| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:00 - May 1 with 814 views | STID2017 |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 11:54 - May 1 by Brynmill_Jack |
To be honest I’m umming and arrring about going next week. They’ll probably be expecting a lap of honour |
In fairness Brynmill is a bit closer to Landore than Nottingham ?  |  |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:05 - May 1 with 797 views | nantywatcher |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 11:54 - May 1 by Brynmill_Jack |
To be honest I’m umming and arrring about going next week. They’ll probably be expecting a lap of honour |
No doubt Prince Charming will be at the front of the queue clapping and acknowledging all those fans who think he's done a great job this season. |  | | |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:22 - May 1 with 770 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 08:16 - May 1 by onehunglow |
With respect,obviously,could you adduce some evidence as to why you are a Big advocate of the coach and what substance there is for your mindset.
Are we in a better place than the first games when the coach suffered because of no pre season .Compare what we were at the start with what we are now.
Then ,compare with the last two seasons before the coach came to our club to make us a "proper club". |
I can see what he trying to do. There’s been glimpses this year of his vision and others games where it’s been awful.
He only had one window, in January which is notoriously difficult to get decent players. He’s trying to implement a system which is the ‘Swansea Way’. He now has time to get the players he wants.
IF we can keep our main players, get a decent defence and make an impact next year, it’ll be great. If not, and we keep making the same mistakes. You’ll be right. |  | | |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:26 - May 1 with 745 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:22 - May 1 by Sirjohnalot |
I can see what he trying to do. There’s been glimpses this year of his vision and others games where it’s been awful.
He only had one window, in January which is notoriously difficult to get decent players. He’s trying to implement a system which is the ‘Swansea Way’. He now has time to get the players he wants.
IF we can keep our main players, get a decent defence and make an impact next year, it’ll be great. If not, and we keep making the same mistakes. You’ll be right. |
I don’t understand this “only one window” thing.
Didn’t he sign the likes of Ntcham, Pato, Williams, Downes, Laird etc when he arrived? Plus added the likes of Christie and Fisher in Jan.
Almost all players are now his own, brought in this season. |  |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:42 - May 1 with 730 views | Lorax |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:22 - May 1 by Sirjohnalot |
I can see what he trying to do. There’s been glimpses this year of his vision and others games where it’s been awful.
He only had one window, in January which is notoriously difficult to get decent players. He’s trying to implement a system which is the ‘Swansea Way’. He now has time to get the players he wants.
IF we can keep our main players, get a decent defence and make an impact next year, it’ll be great. If not, and we keep making the same mistakes. You’ll be right. |
That right there will be the problem, John. We won't be able to keep our main players, at least 2 will be sold, Piroe and Downes probably, maybe Oba as well. Then we have to start from scratch again. We'll be financially viable of course but we won't have taken steps forward and it'll be more of the same.
The only way we can move forward is to pledge to keep our best players for at least one more season, add to the team and then see. We've already been told 1 or 2 will be sold.
Don't expect miracles next season, expect more of the same, in my opinion. That's partly based on the number of people I know who haven't renewed season tickets, ourselves included. The revenue may well drop which will mean more sales. | | | |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:45 - May 1 with 725 views | magicdaps10 |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:26 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I don’t understand this “only one window” thing.
Didn’t he sign the likes of Ntcham, Pato, Williams, Downes, Laird etc when he arrived? Plus added the likes of Christie and Fisher in Jan.
Almost all players are now his own, brought in this season. |
Since Feb 1st, the close of the last window, we have played 19 games and obtained 29 points.
From the above it is an average of 1.52 points, since Feb its play off pushing form. You have asked for progression and clearly we are progressing.
We have had some bad results, yesterday being one but I think there is certainly an overeaction and clear loss on posters the reality coupled with the lack of seeing the progression that is being made.
If we are going to oint out the bad then the good needs to be highlighted also, if all we are going to do is sling mud then it will eventually stick!
The consistency is the key in all this. |  |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:47 - May 1 with 719 views | cadleigh |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 09:56 - May 1 by krunchykarrot |
Yes definately in my opinion, some of the football we have played has been exceptional the trick is consistency and finding the players to perform. |
We played sublime football at times under Potter and under Cooper. If you put together all the minutes of football we have played this season where we were both entertaining AND effective, I wonder how they would stack up againt the previous three seasons? How much of Martin's halo looks shinier because we are viewing it through the lens of the defeat at Brentford and teh relatively short poor run at the end of Cooper's second season? | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:54 - May 1 with 711 views | vetchonian |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:47 - May 1 by cadleigh |
We played sublime football at times under Potter and under Cooper. If you put together all the minutes of football we have played this season where we were both entertaining AND effective, I wonder how they would stack up againt the previous three seasons? How much of Martin's halo looks shinier because we are viewing it through the lens of the defeat at Brentford and teh relatively short poor run at the end of Cooper's second season? |
things also seem much better because we can attend I'm sure if we had watched some of this seasons servings at home especially some of the borefests ar the start of the season more would gave moabes | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 13:00 - May 1 with 706 views | cadleigh |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:22 - May 1 by Sirjohnalot |
I can see what he trying to do. There’s been glimpses this year of his vision and others games where it’s been awful.
He only had one window, in January which is notoriously difficult to get decent players. He’s trying to implement a system which is the ‘Swansea Way’. He now has time to get the players he wants.
IF we can keep our main players, get a decent defence and make an impact next year, it’ll be great. If not, and we keep making the same mistakes. You’ll be right. |
It's clear what he's trying to do. It was put very eloquently by a QPR fan after he watched one of our games earlier this season:
"So your new manager is just a sh!t Guardiola then"
We don't have the players to pull it off, and I don't think we have the manager to do it either. So we are destined to repeat our mistakes over and over again, while the manager throws player after player under the bus as each in turn fails to deliver the impossible. Smith and Bennett - both inexplicably undroppable no matter how bad they played for most of this season - are just the latest to be scapegoated. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 13:08 - May 1 with 695 views | vetchonian |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 13:00 - May 1 by cadleigh |
It's clear what he's trying to do. It was put very eloquently by a QPR fan after he watched one of our games earlier this season:
"So your new manager is just a sh!t Guardiola then"
We don't have the players to pull it off, and I don't think we have the manager to do it either. So we are destined to repeat our mistakes over and over again, while the manager throws player after player under the bus as each in turn fails to deliver the impossible. Smith and Bennett - both inexplicably undroppable no matter how bad they played for most of this season - are just the latest to be scapegoated. |
Bennett? | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 13:20 - May 1 with 668 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 12:45 - May 1 by magicdaps10 |
Since Feb 1st, the close of the last window, we have played 19 games and obtained 29 points.
From the above it is an average of 1.52 points, since Feb its play off pushing form. You have asked for progression and clearly we are progressing.
We have had some bad results, yesterday being one but I think there is certainly an overeaction and clear loss on posters the reality coupled with the lack of seeing the progression that is being made.
If we are going to oint out the bad then the good needs to be highlighted also, if all we are going to do is sling mud then it will eventually stick!
The consistency is the key in all this. |
But you are cherry picking that date. What about if we start from 5 games ago? Or wouldn’t that suit?
What we can do is look at where we are after 45 games, which is 15th. It’s not good enough and continues to be not good enough. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 13:45 - May 1 with 638 views | BryanSwan |
How many on here only became real Swans fans when we were rising through the leagues and into the Prem? Because the absolute entitlement on here is astounding.
And the love in some of you have with Cooper is sickening. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 13:52 - May 1 with 622 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 13:45 - May 1 by BryanSwan |
How many on here only became real Swans fans when we were rising through the leagues and into the Prem? Because the absolute entitlement on here is astounding.
And the love in some of you have with Cooper is sickening. |
1995/6 for me.
No entitlement at all. Only recognition that we are performing well below our capabilities.
The ironic thing is, those happy with 15th seemed annoyed that we were 4th and 6th in recent seasons. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:01 - May 1 with 623 views | magicdaps10 |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 13:20 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
But you are cherry picking that date. What about if we start from 5 games ago? Or wouldn’t that suit?
What we can do is look at where we are after 45 games, which is 15th. It’s not good enough and continues to be not good enough. |
I just ask for consistency, you broke a progression comparison into games being split 50/50 in regards to there being progress or not..... Could you not do that again to see if we progressed 2nd half of the season to first?
I am not about picking what suits, I just want to be realistic and understanding in where we are at, what's wrong and what's going well... I don't want too just highlight the bad unless of course that is all we are seeing which clearly it is not.
One thing that needs to be sorted is the defence and conceding of goals especially away from home, I would say our defence and conceding at home is not a cause for concern but away from home is the massive issue that needs addressing. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:11 - May 1 with 598 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:01 - May 1 by magicdaps10 |
I just ask for consistency, you broke a progression comparison into games being split 50/50 in regards to there being progress or not..... Could you not do that again to see if we progressed 2nd half of the season to first?
I am not about picking what suits, I just want to be realistic and understanding in where we are at, what's wrong and what's going well... I don't want too just highlight the bad unless of course that is all we are seeing which clearly it is not.
One thing that needs to be sorted is the defence and conceding of goals especially away from home, I would say our defence and conceding at home is not a cause for concern but away from home is the massive issue that needs addressing. |
Progression and sufficient progression are two completely separate things.
If I was running 100m sprint and I wanted to go sub 11 seconds within 2 years. Going from 16.9 seconds to 16.4 seconds in the first year of training really isn’t sufficient progress.
Due to rescheduled matches and rearranged games we had a freak anomaly recently where we had a run of 7 games that were incredibly kind. Despite being 16th, 6 of the 7 opponents were below us.
19th
20th
23rd
8th
21st
24th
22nd
This has coincided with a favourable run of results. Since then we have slipped back to our regular selves and not seen a win in a fair while. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:15 - May 1 with 602 views | RichardO |
Sometimes people who cannot see both side of an argument, there is debate and then there seems to be a need to be right.
We got relegated from the Premiership, Potter's Swans team didn't improve year on year because he left to manage in a higher division, Cooper's Swans team scored less goals year on years as points rose but didn't get promoted Brendan did.
Martin has had a car crash of a season( is that what he had at MK Dons), has he learnt anything remains to be seen next year if he is still here.
We need to sort out our defence, we need new defenders in the team, Martin needs to use some new tactics as he has already if a little late in the season. | | | |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:19 - May 1 with 581 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:15 - May 1 by RichardO |
Sometimes people who cannot see both side of an argument, there is debate and then there seems to be a need to be right.
We got relegated from the Premiership, Potter's Swans team didn't improve year on year because he left to manage in a higher division, Cooper's Swans team scored less goals year on years as points rose but didn't get promoted Brendan did.
Martin has had a car crash of a season( is that what he had at MK Dons), has he learnt anything remains to be seen next year if he is still here.
We need to sort out our defence, we need new defenders in the team, Martin needs to use some new tactics as he has already if a little late in the season. |
Why does learning have to be measured and acted upon in blocks of years/seasons though?
Learning is something that can be done week to week. You don’t learn something and implement it a year later. That’s lunacy.
What he has needed to change has been clear to the blindest of people all season, if he hasn’t learned by league game 45… what makes you think he might by league game 47?
These things should have been changed months and months ago. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:20 - May 1 with 586 views | cadleigh |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 13:08 - May 1 by vetchonian |
Bennett? |
Yes. In the first half of the season Bennett was selected for every match he was able to play in, regardless of any howlers he made. Now he is not only being let go, but publicly humiliated by being described as 'not all in'. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:24 - May 1 with 578 views | magicdaps10 |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:15 - May 1 by RichardO |
Sometimes people who cannot see both side of an argument, there is debate and then there seems to be a need to be right.
We got relegated from the Premiership, Potter's Swans team didn't improve year on year because he left to manage in a higher division, Cooper's Swans team scored less goals year on years as points rose but didn't get promoted Brendan did.
Martin has had a car crash of a season( is that what he had at MK Dons), has he learnt anything remains to be seen next year if he is still here.
We need to sort out our defence, we need new defenders in the team, Martin needs to use some new tactics as he has already if a little late in the season. |
Ultimately that is correct Richard.
We have progressed as the season has gone on but Martin now has issues he needs to address going into his 2nd season, we now have a basis after his first season to be judged on for his 2nd season.
He knows what we need and he knows the issues from his first season here. He might during the summer have other issues that need sorting(players leaving) but make no bones about it....next season he will be judged on what he done this season and rightly so.
As the season comes to a close, I am relatively content given after the play off loss to Brentford that I thought we could have easily been involved in a relegation scrap. I have seen improvements as the season has gone on and a clear issue that needs sorting and one that given the amount of clean sheets we have kept is something I am confident can be addressed. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:29 - May 1 with 562 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:24 - May 1 by magicdaps10 |
Ultimately that is correct Richard.
We have progressed as the season has gone on but Martin now has issues he needs to address going into his 2nd season, we now have a basis after his first season to be judged on for his 2nd season.
He knows what we need and he knows the issues from his first season here. He might during the summer have other issues that need sorting(players leaving) but make no bones about it....next season he will be judged on what he done this season and rightly so.
As the season comes to a close, I am relatively content given after the play off loss to Brentford that I thought we could have easily been involved in a relegation scrap. I have seen improvements as the season has gone on and a clear issue that needs sorting and one that given the amount of clean sheets we have kept is something I am confident can be addressed. |
There is absolutely no way a team with our calibre of players should be anywhere near the bottom of this league. Losing 2-0 to Brentford, with 10 men, a team comfortably going to stay up in the Premier League should have been no measure of relegation the following season.
Adding £5m worth of players to an already talented side, plus elite loans and free transfers such as Pato and Ntcham - we should have been pushing right up this league.
We haven’t been able to as we have been hamstrung by a way of playing that doesn’t work and has never worked. Hence why Russell has never once finished in the top half of a league in his managerial history.
The last team he left they so happened to instantly improve, to unrecognisable levels. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:37 - May 1 with 557 views | RichardO |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:19 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Why does learning have to be measured and acted upon in blocks of years/seasons though?
Learning is something that can be done week to week. You don’t learn something and implement it a year later. That’s lunacy.
What he has needed to change has been clear to the blindest of people all season, if he hasn’t learned by league game 45… what makes you think he might by league game 47?
These things should have been changed months and months ago. |
Sorry I thought you stated you couldn't cherry pick games to see how a team is doing doesn't that include the manager as well.
Given the quality of our defence and our manager we are where we are this season, things will need to change not just tactics | | | |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:42 - May 1 with 547 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:37 - May 1 by RichardO |
Sorry I thought you stated you couldn't cherry pick games to see how a team is doing doesn't that include the manager as well.
Given the quality of our defence and our manager we are where we are this season, things will need to change not just tactics |
Which games am I cherry picking? I didn’t refer to any game, I’m asking why do you only judge learning in blocks of seasons?
For example if you realise that by not going long when there is a heavy press - why do you have to wait until next season to change it? You should judge learning on what is being changed and how quickly these things are being rectified.
If the same mistakes are being made from game 4 at game 44 - it’s fair to say the manager isn’t learning. You don’t need to wait until the next season to note that.
He’s chosen this defence. Laird, Christie, Ogbeta, Burns, Williams were all brought in for him. Yet he’s shunned out and out CB’s like Bennet and Cabango all season in favour of smaller full backs like Naughton, Manning and Latibaudiere - we have been taken advantage of all season as a result.
It’s no surprise, the fact it’s still happening and he’s still complaining about it is staggering. This was by design not by coincidence. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:44 - May 1 with 549 views | magicdaps10 |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:29 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
There is absolutely no way a team with our calibre of players should be anywhere near the bottom of this league. Losing 2-0 to Brentford, with 10 men, a team comfortably going to stay up in the Premier League should have been no measure of relegation the following season.
Adding £5m worth of players to an already talented side, plus elite loans and free transfers such as Pato and Ntcham - we should have been pushing right up this league.
We haven’t been able to as we have been hamstrung by a way of playing that doesn’t work and has never worked. Hence why Russell has never once finished in the top half of a league in his managerial history.
The last team he left they so happened to instantly improve, to unrecognisable levels. |
You were not adding 5M to an already talented side! The talented side side had lost or were losing Woodman, Guehi, Roberts,Hourihane, Ayew and Lowe...Over 50% of that team gone.
That is why I wasn't expecting anything special especially a play off place. Martin came into a mess, could have easily have become a total horror show but to be so far off the bottom 3 and in fact closer to a play off spot is something that should be mildly nodded at.
If we added the new additions without those players leaving then I would say that you are correct but losing those players was clearly going to set us back massively.
Martin has made mistakes and he has things to sort out but ultimately he has done OK all things considered and most certainly made progression as the season has gone on. | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:48 - May 1 with 536 views | cadleigh |
To be fair to Martin, I think it's undeniable that we have progressed over the course of the season in our attacking ability. Piroe and Obafemi are class acts who were not getting anything like the service they needed or deserved in the early part of the season, and now they are on fire. Was that early season sterility down to the way Martin was telling his team to play (be 'brave', get into the box before shooting, don't give up possession (ie take risks) unless you are certain of a result)? Is our current goal-scoring success down to Martin learning lessons and taking some of the brakes off and letting players express themselves? If so, credit to him for learning from his errors and let's hope we can keep one or both of our strikers for next season.
But over the same period our defence has become a shambles. Since 1 February we have conceded three or more goals on six occasions out of 19 - nearly one in three matches.
I recall Martin in an early interview saying his priority was to get one thing sorted and then move on to the other. Pretty sure it was defence first then attack. Can anyone confirm? | |
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| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:51 - May 1 with 531 views | magicdaps10 |
| Nottingham Forest v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 21/22 on 14:42 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Which games am I cherry picking? I didn’t refer to any game, I’m asking why do you only judge learning in blocks of seasons?
For example if you realise that by not going long when there is a heavy press - why do you have to wait until next season to change it? You should judge learning on what is being changed and how quickly these things are being rectified.
If the same mistakes are being made from game 4 at game 44 - it’s fair to say the manager isn’t learning. You don’t need to wait until the next season to note that.
He’s chosen this defence. Laird, Christie, Ogbeta, Burns, Williams were all brought in for him. Yet he’s shunned out and out CB’s like Bennet and Cabango all season in favour of smaller full backs like Naughton, Manning and Latibaudiere - we have been taken advantage of all season as a result.
It’s no surprise, the fact it’s still happening and he’s still complaining about it is staggering. This was by design not by coincidence. |
Sorry to back to Cooper and his time here but the 2nd half of last season was worse than the first....we were in decline and Cooper was then making mistakes from that first half of the season then?
Its all about consistency but that's been lost on some to suit an agenda, sorry to go over it again P but will leave that for you to think about and will resist from keeping on to you as it gets neither of us anywhere nor the site. | |
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