| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places 07:49 - May 8 with 27785 views | isitme |
The English Football League will next week tell clubs in Leagues One and Two there is no chance of playing any more games this season and ask them to vote on a method to decide promotion and relegation.
EFL chairman Rick Parry told MPs on the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport select committee on Wednesday morning that a resolution to the season in the third and fourth tiers was only a matter of days away and it now seems a decision could come as early as Monday or Tuesday.
The Athletic understands the EFL board has already received several proposals from clubs, with the current favourite being a points-per-game (PPG) model weighted to reflect how many games the teams have played home and away.
The rationale for this idea is a non-weighted PPG calculation does not take into account the fact that some teams have four home games left, while others have six.
This season across the Football League, the home team has won 46 per cent of the time, with away teams winning only 26 per cent of the games. Over the last six EFL seasons, the average PPG at home is 1.55, compared to 1.19 away.
Under this method, which has been used to decide the tables in English grassroots club rugby union, each club’s PPG would be worked out for their home and away fixtures, then multiplied by 22 for League One, which had 23 clubs this season because of Bury’s demise last summer, and 23 for League Two and then added together to reach a total for the season.
The Athletic understands that a League One club has prepared a detailed explanation of this method, with a full set of final tables, and emailed it to the EFL board.
With the EFL admitting there is no chance of staging its traditional end-of-season play-offs in Leagues One and Two, the top three sides in the League One will be promoted to the Championship, with three going down to League Two, while four come up from League Two and only one goes down, to restore the EFL to its full quota of 72 teams.
The weighted PPG method does not change the top three in League One at all, meaning Coventry City would be crowned champions, with Rotherham United and Oxford United joining them in the Championship next season. The current bottom three – Tranmere Rovers, Southend United and Bolton Wanderers – would still be the bottom three, although Bolton would climb one spot, leaving Southend in last place.
In League Two, Swindon Town would leapfrog Crewe Alexandra into first place, with Plymouth Argyle staying in third but Cheltenham Town climbing over Exeter City to claim the final promotion spot. Stevenage Borough would remain in last place, despite the seven-point deduction Macclesfield Town received on Thursday for failing to fulfill a fixture or pay their players on time.
The Athletic has spoken to two other EFL clubs who said they were aware of this proposal and several others who said they were not, but every club approached said they knew of at least half a dozen different ideas that were circulating around the league. These include using the current tables to settle the finishing positions, a non-weighted PPG model and an idea to only count the first half of the season, which would be the first 22 games in League One and 23 games in League Two.
Some clubs have discussed using more complicated statistical models that factor in how hard each club’s run-in was before the season was suspended in March. There is considerable opposition to these models, though, with one club dismissing them as “hypothetical and unfair”.
The prospect of declaring the season “null and void” appears to have receded, as most clubs acknowledge this would be very unfair on the teams that have got themselves into the promotion place. It would also come with financial and legal risks.
However, any club faced with relegation is almost certainly going to object to being demoted on the basis of PPG, weighted or otherwise. This has led to some clubs suggesting either two or three clubs are promoted this season, with none relegated. Five teams would then be relegated from the divisions above next season, in order to reset them.
But this idea will face strong opposition from the English game’s bosses as it will lead to fixture congestion next season, complicate the distribution of central income and break the terms of the tripartite agreement the EFL, FA and Premier League signed when the top flight broke away from the EFL in 1992.
As things stand, however, both the Premier League and Championship are determined to finish this season’s fixtures in neutral stadiums behind closed doors, which would mean all these issues would be settled on the pitch in the top two divisions. |  | | |  |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:00 - May 8 with 3281 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:56 - May 8 by 442Dale |
That and the fact it isn’t the nicest ground to visit in early March. |
I think he's confusing wheels falling off wheelbarrows with wheels falling off Barrow! |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:00 - May 8 with 3289 views | electricblue |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 09:48 - May 8 by TalkingSutty |
The EFL stumped up £50 million last month to be distributed to Clubs as part of the end of season television and sponsorship money payment, in other words they got that payment early in order to help to alleviate immediate financial pressures. I’m not sure what the PFA are doing but they are sitting on a massive pile of money and have been criticised over the years for stockpiling money instead of using it to help their members. The Premiership Clubs could look after the lower league Clubs and not even blink an eye, donating maybe £1 million to each L1 and L2 Club would be a great gesture and probably stop some Clubs going to the wall. |
So what is stopping the PL from donating the money and clubs going to the wall !
Greed maybe.
Under the terms of the EFL relief fund the monies for League One clubs the figures are £250,000 and £183,000.
The £183,000 is an interest free loan as i understand it.
[Post edited 8 May 2020 14:20]
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:53 - May 8 with 3218 views | ncfc_chalky |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:00 - May 8 by TVOS1907 |
I think he's confusing wheels falling off wheelbarrows with wheels falling off Barrow! |
That made me laugh tbf...  |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:03 - May 8 with 3204 views | ncfc_chalky |
Ive had a look at Barrows results and I will admit that I'm wrong,for some reason I honestly thought that they was on a bit of slide but it doesn't look like it upon research  | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 16:58 - May 8 with 3093 views | blackdogblue |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:03 - May 8 by ncfc_chalky |
Ive had a look at Barrows results and I will admit that I'm wrong,for some reason I honestly thought that they was on a bit of slide but it doesn't look like it upon research |
Feel sorry for NCFC, will only be 5 years or so before they play Bury AFC  |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 20:16 - May 8 with 2966 views | nordenblue |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:54 - May 8 by 442Dale |
Over 37 matches Barrow were on a far better run than Harrogate before games stopped. |
I wish you'd just stop using them bloody facts rather than what "might" have happened, anything that fooks Notts county up in my eyes is definitely a belting idea |  | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 22:32 - May 8 with 2864 views | D_Dale |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:03 - May 8 by ncfc_chalky |
Ive had a look at Barrows results and I will admit that I'm wrong,for some reason I honestly thought that they was on a bit of slide but it doesn't look like it upon research |
Think of it this way, Chalky: better the prospect of Cheaty beating the minnows of the NL next season rather than struggling against some of the bigger L2 clubs.
If these proposals are accepted I should expect Dale's list of released and contract-offered players to follow fairly soon after.
But will the coronavirus be defeated to the extent that all's 'back to normal' after a few
more weeks? | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 19:54 - May 14 with 2463 views | frenzied |
On BBC site states that 6 league one clubs have as a group issued a statement insisting that the fixtures are completed | | | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 20:12 - May 14 with 2431 views | Dalenet |
Interesting comment from Portsmouth that imply that stopping the season would perhaps mean refunds to Season ticket holders whereas completing the fixtures even via TV screen might appease them. | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 20:31 - May 14 with 2407 views | tony_roch975 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 20:12 - May 14 by Dalenet |
Interesting comment from Portsmouth that imply that stopping the season would perhaps mean refunds to Season ticket holders whereas completing the fixtures even via TV screen might appease them. |
yes, just like the Premier League - money is now king, not football. The big 6 don't want to have to repay £100s of millions of TV money so they'll force smaller clubs to play behind closed doors whatever the cost. Wouldn't be surprised to see this lead to a breakaway Euro League by the top 6. [Post edited 14 May 2020 20:35]
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:27 - May 14 with 2327 views | frenzied |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 20:31 - May 14 by tony_roch975 |
yes, just like the Premier League - money is now king, not football. The big 6 don't want to have to repay £100s of millions of TV money so they'll force smaller clubs to play behind closed doors whatever the cost. Wouldn't be surprised to see this lead to a breakaway Euro League by the top 6. [Post edited 14 May 2020 20:35]
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So rather than smaller clubs being accused of "parking the bus"they are simply being thrown under it....? | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 07:10 - May 15 with 2137 views | ColDale |
The most surprising thing in this was Tranmere's absence from the list. Have this group of six not bothered to consult with them or are Tranmere happy to have relegation forced upon them.
It's not surprising really that this has come out. The likes of Fleetwood and Posh have Chairmen who have personally invested seven figure sums this season which may well have been due to pay off had the season continued. That money is arguably wasted now.
There's been much talk as to whether its a majority of clubs or 75% of clubs to force a resolution to this season. This group of six is enough to scupper things if its 75%.
A compromise may well be needed. Do points per game, whether that be 1 per game or the weighted version, and then promote the top two and offer the teams in 3rd to 6th the option of Play Offs to ensure sporting integrity. The Fleetwood chairman suggested last night that he'd be happy with Play offs. Would that be enough to achieve the 75%? I'm sure Sunderland, Ipswich, Peterborough and presumably Tranmere would still object but Posh, Fleetwood and Oxford might just be tempted to take that chance. |  | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 07:56 - May 15 with 2094 views | James1980 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 07:10 - May 15 by ColDale |
The most surprising thing in this was Tranmere's absence from the list. Have this group of six not bothered to consult with them or are Tranmere happy to have relegation forced upon them.
It's not surprising really that this has come out. The likes of Fleetwood and Posh have Chairmen who have personally invested seven figure sums this season which may well have been due to pay off had the season continued. That money is arguably wasted now.
There's been much talk as to whether its a majority of clubs or 75% of clubs to force a resolution to this season. This group of six is enough to scupper things if its 75%.
A compromise may well be needed. Do points per game, whether that be 1 per game or the weighted version, and then promote the top two and offer the teams in 3rd to 6th the option of Play Offs to ensure sporting integrity. The Fleetwood chairman suggested last night that he'd be happy with Play offs. Would that be enough to achieve the 75%? I'm sure Sunderland, Ipswich, Peterborough and presumably Tranmere would still object but Posh, Fleetwood and Oxford might just be tempted to take that chance. |
Could be Tranmere are hoping the points per game includes a weighting for recent form, which would likely see them safe. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:13 - May 15 with 2086 views | aleanddale |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 07:56 - May 15 by James1980 |
Could be Tranmere are hoping the points per game includes a weighting for recent form, which would likely see them safe. |
Impossible to factor in.
Thank goodness we beat Rotherham 3-1 although if the season had of carried on I was confident we would have survived comfortably. | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:39 - May 15 with 2061 views | James1980 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:13 - May 15 by aleanddale |
Impossible to factor in.
Thank goodness we beat Rotherham 3-1 although if the season had of carried on I was confident we would have survived comfortably. |
Yes I believe we would have survived with games to spare.
Is there no way recent form could be factored in to a predicted final points tally? [Post edited 15 May 2020 8:45]
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:53 - May 15 with 2039 views | pioneer |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:39 - May 15 by James1980 |
Yes I believe we would have survived with games to spare.
Is there no way recent form could be factored in to a predicted final points tally? [Post edited 15 May 2020 8:45]
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particularly since that form is no longer recent. | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 09:08 - May 15 with 2014 views | judd |
It's interesting where fans/supporters rank in a couple of those comments.
I suppose they could be magnanimous soundbites and equally offset by other clubs putting fans first vis a vis social distancing.
I wonder have supporter groups been consulted by clubs throughout the leagues as to their thoughts and feelings on the ending of this season? |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 09:14 - May 15 with 2011 views | James1980 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:53 - May 15 by pioneer |
particularly since that form is no longer recent. |
OK form from last 5 to 10 games played then. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 10:53 - May 15 with 1917 views | Mass_Debater |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 09:14 - May 15 by James1980 |
OK form from last 5 to 10 games played then. |
Why? How about the last 3 games? Or the last 15. The season started in August not January. | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:13 - May 15 with 1892 views | James1980 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 10:53 - May 15 by Mass_Debater |
Why? How about the last 3 games? Or the last 15. The season started in August not January. |
Because that would take into consideration players signed in January transfer window taking effect/affect on results.
Considering the number of points to play for finish the games or null and void are the only two options imho. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:18 - May 15 with 1885 views | Mass_Debater |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:13 - May 15 by James1980 |
Because that would take into consideration players signed in January transfer window taking effect/affect on results.
Considering the number of points to play for finish the games or null and void are the only two options imho. |
Season started in August, not January | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:39 - May 15 with 1854 views | James1980 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:18 - May 15 by Mass_Debater |
Season started in August, not January |
Surely the January window is to strengthen a squad to make a push for a higher placed finish whether it be closer to survival or promotion. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:45 - May 15 with 1836 views | judd |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:39 - May 15 by James1980 |
Surely the January window is to strengthen a squad to make a push for a higher placed finish whether it be closer to survival or promotion. |
But that might favour richer clubs or those prepared to break the bank for promotion/survival in the league, which goes against FFP.
The competition started in August, and whereby my preference would be to see it concluded in full irrespective of an end date (within reason, such as calendar year 2020), if PPG is to be applied then it should be from the start of the season. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:53 - May 15 with 1825 views | Mass_Debater |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:39 - May 15 by James1980 |
Surely the January window is to strengthen a squad to make a push for a higher placed finish whether it be closer to survival or promotion. |
Right, so clubs who can afford to strengthen should potentially benefit?
And who decides what "recent form" is?
This is the worst and most stupid idea anyone has come up with yet. | | | |
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