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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 10:15 - Jun 17 by MrSheen
Thanks gents for reviving memories of England's group games in 1990. That Ireland game was one of the worst I've ever seen, played in a gale so of course both sides are going to punt it in the air whenever possible. As comfortable an experience as wearing a nylon shirt and polyester trousers on a stalled tube train in August.
I wasn't disappointed by last night as it was utterly predictable.
When you don't have a LB the logical thing to do is play a back 3 (Guehi-Stones-Walker). Instead we shoehorn a RB into LB with predictable results.
If you want to play TAA you have to play him wide right imo where his long passing, switching of play and crossing can be utilised and his weaknesses won't be exposed as much. In CM, his ball control isn't good enough and his body shape & positioning is weak, often the ball will go straight back to where it came from because he hasn't opened his body up to see what's around him or progress the ball.
Foden is at his best playing as a 10, not stuck out wide. When we played France, he terrified them every time he drifted into the middle, but Southgate kept insisting he stick wide. If we're going to play him, play to his strengths and get him in the middle. For me, Bellingham is better playing from deep as he can use his physique to break the lines, if you play Bellingham as a 10 you lose that. A CM of Rice-Bellingham would have everything and allow Foden to play as a 10.
The solution in my opinion is a 3-4-3 with Foden and Saka playing behind Kane. Saka often goes inside & Foden playing centrally would create space for TAA and Gordon to push forward. No square pegs in round holes.
Pickford Walker-Stones-Guehi TAA-Bellingham-Rice-Gordon Saka-Foden Kane
On the positive side of things, Guehi and Rice were excellent, as were others in periods. Gallagher & Bowen did well when they came on too.
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 10:31 - Jun 17 by MedwayR
I wasn't disappointed by last night as it was utterly predictable.
When you don't have a LB the logical thing to do is play a back 3 (Guehi-Stones-Walker). Instead we shoehorn a RB into LB with predictable results.
If you want to play TAA you have to play him wide right imo where his long passing, switching of play and crossing can be utilised and his weaknesses won't be exposed as much. In CM, his ball control isn't good enough and his body shape & positioning is weak, often the ball will go straight back to where it came from because he hasn't opened his body up to see what's around him or progress the ball.
Foden is at his best playing as a 10, not stuck out wide. When we played France, he terrified them every time he drifted into the middle, but Southgate kept insisting he stick wide. If we're going to play him, play to his strengths and get him in the middle. For me, Bellingham is better playing from deep as he can use his physique to break the lines, if you play Bellingham as a 10 you lose that. A CM of Rice-Bellingham would have everything and allow Foden to play as a 10.
The solution in my opinion is a 3-4-3 with Foden and Saka playing behind Kane. Saka often goes inside & Foden playing centrally would create space for TAA and Gordon to push forward. No square pegs in round holes.
Pickford Walker-Stones-Guehi TAA-Bellingham-Rice-Gordon Saka-Foden Kane
On the positive side of things, Guehi and Rice were excellent, as were others in periods. Gallagher & Bowen did well when they came on too.
Rice really was good, especially second half when the defence needed protection.
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 10:40 - Jun 17 with 1873 views
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 10:05 - Jun 17 by lassel
I normally agree with you Dave and you’re often the voice of reason but I can’t agree that last nights game was a tricky one.
As said I was at Sweden v Serbia last week and they were as dire yesterday as they were against Sweden. They’re a very poor team whose only strategy is to be disciplined and compact and try and nick something on the break or at a set piece.
England should’ve won at a canter yet for 60 minutes Serbia were in uncharted territory expecting to sit back and suddenly being urged to come forward and have a go.
The possession stats were stark with how narrow England were, the one time Saka took on his full back it resulted in a goal.
Another problem of course is Southgate insisting that the unanimous PL player of the season in the #10 role cannot play the #10 role and then shoehorning him in at LW where he never plays for his club with predictable results.
I don’t want to gang up on Southgate and play into the cliches about him but last night was perfect fodder for his detractors with a team of offensively minded players looking completely devoid of ideas and tactical nous.
And as said, TAA is *NOT* a midfielder, Serbia correctly targeted him and they’re not a good team, if England want any chance of getting to the later stages he has to be removed from that role.
Opening games are always tricky and England haven't been in good form since the qualifiers so I didn't really understand the idea we'd win that easily. I didn't think England were ever in much trouble during the game, Serbia pressed really well second half but defensivley we looked alright. Guehi in particular was impressive
Foden is a problem for us, he starts plenty of games for City on the left and drifts inside, did the same last night. Southgate isn't stopping him doing anything, Fabregas was very good on him last night, he needs to do what Bellingham does and grab the ball and make things happen, he seems to drift out of games for England.
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 11:09 - Jun 17 with 1762 views
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 10:31 - Jun 17 by MedwayR
I wasn't disappointed by last night as it was utterly predictable.
When you don't have a LB the logical thing to do is play a back 3 (Guehi-Stones-Walker). Instead we shoehorn a RB into LB with predictable results.
If you want to play TAA you have to play him wide right imo where his long passing, switching of play and crossing can be utilised and his weaknesses won't be exposed as much. In CM, his ball control isn't good enough and his body shape & positioning is weak, often the ball will go straight back to where it came from because he hasn't opened his body up to see what's around him or progress the ball.
Foden is at his best playing as a 10, not stuck out wide. When we played France, he terrified them every time he drifted into the middle, but Southgate kept insisting he stick wide. If we're going to play him, play to his strengths and get him in the middle. For me, Bellingham is better playing from deep as he can use his physique to break the lines, if you play Bellingham as a 10 you lose that. A CM of Rice-Bellingham would have everything and allow Foden to play as a 10.
The solution in my opinion is a 3-4-3 with Foden and Saka playing behind Kane. Saka often goes inside & Foden playing centrally would create space for TAA and Gordon to push forward. No square pegs in round holes.
Pickford Walker-Stones-Guehi TAA-Bellingham-Rice-Gordon Saka-Foden Kane
On the positive side of things, Guehi and Rice were excellent, as were others in periods. Gallagher & Bowen did well when they came on too.
I don't think Foden stayed on the left all night, he was in the middle for most of the game which didn't help the team as we had no threat down that side of the pitch
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 11:18 - Jun 17 with 1712 views
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 11:09 - Jun 17 by daveB
I don't think Foden stayed on the left all night, he was in the middle for most of the game which didn't help the team as we had no threat down that side of the pitch
True but when he did drift inside it meant there was no one wide left because Trippier isn't a LB and wasn't pushing up, when Trippier did push up he immediately turned back onto his right and went backwards or inside again.
Second half, Foden stayed wider which resulted in him not getting involved as much. Get Foden in the middle with an option to his left and I'm sure he'd have an impact. It was all very unbalanced last night & Foden suffered the most because of it, and is therefore getting the most stick too.
We have a lot of very talented players of that there is no question but the eleven best players don't always make the best team. To me, Southgate like Eriksson and Capello before him, is falling into the old trap of shoehorning players into the team out of position rather than playing a maybe slightly lesser talented player in his correct position.
I've never got Foden for England. Personally he hasn't done it in an England shirt, he isn't the same player that plays for his club but is no doubting he is more effective centrally. For me, he isn't in Bellingham's class so he doesn't play, he is his understudy. I would play Gordon on the left of the three behind Kane. Most teams wouldn't fancy Saka's pace on the right and Gordon's on the left.
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 11:07 - Jun 17 by daveB
Opening games are always tricky and England haven't been in good form since the qualifiers so I didn't really understand the idea we'd win that easily. I didn't think England were ever in much trouble during the game, Serbia pressed really well second half but defensivley we looked alright. Guehi in particular was impressive
Foden is a problem for us, he starts plenty of games for City on the left and drifts inside, did the same last night. Southgate isn't stopping him doing anything, Fabregas was very good on him last night, he needs to do what Bellingham does and grab the ball and make things happen, he seems to drift out of games for England.
Again I have to disagree on Foden - he officially started 8 of 52 games for City on the left, 24 RW and 20 Central with those games being mostly FA & CL earlier rounds.
As others have said while I know we are told to turn our nose up at wingers these days, with Kane up top and Bellingham liking to arrive late in the box we should be starting with 2x proper wingers and if Bellingham isn’t deployed a bit deeper then Foden on the bench. It was pretty telling that’s Englands 2x best chances were Saka taking on his man (goal) and Bowen taking on his man (great save).
The longterm fear is that Foden & Bellingham will end up being Gerrard & Lampard 2.0 if the manager is not willing to drop Bellingham deeper.
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 12:01 - Jun 17 with 1588 views
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 11:58 - Jun 17 by lassel
Again I have to disagree on Foden - he officially started 8 of 52 games for City on the left, 24 RW and 20 Central with those games being mostly FA & CL earlier rounds.
As others have said while I know we are told to turn our nose up at wingers these days, with Kane up top and Bellingham liking to arrive late in the box we should be starting with 2x proper wingers and if Bellingham isn’t deployed a bit deeper then Foden on the bench. It was pretty telling that’s Englands 2x best chances were Saka taking on his man (goal) and Bowen taking on his man (great save).
The longterm fear is that Foden & Bellingham will end up being Gerrard & Lampard 2.0 if the manager is not willing to drop Bellingham deeper.
why should Bellingham go deeper? Foden can play left, right or through the middle but he needs to turn up wherever he starts and have an impact I'd agree though I'd probably leave him out and start Gordon if he doesn't improve, Shaw coming back in as a natural left back might help
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 12:50 - Jun 17 with 1442 views
Decent first 30 minutes or so but faded badly once Serbia got going. TAA didn't convince me in that midfield 2 and Foden was poor the whole game. I thought he should have brought Eze on for Foden in the centre of the attacking 3, moved Bellingham back into that midfield 2 from where he can still get forward as he did so well for his goal, and brought on Gordon to play left side of the 3. As others have said we we were weak left side the whole game. Going forward playing Bellingham in that 2 would give Southgate better possibilities to use the attacking midfield options that are the strength in his squad.
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:07 - Jun 17 with 1356 views
Replacing Saka for Bowen was just a like-for-like tactical switch with a fresh pair of legs. Didn't do anything to make the Serbian players or coach be out of sorts for 10 mins or so.
I'd have brought Eze on to the left and put Foden in the middle as there had been no threat down the left all game so it was much needed to then switch the threat from right to left. Yes, that may mean pushing Bellingham out to the right for the last 15 mins but hopefully that would mean he would draw players away from the middle. That would (hopefully) have destabilised Serbia enough to have maybe snatched a 2nd in that transition period to then make the game safe.
Still, we can all be managers and know what's what after the event. Doing it in real time on the fly is much harder.
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:08 - Jun 17 with 1350 views
England lack of left backs…..this is England not QPR. We struggled to find someone to cover Dykes a while back….but we’re little old qpr. I don’t understand why England can’t just include an actual left back who is fit in the squad. What about the Palace left back, Mitchell? I dont watch much premier league but isnt he better than a bloke who's injured and a right back playing left back? Didn’t Gomez play there when Robertson couldn’t play?
And Trent at centre mid. If he was so good there, why didn’t Klopp play him there? Again, can’t we find someone else in all of England who plays central mid for their club to partner Rice?
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:09 - Jun 17 with 1334 views
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:08 - Jun 17 by JamesB1979
England lack of left backs…..this is England not QPR. We struggled to find someone to cover Dykes a while back….but we’re little old qpr. I don’t understand why England can’t just include an actual left back who is fit in the squad. What about the Palace left back, Mitchell? I dont watch much premier league but isnt he better than a bloke who's injured and a right back playing left back? Didn’t Gomez play there when Robertson couldn’t play?
And Trent at centre mid. If he was so good there, why didn’t Klopp play him there? Again, can’t we find someone else in all of England who plays central mid for their club to partner Rice?
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 12:01 - Jun 17 by daveB
why should Bellingham go deeper? Foden can play left, right or through the middle but he needs to turn up wherever he starts and have an impact I'd agree though I'd probably leave him out and start Gordon if he doesn't improve, Shaw coming back in as a natural left back might help
Weeelllll, I wonder if Bellingham should drop deeper. That's a problem position, and he can play there, and he'll still get up to support the forwards. Then you can play Foden in the middle and Gordon or Eze on the left. Bellingham played quite deep a lot of the time anyway, I don't think it would have an enormous effect on his game.
Bare bones.
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:33 - Jun 17 with 1202 views
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:08 - Jun 17 by JamesB1979
England lack of left backs…..this is England not QPR. We struggled to find someone to cover Dykes a while back….but we’re little old qpr. I don’t understand why England can’t just include an actual left back who is fit in the squad. What about the Palace left back, Mitchell? I dont watch much premier league but isnt he better than a bloke who's injured and a right back playing left back? Didn’t Gomez play there when Robertson couldn’t play?
And Trent at centre mid. If he was so good there, why didn’t Klopp play him there? Again, can’t we find someone else in all of England who plays central mid for their club to partner Rice?
Klopp played him there loads this season (after criticising Gareth for doing it).
Bare bones.
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:35 - Jun 17 with 1195 views
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 10:15 - Jun 17 by MrSheen
Thanks gents for reviving memories of England's group games in 1990. That Ireland game was one of the worst I've ever seen, played in a gale so of course both sides are going to punt it in the air whenever possible. As comfortable an experience as wearing a nylon shirt and polyester trousers on a stalled tube train in August.
England only played well once in that tournament, in the semi final.
Group games awful, well the Dutch one was ok ish. Outplayed and lucky against Belgium (brilliant winning goal though). Lucky again v Cameroon. Watch the highlights and how many times they opened us up.
Yet that WC is fondly remembered and Bobby Robson, who was basically forced into changing to a sweeper system, got a lot of praise.
[Post edited 17 Jun 14:53]
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 14:04 - Jun 17 with 1090 views
I was at the England games at Italia 90. So much talent on the field and you felt Robson was holding them back. Lucky against Cameroon they were all over us at times. Germany game we played with freedom. Easily the best game of football I’ve ever witnessed live. End to end and of the highest quality.
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 14:21 - Jun 17 with 1031 views
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 12:50 - Jun 17 by QPROslo
Decent first 30 minutes or so but faded badly once Serbia got going. TAA didn't convince me in that midfield 2 and Foden was poor the whole game. I thought he should have brought Eze on for Foden in the centre of the attacking 3, moved Bellingham back into that midfield 2 from where he can still get forward as he did so well for his goal, and brought on Gordon to play left side of the 3. As others have said we we were weak left side the whole game. Going forward playing Bellingham in that 2 would give Southgate better possibilities to use the attacking midfield options that are the strength in his squad.
Can someone tell me when Foden has impacted a game for England?
He's never shown his club form for England
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 14:22 - Jun 17 with 1026 views
Very interesting thread with outstanding views and opinions but one glaring omission so far and that is the play or non play of Harry Kane .How did he manage to stay on the field for 90 minutes when you have Ollie Watkins with his pace to destroy the tired Serbian defense late on. Even if HK scored that header it was getting ruled out by VAR I suspect and apart from that he did very little. I would have brought on Palmer for certain and maybe Eze who would feast against the Serbs with all that space in behind . Speaking of Serbia they passed up so many shots in dangerous positions and simply overran the ball or wasted the pass its a major worry because top teams wont be as careless .
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 14:24 - Jun 17 with 1016 views
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:08 - Jun 17 by JamesB1979
England lack of left backs…..this is England not QPR. We struggled to find someone to cover Dykes a while back….but we’re little old qpr. I don’t understand why England can’t just include an actual left back who is fit in the squad. What about the Palace left back, Mitchell? I dont watch much premier league but isnt he better than a bloke who's injured and a right back playing left back? Didn’t Gomez play there when Robertson couldn’t play?
And Trent at centre mid. If he was so good there, why didn’t Klopp play him there? Again, can’t we find someone else in all of England who plays central mid for their club to partner Rice?
Play Gallagheh there, it's where he play for Chelsea, did okay when he came on last night.
Anyone but TAA again
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 14:42 - Jun 17 with 949 views
TAA. It has been mentioned a few times and I agree, I really do not get the hype around him playing in central midfield. As I recall he started to struggle defensively for Liverpool, poor marking and a bit of ball watching etc. So Gary Lineker and his gang decided, that he should play in midfield for England. At one point last night a pass he made was described as a pass the no other player could have made. A good player but not a CM for England.
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Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 14:47 - Jun 17 with 1901 views
Serbia 🇷🇸 v England 🏴 Match Thread on 13:32 - Jun 17 by Antti_Heinola
Weeelllll, I wonder if Bellingham should drop deeper. That's a problem position, and he can play there, and he'll still get up to support the forwards. Then you can play Foden in the middle and Gordon or Eze on the left. Bellingham played quite deep a lot of the time anyway, I don't think it would have an enormous effect on his game.
I just can't see him or any manager playing a midfield 3 of Rice, Bellingham and Foden with 2 attacking wingers as well. That might be something you do when chasing a game but just won't do it from the start.
You could drop him deeper and change Fodens starting position but I'm not sure it changes much, he's already got the freedom to drift into the middle like Bellingham can drop deep if he wants to. Whether Foden starts on the right, left or in the middle he needs to show a lot more imo when playing for England.
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