| FFP - Break it down for me 10:10 - Jan 29 with 6692 views | Monkey_Roots |
I know we’re restricted by FFP, and I know what led us to this point, but I don’t know the ins and outs.
Can someone who knows break it all down - what it means now, and what consequences it has for the future, and what puts it right.
I’ve been pretty ignorant when it comes to the running of the club, to be honest, and want to understand some of the frustrations others have on here. |  | | |  |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 19:21 - Jan 29 with 1891 views | daveB |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 17:01 - Jan 29 by traininvain |
Forgive my ignorance but if we’re heading towards a points deduction and transfer embargo wouldn’t it make sense for our owners to use this transfer window and / or the summer to strengthen the squad before we’re well and truly screwed? Or would that mean a heftier fine due to bigger financial losses?
If we’re in danger of breaching FFP with our comparatively modest transfer dealings and budget surely most Championship clubs are in the same situation. Surely something has to give as the football league can’t slap transfer embargoes and point deductions on several clubs without risking the integrity of the division. |
would only make matters worse I think if we spent big but I'm no expert on this so could be wrong
Pretty much every club without parachute payments are in the same boat unless they sell players for profit or go up |  | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 19:37 - Jan 29 with 1841 views | Monkey_Roots |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 19:21 - Jan 29 by daveB |
would only make matters worse I think if we spent big but I'm no expert on this so could be wrong
Pretty much every club without parachute payments are in the same boat unless they sell players for profit or go up |
If you wipe your ar$e with FFP and spend a fortune, and go up, do you still get punished? | | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 19:41 - Jan 29 with 1838 views | terryb |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 19:37 - Jan 29 by Monkey_Roots |
If you wipe your ar$e with FFP and spend a fortune, and go up, do you still get punished? |
Yes, but it can only be implemented if you are relegated back to the EFL.
Leicester, Bournemouth & perhaps others, stayed up & negoiated a settlemmnt with the EFL for a punishment less than what would have been enforced if they had gone back down. |  | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 19:45 - Jan 29 with 1828 views | Monkey_Roots |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 19:41 - Jan 29 by terryb |
Yes, but it can only be implemented if you are relegated back to the EFL.
Leicester, Bournemouth & perhaps others, stayed up & negoiated a settlemmnt with the EFL for a punishment less than what would have been enforced if they had gone back down. |
So, the possibility is there, we just need a structure in place to be able to oversee this strategy without completely messing it up like last time (x2). | | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 20:02 - Jan 29 with 1787 views | terryb |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 19:45 - Jan 29 by Monkey_Roots |
So, the possibility is there, we just need a structure in place to be able to oversee this strategy without completely messing it up like last time (x2). |
The EFL wouldn't have to settle with the club & could just wait for the next relegation, no matter how many years later that was. We would also be judged having previous convictions in place!
I'm not sure what this stragergy would be as only Palace, Leicester, Leeds & Forest have been promoted since we were in 2011 & not been relegated. Four out of 33 & they've all been mighty close! | | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 20:10 - Jan 29 with 1774 views | PunteR |
Tony Fernandes, our chairman at the time signed up to the FFP agreement.
He then went out and completely ignored the rules and overspent thereby incurring a record breaking £40 million fine which in turn caused a set back of approx 10,20.50 years and the board basically mothballing the club. |  |
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 18:37 - Jan 30 with 1618 views | derbyhoop |
Income from Season Tickets and Match day at turnstiles - around 8m
25 1st XI squad at 10,000 per week (guesstimate avg) = 12.5m
Add youth team, management and running costs it's not difficult to see how we lose 1.5-2.0m per month. |  |
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 20:32 - Jan 30 with 1515 views | SimonD |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 20:10 - Jan 29 by PunteR |
Tony Fernandes, our chairman at the time signed up to the FFP agreement.
He then went out and completely ignored the rules and overspent thereby incurring a record breaking £40 million fine which in turn caused a set back of approx 10,20.50 years and the board basically mothballing the club. |
You do know that we fought for years to get our £42 million fine reduced to £17 million (plus £3 million costs) and that this is nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with our current battle to remain under the rolling 3-year £39 million figure, don't you? | | | |
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 20:47 - Jan 30 with 1489 views | HAYESBOY |
A specific question to Hoos, shirley? Are we about to break FFP rules in the next year without selling players. Simples!
Otherwise people are guessing. |  |
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 21:16 - Jan 30 with 1398 views | OldPedro |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 20:47 - Jan 30 by HAYESBOY |
A specific question to Hoos, shirley? Are we about to break FFP rules in the next year without selling players. Simples!
Otherwise people are guessing. |
I doubt he will answer that directly. If another club is after one of our players and knows that we are desperate for the sale to meet FFP, our ability to maximize any transfer fee will be weakened significantly. |  |
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 21:39 - Jan 30 with 1344 views | stainrods_elbow |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 21:16 - Jan 30 by OldPedro |
I doubt he will answer that directly. If another club is after one of our players and knows that we are desperate for the sale to meet FFP, our ability to maximize any transfer fee will be weakened significantly. |
Why? We would just need to show pride, hold our nerve and make sure no one leaves - another football cliche spoiler alert - unless the buyer meets the valuation of the club. Another thing we've been historically bad at. |  |
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 21:50 - Jan 30 with 1334 views | baz_qpr |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 20:32 - Jan 30 by SimonD |
You do know that we fought for years to get our £42 million fine reduced to £17 million (plus £3 million costs) and that this is nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with our current battle to remain under the rolling 3-year £39 million figure, don't you? |
Also on this point they were carrying ridiculous overheads from the Prem so even if we cancelled every contract for who we had the costs of doing so would have taken us well over the limit, they did the only thing they could do at the time which was to throw everything at it to go straight back up again |  | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 22:37 - Jan 30 with 1238 views | daveB |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 18:26 - Jan 29 by Monkey_Roots |
Can we make the vip boxes £1,000,000 per head, per game (say each one holds 50) and then the owners book the boxes using fake names etc? |
That might be called fraud | | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 22:42 - Jan 30 with 1231 views | hantssi |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 20:02 - Jan 29 by terryb |
The EFL wouldn't have to settle with the club & could just wait for the next relegation, no matter how many years later that was. We would also be judged having previous convictions in place!
I'm not sure what this stragergy would be as only Palace, Leicester, Leeds & Forest have been promoted since we were in 2011 & not been relegated. Four out of 33 & they've all been mighty close! |
Forest????!!! | | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 23:03 - Jan 30 with 1204 views | connell10 |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 21:50 - Jan 30 by baz_qpr |
Also on this point they were carrying ridiculous overheads from the Prem so even if we cancelled every contract for who we had the costs of doing so would have taken us well over the limit, they did the only thing they could do at the time which was to throw everything at it to go straight back up again |
We have been a extremely badly run club in the past! We are reaping that now. As Brentford and Fulham disappear over the hill , we are hamstrung by the ridiculous way our club was run a few years back. So I put the blame squarely on our board. I'd say that Luton are ahead of us now, a club that had a 30 point deduction placed on them. We spunked 2 lots of premiership riches! So depressing. |  |
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 23:38 - Jan 30 with 1143 views | NewBee |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 20:02 - Jan 29 by terryb |
The EFL wouldn't have to settle with the club & could just wait for the next relegation, no matter how many years later that was. We would also be judged having previous convictions in place!
I'm not sure what this stragergy would be as only Palace, Leicester, Leeds & Forest have been promoted since we were in 2011 & not been relegated. Four out of 33 & they've all been mighty close! |
Re your second para, don't forget little ol' Brentford.
OK, it's only been one and a half seasons to date, but I'm (very) cautiously hopeful that we'll survive for this one, at least.
Anyhow, in similar circumstances* as QPR, Bees had no chance of being BOTH competitive in the Championship AND in compliance with FFP, without also making consistent profits on our transfer dealings.
* - I think I'm right in saying that our total revenue (excluding transfers) in our last non-Covid season in the Championship was £15m - a fraction of what several clubs were getting in parachute payments each season for three seasons. And even then the owner was having to put in the maximum he was allowed under FFP. [Post edited 30 Jan 2023 23:41]
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 23:56 - Jan 30 with 1104 views | distortR |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 22:37 - Jan 30 by daveB |
That might be called fraud |
Ok, then the owners put their mothers names instead.
That would be Freud. | | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 02:35 - Jan 31 with 1057 views | SydneyRs |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 23:38 - Jan 30 by NewBee |
Re your second para, don't forget little ol' Brentford.
OK, it's only been one and a half seasons to date, but I'm (very) cautiously hopeful that we'll survive for this one, at least.
Anyhow, in similar circumstances* as QPR, Bees had no chance of being BOTH competitive in the Championship AND in compliance with FFP, without also making consistent profits on our transfer dealings.
* - I think I'm right in saying that our total revenue (excluding transfers) in our last non-Covid season in the Championship was £15m - a fraction of what several clubs were getting in parachute payments each season for three seasons. And even then the owner was having to put in the maximum he was allowed under FFP. [Post edited 30 Jan 2023 23:41]
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Ultimately, like Bournemouth and others before them, I think it will be hard for Brentford to stay up long term. The buy low, sell high strategy was very well done but not really suited to being (and surviving in) the prem. A few seasons maybe, but the small clubs always succumb eventually.
Chelsea, curently in mid table (tee hee) desperately throwing very large amounts of money everywhere demonstrates what has to be contended with. | | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 08:29 - Jan 31 with 922 views | Esox_Lucius |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 15:49 - Jan 29 by francisbowles |
FFP Financial Fair Play is now renamed Profit and Sustainability. As others have said over any rolling three season period a Championship club is allowed to lose £39 million on first team operating revenue and costs.
We have low revenue and high operating costs. We apparently lose money every time we play a match from the London costs of security and policing in a stadium that's design and layout is not fit for todays purpose. We have reduced our player salary budget many times but are still struggling to meet the maximum loss figure.
Hence, there is little if any money for transfer fees, loan arrangements etc. |
P & S is a subset of FFP, not a replacement for.
For those wishing to acquaint themselves with what is actually contained in FFP please follow this link.
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/efl-regulations/appe
I also posted a thread about the new Football Sustainability Index which the government will be using to tackle the issues regarding clubs finances in the future but although it has 254 views there hasn't been a single comment upon it which I find strange given the vehemence shown by some of the posters towards the club.
[Post edited 31 Jan 2023 10:40]
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| The grass is always greener. |
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 09:50 - Jan 31 with 841 views | terryb |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 22:42 - Jan 30 by hantssi |
Forest????!!! |
Yes, I know.
They've not been relegated yet though! Perhaps I should not have included them, but I thought by doing so it would make it even clearer that relegation is likely to follow at some point.
Signing Shelvey and playing him rather than O'Brien might make it this season! | | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 09:53 - Jan 31 with 835 views | terryb |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 23:38 - Jan 30 by NewBee |
Re your second para, don't forget little ol' Brentford.
OK, it's only been one and a half seasons to date, but I'm (very) cautiously hopeful that we'll survive for this one, at least.
Anyhow, in similar circumstances* as QPR, Bees had no chance of being BOTH competitive in the Championship AND in compliance with FFP, without also making consistent profits on our transfer dealings.
* - I think I'm right in saying that our total revenue (excluding transfers) in our last non-Covid season in the Championship was £15m - a fraction of what several clubs were getting in parachute payments each season for three seasons. And even then the owner was having to put in the maximum he was allowed under FFP. [Post edited 30 Jan 2023 23:41]
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My apologies, it was forgetfullness & nothing more sinister!
That moves it up to five clubs. | | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 10:28 - Jan 31 with 773 views | francisbowles |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 08:29 - Jan 31 by Esox_Lucius |
P & S is a subset of FFP, not a replacement for.
For those wishing to acquaint themselves with what is actually contained in FFP please follow this link.
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/efl-regulations/appe
I also posted a thread about the new Football Sustainability Index which the government will be using to tackle the issues regarding clubs finances in the future but although it has 254 views there hasn't been a single comment upon it which I find strange given the vehemence shown by some of the posters towards the club.
[Post edited 31 Jan 2023 10:40]
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Thanks Essox. First time I've heard that but a quick glance at the link indicates you are correct. | | | |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 10:40 - Jan 31 with 734 views | PunteR |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 20:32 - Jan 30 by SimonD |
You do know that we fought for years to get our £42 million fine reduced to £17 million (plus £3 million costs) and that this is nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with our current battle to remain under the rolling 3-year £39 million figure, don't you? |
£42 Mill was it!?
Of course my post was a very broad tongue in cheek analysis of FFP and QPR.
I know you are the man for the figures and FFP rules so no argument from me there but do you honestly think the way the owners conducted themselves in the past has no bearing on how we are run now financially?
Surely we would have more money in the pot and those loss figure's would be different? | |
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 10:41 - Jan 31 with 727 views | Esox_Lucius |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 10:40 - Jan 31 by PunteR |
£42 Mill was it!?
Of course my post was a very broad tongue in cheek analysis of FFP and QPR.
I know you are the man for the figures and FFP rules so no argument from me there but do you honestly think the way the owners conducted themselves in the past has no bearing on how we are run now financially?
Surely we would have more money in the pot and those loss figure's would be different? |
The owners have changed since that happened, only TF is still on the board. | |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| FFP - Break it down for me on 10:44 - Jan 31 with 728 views | KeithW |
| FFP - Break it down for me on 22:37 - Jan 30 by daveB |
That might be called fraud |
Franky a ridiculous idea. It would be like using another company you own (say, I dont know, a middle esatern airline perhaps) to "sponsor"the stadium and rig the books to show a fake income WAY in excess of any other known sponsorship.
Such a thing could never happen...............Could it???? | | | |
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