| EGM + statement on 22:24 - Feb 20 with 3422 views | 49thseason |
So no one wants to fork out for a part of the club .. no surprise. And no one wants to buy 51% at £2.35 or even 76% at that price. Again hardly surprising so they wait until the club is faced with nowhere else to turn to and want 90% for £2m. OK not great for shareholders but at least there seems to be someone who wants to put his money into the club and not shareholders pockets. That bit is the encouraging bit.
I dont think the debts can be too ridiculous at this stage or they would take an administration and then put money in having dumped the debts. So if the bulk of this potential £2m is intended to get the club on the front foot and looking upwards I find it hard to knock it.
The current Board has done what most would have done, tried not to have to put their own cash in (and lets face it the previous board didnt really put any in), but when push came to shove, chose to pay MH rather than risk a possibly more expensive court case. I wouldnt want to accuse them of not doing their best, they simply don't have the sort of money that is needed and have reached the end of what their families will let them put at risk, there is no shame in that.
The club's position has been perilous for much longer than this BoD has been in charge, caused by previous ineptitude, complacency and poor decisions Not to mention the scandalous decision by the EFL to play a season with no fans in the grounds following a curtailed season before it. Still, little point in looking for people to blame, whats done is done, we have to hope this final roll of the dice is successful, and an incoming investor, if there is one, wants to try and emulate the Stockports and Wrexhams of this world.
What a mess... |  | |  |
| EGM + statement on 23:04 - Feb 20 with 3205 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| EGM + statement on 17:20 - Feb 20 by DaleFan7 |
Who's going to mortgage it if we're loss making and potentially won't pay it back though? |
Yes, it's like someone giving you a Rolls Royce, total gratis too.......but can you afford to run it tax it etc? |  | | |
| EGM + statement on 23:20 - Feb 20 with 3119 views | Toffeemanc |
| EGM + statement on 22:10 - Feb 20 by TomRAFC |
Suggesting that the current situation has been an inevitability since 2020, that has only coincidentally happened on their watch, is completely and utterly disingenuous of you.
Less than 2 years ago - "At April 2022, the club has a stable financial platform and cash reserves to be well positioned for next season. We have returned during 2021/22 to being a properly and prudently run football club and aligned our financial reporting year to 30th June alongside many other EFL clubs."
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2022/april/chairmanmessageseasoncards_22-23/
Even recently, we were told at the AGM in December 2023 that we had broken even for the first 2 quarters, such were the improvements made.
We never returned to being a properly and prudently run football club because they don't know what that looks like. This board had the heart and the cash to save the club from the takeover, but they have never had the skills to run it and have subsequently run it into the ground. Yes, the takeover was a factor in that but so is their poor management of the club.
There's a lot to be read and understood within the motions, but I no longer have confidence in the boards abilities to manage any of the possible outcomes. They don't have the skills to run a football club properly, and it's hard to have confidence in their ability to arrange the right deal to sell one.
We've already lost our league status and will likely soon lose our academy. The shares bought by the fans and the trust to save the club could be almost diluted out of existence. Our ground could have zero protection on it. These were the things we were known for as a club.
These motions may be designed to save the club, but I'm wondering what we'd actually have left. [Post edited 20 Feb 22:21]
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Your last two paragraphs are spot on.
“ We've already lost our league status and will likely soon lose our academy. The shares bought by the fans and the trust to save the club could be almost diluted out of existence. Our ground could have zero protection on it. These were the things we were known for as a club.
These motions may be designed to save the club, but I'm wondering what we'd actually have left.”
For me the club will be nothing like we know or recognise if a sale goes through. Fan shareholders will be irrelevant, ownership of the ground is likely to pass to the new owners to do with what they see fit, the Trust will become totally irrelevant and probably not even recognised by the new owners and I also think we will also lose some fans along the way.
Our hopeless chairman may frame this as the only way to save the club, but the cynic in me sees this as more of a way of him trying to ensure he gets as much of his money back as possible than actually putting the club first.
The only thing the Chairman and board have proved in the last 2 years is they haven’t got a clue what they are doing. If they were competent business men they would not have been in the position of having to put large amounts of their own money in each month to keep things running. They should have already made the required adjustments and cut their cloth according to funds available.
If the club is to be sold to some investor to do what they want with and the club as we know it is gone then would administration be any worse for the fans?
If the EGM amendments don’t pass and we go into administration then surely the chairman’s investment will be completely lost and the club is likely to be bought for a pound so why would an investor stump up around £2 million now when they could get it all for a £1 in 6 weeks time?
It seems to me this situation has been inevitable for the last 12 months and turning up to games this season has been like going to visit a terminally ill friend as they slowly slip away.
Whatever the outcome of the EGM and possible subsequent sale the club already feels lost to me and has done for some time. |  |
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| EGM + statement on 23:26 - Feb 20 with 3099 views | RAFCBLUE |
| EGM + statement on 22:10 - Feb 20 by TomRAFC |
Suggesting that the current situation has been an inevitability since 2020, that has only coincidentally happened on their watch, is completely and utterly disingenuous of you.
Less than 2 years ago - "At April 2022, the club has a stable financial platform and cash reserves to be well positioned for next season. We have returned during 2021/22 to being a properly and prudently run football club and aligned our financial reporting year to 30th June alongside many other EFL clubs."
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2022/april/chairmanmessageseasoncards_22-23/
Even recently, we were told at the AGM in December 2023 that we had broken even for the first 2 quarters, such were the improvements made.
We never returned to being a properly and prudently run football club because they don't know what that looks like. This board had the heart and the cash to save the club from the takeover, but they have never had the skills to run it and have subsequently run it into the ground. Yes, the takeover was a factor in that but so is their poor management of the club.
There's a lot to be read and understood within the motions, but I no longer have confidence in the boards abilities to manage any of the possible outcomes. They don't have the skills to run a football club properly, and it's hard to have confidence in their ability to arrange the right deal to sell one.
We've already lost our league status and will likely soon lose our academy. The shares bought by the fans and the trust to save the club could be almost diluted out of existence. Our ground could have zero protection on it. These were the things we were known for as a club.
These motions may be designed to save the club, but I'm wondering what we'd actually have left. [Post edited 20 Feb 22:21]
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If someone buys 9,000,000 shares at 22p then I think what is left is a club with £1.98m of cash and possibly some new owners and/or directors, if those shares are not taken up by existing shareholders.
It’s not disingenuous to suggest this has been coming for a while given the EFL explicitly told us in their written reasons that the investment process had started in 2019, so Andrew Kelly’s very frank statement of affairs in June 2020 was right at the time.
The EFL’s exact words “Back in 2019 the Club had already been exploring proposals for investment which could involved an investor acquiring a controlling interest.”
Paragraph 145 of the written reasons gives all the details of who knew what and when.
Then this in April 2021:
https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/4/sport-news/140334/altman-and-ma
“We regret that we were not able to find a way forward with Rochdale AFC during roughly two years of discussions with the club’s executives and directors. We believe that a multi-million-pound investment in a new training ground, improved facilities, a sporting director, and additional commercial staff would have paid substantial dividends on and off the pitch.
Accepting multi million pound investments usually mean giving away some control. Even Man United have had to do that to access Jim Ratcliffe’s investment into the team and facilities at Old Trafford.
Since 2019 it looks like there has been more than one occassion where investment has been courted.
49th’s post is spot on and shareholders have a choice to vote for or against each motion as they see fit. |  |
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| EGM + statement on 23:35 - Feb 20 with 3038 views | DorkingDale |
| EGM + statement on 22:24 - Feb 20 by 49thseason |
So no one wants to fork out for a part of the club .. no surprise. And no one wants to buy 51% at £2.35 or even 76% at that price. Again hardly surprising so they wait until the club is faced with nowhere else to turn to and want 90% for £2m. OK not great for shareholders but at least there seems to be someone who wants to put his money into the club and not shareholders pockets. That bit is the encouraging bit.
I dont think the debts can be too ridiculous at this stage or they would take an administration and then put money in having dumped the debts. So if the bulk of this potential £2m is intended to get the club on the front foot and looking upwards I find it hard to knock it.
The current Board has done what most would have done, tried not to have to put their own cash in (and lets face it the previous board didnt really put any in), but when push came to shove, chose to pay MH rather than risk a possibly more expensive court case. I wouldnt want to accuse them of not doing their best, they simply don't have the sort of money that is needed and have reached the end of what their families will let them put at risk, there is no shame in that.
The club's position has been perilous for much longer than this BoD has been in charge, caused by previous ineptitude, complacency and poor decisions Not to mention the scandalous decision by the EFL to play a season with no fans in the grounds following a curtailed season before it. Still, little point in looking for people to blame, whats done is done, we have to hope this final roll of the dice is successful, and an incoming investor, if there is one, wants to try and emulate the Stockports and Wrexhams of this world.
What a mess... |
Absolutely.....this situation hasn't happened overnight.
Makes me think of Sliding Doors - if we'd been lucky enough to find investors as Wrexham did it would be a very different story. Ironic that Wrexham took our place in D2.....
But that unique intervention doesn't solve the problem - the Premiership is the richest league & coveted by the of rest the world. Why oh why is that embarrassment of riches not filtering down to the lower leagues?
We are not alone in this financial crisis - so many lower league clubs have not recovered from Covid lockdowns & there will be more victims.
Just sickening...... | | | |
| EGM + statement on 23:42 - Feb 20 with 3019 views | RAFCBLUE |
| EGM + statement on 23:20 - Feb 20 by Toffeemanc |
Your last two paragraphs are spot on.
“ We've already lost our league status and will likely soon lose our academy. The shares bought by the fans and the trust to save the club could be almost diluted out of existence. Our ground could have zero protection on it. These were the things we were known for as a club.
These motions may be designed to save the club, but I'm wondering what we'd actually have left.”
For me the club will be nothing like we know or recognise if a sale goes through. Fan shareholders will be irrelevant, ownership of the ground is likely to pass to the new owners to do with what they see fit, the Trust will become totally irrelevant and probably not even recognised by the new owners and I also think we will also lose some fans along the way.
Our hopeless chairman may frame this as the only way to save the club, but the cynic in me sees this as more of a way of him trying to ensure he gets as much of his money back as possible than actually putting the club first.
The only thing the Chairman and board have proved in the last 2 years is they haven’t got a clue what they are doing. If they were competent business men they would not have been in the position of having to put large amounts of their own money in each month to keep things running. They should have already made the required adjustments and cut their cloth according to funds available.
If the club is to be sold to some investor to do what they want with and the club as we know it is gone then would administration be any worse for the fans?
If the EGM amendments don’t pass and we go into administration then surely the chairman’s investment will be completely lost and the club is likely to be bought for a pound so why would an investor stump up around £2 million now when they could get it all for a £1 in 6 weeks time?
It seems to me this situation has been inevitable for the last 12 months and turning up to games this season has been like going to visit a terminally ill friend as they slowly slip away.
Whatever the outcome of the EGM and possible subsequent sale the club already feels lost to me and has done for some time. |
I’m not sure you are right there.
Under Insolvency law, the overarching duty of an Administrator is to realise the company's assets for the benefit of creditors not shareholders.
We know there is nothing loan related secured on the ground because the Trust told us the National League wouldn’t permit it.
So the all assets would be sold, the main one being the ground.
Preferential creditors and HMRC would be paid first.
Then all other unsecured secured creditors. Directors loans are unsecured creditors.
Then any surplus after paying creditors off is distributed to shareholders.
Say the ground was sold for £2m (the same number as the proposed new share issue raises) then unless there is £2m of debt then shareholders will get a final dividend.
There’s no way an Adminstrator could sell the ground for £1. They’d have to get a formal RICS valuation done. | |
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| EGM + statement on 23:52 - Feb 20 with 2966 views | RAFCBLUE |
| EGM + statement on 23:35 - Feb 20 by DorkingDale |
Absolutely.....this situation hasn't happened overnight.
Makes me think of Sliding Doors - if we'd been lucky enough to find investors as Wrexham did it would be a very different story. Ironic that Wrexham took our place in D2.....
But that unique intervention doesn't solve the problem - the Premiership is the richest league & coveted by the of rest the world. Why oh why is that embarrassment of riches not filtering down to the lower leagues?
We are not alone in this financial crisis - so many lower league clubs have not recovered from Covid lockdowns & there will be more victims.
Just sickening...... |
And even Wrexham won’t be immune when they reach a certain point in League 1 or the Championship.
The one to watch is Everton. They have £1 billion in debts. Depending on where EPL end up relegation will mean Administration for them.
Jim Ratcliffe has put in £158m into Man United today and will top that up with another £79m before the end of 2024.
Our Board are looking for £2m, less than 1% of Ratcliffe’s Man United foray. | |
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| EGM + statement on 00:02 - Feb 21 with 2905 views | Sandyman |
| EGM + statement on 23:26 - Feb 20 by RAFCBLUE |
If someone buys 9,000,000 shares at 22p then I think what is left is a club with £1.98m of cash and possibly some new owners and/or directors, if those shares are not taken up by existing shareholders.
It’s not disingenuous to suggest this has been coming for a while given the EFL explicitly told us in their written reasons that the investment process had started in 2019, so Andrew Kelly’s very frank statement of affairs in June 2020 was right at the time.
The EFL’s exact words “Back in 2019 the Club had already been exploring proposals for investment which could involved an investor acquiring a controlling interest.”
Paragraph 145 of the written reasons gives all the details of who knew what and when.
Then this in April 2021:
https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/4/sport-news/140334/altman-and-ma
“We regret that we were not able to find a way forward with Rochdale AFC during roughly two years of discussions with the club’s executives and directors. We believe that a multi-million-pound investment in a new training ground, improved facilities, a sporting director, and additional commercial staff would have paid substantial dividends on and off the pitch.
Accepting multi million pound investments usually mean giving away some control. Even Man United have had to do that to access Jim Ratcliffe’s investment into the team and facilities at Old Trafford.
Since 2019 it looks like there has been more than one occassion where investment has been courted.
49th’s post is spot on and shareholders have a choice to vote for or against each motion as they see fit. |
You learn from history.
To be quite blasé about estimating an £1.98m investment from an unknown or even viable source with some glee, is akin to what happened at bury.
"Yeehaw, m'name is Day Stewart. Ah'm big in oil in Texas and dangnabbit, ah just LURVE that Dale. I've got a big fancy £2m to buy me a great club and win that there Premeer League".
We'd be naïve in the utmost not to question it. We're not. Ask Moron House. As you know.
It's clear as day (not Stewart) that someone is game to have a punt on RAFC. Great. Just be fookin' honest about it. Then, the longstanding shareholders who genuinely have the best interests of RAFC at heart, can judge properly, rather than be railroaded into making themselves (and Dale Trust) utterly worthless.
"liquidation" is being led by the media (guided by the chairman it must be said) when, the option of administration (should it be that bad) to fall on is still available? Is it really that bad, or is "I want my money back" a bigger concern than RAFC?
We'll see over the next few days. |  | | |
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| EGM + statement on 00:05 - Feb 21 with 2884 views | 442Dale |
You not only learn from history, Sandyman.
History remembers. |  |
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| EGM + statement on 00:29 - Feb 21 with 2801 views | DorkingDale |
| EGM + statement on 23:52 - Feb 20 by RAFCBLUE |
And even Wrexham won’t be immune when they reach a certain point in League 1 or the Championship.
The one to watch is Everton. They have £1 billion in debts. Depending on where EPL end up relegation will mean Administration for them.
Jim Ratcliffe has put in £158m into Man United today and will top that up with another £79m before the end of 2024.
Our Board are looking for £2m, less than 1% of Ratcliffe’s Man United foray. |
...like I said, just sickening. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 04:15 - Feb 21 with 2624 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM + statement on 22:10 - Feb 20 by TomRAFC |
Suggesting that the current situation has been an inevitability since 2020, that has only coincidentally happened on their watch, is completely and utterly disingenuous of you.
Less than 2 years ago - "At April 2022, the club has a stable financial platform and cash reserves to be well positioned for next season. We have returned during 2021/22 to being a properly and prudently run football club and aligned our financial reporting year to 30th June alongside many other EFL clubs."
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2022/april/chairmanmessageseasoncards_22-23/
Even recently, we were told at the AGM in December 2023 that we had broken even for the first 2 quarters, such were the improvements made.
We never returned to being a properly and prudently run football club because they don't know what that looks like. This board had the heart and the cash to save the club from the takeover, but they have never had the skills to run it and have subsequently run it into the ground. Yes, the takeover was a factor in that but so is their poor management of the club.
There's a lot to be read and understood within the motions, but I no longer have confidence in the boards abilities to manage any of the possible outcomes. They don't have the skills to run a football club properly, and it's hard to have confidence in their ability to arrange the right deal to sell one.
We've already lost our league status and will likely soon lose our academy. The shares bought by the fans and the trust to save the club could be almost diluted out of existence. Our ground could have zero protection on it. These were the things we were known for as a club.
These motions may be designed to save the club, but I'm wondering what we'd actually have left. [Post edited 20 Feb 22:21]
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Good post. The current board have been a disaster in terms of actually running the club, look at the state of it. Look how they have just totally ignored the fanbase and shareholders, look how they have made no efforts to engage the people of the Town. Their total focus has been on recouping their outlay by flogging off the club..no engaging with the Trust/ fans/ shareholders from the outset and all of us rolling up our sleeves in a collective manner and working together.They didnt even give it a chance. In fact they've done the opposite and actively shunned offers of help from well meaning and experienced individuals. Not even bothered to reply in some instances.
They talk about investment, investment comes in various guises and not just monetary. We have fans who have invested their whole life's into this club, worked tirelessly without expecting recognition. We have fans who have left their lifesaving and homes to the club. We have thousands of fans who throughout their life's have tipped up their money in support of the club buying season tickets, goldbond, merchandise, shares..generation's of fans who combined have contributed much more financially than the likes of Simon Gauge and others. Wealth is all relevant to each individuals finances anyway.
We now have a Chairman in Simon Gauge and Directors like Richard Knight who have a bad habit of talking at the fans rather than talking to them, they seem to look down their noses at us..that's my perception anyway and I heard it first hand at the AGM when Knight insulted those in the room by asking them how much they were willing to stump up, while highlighting his own outlay. He calls it blunt Yorkshire speak, i call it blowing his own trumpet and so did others in the room. They know the cost of everything but the value of nothing and that's been evident since they walked into the Boardroom. The fact the Chairman admits they didn't know what they were getting into when they took over the club speaks volumes, it's not the first time they've failed to do proper due diligence though. Going forward it's difficult to predict what will happen, but as fans and shareholders we need to have clarity of thought and time to look at the different scenarios, let's not allow ourselves to be railroaded by Simon Gauge and Richard Knight etc because when it comes to decision making their track record is a poor one, the Chairman admitted that in his recent statement. [Post edited 21 Feb 8:31]
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| EGM + statement on 04:37 - Feb 21 with 2603 views | AndyH |
| EGM + statement on 04:15 - Feb 21 by TalkingSutty |
Good post. The current board have been a disaster in terms of actually running the club, look at the state of it. Look how they have just totally ignored the fanbase and shareholders, look how they have made no efforts to engage the people of the Town. Their total focus has been on recouping their outlay by flogging off the club..no engaging with the Trust/ fans/ shareholders from the outset and all of us rolling up our sleeves in a collective manner and working together.They didnt even give it a chance. In fact they've done the opposite and actively shunned offers of help from well meaning and experienced individuals. Not even bothered to reply in some instances.
They talk about investment, investment comes in various guises and not just monetary. We have fans who have invested their whole life's into this club, worked tirelessly without expecting recognition. We have fans who have left their lifesaving and homes to the club. We have thousands of fans who throughout their life's have tipped up their money in support of the club buying season tickets, goldbond, merchandise, shares..generation's of fans who combined have contributed much more financially than the likes of Simon Gauge and others. Wealth is all relevant to each individuals finances anyway.
We now have a Chairman in Simon Gauge and Directors like Richard Knight who have a bad habit of talking at the fans rather than talking to them, they seem to look down their noses at us..that's my perception anyway and I heard it first hand at the AGM when Knight insulted those in the room by asking them how much they were willing to stump up, while highlighting his own outlay. He calls it blunt Yorkshire speak, i call it blowing his own trumpet and so did others in the room. They know the cost of everything but the value of nothing and that's been evident since they walked into the Boardroom. The fact the Chairman admits they didn't know what they were getting into when they took over the club speaks volumes, it's not the first time they've failed to do proper due diligence though. Going forward it's difficult to predict what will happen, but as fans and shareholders we need to have clarity of thought and time to look at the different scenarios, let's not allow ourselves to be railroaded by Simon Gauge and Richard Knight etc because when it comes to decision making their track record is a poor one, the Chairman admitted that in his recent statement. [Post edited 21 Feb 8:31]
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I think we have to all admit that when the current board took over, we were on the cliff edge.
It seems we have taken a giant step forward | | | |
| EGM + statement on 04:39 - Feb 21 with 2601 views | D_Alien |
| EGM + statement on 04:15 - Feb 21 by TalkingSutty |
Good post. The current board have been a disaster in terms of actually running the club, look at the state of it. Look how they have just totally ignored the fanbase and shareholders, look how they have made no efforts to engage the people of the Town. Their total focus has been on recouping their outlay by flogging off the club..no engaging with the Trust/ fans/ shareholders from the outset and all of us rolling up our sleeves in a collective manner and working together.They didnt even give it a chance. In fact they've done the opposite and actively shunned offers of help from well meaning and experienced individuals. Not even bothered to reply in some instances.
They talk about investment, investment comes in various guises and not just monetary. We have fans who have invested their whole life's into this club, worked tirelessly without expecting recognition. We have fans who have left their lifesaving and homes to the club. We have thousands of fans who throughout their life's have tipped up their money in support of the club buying season tickets, goldbond, merchandise, shares..generation's of fans who combined have contributed much more financially than the likes of Simon Gauge and others. Wealth is all relevant to each individuals finances anyway.
We now have a Chairman in Simon Gauge and Directors like Richard Knight who have a bad habit of talking at the fans rather than talking to them, they seem to look down their noses at us..that's my perception anyway and I heard it first hand at the AGM when Knight insulted those in the room by asking them how much they were willing to stump up, while highlighting his own outlay. He calls it blunt Yorkshire speak, i call it blowing his own trumpet and so did others in the room. They know the cost of everything but the value of nothing and that's been evident since they walked into the Boardroom. The fact the Chairman admits they didn't know what they were getting into when they took over the club speaks volumes, it's not the first time they've failed to do proper due diligence though. Going forward it's difficult to predict what will happen, but as fans and shareholders we need to have clarity of thought and time to look at the different scenarios, let's not allow ourselves to be railroaded by Simon Gauge and Richard Knight etc because when it comes to decision making their track record is a poor one, the Chairman admitted that in his recent statement. [Post edited 21 Feb 8:31]
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It certainly isn't the first time
Let's just think back six months to the last EGM, when the board asked shareholders to agree to have the ground put up as equity against the "directors loans". The alternative was "gun to the head" threats to liquidate. The shareholders reluctantly agreed. We left the COA that sunny evening looking at each other and feeling railroaded
The NL wouldn't allow it. Due diligence? No, just wasting our time and their credibility
What's changed since then? Well, further outlay by certain members of the board. Others have left. Others, still, "give it large" on online forums when they highlight problems which just got worse under their watch
So, can any of them be trusted to have got it right this time? They nearly let in shysters at the back end of last year till fans intervened by doing due diligence
We all need to think very carefully. The Trust* might want to consider contingency plans (i'm sure they are) and how the Trust vote will go at this EGM
Of course key directors want out, and their money back, or as much as possible. No real blame about that, they've got lives and families too. What they haven't got is what you refer to TS - that recognition of fan input over generations, not enough to engage properly with the fanbase when it really needed it. That will be their legacy
*Edit: if it wasn't clear before that having a Trust rep on the BoD was a ruse to buy complicity and silence, it damn well should be now
[Post edited 21 Feb 4:51]
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| EGM + statement on 06:09 - Feb 21 with 2514 views | Rodingdale |
Having followed events closely particularly since “we need to move away from being fan owned - gate”. I’ve become first sceptical then distrusting of Gauge. I didn’t believe his story about how he got involved in the first place. He’s an egotist, who thought he was a sort of messiah ex airline pilot from down south. Didn’t stop him being naive and failing to understand the town the club and its history. “The Survivors”. He’s never listened, he thinks he’s smarter than Rochdale folk.
Now it’s got difficult he wants his money back or else the puppy gets it. “I’m prepared to convert my loan to equity” do us a favour Simon. You mean I want my money back.
Question for the RAFCBlue financially literate types. What’s the best way to vote on this motion to get rid of Gauge?
By the way - I’d be happy to go down several levels to be free. We can build a community fan run club we can all be proud of like we once were. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 06:55 - Feb 21 with 2442 views | A_Newby |
I have read both documents and have some opinions that I will keep to myself until I have seen the FAQ sheet from the board.
I will however point out a couple of things if the EGM proposals are agreed (as I understand them).
If the chairman converted all the £566k debt owed to him into equity by buying the new A-class shares @ £0.22 he would purchase around 2,573,000 of the shares taking his total shareholding to 2,683,000 and the total number of shares issued would increase to around 3,550,000.
This would mean he would own just over 75% of the club and jointly with the other directors’ shares, the board would own over 80% of the issued shares.
Someone asked earlier why the over 90% shareholder threshold was “important” to any new investor. It is perhaps achieving the minority shareholding below 10% that is important.
A 10%+ minority shareholding has the right to have the annual company accounts audited.
I would like to know who wrote / composed / had input to the resolution proposals. |  | | |
| EGM + statement on 08:18 - Feb 21 with 2233 views | Duckegg |
Get shot of SG and his cronies and bring in Chris Dunphy to help run the club...
I mentioned Cd due to his valuable knowledge of running a football club which needs tapping into...
Also i stated above' get shot of SG and the board' can this be done in any way shape or form as under his tenure the club as gone from league football to almost out of existance to me and many others this man is the problem.... [Post edited 21 Feb 8:36]
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| EGM + statement on 08:29 - Feb 21 with 2192 views | Down_the_Ale |
Wouldn't trust SG with any vote that he has asked for, and haven't trusted him since the day he walked through the door. Unfortunately there were two people to blame for bringing in someone with no credentials on running a business let alone a football club. One of those people is still miraculously a Director of the club, who has helped oversee some of the most catastrophic decisions in the clubs history including handing the keys over to 'the ego' himself.
Do I thank SG for fighting off all potential investment (not just MH), NO. Do I thank him for putting in £566k of his family's money that he is desperate to recoup, NO, he has cost the club significantly more financially by his actions which now threatens the clubs very existence.
Despite COVID and huge losses as a result the club was on a sound financial footing, until he stripped the club of all cash and got rid of anyone with any experience in running the club, actions only taken to feed the ego.
Well done SG, I applaud you 👏. One man's ego has been allowed to destroy our club, our history, our institution!
Where do we go from here, i just don't know. The horse has bolted and is long gone | | | |
| EGM + statement on 08:36 - Feb 21 with 2159 views | Reedy |
| EGM + statement on 18:31 - Feb 20 by RAFCBLUE |
This day has been coming since Andrew Kelly’s infamous statement in June 2020:
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2020/june/statement--andrew-kelly/
After that statement and whilst Kelly was Chair, the club lost £1.2m in 2021.
With a new Board it lost £0.5m in 2022 and if you assume has lost the same in 2023 and 2024 takes that to about £2.7m over 4 years. It will be there or thereabouts.
Meanwhile, 6 former shareholders sold shares privately for circa £1.2m in 2021 for 42%, as we were told by an international football broker and the EFL.
The current board bought those for £0.5m
Today’s statement is clear, “we would have gone nowhere near the club had we been aware of the hostile takeover attempt that followed.
This looks to be an attempt to put a new £2m into the club. To do that there needs to be a debate and then a vote by shareholders.
Shareholders will now ultimately get to decide which direction the club takes, unlike 2021. |
Are you seriously suggesting that this has been unavoidable?
The current Chairman and Board aren't fit to run a bath, never mind a football club. The running of the club since they came in has been a disgrace, the reason the club is on the brink of liquidation is down to the running of the club since they walked through the door.
You seem to omit the statement from 2022 when the club returned to be a prudently run football club - lets face it, it never was - but that wouldn't fit in with your ridiculous defending of the current board.
You can carry on putting lots of figures, long posts and saying circa a lot - but the reason the club might not be here in two months is become of Simon Gauge and the board, no one else. [Post edited 21 Feb 8:45]
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| EGM + statement on 08:44 - Feb 21 with 2110 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM + statement on 08:36 - Feb 21 by Reedy |
Are you seriously suggesting that this has been unavoidable?
The current Chairman and Board aren't fit to run a bath, never mind a football club. The running of the club since they came in has been a disgrace, the reason the club is on the brink of liquidation is down to the running of the club since they walked through the door.
You seem to omit the statement from 2022 when the club returned to be a prudently run football club - lets face it, it never was - but that wouldn't fit in with your ridiculous defending of the current board.
You can carry on putting lots of figures, long posts and saying circa a lot - but the reason the club might not be here in two months is become of Simon Gauge and the board, no one else. [Post edited 21 Feb 8:45]
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Our attendances have held up this season and we have received the full parachute payments. It makes you wonder why we are staring down the barrel of the gun and the Chairman etc are threatening the shareholders with liquidation of the club? They want a scenario that suits themselves in relation to the future of the club and expect the shareholders and fans to do as they are told. [Post edited 21 Feb 8:47]
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| EGM + statement on 08:48 - Feb 21 with 2073 views | Down_the_Ale |
| EGM + statement on 08:44 - Feb 21 by TalkingSutty |
Our attendances have held up this season and we have received the full parachute payments. It makes you wonder why we are staring down the barrel of the gun and the Chairman etc are threatening the shareholders with liquidation of the club? They want a scenario that suits themselves in relation to the future of the club and expect the shareholders and fans to do as they are told. [Post edited 21 Feb 8:47]
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Cash is key to any business, even profitable ones, but when SG decided to repay a low interest loan in excess of £300k, the writing was on the wall. Clear that he had no business sense! | | | |
| EGM + statement on 08:49 - Feb 21 with 2053 views | surb_dale |
| EGM + statement on 06:55 - Feb 21 by A_Newby |
I have read both documents and have some opinions that I will keep to myself until I have seen the FAQ sheet from the board.
I will however point out a couple of things if the EGM proposals are agreed (as I understand them).
If the chairman converted all the £566k debt owed to him into equity by buying the new A-class shares @ £0.22 he would purchase around 2,573,000 of the shares taking his total shareholding to 2,683,000 and the total number of shares issued would increase to around 3,550,000.
This would mean he would own just over 75% of the club and jointly with the other directors’ shares, the board would own over 80% of the issued shares.
Someone asked earlier why the over 90% shareholder threshold was “important” to any new investor. It is perhaps achieving the minority shareholding below 10% that is important.
A 10%+ minority shareholding has the right to have the annual company accounts audited.
I would like to know who wrote / composed / had input to the resolution proposals. |
This is my understanding of the plan...
One of the resolutions is to create 9 million 'A' shares at 22p.
9mill * 22p = £1.98 million
So pretty much the 2million being called for. This cash would go into the club.
I assume a new investor would buy all these shares.
The existing total shares in issue i believe is 1.35 million so adding the 9m gives total of 10.35million shares.
Therefore a new investor would in effect own 87% as a result so they'd only need another 3% to get to the 90% threshold. Gauge or one of the other directors could sell some or all of their holding in a private sale in order for the new investor to get to the 90%. There is also a number (300K?) of available 'ordinary' shares that the club has struggled to flog at an overvalued £2.25 but i doubt an investor would want to buy these at that price. Especially when they are buying the 'A' shares at a massively discounted 22p.
Its possible that the 556k debt to equity that is mentioned would mean Gauge being handed a portion of the 'A' shares by the new investor as these will get priority (if the resolution is passed) in the event of liquidation with holders of the ordinary shares being last in the queue to get anything back.
Thats my take on it but might be way off the mark. I assume there is an investor waiting in the wings should the resolutions get passed but doesnt look like we'll find out who they are until after the EGM. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 08:57 - Feb 21 with 1987 views | pioneer |
| EGM + statement on 06:09 - Feb 21 by Rodingdale |
Having followed events closely particularly since “we need to move away from being fan owned - gate”. I’ve become first sceptical then distrusting of Gauge. I didn’t believe his story about how he got involved in the first place. He’s an egotist, who thought he was a sort of messiah ex airline pilot from down south. Didn’t stop him being naive and failing to understand the town the club and its history. “The Survivors”. He’s never listened, he thinks he’s smarter than Rochdale folk.
Now it’s got difficult he wants his money back or else the puppy gets it. “I’m prepared to convert my loan to equity” do us a favour Simon. You mean I want my money back.
Question for the RAFCBlue financially literate types. What’s the best way to vote on this motion to get rid of Gauge?
By the way - I’d be happy to go down several levels to be free. We can build a community fan run club we can all be proud of like we once were. |
We know that the proposal is about looking after SGs interests, otherwise it wouldnt be proposed. Sadly he has shown himself to prioritise self interest over the interests of the 116 year old football club. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 09:21 - Feb 21 with 1874 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM + statement on 08:49 - Feb 21 by surb_dale |
This is my understanding of the plan...
One of the resolutions is to create 9 million 'A' shares at 22p.
9mill * 22p = £1.98 million
So pretty much the 2million being called for. This cash would go into the club.
I assume a new investor would buy all these shares.
The existing total shares in issue i believe is 1.35 million so adding the 9m gives total of 10.35million shares.
Therefore a new investor would in effect own 87% as a result so they'd only need another 3% to get to the 90% threshold. Gauge or one of the other directors could sell some or all of their holding in a private sale in order for the new investor to get to the 90%. There is also a number (300K?) of available 'ordinary' shares that the club has struggled to flog at an overvalued £2.25 but i doubt an investor would want to buy these at that price. Especially when they are buying the 'A' shares at a massively discounted 22p.
Its possible that the 556k debt to equity that is mentioned would mean Gauge being handed a portion of the 'A' shares by the new investor as these will get priority (if the resolution is passed) in the event of liquidation with holders of the ordinary shares being last in the queue to get anything back.
Thats my take on it but might be way off the mark. I assume there is an investor waiting in the wings should the resolutions get passed but doesnt look like we'll find out who they are until after the EGM. |
Look at the last clowns they had lined up as investors a couple of months ago, the fans sussed them out within a hour or two. The Chairman was taken for a ride, he is out of his depth and has no credentials to be even fronting any sale of the club or leading negotiations. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 09:26 - Feb 21 with 1857 views | FatBoyCassy |
What if there is a potential investor waiting with the £2M required? What if their investment is conditional on the resolutions being passed at the EGM? What if that investor is Simon Gauge? | | | |
| EGM + statement on 09:37 - Feb 21 with 1806 views | EllDale |
The answer to the first two questions is maybe.
I would discount the third one entirely. SG just wants out asap. | | | |
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