to the first team anyway? |
It's actually under 21s that are not counted in the max 25 player limit. | | | |
| Squad numbers on 18:29 - Jul 27 with 1589 views | DejR_vu |
| Squad numbers on 16:10 - Jul 27 by BrianMcCarthy |
Absolutely, Deja. Was going to suggest the same.
Completely respect your points.
P.S. I'm going to the counter for a cyber-pint. What's yours? [Post edited 27 Jul 2022 16:11]
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Partial to a decent Pint of Guinness, Brian. You? | |
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| Squad numbers on 19:08 - Jul 27 with 1533 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Squad numbers on 18:29 - Jul 27 by DejR_vu |
Partial to a decent Pint of Guinness, Brian. You? |
Hot Damn! Now we're talking! | |
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| Squad numbers on 10:00 - Jul 28 with 1320 views | Blue_Castello |
Apologies for potentially stupid question time does the Championship 25 man squad work exactly the same as the Premiership, in that we can't field players outside the squad unless they are from the Academy and under 21.
The point being we all think we need a minimum 2 more players to give us a competitive edge, that is a right back and another striker, the fact we have now named 25 players does that mean we can add more only if a player included in the 25 is loaned out.
MB is quoted a number of times saying we are looking at 2 or 3 more players, how do we get them into the squad....... | | | |
| Squad numbers on 10:24 - Jul 28 with 1224 views | terryb |
| Squad numbers on 10:00 - Jul 28 by Blue_Castello |
Apologies for potentially stupid question time does the Championship 25 man squad work exactly the same as the Premiership, in that we can't field players outside the squad unless they are from the Academy and under 21.
The point being we all think we need a minimum 2 more players to give us a competitive edge, that is a right back and another striker, the fact we have now named 25 players does that mean we can add more only if a player included in the 25 is loaned out.
MB is quoted a number of times saying we are looking at 2 or 3 more players, how do we get them into the squad....... |
These are just the squad numbers we've issued & NOT the 25 man squad submitted to the EFL.
That has to be named immediately after the closing of the transfer window. | | | |
| Squad numbers on 10:31 - Jul 28 with 1193 views | QPR_Hibs |
| Squad numbers on 10:24 - Jul 28 by terryb |
These are just the squad numbers we've issued & NOT the 25 man squad submitted to the EFL.
That has to be named immediately after the closing of the transfer window. |
I suspected the same, Terry, but was having difficulty finding out the exact process. Where I think the club have made it more confusing is by using the phrase LOCKED IN above the graphic. This implies that things can't be changed, which is obviously not correct. |  |
| "Remember to listen to me but look at her. Don't get it the wrong way round. That would be hideous." |
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| Squad numbers on 10:34 - Jul 28 with 1172 views | bosh67 |
| Squad numbers on 17:45 - Jul 27 by dmm |
It's actually under 21s that are not counted in the max 25 player limit. |
Yes and of course Armstrong is 19. | |
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| Squad numbers on 10:38 - Jul 28 with 1164 views | Blue_Castello |
| Squad numbers on 10:24 - Jul 28 by terryb |
These are just the squad numbers we've issued & NOT the 25 man squad submitted to the EFL.
That has to be named immediately after the closing of the transfer window. |
Cheers Terry that's exactly what I was hoping to hear, we have until the window Slams shut to get our right back and striker.......   | | | |
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