| Senedd reform bill on 09:48 - Sep 28 with 1846 views | Badgeman |
| Senedd reform bill on 16:03 - Sep 27 by SullutaCreturned |
Your point is wrong, about the electorate I mean. A minority percentage keep returning certain politicians. Over 50 % of the electorate never vote in a Senedd election.
The last Senedd referendum the turnout was only 35%.
Hardly the numbers of popularity. The truth there could be that the ony abolitionists to stand have been raving looneys.
What we need is a sensible alternative, until we find one we are stuck with the same donkeys. |
If all the abolitionists are mental, maybe it says something about the kind of people that brand of politics attracts. Why is it up to everyone else to do the hard work for you. If abolitionism was more popular than keeping the Senedd, they’d have an easier time of it because of reduced turnout.
If your point is more people would be abolitionist if they bothered to vote, well done you’ve just discovered that your opinion isn’t actually that popular. You can’t argue that the Senedd isn’t popular because of low turnout when people who want to abolish it keep losing in low turnout elections. Abolitionists are quantifiably less popular because they keep losing. |  |
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| Senedd reform bill on 16:09 - Sep 29 with 1790 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Senedd reform bill on 09:48 - Sep 28 by Badgeman |
If all the abolitionists are mental, maybe it says something about the kind of people that brand of politics attracts. Why is it up to everyone else to do the hard work for you. If abolitionism was more popular than keeping the Senedd, they’d have an easier time of it because of reduced turnout.
If your point is more people would be abolitionist if they bothered to vote, well done you’ve just discovered that your opinion isn’t actually that popular. You can’t argue that the Senedd isn’t popular because of low turnout when people who want to abolish it keep losing in low turnout elections. Abolitionists are quantifiably less popular because they keep losing. |
Now take it slowly, the majority of people in Wales don't vote in Senedd elections whereas, on the other hand, the majority of people do vote in General Elections.
You seem to be arguing that people love the Senedd so they don't vote?
Maybe we should double the size of the Swansea.com because clearly there may be a very large group of people who love the Swans but don't go.
Nearly as many people signed a petition as voted for Labour and then there's this,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/if-you-think-20mph-hard-27795671
Apparently we aint seen nothing yet, I can't wait. |  | | |
| Senedd reform bill on 20:54 - Sep 29 with 1733 views | union_jack |
| Senedd reform bill on 16:09 - Sep 29 by SullutaCreturned |
Now take it slowly, the majority of people in Wales don't vote in Senedd elections whereas, on the other hand, the majority of people do vote in General Elections.
You seem to be arguing that people love the Senedd so they don't vote?
Maybe we should double the size of the Swansea.com because clearly there may be a very large group of people who love the Swans but don't go.
Nearly as many people signed a petition as voted for Labour and then there's this,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/if-you-think-20mph-hard-27795671
Apparently we aint seen nothing yet, I can't wait. |
Agent Lee, the Tories most powerful weapon. |  |
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| Senedd reform bill on 23:32 - Sep 29 with 1716 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Senedd reform bill on 16:09 - Sep 29 by SullutaCreturned |
Now take it slowly, the majority of people in Wales don't vote in Senedd elections whereas, on the other hand, the majority of people do vote in General Elections.
You seem to be arguing that people love the Senedd so they don't vote?
Maybe we should double the size of the Swansea.com because clearly there may be a very large group of people who love the Swans but don't go.
Nearly as many people signed a petition as voted for Labour and then there's this,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/if-you-think-20mph-hard-27795671
Apparently we aint seen nothing yet, I can't wait. |
More people have signed the petition than voted for Labour in the last Senedd elections. The constituencies with the most signature are Labour with 11,344 in Drakeford's Cardiff constituency. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 10:11 - Sep 30 with 1670 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Senedd reform bill on 09:48 - Sep 28 by Badgeman |
If all the abolitionists are mental, maybe it says something about the kind of people that brand of politics attracts. Why is it up to everyone else to do the hard work for you. If abolitionism was more popular than keeping the Senedd, they’d have an easier time of it because of reduced turnout.
If your point is more people would be abolitionist if they bothered to vote, well done you’ve just discovered that your opinion isn’t actually that popular. You can’t argue that the Senedd isn’t popular because of low turnout when people who want to abolish it keep losing in low turnout elections. Abolitionists are quantifiably less popular because they keep losing. |
I didn't say ALL the abolitionists are mental, just those that chose to stand. God, comprehension is a hard thing for you.
Tell me again why saying I hope nobody you know gets cancer is a bad thing?
Yor second paragraph s again, glaringly wrong. We don't know that abolition isn't that popular because we don't have a proper debate about it and we will never be allowed a vote. That point says something, if the pro Senedd and indeed the Senedd are so sure they'd win, why deny us the vote? Maybe Brexit taught them something because all the experts and all the polls said we'd never vote to leave.
Of course I can argue the Senedd isn't that popular, the low turnout (once more for the hard of thinking) shows that over 50% of those who could vote, choose to ignore it. Yet at the last GE 67% voted so Westminster, as deeply unpopular as it is, still gets a higher turnout. That also suggests that 33% of the electorate thnk both places are a waste of space and not worth engaging with.
The abolitionists who stood also didn't stand in every seat in Wales so it isn't a quantifiable number, it is only quzntifiable in the seats they stood in and AGAIN, they were a bunch of idiots with some nasty views that no sensible person should vote for, a bit like the BNP, even in the BNP manifesto a lot of people could find ONE thing they agree with.
What is crazy, in my opinion, is sayingthe Senedd is clearly popular because the majority never bother to vote. To be popular the majority would have to bother with it surely?
A final word, the petition to rescind the 20mph law has passed 450k, that means that more people have signed it than voted for Welsh Labour in the last Senedd election, that means that even if allowing for several thousand fake signatures, it is more popular than Welsh Labour. That definitely is quantifiable. | | | |
| Senedd reform bill on 12:17 - Sep 30 with 1626 views | Badgeman |
| Senedd reform bill on 16:09 - Sep 29 by SullutaCreturned |
Now take it slowly, the majority of people in Wales don't vote in Senedd elections whereas, on the other hand, the majority of people do vote in General Elections.
You seem to be arguing that people love the Senedd so they don't vote?
Maybe we should double the size of the Swansea.com because clearly there may be a very large group of people who love the Swans but don't go.
Nearly as many people signed a petition as voted for Labour and then there's this,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/if-you-think-20mph-hard-27795671
Apparently we aint seen nothing yet, I can't wait. |
"you seem to be arguing..." and you've got the cheek to say I have bad comprehension lol.
Why don't we start with things I'm actually saying, which is politicians who are pro devolution are more popular than abolitionists. We know this because of who gets elected in Wales. Its a really simple argument and instead of engaging with it you've thrown up bizarre non sequiturs about stadium capacity and petitions. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 12:37 - Sep 30 with 1609 views | Badgeman |
| Senedd reform bill on 10:11 - Sep 30 by SullutaCreturned |
I didn't say ALL the abolitionists are mental, just those that chose to stand. God, comprehension is a hard thing for you.
Tell me again why saying I hope nobody you know gets cancer is a bad thing?
Yor second paragraph s again, glaringly wrong. We don't know that abolition isn't that popular because we don't have a proper debate about it and we will never be allowed a vote. That point says something, if the pro Senedd and indeed the Senedd are so sure they'd win, why deny us the vote? Maybe Brexit taught them something because all the experts and all the polls said we'd never vote to leave.
Of course I can argue the Senedd isn't that popular, the low turnout (once more for the hard of thinking) shows that over 50% of those who could vote, choose to ignore it. Yet at the last GE 67% voted so Westminster, as deeply unpopular as it is, still gets a higher turnout. That also suggests that 33% of the electorate thnk both places are a waste of space and not worth engaging with.
The abolitionists who stood also didn't stand in every seat in Wales so it isn't a quantifiable number, it is only quzntifiable in the seats they stood in and AGAIN, they were a bunch of idiots with some nasty views that no sensible person should vote for, a bit like the BNP, even in the BNP manifesto a lot of people could find ONE thing they agree with.
What is crazy, in my opinion, is sayingthe Senedd is clearly popular because the majority never bother to vote. To be popular the majority would have to bother with it surely?
A final word, the petition to rescind the 20mph law has passed 450k, that means that more people have signed it than voted for Welsh Labour in the last Senedd election, that means that even if allowing for several thousand fake signatures, it is more popular than Welsh Labour. That definitely is quantifiable. |
"we don't have a proper debate about it and we will never be allowed a vote."
WRONG. Abolish leaders were included in the TV debates prior to the previous election despite them having never gained a Senedd seat in an election. You're not denied a vote at all. You have the option to elect "pro abolish" members at every Senedd election at constituency and list level. Heck, you can even put yourself forward, thats democracy. So stop crying about how you keep losing and maybe campaign harder?
https://nation.cymru/news/bbc-defends-decision-to-include-abolish-in-leaders-deb
Its no-ones fault but the abolitionists that they couldn't get candidates to stand in every constituency seat. Imagine any other political party complaining that the reason they lost is because they didnt have enough candidates and the ones they did have were awful lol. However, abolish did stand candidates in every region and got a grand total of less than 4% of the vote across Wales.
The only statement I've made regarding the Senedds popularity is that keeping the institution is more popular than abolishing it based on, you know, the election results that keep demonstrating that to be the case.
Elections are better for measuring the popularity of politicians, not petitions. That's why we don't have a mass petition every 5 years to decide who gets to run the country. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 14:26 - Sep 30 with 1575 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Senedd reform bill on 12:37 - Sep 30 by Badgeman |
"we don't have a proper debate about it and we will never be allowed a vote."
WRONG. Abolish leaders were included in the TV debates prior to the previous election despite them having never gained a Senedd seat in an election. You're not denied a vote at all. You have the option to elect "pro abolish" members at every Senedd election at constituency and list level. Heck, you can even put yourself forward, thats democracy. So stop crying about how you keep losing and maybe campaign harder?
https://nation.cymru/news/bbc-defends-decision-to-include-abolish-in-leaders-deb
Its no-ones fault but the abolitionists that they couldn't get candidates to stand in every constituency seat. Imagine any other political party complaining that the reason they lost is because they didnt have enough candidates and the ones they did have were awful lol. However, abolish did stand candidates in every region and got a grand total of less than 4% of the vote across Wales.
The only statement I've made regarding the Senedds popularity is that keeping the institution is more popular than abolishing it based on, you know, the election results that keep demonstrating that to be the case.
Elections are better for measuring the popularity of politicians, not petitions. That's why we don't have a mass petition every 5 years to decide who gets to run the country. |
I don't keep losing, I never had an abolitionist to vote for.
Well done for not comprehending what I meant by comprehension though.
You said,
The only statement I've made regarding the Senedds popularity is that keeping the institution is more popular than abolishing it based on, you know, the election results that keep demonstrating that to be the case.
Wrong again, the result of an election doesn't prove the Senedd is popular. All it proves is which party is most popular amongst those who voted. When over half the electorate never vote it is fair enough to say they don't like and/or aren't bothered about theSenedd. When voting is the best of a bad choice and you accept you have voted despite the politcian not really being good enough, it doesn't mean the politician is popular. being the least worst candidate is hardly good. | | | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 15:02 - Sep 30 with 1548 views | Badgeman |
| Senedd reform bill on 14:26 - Sep 30 by SullutaCreturned |
I don't keep losing, I never had an abolitionist to vote for.
Well done for not comprehending what I meant by comprehension though.
You said,
The only statement I've made regarding the Senedds popularity is that keeping the institution is more popular than abolishing it based on, you know, the election results that keep demonstrating that to be the case.
Wrong again, the result of an election doesn't prove the Senedd is popular. All it proves is which party is most popular amongst those who voted. When over half the electorate never vote it is fair enough to say they don't like and/or aren't bothered about theSenedd. When voting is the best of a bad choice and you accept you have voted despite the politcian not really being good enough, it doesn't mean the politician is popular. being the least worst candidate is hardly good. |
You did have abolitionist to vote for at the last election. Abolish, reform, and UKIP all stood on platforms to abolish the Senedd. They all lost.
Politicians who get elected are more popular than the politicians they beat and thus don’t get elected. That’s kind of self evident in a democracy. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 09:53 - Oct 1 with 1499 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Senedd reform bill on 15:02 - Sep 30 by Badgeman |
You did have abolitionist to vote for at the last election. Abolish, reform, and UKIP all stood on platforms to abolish the Senedd. They all lost.
Politicians who get elected are more popular than the politicians they beat and thus don’t get elected. That’s kind of self evident in a democracy. |
Over 454,000 think the Senedd is unpopular and that is just on one issue. Another 3 anti senedd petitions are in the top ten of Senedd petitions. Even Drakeford accepts his senedd is unpopular. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 14:02 - Oct 1 with 1461 views | Badgeman |
| Senedd reform bill on 09:53 - Oct 1 by felixstowe_jack |
Over 454,000 think the Senedd is unpopular and that is just on one issue. Another 3 anti senedd petitions are in the top ten of Senedd petitions. Even Drakeford accepts his senedd is unpopular. |
As I’ve said previously, you’re conflating opposition to one policy with widespread opposition to devolution. It’s an easy mistake to make if you’re a complete moron.
As I’ve also said previously, conservatives like yourself will abandon democracy before you abandon conservatism. You want to abolish the Senedd because your no mark leaders like Andrew RT Davies are so repulsive to the Welsh electorate they can’t even beat muppets like Lee Waters. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 15:02 - Oct 1 with 1457 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Senedd reform bill on 14:02 - Oct 1 by Badgeman |
As I’ve said previously, you’re conflating opposition to one policy with widespread opposition to devolution. It’s an easy mistake to make if you’re a complete moron.
As I’ve also said previously, conservatives like yourself will abandon democracy before you abandon conservatism. You want to abolish the Senedd because your no mark leaders like Andrew RT Davies are so repulsive to the Welsh electorate they can’t even beat muppets like Lee Waters. |
It is not my decision to abolish rhe Senedd that is upto to the people of Wales who are showing their growing dissatisfaction with nearly every policy that Drakeford comes up with.
Of course the left, like you, always restort to abuse to anyone with different views to theirs. I don't think you are a moron you just behave like one proving labour are the true party. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 15:28 - Oct 1 with 1440 views | Badgeman |
| Senedd reform bill on 15:02 - Oct 1 by felixstowe_jack |
It is not my decision to abolish rhe Senedd that is upto to the people of Wales who are showing their growing dissatisfaction with nearly every policy that Drakeford comes up with.
Of course the left, like you, always restort to abuse to anyone with different views to theirs. I don't think you are a moron you just behave like one proving labour are the true party. |
I don’t resort to name calling because you’re a conservative. I’ve got plenty of friends who are intelligent and right leaning. I’m calling you a moron because you appear to relish wallowing in your own ignorance.
You’re a low information voter and deserve to be called out as such. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 16:57 - Oct 1 with 1400 views | onehunglow |
| Senedd reform bill on 15:28 - Oct 1 by Badgeman |
I don’t resort to name calling because you’re a conservative. I’ve got plenty of friends who are intelligent and right leaning. I’m calling you a moron because you appear to relish wallowing in your own ignorance.
You’re a low information voter and deserve to be called out as such. |
You need to reread your abuse post and apologise .
It’s important to look into the glass | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 05:50 - Oct 3 with 1250 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Senedd reform bill on 15:28 - Oct 1 by Badgeman |
I don’t resort to name calling because you’re a conservative. I’ve got plenty of friends who are intelligent and right leaning. I’m calling you a moron because you appear to relish wallowing in your own ignorance.
You’re a low information voter and deserve to be called out as such. |
Still resorting to abuse disregarding the of rukes forum.
I respect your right to having different views but so sad you can't listen to any other views other than your own. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 05:52 - Oct 3 with 1249 views | felixstowe_jack |
Lord Blunkett closed list are not democratic. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 06:57 - Oct 3 with 1233 views | majorraglan |
| Senedd reform bill on 05:52 - Oct 3 by felixstowe_jack |
Lord Blunkett closed list are not democratic. |
I can see why having a closed list would be attractive in some circumstances, but I’m against it and agree with Blunkett. | | | |
| Senedd reform bill on 16:32 - Oct 5 with 1130 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Senedd reform bill on 15:02 - Sep 30 by Badgeman |
You did have abolitionist to vote for at the last election. Abolish, reform, and UKIP all stood on platforms to abolish the Senedd. They all lost.
Politicians who get elected are more popular than the politicians they beat and thus don’t get elected. That’s kind of self evident in a democracy. |
And I've already told you I wouldn't vote for nut jobs and loonies, those groups all fit that bill.
Whoever I vote for has to have more about them than just one policy. | | | |
| Senedd reform bill on 06:35 - Oct 13 with 967 views | felixstowe_jack |
Not like Drakeford to ignore the wishes of the Welsh people is it. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 14:15 - Oct 13 with 928 views | Badgeman |
| Senedd reform bill on 06:35 - Oct 13 by felixstowe_jack |
Not like Drakeford to ignore the wishes of the Welsh people is it. |
How is enacting a policy that was in his manifesto which he was elected on ignoring the wishes of the Welsh people? | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 15:41 - Oct 13 with 888 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Senedd reform bill on 14:15 - Oct 13 by Badgeman |
How is enacting a policy that was in his manifesto which he was elected on ignoring the wishes of the Welsh people? |
Well seeing as it seems so unpopular, maybe we'll find out at the next elections. | | | |
| Senedd reform bill on 16:18 - Oct 13 with 865 views | Badgeman |
| Senedd reform bill on 15:41 - Oct 13 by SullutaCreturned |
Well seeing as it seems so unpopular, maybe we'll find out at the next elections. |
That's the brilliant thing about democracy and elections. People have the right to change their mind if they don't like something.
All the talk of a referendum is childish political posturing. Senedd expansion was in both Labour and Plaid's manifesto so they have a mandate for it. | |
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| Senedd reform bill on 18:26 - Oct 13 with 827 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Senedd reform bill on 16:18 - Oct 13 by Badgeman |
That's the brilliant thing about democracy and elections. People have the right to change their mind if they don't like something.
All the talk of a referendum is childish political posturing. Senedd expansion was in both Labour and Plaid's manifesto so they have a mandate for it. |
Yes but nowhere in their manifesto was it mentioned the expansion would mean members being appointed from a list and would not be directly elected. | |
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