| EGM + statement on 12:48 - Feb 21 with 3595 views | surb_dale |
| EGM + statement on 12:33 - Feb 21 by A_Newby |
Sorry DDB
I've edited my reply. Administration is an option, just not a good one. |
Would administration mean that SG has less chance of getting his 556k back than if the club was just liquidated and assets sold?
Tbf i can fully understand why he would want to safeguard getting the cash back as its a significant sum. |  | |  |
| EGM + statement on 12:48 - Feb 21 with 3595 views | Duckegg |
| EGM + statement on 12:14 - Feb 21 by A_Newby |
Imagine that you own outright a house worth £1million but you have zero cash in the bank.
You are asset rich but cash poor.
You get a bill for £10,000 that you MUST pay but you do not have the funds to pay it. You could try to borrow some cash but you find that you cannot use your house as collateral because of something in the deeds (Morris amendment, National League).
Your only options is to sell your house to pay the bill (liquidate your assets).
This is similar to the situation at RAFC.
Voluntary administration would be an option but this would only add costs. The administrator would try to sell RAFC as a going concern, probably at a lower price than it is worth.
If an offer of say £2 million was tabled then they would likely accept it. They would then take their cut and distribute any remainder to shareholders.
The new owners would have the business (club) and debts to pay but their £2 million would be in shareholders hands and not the club's coffers.
If they could not sell the club as a going concern then they would then liquidate the company assets anyway, again take their cut, pay the outstanding bills and distribute what's left to shareholders. [Post edited 21 Feb 12:32]
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Dont the administrators take a fee aswell from it all.... |  | | |
| EGM + statement on 13:07 - Feb 21 with 3465 views | A_Newby |
| EGM + statement on 12:48 - Feb 21 by Duckegg |
Dont the administrators take a fee aswell from it all.... |
Yes they get their pay before anybody else gets paid anything.
If the club went into administration would they get a points deduction even if it went to a new owner? |  | | |
| EGM + statement on 13:15 - Feb 21 with 3422 views | Trev |
We are in the National League because of this board's decisions. We are on the precipice of going out of business because of this board's decisions. Make no mistake SG has only continued pouring in money to bide time before he can get an investor in and his money out. I long since lost any faith in his abilities to run a football club and now, even more worryingly, I have lost any remaining hope I had of him acting in the best interests of the football club. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 13:19 - Feb 21 with 3389 views | Cedar_Room |
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the investor waiting in the wings is someone the fans would want to run a mile from. We've already seen the types of people SG has wanted to sell the club to before, and how petulant he got when the last deal fell through because fans had simply done their due diligence. So this, essentially, is about SG scaring shareholders into selling to this new investor who they otherwise would never entertain. As I've said for a while - being in SG's best interests and being in the club's best interests are not necessarily the same thing. I accept he probably cannot invest any more money, no hard feelings about that I don't expect anyone to have unlimited resources - but it's also clear that SG's only concern is recouping his money. And if that means selling to some godawful investor, or seeing the club going into liquidation (rather than administration) so the ground can be sold off and he repaid - so be it.
Whatever the outcome from all this, I think most paths from here lead somewhere terrible and I'd agree with other posts that the club as we know it is probably gone. |  | | |
| EGM + statement on 13:28 - Feb 21 with 3331 views | SaxonDale |
| EGM + statement on 11:00 - Feb 21 by 442Dale |
We were ten points above the drop zone at the end of that January. And the following summer?
Best leave it here, James. There’s no hindsight involved if the financial situation hasn’t been good for the entire period. It’s either one argument or the other.
We were proud to be a football club who cut its cloth accordingly. Simply that. |
Agreed. Nobody at the time was demanding for the board to pay transfer fees for players- we never have. We could also highlight the signing of several players the following summer, on significant wages and with no apparent wage cuts in the case of relegation, as absolutely gross mismanagement. |  | | |
| EGM + statement on 13:41 - Feb 21 with 3256 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM + statement on 13:19 - Feb 21 by Cedar_Room |
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the investor waiting in the wings is someone the fans would want to run a mile from. We've already seen the types of people SG has wanted to sell the club to before, and how petulant he got when the last deal fell through because fans had simply done their due diligence. So this, essentially, is about SG scaring shareholders into selling to this new investor who they otherwise would never entertain. As I've said for a while - being in SG's best interests and being in the club's best interests are not necessarily the same thing. I accept he probably cannot invest any more money, no hard feelings about that I don't expect anyone to have unlimited resources - but it's also clear that SG's only concern is recouping his money. And if that means selling to some godawful investor, or seeing the club going into liquidation (rather than administration) so the ground can be sold off and he repaid - so be it.
Whatever the outcome from all this, I think most paths from here lead somewhere terrible and I'd agree with other posts that the club as we know it is probably gone. |
There is no reason why Simon Gauge could not introduce the Trust Director and the Trust Chairman to the people he is currently in negotiations with, he could do that next week. If the Trust Director is not fully inclusive and i would suggest the Chairman of the Trust also, then that should immediately ring alarm bells. In fact the Trust Director should have flagged that up previously. By doing that, it would put the Trust in a far better position when it comes to liasing with the shareholders and the fan base. Confident Trust representatives would count for a lot when it comes to the upcoming EGM. Let's be honest also, Simon Gauge is bloody hopeless when it comes to sniffing out shysters and doing proper due diligence, that's been proved already. [Post edited 21 Feb 13:43]
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| EGM + statement on 14:05 - Feb 21 with 3110 views | Duckegg |
| EGM + statement on 13:19 - Feb 21 by Cedar_Room |
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the investor waiting in the wings is someone the fans would want to run a mile from. We've already seen the types of people SG has wanted to sell the club to before, and how petulant he got when the last deal fell through because fans had simply done their due diligence. So this, essentially, is about SG scaring shareholders into selling to this new investor who they otherwise would never entertain. As I've said for a while - being in SG's best interests and being in the club's best interests are not necessarily the same thing. I accept he probably cannot invest any more money, no hard feelings about that I don't expect anyone to have unlimited resources - but it's also clear that SG's only concern is recouping his money. And if that means selling to some godawful investor, or seeing the club going into liquidation (rather than administration) so the ground can be sold off and he repaid - so be it.
Whatever the outcome from all this, I think most paths from here lead somewhere terrible and I'd agree with other posts that the club as we know it is probably gone. |
Who is to say that the trust have not met this so called investor/s but are bound by an NDA...
But saying that if they have met this person/s the I hope that they are doing the google searches etc and eventually lets us know..
Surely after 2 failed attempts to sell the club you would think that SG might have learned something
Time will tell.. | | | |
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| EGM + statement on 14:18 - Feb 21 with 3058 views | Cedar_Room |
| EGM + statement on 14:05 - Feb 21 by Duckegg |
Who is to say that the trust have not met this so called investor/s but are bound by an NDA...
But saying that if they have met this person/s the I hope that they are doing the google searches etc and eventually lets us know..
Surely after 2 failed attempts to sell the club you would think that SG might have learned something
Time will tell.. |
if the Trust do meet an investor and are subject to an NDA
-If it's someone sketchy they have no mechanism to raise the alarm with the fans, and the armchair detectives cannot complete their due diligence which was so effective last time.
-If it's someone great (or, at a minimum, alright) they cannot reassure fans that the worst is not just around the corner.
Either way this doesn't seem to help anyone except, perhaps, the self aggrandisement of the people involved (to be clear I have no idea who the people on the Trust are, so this isn't aimed at anyone in particular) | | | |
| EGM + statement on 14:27 - Feb 21 with 3001 views | 442Dale |
The time has come that if people do know information that supporters should be aware of, it’s made public.
And if something has been signed which prevents this, say so and at what point supporters will find out more.
Lack of urgency and action has cost us so much time. Letting one more hour pass is too long if something can be done, regretting missing an opportunity in a few weeks will be too late. That would weigh heavy on the conscience. |  |
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| EGM + statement on 14:46 - Feb 21 with 2918 views | DorkingDale |
| EGM + statement on 13:41 - Feb 21 by TalkingSutty |
There is no reason why Simon Gauge could not introduce the Trust Director and the Trust Chairman to the people he is currently in negotiations with, he could do that next week. If the Trust Director is not fully inclusive and i would suggest the Chairman of the Trust also, then that should immediately ring alarm bells. In fact the Trust Director should have flagged that up previously. By doing that, it would put the Trust in a far better position when it comes to liasing with the shareholders and the fan base. Confident Trust representatives would count for a lot when it comes to the upcoming EGM. Let's be honest also, Simon Gauge is bloody hopeless when it comes to sniffing out shysters and doing proper due diligence, that's been proved already. [Post edited 21 Feb 13:43]
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You only know about the one that got through recently - you don't know how many he sniffed out & rejected. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 14:51 - Feb 21 with 2881 views | DorkingDale |
| EGM + statement on 14:05 - Feb 21 by Duckegg |
Who is to say that the trust have not met this so called investor/s but are bound by an NDA...
But saying that if they have met this person/s the I hope that they are doing the google searches etc and eventually lets us know..
Surely after 2 failed attempts to sell the club you would think that SG might have learned something
Time will tell.. |
Exactly my thoughts - the Trust have met with previous potential investors, so there is no reason to think that they are not fully engaged this time. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 14:58 - Feb 21 with 2829 views | DorkingDale |
| EGM + statement on 14:18 - Feb 21 by Cedar_Room |
if the Trust do meet an investor and are subject to an NDA
-If it's someone sketchy they have no mechanism to raise the alarm with the fans, and the armchair detectives cannot complete their due diligence which was so effective last time.
-If it's someone great (or, at a minimum, alright) they cannot reassure fans that the worst is not just around the corner.
Either way this doesn't seem to help anyone except, perhaps, the self aggrandisement of the people involved (to be clear I have no idea who the people on the Trust are, so this isn't aimed at anyone in particular) |
Well, if it's a single potential investor, The Trust are not really in a position to object - it's a case of grab it or bust.
If there are more, they might have some truck....... | | | |
| EGM + statement on 15:46 - Feb 21 with 2592 views | Down_the_Ale |
| EGM + statement on 14:46 - Feb 21 by DorkingDale |
You only know about the one that got through recently - you don't know how many he sniffed out & rejected. |
He rejected several interested parties the day he walked through the door in favour of "fan owned", "fan led" because he knew fans would lap it up. Aswell as Morton House, there were 3 or 4 others (Martin Halsall being one of the ones in the public domain) seriously interested in purchasing a majority stake in the club before the barriers were errected by Simon and his band of merry men! In 2021 Graham Morris pushed SG forward, amongst others, thinking that finding another £200k per year would help us survive. That thinking was well outdated and more akin to the 90's! | | | |
| EGM + statement on 15:54 - Feb 21 with 2540 views | dingdangblue |
| EGM + statement on 12:33 - Feb 21 by A_Newby |
Sorry DDB
I've edited my reply. Administration is an option, just not a good one. |
But surely a better option for the club than Liquidation?
It just seems Simon has worded it this way for maximum effect in the press. Lots of clubs recently have come out of administration in a better shape - why not say He'd rather sell the club before the end of March or we will be put into Administration. Yes I don't want either to happen but Liquidation seems a lot more like the end. |  |
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| EGM + statement on 16:22 - Feb 21 with 2378 views | Duckegg |
| EGM + statement on 15:54 - Feb 21 by dingdangblue |
But surely a better option for the club than Liquidation?
It just seems Simon has worded it this way for maximum effect in the press. Lots of clubs recently have come out of administration in a better shape - why not say He'd rather sell the club before the end of March or we will be put into Administration. Yes I don't want either to happen but Liquidation seems a lot more like the end. |
Not for SG..
Administration means that he will not get any of his money back where as liquidation is just that liquidate the company and creditors may get a % of their money back..
Where as if SG manages to sell he will hopefully get all his money back or a big % from the deal. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 16:29 - Feb 21 with 2319 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM + statement on 14:46 - Feb 21 by DorkingDale |
You only know about the one that got through recently - you don't know how many he sniffed out & rejected. |
The one that got through recently was embarrassing,. Then we had the idiot in the Blackdog, every clued up fan in the country knew about him, a fella who shouldn't have even been given the time of day. I would suggest Simon Gauge's experience of sniffing out persons of bad intentions is next to zero, he's never mixed in those circles during his professional career. We know there have been some who have progressed as far as having to stump up their money, it's only then that they've been exposed and found to be tyre kickers. [Post edited 21 Feb 16:32]
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| EGM + statement on 16:49 - Feb 21 with 2202 views | blackdogblue |
Hope that “idiot” wasn’t aimed at me TS 😀…
Tyre kickers maybe…. If someone is prepared to save the club by putting air in the rapidly deflating tyre that is better than nothing…
For me, any port in a storm, the Trust & Shareholders still have a minor say & we live to fight another day…
Is that not better than liquidation in desperate times????? |  |
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| EGM + statement on 16:57 - Feb 21 with 2136 views | blackdogblue |
Gauge just been on Sky Sports news… anyone know what he said? | |
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| EGM + statement on 17:08 - Feb 21 with 2059 views | 442Dale |
The chairman is also on Radio Manchester at 6.30pm.
Meanwhile, this article states that shareholders will be “contacted directly within the next 24 hours”
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2024/february/noticeofegm_070324/
The notification of the news, as seen by the time of the tweet yesterday, was 4pm. Has anyone received anything yet?
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| EGM + statement on 17:12 - Feb 21 with 2035 views | NorthernDale |
As I have said, I suspect that somebody may be lined up, but wants total control or 90% control and that is why Simon is seeking to push it through by threats and I suspect he will get his way. But to be honest, the present board have the fan base and we possibly need a new board, I accept that they may be doggy and destroy the club in the long-term, but can we survive under the stewardship of Gauge and Knight. Whoever leaked the information about the club to the media, I personally find their behaviour is inexcusable, by threatening to liquidate the club and going public as well, it seriously undermines the club reputation and can never be forgiven.
As many have indicated we could potential get a loan based on the ground, I believe this as happened before during the covid pandemic, when the club got a loan from the council and again we could go back to the council, the question is why as this not occurred? | | | |
| EGM + statement on 17:12 - Feb 21 with 2031 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM + statement on 16:49 - Feb 21 by blackdogblue |
Hope that “idiot” wasn’t aimed at me TS 😀…
Tyre kickers maybe…. If someone is prepared to save the club by putting air in the rapidly deflating tyre that is better than nothing…
For me, any port in a storm, the Trust & Shareholders still have a minor say & we live to fight another day…
Is that not better than liquidation in desperate times????? |
Fan intervention, we have a stadium and the land that it's built on. Enough land to build apartments/ accomodation behind the Pearl St Stand and maybe get the council involved. The Town stands to lose both the football and rugby club. The Club hasn't been given a chance since Gauge became Chairman, it hasn't been run right and financial streams haven't been tapped into properly as promised. The shareholders and fans are being railroaded into making a decision that will see the death of the club when there are probably other alternatives that need exploring. That's how I feel but I appreciate others feel differently. I don't think liquidation needs to be the first option should investors not be sought, not when we still own the stadium, Ratcliffe Arms etc. I think there would be a outcry if that was allowed to happen. I think there should be a vote of no confidence in the Charman at the EGM and the Trust and the council, local businessmen should try to formulate a plan to save the club. Once we give up the stadium to outside investors we are left with nothing. [Post edited 21 Feb 17:18]
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| EGM + statement on 17:14 - Feb 21 with 2014 views | SuddenLad |
| EGM + statement on 10:05 - Feb 21 by TalkingSutty |
The way they have run the club and their decision making both on and off the pitch is there for all to see, bad decision after bad decision and a complete failure to engage with anybody in a meaningful manner. You comment on people on how you find them. The Chairman even had a swipe at the fans for interfering in the sale of their own club, its a good job they did, look at what he had lined up! He always knows best though. You can only say what you see and there is overwhelming evidence to show that he is out of his depth and so are the rest of the Directors. |
Let no-one be under any illusions. This whole debacle started during the tenure of the Superego who was given the keys to the shop by an absent Chairman who had better things to do locally on a Saturday afternoon, than attend football matches at Spotland, and who presided over some of the most dodgy directors this club has ever assembled.
That unmentionable individual, (The Crying Conman), was chucking club money around like confetti, awarding unaffordable pay rises to his coterie, at a time when we should have been conserving everything we had with a tight belt.
He prepared the way for this situation, almost allowing his chosen bandits through the front door.
Sadly, those who rode to the rescue after he was dethroned, and the bandits had been sent packing, haven't had the business nous to improve our lot, despite them having negotiated a way out of a dodgy situation when set of Essex-based clowns tried to screw us over.
I daren't try to calculate an amount that 4 successive generations of my family have collectively expended in supporting this club, in both time, voluntary work and in every way possible, but I'll wager that it exceeds by far anything that is owed or outstanding to any current individual engaged in running the club.
Yes, they have stumped up their 'hard earned' at a vital time, and as a result the club has continued to operate and I understand why that cannot continue ad infinitum. It's not a bottomless pit. Yet, neither is the goodwill, nor the pockets of supporters.
The current regime, as custodians of the club, have had an absolute and legal obligation to do the very best they can to sustain the viability of the business.
For all the lip service that has been paid to the supporters and Trust over the last couple of years, it seems that they have finally been found out. Despite their largesse, they are inept, unqualified and incompetent in the running of a football club. It's sad that it has come to this, but as long as there is hope, there is a future.
We must believe that there is a way forward and work collectively to that goal.
To think that 1 month's salary of a top Premiership player, would provide the £2 million lifeline we need is a stain on football. How this 'ostrich syndrome' of the higher echelons of English football is seen as acceptable is a disgrace. They are happy to plunder our players for peanuts then conveniently ignore our plight when the dark clouds appear.
Things have to change either voluntarily of by the intervention of the FA. They are complicit in all this and should be ashamed that clubs find themselves in the situation that we are, when there are billions swashing around in the Premier League, of which only pennies reach our level.
Those running the game are entirely unfit for purpose, only interested in rubbing shoulders with the elite at the most expensive hotels, all expenses paid and living the high life to the detriment of the smaller clubs.
Parasites and leeches, the lot of 'em. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| EGM + statement on 17:19 - Feb 21 with 1983 views | Newbury_Dale |
The general consensus of the recent posts is that there's a potential investor waiting in the wings. Don't see it myself. | | | |
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