| Drop Jones 08:52 - Jan 8 with 2536 views | BartRowou |
Play Kennedy defensively and Tutte further forward. Either pretend Jones is injured and let him help out on the bench or admit he's been poor this season and have him as sub for the last half hour to shore it up or bomb on when others get tired. He's been the constant in a miserable, spineless season. We have to try it at least before we get cut adrift. |  |
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| Drop Jones on 09:16 - Jan 8 with 1956 views | 442Dale |
Tutte and JK are good enough players to share the responsibilities in the middle if the park, both can be box to box in different ways. It worked with JK and Taylor when Jaybo ended up getting forward as much as Kennedy did. |  |
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| Drop Jones on 10:30 - Jan 8 with 1895 views | MiddGazzard |
i don`t think that dropping Jones is the answer.
JK and Jonah know each other games, and are both good at "breaking up play" in a 2 Man midfield. Jonah gets forward (possibly too much at times), whilst JK sits and mops up. Did OK against PNE in both games.
Eyre tried Jonah and Tutte in midfield, but Tutte tends to shield rather than tackle and for a playmaker has a tendency to play too many square passes.
In some Away games, Dale could consider playing Tutte in midfield as well, and playing 4-3-3 to give some protection for the Home team coming forward.
ie : Play BOG, Ormerod, and Adams up top. Just an alternative suggestion.
Use JLAA as an "impact" substitution, as his form is very inconsistent.
Our AWAY form is 2nd worst in the Division with 2 wins and 2 Draws from 12 Games, and a mere 8 points. We need changes to bring about an improvement.
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| Drop Jones on 12:02 - Jan 8 with 1817 views | TomRAFC |
unfortunately i agree
i was dead set against dropping jones at the start of the season but when tutte and jones were playing together tutte looked handy and now jk and jones are together jk looks like our most consistent player
that combination of solidity from jk and energy from tutte could give us an edge | |
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| Drop Jones on 12:10 - Jan 8 with 1791 views | TalkingSutty |
| Drop Jones on 12:02 - Jan 8 by TomRAFC |
unfortunately i agree
i was dead set against dropping jones at the start of the season but when tutte and jones were playing together tutte looked handy and now jk and jones are together jk looks like our most consistent player
that combination of solidity from jk and energy from tutte could give us an edge |
Why all of a sudden is Tutte the answer to our problems ? From what i have seen he isnt good enough. Last month BBM was touted as the saviour when the previous season all and sundry witnessed he wasnt up to scratch.
Tutte couldnt cut the mustard at Yeovil and his attitude coupled with his displays this season have been very poor.
If dropping Jonah is the answer, something which i think is ridiculous, then at least replace him with a better player. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Drop Jones on 13:00 - Jan 8 with 1736 views | 442Dale |
| Drop Jones on 12:10 - Jan 8 by TalkingSutty |
Why all of a sudden is Tutte the answer to our problems ? From what i have seen he isnt good enough. Last month BBM was touted as the saviour when the previous season all and sundry witnessed he wasnt up to scratch.
Tutte couldnt cut the mustard at Yeovil and his attitude coupled with his displays this season have been very poor.
If dropping Jonah is the answer, something which i think is ridiculous, then at least replace him with a better player. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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But we don't know if Tutte and Kennedy will be better for the team until we try it. Discussing who is the better player makes no difference. Ball is a better player than JLAA, but we'd have been better with the latter in the side yesterday.
Tutte is a good footballer, whether he's what we need right now is impossible to determine until he plays with JK, playing him with Jones didn't work as they are too similar.
Ps. When last month was BBM the saviour? He was playing left back!
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| Drop Jones on 14:09 - Jan 8 with 1686 views | TalkingSutty |
| Drop Jones on 13:00 - Jan 8 by 442Dale |
But we don't know if Tutte and Kennedy will be better for the team until we try it. Discussing who is the better player makes no difference. Ball is a better player than JLAA, but we'd have been better with the latter in the side yesterday.
Tutte is a good footballer, whether he's what we need right now is impossible to determine until he plays with JK, playing him with Jones didn't work as they are too similar.
Ps. When last month was BBM the saviour? He was playing left back!
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Some folk suggested that BBM could be the answer to our defensive problems by playing in front of the defence. The answer to me was simple, we needed better defenders.
Hilcroft deemed Tutte not up to the job and i respect their views on players who they have worked with, that coupled with what i have witnessed from Tutte this season have made my mind up on the Jones/Tutte debate. Tutte isnt fit to lace Jonahs boots imo, too much of a show pony. | | | |
| Drop Jones on 14:11 - Jan 8 with 1677 views | SalwaDale |
| Drop Jones on 14:09 - Jan 8 by TalkingSutty |
Some folk suggested that BBM could be the answer to our defensive problems by playing in front of the defence. The answer to me was simple, we needed better defenders.
Hilcroft deemed Tutte not up to the job and i respect their views on players who they have worked with, that coupled with what i have witnessed from Tutte this season have made my mind up on the Jones/Tutte debate. Tutte isnt fit to lace Jonahs boots imo, too much of a show pony. |
Agree |  |
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| Drop Jones on 14:23 - Jan 8 with 1660 views | 442Dale |
| Drop Jones on 14:11 - Jan 8 by SalwaDale |
Agree |
He might not be, but Jones has been ever present, why not actually find out what Tutte can offer alongside someone different before completely writing him off? Otherwise we might as well be offering him the chance to go out on loan/transfer him. And yes it's all about attitude, and that answers why Hill sent him back. Let's not doubt his ability as a player before actually seeing how he does. We'd have got rid of Jones in 98 if that was the case!
Does Kennedy's form merit a place in the side? Yes.
Does Jones' form merit a place in the side at the moment? He's played every minute of every game and we're second bottom and look one paced. If nothing else he deserves a rest.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Drop Jones on 14:34 - Jan 8 with 1631 views | SalwaDale |
| Drop Jones on 14:23 - Jan 8 by 442Dale |
He might not be, but Jones has been ever present, why not actually find out what Tutte can offer alongside someone different before completely writing him off? Otherwise we might as well be offering him the chance to go out on loan/transfer him. And yes it's all about attitude, and that answers why Hill sent him back. Let's not doubt his ability as a player before actually seeing how he does. We'd have got rid of Jones in 98 if that was the case!
Does Kennedy's form merit a place in the side? Yes.
Does Jones' form merit a place in the side at the moment? He's played every minute of every game and we're second bottom and look one paced. If nothing else he deserves a rest.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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I think the every minute thing is important. There have been a number of games where I would have liked to Tutte to replace Jones with 20 minutes or so to go. I would approve of that. I think Tutte's attitude and demeanour earlier in the season were worse than Grimes. To suggest starting Tutte ahead of Jones seems ridiculous to me. Jones earns his place in the team week after week, someone else has to earn the right to start ahead of him. | |
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| Drop Jones on 14:39 - Jan 8 with 1623 views | 442Dale |
| Drop Jones on 14:34 - Jan 8 by SalwaDale |
I think the every minute thing is important. There have been a number of games where I would have liked to Tutte to replace Jones with 20 minutes or so to go. I would approve of that. I think Tutte's attitude and demeanour earlier in the season were worse than Grimes. To suggest starting Tutte ahead of Jones seems ridiculous to me. Jones earns his place in the team week after week, someone else has to earn the right to start ahead of him. |
But on form alone, Jones hasn't earnt his place every week. Trying to keep this away from 'drop Jones' and more 'get some more pace into the middle of the park'.
How can anyone earn the chance without getting a chance? It's far from ridiculous to suggest a change based purely on results. | |
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| Drop Jones on 15:48 - Jan 8 with 1571 views | BeckWMG |
| Drop Jones on 14:39 - Jan 8 by 442Dale |
But on form alone, Jones hasn't earnt his place every week. Trying to keep this away from 'drop Jones' and more 'get some more pace into the middle of the park'.
How can anyone earn the chance without getting a chance? It's far from ridiculous to suggest a change based purely on results. |
Drop Jones? Not sure.
I certainly think Tutte should be in the starting 11.
I don't see why our defensive failings are being mentioned in this thread about a midfielder.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that if you play an ageing LB in Jordan and a CB that can't get into a side that sits bottom of the league, your going to have defensive problems.
Simples. | | | |
| Drop Jones on 16:23 - Jan 8 with 1531 views | nordenblue |
| Drop Jones on 15:48 - Jan 8 by BeckWMG |
Drop Jones? Not sure.
I certainly think Tutte should be in the starting 11.
I don't see why our defensive failings are being mentioned in this thread about a midfielder.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that if you play an ageing LB in Jordan and a CB that can't get into a side that sits bottom of the league, your going to have defensive problems.
Simples. |
A centre back in Holden who we've only played out of position at right back until recently and Jordan who's a centre half playing at left back untill recently? That's called bad management and playing players out of their choice position? Same applies to Tuttes previous spell here where Mr Hill threw him out on the wing most his spell before deeming him not up to it, the massive thing Tutte does offer is bags of energy and lots of running something we are so blatently short of through the middle all season, too static and easy to cancel out during games! I'd definately give Tutte and our performing midfielder at the moment JK a run of games | | | |
| Drop Jones on 16:34 - Jan 8 with 1501 views | wmgunit |
Tutte looked more incisive than Jones when he came on against PNE. Opened up the defence more. Don't think anyone emerged from Hartlepool with much credit. He probably deserves a full 90 minutes. |  | | |
| Drop Jones on 16:37 - Jan 8 with 1494 views | SaxonDale |
We've scored 1 goal in 5 games an it'd be somewhat naive to think that's a sole result of the strikers. Tutte has can drive the team on to an effect similar to Jones could in his prime, he also has the ability to pick out a pass that Jones wouldn't see. Definately needs to start the next game alongside Kennedy. |  | | |
| Drop Jones on 16:53 - Jan 8 with 1465 views | sandylaner1 |
| Drop Jones on 16:37 - Jan 8 by SaxonDale |
We've scored 1 goal in 5 games an it'd be somewhat naive to think that's a sole result of the strikers. Tutte has can drive the team on to an effect similar to Jones could in his prime, he also has the ability to pick out a pass that Jones wouldn't see. Definately needs to start the next game alongside Kennedy. |
this.
kennedy has been superb this season and has done his job effectively, so tutte deserves a chance or a run of games |  | | |
| Drop Jones on 16:53 - Jan 8 with 1462 views | isitme |
| Drop Jones on 15:48 - Jan 8 by BeckWMG |
Drop Jones? Not sure.
I certainly think Tutte should be in the starting 11.
I don't see why our defensive failings are being mentioned in this thread about a midfielder.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that if you play an ageing LB in Jordan and a CB that can't get into a side that sits bottom of the league, your going to have defensive problems.
Simples. |
I think Jordan has consistently been with Kennedy game in and game out our best player. We have conceded fewer goals since he came into the team. |  | | |
| Drop Jones on 17:14 - Jan 8 with 1435 views | Brierls |
| Drop Jones on 14:09 - Jan 8 by TalkingSutty |
Some folk suggested that BBM could be the answer to our defensive problems by playing in front of the defence. The answer to me was simple, we needed better defenders.
Hilcroft deemed Tutte not up to the job and i respect their views on players who they have worked with, that coupled with what i have witnessed from Tutte this season have made my mind up on the Jones/Tutte debate. Tutte isnt fit to lace Jonahs boots imo, too much of a show pony. |
As opposed to Jones being a no-show pony for many of the games this season. If the bloke alongside JK didn't have 'Jones 8' on his shirt he'd have been replaced long before now.
It's not even a Jones/Tutte debate, it's about getting the best Dale TEAM on the field. We're seeing our midfield over-run practically every week, and something needs to change. The options available to us has understandably led to an ever increasing number of fans wanting to see Tutte given a chance alongside JK. |  | | |
| Drop Jones on 17:26 - Jan 8 with 1417 views | 442Dale |
And therein lies the problem, it's been surprising that anyone is unable to look further than a name on a shirt when it comes to assessing what might be the best option for the team at the present time.
Marcus Holness was voted player of the year by his team mates last season, yet there has been both justifiable criticism of him and time on the bench. That's not anything to do with Holness, we know how much he is capable of, but there are times when other players deserve a chance. | |
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| Drop Jones on 17:31 - Jan 8 with 1404 views | Dale23years |
| Drop Jones on 17:26 - Jan 8 by 442Dale |
And therein lies the problem, it's been surprising that anyone is unable to look further than a name on a shirt when it comes to assessing what might be the best option for the team at the present time.
Marcus Holness was voted player of the year by his team mates last season, yet there has been both justifiable criticism of him and time on the bench. That's not anything to do with Holness, we know how much he is capable of, but there are times when other players deserve a chance. |
Jones should be dropped been crap all season. Me think he got a thing in contract saying he cant be dropped in the league . | |
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| Drop Jones on 19:04 - Jan 8 with 1356 views | Shun |
| Drop Jones on 14:23 - Jan 8 by 442Dale |
He might not be, but Jones has been ever present, why not actually find out what Tutte can offer alongside someone different before completely writing him off? Otherwise we might as well be offering him the chance to go out on loan/transfer him. And yes it's all about attitude, and that answers why Hill sent him back. Let's not doubt his ability as a player before actually seeing how he does. We'd have got rid of Jones in 98 if that was the case!
Does Kennedy's form merit a place in the side? Yes.
Does Jones' form merit a place in the side at the moment? He's played every minute of every game and we're second bottom and look one paced. If nothing else he deserves a rest.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Good post.
From what I've seen Jones is better than Tutte, but if nothing else, Tutte at least provides something different.
I don't think people should be as concerned with our 'defensive frailties' right now. We've been quite good defensively of late. Yesterday the back 5 were the only ones to emerge with even the slightest bit of credit. It's the fact that I've only seen one single goal since the Wycombe win that worries me. |  | | |
| Drop Jones on 19:16 - Jan 8 with 1331 views | olympicdale |
regarding Jones, its not just his footballing ability thats the reason he is in week in week out, he is Dales talisman, he is the only player who will roll up his sleeves and get stuck in. There is there is no room for sentiment in football, but he is there on merit, he loves this club and will put his body on the line for the Dale, and with these in mind he deserves his place. |  |
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| Drop Jones on 19:24 - Jan 8 with 1317 views | 442Dale |
| Drop Jones on 19:16 - Jan 8 by olympicdale |
regarding Jones, its not just his footballing ability thats the reason he is in week in week out, he is Dales talisman, he is the only player who will roll up his sleeves and get stuck in. There is there is no room for sentiment in football, but he is there on merit, he loves this club and will put his body on the line for the Dale, and with these in mind he deserves his place. |
The only player? Really?
Rory McArdle never gave anything less than 100% and constantly put his body on the line. It didn't ensure him a place in the side.
If there was no room for sentiment, no Dale fan would have an issue with seeing if something different might work. | |
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| Drop Jones on 19:30 - Jan 8 with 1313 views | olympicdale |
| Drop Jones on 19:24 - Jan 8 by 442Dale |
The only player? Really?
Rory McArdle never gave anything less than 100% and constantly put his body on the line. It didn't ensure him a place in the side.
If there was no room for sentiment, no Dale fan would have an issue with seeing if something different might work. |
was thinking of the current lot, no doubt we've had some fully commited players recently, but Jones i feel is possibly the only one we have now who will give his all for the club. | |
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| Drop Jones on 19:33 - Jan 8 with 1309 views | 442Dale |
| Drop Jones on 19:30 - Jan 8 by olympicdale |
was thinking of the current lot, no doubt we've had some fully commited players recently, but Jones i feel is possibly the only one we have now who will give his all for the club. |
JK? Holden? JLAA?
That's three, who whatever their limitations may be, can never be accused of giving anything less than their all. In fact, which players don't? | |
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| Drop Jones on 19:41 - Jan 8 with 1295 views | Frog |
WOW this management lark is easy.................. |  | | |
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