| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:23 - Jul 8 with 1949 views | Tonto |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:03 - Jul 8 by SheffieldHoop |
So where are all of you on polling day? It makes no sense to argue you're the majority when your side loses every time there's an election.
Brexit is a result of Bair's immigration policy. So are the general election results of the previous 15 years. So were Farage and Ukip, whose presence created the need for a referendum in the first place. And then Corbyn to an extent. It's all the reaction to Blair opening up the country to immigration in the millions and disenfranchising much of the local population. Perhaps this disenfranchisement didn't affect you - But it did a lot of people, and was way beyond their control.
And so now you've got what you've got. It's all a reaction from the Blair/New Labour years and it's been a long time coming. You can't tell people that only 15,000 would come over from Eastern Europe and then write off people's concerns when 915,000 rock up. At least when Boris lies, its about stuff the public has to really try to care about. Blair's lies ruined lives across the world.
I'll keep voting for whoever I think is most likely to keep Brexit going - I've never thought we would actually leave and got to admit I didn't think it would go as far as it has - I thought we'd have gone for further referendums until they got the result they wanted - And I still do in the long term. People say it's a disaster but I've never had the amount of opportunity I've got at the moment, there's suddenly a lot of work about, which IMO is not a bad thing. Maybe some of our own people can learn to do so some of these jobs before they head to Uni and disappear completely up their own arse. And when they (You know, those shadowy Elites) do eventually overturn it, we'll always have that beautiful day in 2016, where the majority of the working class told the majority of the elite to fck right off. |
not denying the result of the referendum, but the way in which the result of the referendum is often referred to - as you did in your post, is "17.4M of us voted to leave" - as its a big number and, therefore justifies everything. and on its own, it is a big number. but so is 16.1M. just not quite as big as the 17.4M.
I dont have an issue with people saying we voted for Brexit - under the rules of the referendum we did. but context is oh so missing from just using "17.4M". |  |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:32 - Jul 8 with 1890 views | connell10 |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:03 - Jul 8 by SheffieldHoop |
So where are all of you on polling day? It makes no sense to argue you're the majority when your side loses every time there's an election.
Brexit is a result of Bair's immigration policy. So are the general election results of the previous 15 years. So were Farage and Ukip, whose presence created the need for a referendum in the first place. And then Corbyn to an extent. It's all the reaction to Blair opening up the country to immigration in the millions and disenfranchising much of the local population. Perhaps this disenfranchisement didn't affect you - But it did a lot of people, and was way beyond their control.
And so now you've got what you've got. It's all a reaction from the Blair/New Labour years and it's been a long time coming. You can't tell people that only 15,000 would come over from Eastern Europe and then write off people's concerns when 915,000 rock up. At least when Boris lies, its about stuff the public has to really try to care about. Blair's lies ruined lives across the world.
I'll keep voting for whoever I think is most likely to keep Brexit going - I've never thought we would actually leave and got to admit I didn't think it would go as far as it has - I thought we'd have gone for further referendums until they got the result they wanted - And I still do in the long term. People say it's a disaster but I've never had the amount of opportunity I've got at the moment, there's suddenly a lot of work about, which IMO is not a bad thing. Maybe some of our own people can learn to do so some of these jobs before they head to Uni and disappear completely up their own arse. And when they (You know, those shadowy Elites) do eventually overturn it, we'll always have that beautiful day in 2016, where the majority of the working class told the majority of the elite to fck right off. |
As a working class person myself , I found the amount of working class people voting for Boris a utter disgrace!!! But the birds are coming home to roost now!! As if Boris or his ilk would ever care about the working class of this country! Shame on you all!! |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:39 - Jul 8 with 1839 views | SydneyRs |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:23 - Jul 8 by Tonto |
not denying the result of the referendum, but the way in which the result of the referendum is often referred to - as you did in your post, is "17.4M of us voted to leave" - as its a big number and, therefore justifies everything. and on its own, it is a big number. but so is 16.1M. just not quite as big as the 17.4M.
I dont have an issue with people saying we voted for Brexit - under the rules of the referendum we did. but context is oh so missing from just using "17.4M". |
Tbf its usually cut and pasted with little in the way of analysis. |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:39 - Jul 8 with 1840 views | wood_hoop |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:32 - Jul 8 by connell10 |
As a working class person myself , I found the amount of working class people voting for Boris a utter disgrace!!! But the birds are coming home to roost now!! As if Boris or his ilk would ever care about the working class of this country! Shame on you all!! |
I wonder if Murdoch will now select Starmer as the the next best thing to sliced bread now he is telling everyone Brexit is Brexit.
This just gets funnier by the day as Johnson has been well and trually fcuked.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62095955 |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:45 - Jul 8 with 1817 views | SydneyRs |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 11:56 - Jul 8 by Snipper |
My mum and dad both came over from Ireland in the late 1940s/early 1950s. They met over here and had 4 kids.
Dad died in 2012, and I know he would’ve voted to remain in the referendum. Mum did indeed vote to remain.
We grew up in W10, which was a highly populated Irish area, along with West Indians.
I honestly loved my childhood. We were poor, but we made of it what we did.
My mum and dad were given nothing back then. They had to work for everything they got, apart from a housing trust flat and child allowance. It was the same for all the Irish and West Indian families back then. You had to work hard for what you got.
What has annoyed some older immigrants is that some ‘newer’ immigrants haven’t had to work for what they’ve got.
There’s a sense of entitlement that they should get everything once they’re over here.
A few years ago, a friend of mine was working for Hammersmith & Fulham council furnishing properties for asylum seekers. A lot of the stuff was second hand, but he said the abuse he received from most of them that the stuff wasn’t good enough really annoyed him.
He was a child of Irish immigrants who were given nothing.
This is the sort of thing that annoys the older immigrants. They were very grateful for being here, and worked hard to make a fist of it. |
My parents were early 60s Irish immigrants. They experienced all the racist jokes, no blacks, Irish, dogs etc, TV personalities making a career out of it. They got on with things and built a good life for themselves by working hard.
They detest the Tories, brexit, Johnson etc. In recent years it's all been built on racism and they haven't forgotten what it was like to be on the receiving end. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 13:48]
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:46 - Jul 8 with 1809 views | Sonofpugwash |
Well if it's Jeremy Hunt then expect the single market and Xmas lockdowns.
Mordaunt's latest book has a foreword by Our Favourite Billionaire Philanthropist who coincidentally flew into town at the height of the resignations.
Enjoy your summer comrades. |  |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:02 - Jul 8 with 1729 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:23 - Jul 8 by Tonto |
not denying the result of the referendum, but the way in which the result of the referendum is often referred to - as you did in your post, is "17.4M of us voted to leave" - as its a big number and, therefore justifies everything. and on its own, it is a big number. but so is 16.1M. just not quite as big as the 17.4M.
I dont have an issue with people saying we voted for Brexit - under the rules of the referendum we did. but context is oh so missing from just using "17.4M". |
That's how elections work. I know the remain-focused government of the day set up the referendum so that they would get the result they wanted, but even they never had the foresight to insert the "If leave wins they have to win by at least 5 million votes" clause
They had the backing of the elites, political and cultural, 80% of Cameron's cabinet backed remain, multiple letters signed by multiple hundreds of celebrities. Anyone who came out as a leaver was generally abused in public discourse, James Dyson for example.....Anyone on the remain side was celebrated. Even Corbyn did his whole "Lets Remain and fight for better" schtick - Convincing nobody. I do also think that it was timed fairly well for remain, the majority would arguably have been much larger if they'd called it in 2008.
The message as to what was expected of us plebs was loud and clear. As it was for the AV referendum a few years prior. Except this time, the will was too strong, too many people too fcked off by years of lies and neglect.....And while the media can do all they want to try and present Brexiteer politicians/values as unelectable/immoral, most people don't take any notice, we know they are lying so it's easy to ignore it. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:08 - Jul 8 with 1717 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:32 - Jul 8 by connell10 |
As a working class person myself , I found the amount of working class people voting for Boris a utter disgrace!!! But the birds are coming home to roost now!! As if Boris or his ilk would ever care about the working class of this country! Shame on you all!! |
Maybe have a look into what drives those people to vote for Boris, telling people they're a disgrace and should feel ashamed of themselves while not actually looking in to what drives them is precisely why you keep losing. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:14 - Jul 8 with 1699 views | connell10 |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:08 - Jul 8 by SheffieldHoop |
Maybe have a look into what drives those people to vote for Boris, telling people they're a disgrace and should feel ashamed of themselves while not actually looking in to what drives them is precisely why you keep losing. |
Keep fiddling mate as the country burns . | |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:20 - Jul 8 with 1672 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:14 - Jul 8 by connell10 |
Keep fiddling mate as the country burns . |
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| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:25 - Jul 8 with 1659 views | stowmarketrange |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:39 - Jul 8 by wood_hoop |
I wonder if Murdoch will now select Starmer as the the next best thing to sliced bread now he is telling everyone Brexit is Brexit.
This just gets funnier by the day as Johnson has been well and trually fcuked.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62095955 |
I just watched today’s politics live on bbc2 and one of the guests was the deputy political editor of the sun.Was the main political editor too busy drawing hitler moustaches on pictures of Starmer?
Both of them have just been promoted from the Beano political team,and they consider it an upward career move. |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:38 - Jul 8 with 1614 views | LimehouseR |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:08 - Jul 8 by SheffieldHoop |
Maybe have a look into what drives those people to vote for Boris, telling people they're a disgrace and should feel ashamed of themselves while not actually looking in to what drives them is precisely why you keep losing. |
From my experience of speaking with certain people...
You have a large proportion of disillusioned traditional working class who have looked for a reason for their current circumstances and have found blame and directed their anger in those who are different and who are not doing as badly as they are (immigration, foreigners, the BLM movement, etc.). Certain folds of the rotten media reinforce and encourage this view and thus you get life long labour voters turning to the Tories or worse...
Before I get a backlash. I am not saying this accounts for everyone but it is a significant number.
Maybe after all this people who have voted elsewhere will reconsider next time round as it seems to me that things have got far worse in a short space of time. Maybe people will realise that the groups mentioned above largely enrich our society and culture and aren't to blame for this mess. I can tell you who is but most of you don't need me to...
I am not saying Labour have all the answers but they are surely a much better hope for the majority of this country and for its future stability. I cannot believe people's ability to brush off Johnson's litany of lies and scandals not to mention a significant number of his cabinet and MPs but each to their own opinions etc. |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson (n/t) on 14:46 - Jul 8 with 1564 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:38 - Jul 8 by LimehouseR |
From my experience of speaking with certain people...
You have a large proportion of disillusioned traditional working class who have looked for a reason for their current circumstances and have found blame and directed their anger in those who are different and who are not doing as badly as they are (immigration, foreigners, the BLM movement, etc.). Certain folds of the rotten media reinforce and encourage this view and thus you get life long labour voters turning to the Tories or worse...
Before I get a backlash. I am not saying this accounts for everyone but it is a significant number.
Maybe after all this people who have voted elsewhere will reconsider next time round as it seems to me that things have got far worse in a short space of time. Maybe people will realise that the groups mentioned above largely enrich our society and culture and aren't to blame for this mess. I can tell you who is but most of you don't need me to...
I am not saying Labour have all the answers but they are surely a much better hope for the majority of this country and for its future stability. I cannot believe people's ability to brush off Johnson's litany of lies and scandals not to mention a significant number of his cabinet and MPs but each to their own opinions etc. |
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| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson (n/t) on 14:46 - Jul 8 with 1564 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:38 - Jul 8 by LimehouseR |
From my experience of speaking with certain people...
You have a large proportion of disillusioned traditional working class who have looked for a reason for their current circumstances and have found blame and directed their anger in those who are different and who are not doing as badly as they are (immigration, foreigners, the BLM movement, etc.). Certain folds of the rotten media reinforce and encourage this view and thus you get life long labour voters turning to the Tories or worse...
Before I get a backlash. I am not saying this accounts for everyone but it is a significant number.
Maybe after all this people who have voted elsewhere will reconsider next time round as it seems to me that things have got far worse in a short space of time. Maybe people will realise that the groups mentioned above largely enrich our society and culture and aren't to blame for this mess. I can tell you who is but most of you don't need me to...
I am not saying Labour have all the answers but they are surely a much better hope for the majority of this country and for its future stability. I cannot believe people's ability to brush off Johnson's litany of lies and scandals not to mention a significant number of his cabinet and MPs but each to their own opinions etc. |
I disagree - this time 2 years ago we were in the middle of a global pandemic with no vaccine available - The idea things have got worse since then can only possibly be to do with the media gaslighting you.
Also if Johnson being dishonest is such an issue - What about Kier? Campaigns to put Corbyn in No.10, then threw him out the party over racism. Originally very anti-Brexit, suddenly expects us to believe he's all for it. Spent weeks going in on Boris over the party gate bollocks while evidently not entirely innocent himself. He's every bit as dishonest as any of them. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 14:54]
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| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:54 - Jul 8 with 1537 views | LythamR |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:38 - Jul 8 by LimehouseR |
From my experience of speaking with certain people...
You have a large proportion of disillusioned traditional working class who have looked for a reason for their current circumstances and have found blame and directed their anger in those who are different and who are not doing as badly as they are (immigration, foreigners, the BLM movement, etc.). Certain folds of the rotten media reinforce and encourage this view and thus you get life long labour voters turning to the Tories or worse...
Before I get a backlash. I am not saying this accounts for everyone but it is a significant number.
Maybe after all this people who have voted elsewhere will reconsider next time round as it seems to me that things have got far worse in a short space of time. Maybe people will realise that the groups mentioned above largely enrich our society and culture and aren't to blame for this mess. I can tell you who is but most of you don't need me to...
I am not saying Labour have all the answers but they are surely a much better hope for the majority of this country and for its future stability. I cannot believe people's ability to brush off Johnson's litany of lies and scandals not to mention a significant number of his cabinet and MPs but each to their own opinions etc. |
I tend to agree with a lot of that however
"directed their anger"
should be
"had their anger directed"
Divide and conquer works almost every time |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:59 - Jul 8 with 1514 views | LimehouseR |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:54 - Jul 8 by LythamR |
I tend to agree with a lot of that however
"directed their anger"
should be
"had their anger directed"
Divide and conquer works almost every time |
Agree with your correction there. | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 15:01 - Jul 8 with 1491 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:54 - Jul 8 by LythamR |
I tend to agree with a lot of that however
"directed their anger"
should be
"had their anger directed"
Divide and conquer works almost every time |
Left-wing people really do think everyone else is stupid and beneath them, don't they? | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson (n/t) on 15:03 - Jul 8 with 1488 views | SydneyRs |
| Bye bye bye Johnson (n/t) on 14:46 - Jul 8 by SheffieldHoop |
I disagree - this time 2 years ago we were in the middle of a global pandemic with no vaccine available - The idea things have got worse since then can only possibly be to do with the media gaslighting you.
Also if Johnson being dishonest is such an issue - What about Kier? Campaigns to put Corbyn in No.10, then threw him out the party over racism. Originally very anti-Brexit, suddenly expects us to believe he's all for it. Spent weeks going in on Boris over the party gate bollocks while evidently not entirely innocent himself. He's every bit as dishonest as any of them. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 14:54]
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Are you talking about Boris or Starmer when you refer to originally being anti brexit?
Starmer has no choice now, it's irreversible for quite some time despite obviously taking the country backwards. | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 15:05 - Jul 8 with 1483 views | ngbqpr |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:11 - Jul 8 by paulparker |
Remind me what party started an illegal war and lied about weapons of mass destruction
Maybe the same party who has blood on its hands over Dr Kelly |
Whataboutery PP.
Two wrongs don't make a right. |  |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 15:07 - Jul 8 with 1476 views | Juzzie |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:39 - Jul 8 by wood_hoop |
I wonder if Murdoch will now select Starmer as the the next best thing to sliced bread now he is telling everyone Brexit is Brexit.
This just gets funnier by the day as Johnson has been well and trually fcuked.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62095955 |
Johnson hasn't "been well and truly fcuked", he's totally fcuked himself. This is entirely of his own doing and that's the difference.
Did everyone read that series of tweets that was posted earlier.... mind blowing and yet people, ordinary folk, still think he's some kind of marvel who has been misunderstood and turned against. Unbelievable, Jeff. |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 15:07 - Jul 8 with 1473 views | SydneyRs |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 15:01 - Jul 8 by SheffieldHoop |
Left-wing people really do think everyone else is stupid and beneath them, don't they? |
As do most Tories | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 15:12 - Jul 8 with 1447 views | SydneyRs |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:11 - Jul 8 by paulparker |
Remind me what party started an illegal war and lied about weapons of mass destruction
Maybe the same party who has blood on its hands over Dr Kelly |
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Iraq banned the weapons inspectors, didn't really help the situation. They also had stated ambitions to develop WMDs.
The US led the thing and several others supported including Australia and it's Tory government of the time. I don't recall any protests from the UK Tory opposition at the time either? They would also have gone in and you know it. | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 15:18 - Jul 8 with 1434 views | TheChef |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 14:54 - Jul 8 by LythamR |
I tend to agree with a lot of that however
"directed their anger"
should be
"had their anger directed"
Divide and conquer works almost every time |
Unfortunately I'm not sure where divide and conquer doesn't work.
Just keep the average Joe and Josephine arguing amongst themselves, while the 1% laugh all the way to the bank. |  |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 15:20 - Jul 8 with 1426 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:23 - Jul 8 by Tonto |
not denying the result of the referendum, but the way in which the result of the referendum is often referred to - as you did in your post, is "17.4M of us voted to leave" - as its a big number and, therefore justifies everything. and on its own, it is a big number. but so is 16.1M. just not quite as big as the 17.4M.
I dont have an issue with people saying we voted for Brexit - under the rules of the referendum we did. but context is oh so missing from just using "17.4M". |
On a point of political precision, the referendum was not a 'vote' per se, it was an advisory plebiscite, which it was the government's obligation to debate and legislate on. Technically, though, they could have ignored it.
The fact that both Brexit campaigns - though especially the Leave one - were so egregiously freighted with misinformation and insults to the electorate's intelligence means that, in my view, the outcome should have been declared null and void, but of course that's all part of the wider picture of the penumbra of British democracy and the degenerate currency of political debate in the UK. Politics is now little more than low farce. Anyone with a functioning brain wouldn't lower themselves to vote right now. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 15:21]
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| Bye bye bye Johnson (n/t) on 15:20 - Jul 8 with 2150 views | LimehouseR |
| Bye bye bye Johnson (n/t) on 14:46 - Jul 8 by SheffieldHoop |
I disagree - this time 2 years ago we were in the middle of a global pandemic with no vaccine available - The idea things have got worse since then can only possibly be to do with the media gaslighting you.
Also if Johnson being dishonest is such an issue - What about Kier? Campaigns to put Corbyn in No.10, then threw him out the party over racism. Originally very anti-Brexit, suddenly expects us to believe he's all for it. Spent weeks going in on Boris over the party gate bollocks while evidently not entirely innocent himself. He's every bit as dishonest as any of them. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 14:54]
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The Scientists, the NHS and the countless volunteers delivered the vaccines and it was largely orchestrated by them and not the Tory government who would tell you otherwise. They were too busy making their friends richer with sub standard PPE and taking the credit for it all.
My reference wasn't to the pandemic specifically anyway it was to the financial state we now find ourselves in.
You cannot for a second convince a rational person that Kier is in the same stratosphere of dishonesty, sleaze and corruption as Johnson is! 126 fines issued to Downing Street MPs and officials... 0 issued to Starmer. The daily mail went on about that curry gate incident for WEEKS trying to convince people he was just as bad and have failed miserably in their witch hunt. Johnson partied along with his cronies while most people abided by the rules and made countless painful sacrifices. You cannot trivialise it considering his position, responsibility, the times we were all going through and the fact they made the lockdown rules themselves and then broke them all. Name me another British Prime minister who has had a criminal charge enforced on them whilst in office?!
Changing your mind over Brexit is not dishonest. I don't agree with him but it is a case of we are in the throws of it now and people voted for it so let us get it done but in a better way than it is currently being managed.
Threw him out for racism? Doesn't sound dishonest to me. It would be dishonest if he hadn't thrown him out? Which is what Johnson did with Pincher. He instead promoted him.
Johnson has famously written racist comments and made xenophobic statements by the way which are easy to find on the internet, I won't repeat them here.
Anyway I am aware this is one of those conversations whereby neither of us will agree on much I imagine so I will leave it at this. Plus NorthernR doesn't need more wasted hours worrying about the content of this message board when there is sunshine and beer to enjoy this weekend!
All the best Sheffield. I hope we can at least agree that supporting QPR is both a joy and a chore etc! | | | |
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