| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men 17:50 - Jun 29 with 46856 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Truly awful. |  |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:45 - Jul 1 with 1323 views | Drizzy |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:43 - Jul 1 by Highjack |
That would suggest it’s a relatively successful strategy then. |
I only said it was better than randomly searching 100 people, which you'd expect from the largest police force in the country.
Did you read the Fullfact link or see any of the statistics posted about knife crime? |  |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:46 - Jul 1 with 1320 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:01 - Jul 1 by Drizzy |
No it doesn't. This is from fullfact which I linked earlier.
"Data suggests that stop and search is not particularly effective at reducing crime by deterring potential criminals."
Here's the link again: https://fullfact.org/crime/does-stop-search-work/
There's a whole section dedicated to the evidence on stop & search as a deterrent. It's not particularly effective. Did you read that bit?
Fullfact's analysis is about as impartial and evidence-based as you can find.
I'm asking you once again, to describe the correlation between the two graphs. Describing a correlation doesn't require you to know what's being measured, it's dimensionless. It doesn't imply the two things are related. It's just testing whether you can look at a graph objectively. Not sure why it's so difficult. [Post edited 1 Jul 2020 13:04]
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How do you expect stop & search to have any affect on knife crime when those caught carrying knives do not get taken off the street for a substantial length of time.
There is no deterrent to carrying a knife if all you get is a slap on the wrist.
The liberal judges/magistrates guided by the Government policy of not wanting people in prison because they are so full has everything to do with why knife crime is rife.
If you don't think "harmless guys caught carrying drugs" are not fueling crime you are delusional. |  | | |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:48 - Jul 1 with 1314 views | Jango |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:01 - Jul 1 by Drizzy |
No it doesn't. This is from fullfact which I linked earlier.
"Data suggests that stop and search is not particularly effective at reducing crime by deterring potential criminals."
Here's the link again: https://fullfact.org/crime/does-stop-search-work/
There's a whole section dedicated to the evidence on stop & search as a deterrent. It's not particularly effective. Did you read that bit?
Fullfact's analysis is about as impartial and evidence-based as you can find.
I'm asking you once again, to describe the correlation between the two graphs. Describing a correlation doesn't require you to know what's being measured, it's dimensionless. It doesn't imply the two things are related. It's just testing whether you can look at a graph objectively. Not sure why it's so difficult. [Post edited 1 Jul 2020 13:04]
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Yes I did read it.
However the paper does note that “it does not necessarily follow that stop and search activity does not reduce crime.
“It is possible that there are localised crime-reducing effects of stop and search activity that are masked when analysing data on such a large geographic area.”
That’s an important factor. You need to stop only looking at numbers that suit your argument. I think it’s common sense that if there’s a bigger risk of being stop and searched and sent to prison For carrying a knife, then fewer people would take the risk.
The correlation is that when the stop and searches were reduced year on year the number fluctuated on the 2nd before eventually rising year on year. Which is what I tried to explain in my last post. A change in attitude over time coming from knowing their chances of being searched are far less.
How about you discuss the correlation between your first graph which shows stop and search has reduced by more than 80% since 2011, and the article I put it that shows knifecrime has increased 80% since March 2014. Let’s not look at numbers regarding whether black or white people are being searched and just look at the crimes. It there in black and white. | | | |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:52 - Jul 1 with 1300 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 09:13 - Jul 1 by Drizzy |
It's really not about shame. It's about recognising the roots of a cancer that's still prevalent in society. I'd be more than happy to judge people on their character rather their race, however, a group of white elites have spent the last 300 years trying to do anything but that. In fact, only 52 years ago a black man was assassinated for saying the exact thing your saying. From philosophers to financiers to prime ministers, the dehumanising of black people has permeated every layer of society, through to today. It's quite clear when you see an American police officer casually murder a black person and think nothing of it.
You can bury your head in the sand and pretend it's not a problem because you haven't had experience of it. That's fine it's just not a reflection of the discrimination black people face on a daily basis. It's why so many prominent black people have spoken out in solidarity with BLM to say it's still relevant. You can't ignore these experiences no matter how much you true.
The third paragraph is precisely the problem. Not only does it take huge liberties with the truth and sense, it places the blame for the spike in race hate crimes at the feet of people who wanted to remain an inclusive society. It's genuinely bonkers, Jang.
Whenever we have these debates, you dedicate so much time trying and failing to prove my evidence is wrong. Like when you misread statistics about hate crimes committed by white people. Like when you couldn't believe Brexit led to a spike in hate crime so I quoted the Met Police report and you pivoted to blaming Remainers. It's so sad, especially if you have black family members, watching the amount of effort you put in failing to discredit arguments that racism is still rife. If only you spent a fraction of that time educating yourself instead. |
" It's quite clear when you see an American police officer casually murder a black person and think nothing of it."
No comment on the white man murdered in 2017 in almost the same way after he called the police for himself. In his case the police wereactually laughing and & joking while they did it.
I don't remember any mass protests, riots or anything else for him. | | | |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:52 - Jul 1 with 1300 views | Drizzy |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:46 - Jul 1 by A_Fans_Dad |
How do you expect stop & search to have any affect on knife crime when those caught carrying knives do not get taken off the street for a substantial length of time.
There is no deterrent to carrying a knife if all you get is a slap on the wrist.
The liberal judges/magistrates guided by the Government policy of not wanting people in prison because they are so full has everything to do with why knife crime is rife.
If you don't think "harmless guys caught carrying drugs" are not fueling crime you are delusional. |
The loons are out in force.
Knife laws are pretty harsh as it is. You'll get up to 4 years if you get caught carrying one twice.
We've got the highest per capita prison population in the whole of Western Europe. Do we have less crime as a result of it? | |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:59 - Jul 1 with 1289 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:52 - Jul 1 by Drizzy |
The loons are out in force.
Knife laws are pretty harsh as it is. You'll get up to 4 years if you get caught carrying one twice.
We've got the highest per capita prison population in the whole of Western Europe. Do we have less crime as a result of it? |
You could get up to 4 years says it all, how many actually do get 4 years?
So you beleive that removing criminals from the streets does not reduce crime.
I give you New York in the 90s
https://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html
It like Chicago is now descending back in to a hell hole. | | | |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:01 - Jul 1 with 1287 views | Drizzy |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:48 - Jul 1 by Jango |
Yes I did read it.
However the paper does note that “it does not necessarily follow that stop and search activity does not reduce crime.
“It is possible that there are localised crime-reducing effects of stop and search activity that are masked when analysing data on such a large geographic area.”
That’s an important factor. You need to stop only looking at numbers that suit your argument. I think it’s common sense that if there’s a bigger risk of being stop and searched and sent to prison For carrying a knife, then fewer people would take the risk.
The correlation is that when the stop and searches were reduced year on year the number fluctuated on the 2nd before eventually rising year on year. Which is what I tried to explain in my last post. A change in attitude over time coming from knowing their chances of being searched are far less.
How about you discuss the correlation between your first graph which shows stop and search has reduced by more than 80% since 2011, and the article I put it that shows knifecrime has increased 80% since March 2014. Let’s not look at numbers regarding whether black or white people are being searched and just look at the crimes. It there in black and white. |
There's an entire section dedicated to debunking the idea that stop and search deters crime. Why is it that every time your argument isn't supported by evidence, you shift to another one?
Did you read the sentence properly? "It does not necessarily follow that stop and search activity does not reduce crime" That's hardly a ringing endorsement of its success, it's being objective and recognising there may be some benefit from more nuanced approaches. Broadly, targeting black people at 10x the rate as others hasn't been that effective.
You can't even describe the correlation between two graphs without introducing your own assumptions. Your assumptions are once again based on the deterrent effect which fullfact said there was little evidence for.
Let's try another one, what do you think is the correlation between these two things?
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:01 - Jul 1 with 1286 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:46 - Jul 1 by A_Fans_Dad |
How do you expect stop & search to have any affect on knife crime when those caught carrying knives do not get taken off the street for a substantial length of time.
There is no deterrent to carrying a knife if all you get is a slap on the wrist.
The liberal judges/magistrates guided by the Government policy of not wanting people in prison because they are so full has everything to do with why knife crime is rife.
If you don't think "harmless guys caught carrying drugs" are not fueling crime you are delusional. |
I tell you who is fuelling the drug crime in this country.
Well off middle classes having a Saturday night delivery of coke to their dinner parties. You see it all the time across well heeled parts of London.
Yet the police don’t target those people. I’ve been in a party (when loads younger) where lots of people were smoking pot. The police knocked at the door as they were looking for someone who’d been seen running through gardens in the area.
As they were leaving, they sniffed the air and said ‘you may want to open the windows a bit to get rid of that’ and laughed. If that had been a party of young black people rather than young white middle class people, they wouldn’t have taken the same view.
The issue with arresting people for carrying drugs for personal use with stop and search is that the white kids with pot, or a few Es or a bit of coke don’t get arrested (as they aren’t so frequently subject to stop and search). It’s not that it’s not illegal, it’s that one group is ending up with a criminal record (which destroys prospects) and the other group is ending up laughing about their earlier coke habit while standing as leader of the Conservative party. [Post edited 1 Jul 2020 14:03]
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:09 - Jul 1 with 1263 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:01 - Jul 1 by londonlisa2001 |
I tell you who is fuelling the drug crime in this country.
Well off middle classes having a Saturday night delivery of coke to their dinner parties. You see it all the time across well heeled parts of London.
Yet the police don’t target those people. I’ve been in a party (when loads younger) where lots of people were smoking pot. The police knocked at the door as they were looking for someone who’d been seen running through gardens in the area.
As they were leaving, they sniffed the air and said ‘you may want to open the windows a bit to get rid of that’ and laughed. If that had been a party of young black people rather than young white middle class people, they wouldn’t have taken the same view.
The issue with arresting people for carrying drugs for personal use with stop and search is that the white kids with pot, or a few Es or a bit of coke don’t get arrested (as they aren’t so frequently subject to stop and search). It’s not that it’s not illegal, it’s that one group is ending up with a criminal record (which destroys prospects) and the other group is ending up laughing about their earlier coke habit while standing as leader of the Conservative party. [Post edited 1 Jul 2020 14:03]
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I'd change what parties you go to. |  | | |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:10 - Jul 1 with 1261 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:52 - Jul 1 by Drizzy |
The loons are out in force.
Knife laws are pretty harsh as it is. You'll get up to 4 years if you get caught carrying one twice.
We've got the highest per capita prison population in the whole of Western Europe. Do we have less crime as a result of it? |
"We've got the highest per capita prison population in the whole of Western Europe. Do we have less crime as a result of it? "
I notice that you restrict it to "western Europe", when eastern europe is included we get a different picture.
Compare the 2 EU data sets here.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Crime_statist
and here
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Prison_statis
Notice who have the highest prison rates AND the lowest crime rates, do you think it is a coincidence? | | | |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:10 - Jul 1 with 1260 views | Jango |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:01 - Jul 1 by Drizzy |
There's an entire section dedicated to debunking the idea that stop and search deters crime. Why is it that every time your argument isn't supported by evidence, you shift to another one?
Did you read the sentence properly? "It does not necessarily follow that stop and search activity does not reduce crime" That's hardly a ringing endorsement of its success, it's being objective and recognising there may be some benefit from more nuanced approaches. Broadly, targeting black people at 10x the rate as others hasn't been that effective.
You can't even describe the correlation between two graphs without introducing your own assumptions. Your assumptions are once again based on the deterrent effect which fullfact said there was little evidence for.
Let's try another one, what do you think is the correlation between these two things?
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No I’ve finished playing your pointless games, I answered the question with how and why I believed the curve has gone that way.
Now, I asked you to discuss the correlation between your graph and the link I put up. Don’t ignore it. | | | |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:10 - Jul 1 with 1260 views | Highjack |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 13:52 - Jul 1 by Drizzy |
The loons are out in force.
Knife laws are pretty harsh as it is. You'll get up to 4 years if you get caught carrying one twice.
We've got the highest per capita prison population in the whole of Western Europe. Do we have less crime as a result of it? |
Yes we do. Crime would be a lot higher if those people weren’t behind bars. |  |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:17 - Jul 1 with 1240 views | Highjack |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:09 - Jul 1 by Treforys_Jack |
I'd change what parties you go to. |
They sound pretty wild to me. | |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:20 - Jul 1 with 1237 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:09 - Jul 1 by Treforys_Jack |
I'd change what parties you go to. |
I don’t believe you’ve never been to a party in your twenties where people weren’t smoking pot or taking some sort of drugs.
Not unless you’re over 70, | | | |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:36 - Jul 1 with 1215 views | Drizzy |
I use Western Europe because it's more a meaningful comparison, in terms of wealth, judicial systems and police resources.
We don't have the lowest crime rates. You've just linked a graph to robberies. Portugal, Germany, Italy and Ireland all have fewer robberies per capita than us.
We've got an average to high crime rate compared with similar countries but we've got the largest prison population. | |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:38 - Jul 1 with 1209 views | Drizzy |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:10 - Jul 1 by Highjack |
Yes we do. Crime would be a lot higher if those people weren’t behind bars. |
Crime would be a lot higher in every country if they all released their prisoners. Quite a trite statement.
Donated any money to the anti-slavery charities yet? | |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:49 - Jul 1 with 1192 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:36 - Jul 1 by Drizzy |
I use Western Europe because it's more a meaningful comparison, in terms of wealth, judicial systems and police resources.
We don't have the lowest crime rates. You've just linked a graph to robberies. Portugal, Germany, Italy and Ireland all have fewer robberies per capita than us.
We've got an average to high crime rate compared with similar countries but we've got the largest prison population. |
I suggest that you look at the other graphs, like the homocide one.
France & Germany both above us.
However we lead Europe in assault, sexual violence & rape, which probably has a lot to do with our drunken, binging culture.
Here is the split
https://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/submitViewTableAction.do
Note that eastern Europe are not high, because they probably still have USSR type prisons and sentences.
But you did not refute the New York reduction, because you can't. | | | |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 15:01 - Jul 1 with 1181 views | Drizzy |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:45 - Jul 1 by Jango |
So gradually overtime as stop and search has decreased, knife crime has started creeping up year on year. Which is exactly what I said. We’ve already established earlier in this thread that we are talking small numbers with 5% stop and searches resulting in finding a knife. You’re more concerned with who gets stopped than actually finding knives though. [Post edited 1 Jul 2020 14:53]
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Does that graph show stop and search gradually decreased? It looks like a fairly steep drop.
Knife crime has only "crept up" since 2014 back to 2010 levels. During the peak years of stop & search, knife crime was higher than it was in the years it was phased out. It didn't stop criminals in the act, it didn't deter potential criminals.
We're not going to have a constructive debate if you can't interpret a pair of graphs. Then again if you had a basic knowledge of statistics and data then you probably wouldn't hold half the opinions you do. | |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 15:04 - Jul 1 with 1175 views | Jango |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 15:01 - Jul 1 by Drizzy |
Does that graph show stop and search gradually decreased? It looks like a fairly steep drop.
Knife crime has only "crept up" since 2014 back to 2010 levels. During the peak years of stop & search, knife crime was higher than it was in the years it was phased out. It didn't stop criminals in the act, it didn't deter potential criminals.
We're not going to have a constructive debate if you can't interpret a pair of graphs. Then again if you had a basic knowledge of statistics and data then you probably wouldn't hold half the opinions you do. |
The 2nd graph you’ve shown is pre conditioned stop and search. There was lot more tha. 13175 stop and searches. | | | |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 15:11 - Jul 1 with 1173 views | Drizzy |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:49 - Jul 1 by A_Fans_Dad |
I suggest that you look at the other graphs, like the homocide one.
France & Germany both above us.
However we lead Europe in assault, sexual violence & rape, which probably has a lot to do with our drunken, binging culture.
Here is the split
https://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/submitViewTableAction.do
Note that eastern Europe are not high, because they probably still have USSR type prisons and sentences.
But you did not refute the New York reduction, because you can't. |
"However we lead Europe in assault, sexual violence & rape, which probably has a lot to do with our drunken, binging culture"
Ridiculous assumption.
"Note that eastern Europe are not high, because they probably still have USSR type prisons and sentences."
Again, an assumption.
The New York link, which you hilariously think supports your argument, is saying that robberies went down when more people arrested for robbery.
"The police measure that most consistently reduces crime is the arrest rate of those involved in crime, the study finds."
Equally pertinent would be to say stabbings would be reduced by arresting more people who committed stabbings. Carrying a knife isn't the same as committing a stabbing.
Not to mention the New York police grew 35% in the 1990s compared to London which has lost 20,000 officers over the last few years.
I've reached the limit of my patience in debating some who can't even understand their own evidence. | |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 15:15 - Jul 1 with 1167 views | Highjack |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 14:38 - Jul 1 by Drizzy |
Crime would be a lot higher in every country if they all released their prisoners. Quite a trite statement.
Donated any money to the anti-slavery charities yet? |
So we agree that having a high prison population leads us to having less crime. | |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 15:18 - Jul 1 with 1165 views | Drizzy |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 15:04 - Jul 1 by Jango |
The 2nd graph you’ve shown is pre conditioned stop and search. There was lot more tha. 13175 stop and searches. |
"S.60 is different to other stop and search powers in that it requires the authority of a senior officer, and officers carrying out searches using this power are not required to have reasonable grounds to suspect that the person or vehicle is carrying weapons or dangerous objects."
Taken from the Met Police website. It's the most relevant one to this discussion as they don't need to have reasonable grounds to force you to remove your clothes like they do with other searches.
Why do you spend so much time desperately trying to prove it's an effective strategy for anything, despite all the evidence to the contrary? Because you don't like lefties? | |
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| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 15:20 - Jul 1 with 1160 views | Drizzy |
| Notorious Racist Priyamvada Gopal Has Urges to Kneecap White Men on 15:15 - Jul 1 by Highjack |
So we agree that having a high prison population leads us to having less crime. |
Nope, you've misunderstood. I'm interested to know why our prison population the highest of all comparable countries in Europe yet our violent crime isn't the lowest, in fact, it's above average.
Donated any money to the anti-slavery charities yet? | |
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