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Pets at Home store 11:30 - Jul 7 with 12553 viewsLord_Bony

Warra pelava.

I only wanted to buy a shrimp for the bottom of my fish tank to help keep it clean. I was in a rush with people waiting in the car outside. It took 20 minutes for them to get the shrimp and I had to wait for someone to come with a questionnaire.it cost £3.

I was then grilled for several minutes with questions such as...

How many fish are in the tank? What fish are they? How long have you had them? What is the water capacity of the tank? Will you be taking the shrimp home immediateley?Etc. Name,address,phone number,email feck me it went on and on...

I told the assistant I'm buying a shrimp not adopting a dog for life ffs.

After all that the shrimp seems to have disappeared in the tank.

Is all this political correctness really necessary? I mean we eat shrimps by the bucket load.

I've a good mind to write to my M.P.

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Pets at Home store on 22:42 - Jul 9 with 1462 viewsDrizzy

It's clear that pigs are intelligent species but to compare their cognition to that of an average three-year-old child is ludicrous. That's ignoring outliers such as those with obvious mental defects, as this thread shows.

Also just a reminder to anyone reading not to take the findings of a YouTube video as gospel and to actually conduct your own research in a debate because you may find flaws in your argument.

We were unable to corroborate the findings by Broom et al. (2009). In the mirror test performed following his protocol as closely as possible, i.e. in group 1, only two of the mirror exposed pigs crossed line 1 and found the hidden food reward. We take this observation as evidence that the majority of the pigs in the present experiment did not understand what the mirror image represents, and that they did not use the mirror to locate the food."

Given our results and the points of discussion mentioned above, we conclude that effective use of information provided by a mirror may not be an ability shared by all pigs of this age and/or pig lines."

https://www.appliedanimalbehaviour.com/article/S0168-1591(14)00079-3/fulltext
[Post edited 9 Jul 2018 22:43]

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Pets at Home store on 23:10 - Jul 9 with 1445 viewsHighjack

Pets at Home store on 01:25 - Jul 9 by Humpty

Just out of interest what are the creatures that are more intelligent than pigs?


Apart from 3 year old children, most primates, canines, elephants, wolves, whales, crows, some pigeons,

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Pets at Home store on 01:44 - Jul 10 with 1406 viewsE20Jack

Pets at Home store on 22:42 - Jul 9 by Drizzy

It's clear that pigs are intelligent species but to compare their cognition to that of an average three-year-old child is ludicrous. That's ignoring outliers such as those with obvious mental defects, as this thread shows.

Also just a reminder to anyone reading not to take the findings of a YouTube video as gospel and to actually conduct your own research in a debate because you may find flaws in your argument.

We were unable to corroborate the findings by Broom et al. (2009). In the mirror test performed following his protocol as closely as possible, i.e. in group 1, only two of the mirror exposed pigs crossed line 1 and found the hidden food reward. We take this observation as evidence that the majority of the pigs in the present experiment did not understand what the mirror image represents, and that they did not use the mirror to locate the food."

Given our results and the points of discussion mentioned above, we conclude that effective use of information provided by a mirror may not be an ability shared by all pigs of this age and/or pig lines."

https://www.appliedanimalbehaviour.com/article/S0168-1591(14)00079-3/fulltext
[Post edited 9 Jul 2018 22:43]


Oh look out, Keiron has gotten all excited again.

1) I didn’t use a YouTube video, someone else posted that, pay attention (and pay me the £100 you owe me too).

2) My argument is not the rank of pigs on an intellectual scale, that was a side issue based on the the work done by Professor Broom in a variety of papers, work I absolutely support. My argument (not really an argument just complete common sense) is that sentient, emotional and intelligent beings being needlessly and violently slaughtered in their billions is abhorrebtly cruel and senseless. I guess you focussed on the other bit to give you a bit of traction? Rank can always be debated.

But anyway, comparing cognition across species is always very tricky concept as each species differs in their range of abilities and also so do the tests (if you had read the thread instead of seeing my name and getting all excited then you would know that) hence why others cannot conclusively agree (not that they disagree, important point).

However, you can personally disagree of course, but unless you show me your findings (which you can’t) then I will have to take your view as yet another boring Keiron excitement post.

Not that I think that it any way matters however. As a vegan I don’t have the bizarre notion as others do that intelligence (or perceived intelligence) gives one being a right to its life and another deserving to have it violently taken away, completely needlessly too as I taught you last time we discussed this topic and you needed up having to donate to vegan activists. Remember?

[Post edited 10 Jul 2018 2:16]

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Pets at Home store on 01:51 - Jul 10 with 1403 viewsE20Jack

Not surprisingly HJ, science disagrees with you again.

Whenever these topics come up, there is something in you that makes you compelled to try and defend the staggeringly indefensible animal cruelty culture, that means it is resonating with you and that is encouraging.

On this occasion I think it has driven you to the wrong google page and have stumbled upon emotional intelligence with that list (many of them not “more” emotionally intelligent though, I think you used artistic licence there).

BUT just like excitable Kieron, for the sake of this thread feel free to put them as number 8 or 9 if you need to.

My point remains, violently destroying sentient and intelligent beings entirely needlessly is unbelievably cruel. The fact it is done in such staggering number even more so. The fact it is accepted, defended and excused is a sad mark of the desensatised nature of human kind.
[Post edited 10 Jul 2018 2:07]

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Pets at Home store on 05:42 - Jul 10 with 1370 viewsThursday

Life is only sustained by the extinction of other life. Where people decide to draw that line, if it is culturally acceptable, is up to them.

This is quite possibly why the sale of a shrimp can be a most difficult internal struggle for a Pets At Home associate. Affirmative action through a vegetarian workforce. They should have compromised with pescetarians.
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Pets at Home store on 07:04 - Jul 10 with 1344 viewsE20Jack

The irony of that of course being that the destruction of other life is also destroying our own. I say “our” in the loosest possible terms of course.

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Pets at Home store on 10:00 - Jul 10 with 1308 viewsTheFranchise

I'm going to start eating vegans
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Pets at Home store on 10:28 - Jul 10 with 1294 viewsDaggyjack

I'm glad that Pets at Home and their staff care about their animals / fish as much as they do rather than sell these pets to people who have no clue on how to look after them.

They should be applauded
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Pets at Home store on 10:38 - Jul 10 with 1289 viewsTheFranchise

Pets at Home store on 10:28 - Jul 10 by Daggyjack

I'm glad that Pets at Home and their staff care about their animals / fish as much as they do rather than sell these pets to people who have no clue on how to look after them.

They should be applauded


it's really nothing to do with welfare, it's all about profit.
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Pets at Home store on 11:58 - Jul 10 with 1273 viewsDrizzy

Two mini-essays of waffle later and still no indication of any critical understanding of a pig's cognitive capabilities. Clearly, someone that is incapable of reading or even just finding an academic paper to support their argument.

I wonder how a pig would test against a 30-year-old basement dweller?

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Pets at Home store on 12:19 - Jul 10 with 1268 viewsE20Jack

Pets at Home store on 11:58 - Jul 10 by Drizzy

Two mini-essays of waffle later and still no indication of any critical understanding of a pig's cognitive capabilities. Clearly, someone that is incapable of reading or even just finding an academic paper to support their argument.

I wonder how a pig would test against a 30-year-old basement dweller?


if in doubt moan about the length and detail of the response and carry on crying. Classic crying Drizz. You have no further understanding of the animal in questions cognitive abilities no, but that’s because you are incredibly thick and don’t read.

Aside from your jealous wibbling... Have you sent the Res my cash?

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Pets at Home store on 12:23 - Jul 10 with 1265 viewsDrizzy

Pets at Home store on 12:19 - Jul 10 by E20Jack

if in doubt moan about the length and detail of the response and carry on crying. Classic crying Drizz. You have no further understanding of the animal in questions cognitive abilities no, but that’s because you are incredibly thick and don’t read.

Aside from your jealous wibbling... Have you sent the Res my cash?


You've shown a spectacular misunderstanding of the content of the debate but also the ability to conduct a debate. That's because you have no worthwhile qualifications in anything and have been proven to be a liar.

Which country are you going to change your iPhone location to this week?

Poll: PlanetSwans Tw*t of the Year 2018

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Pets at Home store on 12:23 - Jul 10 with 1264 viewsE20Jack

Pets at Home store on 10:28 - Jul 10 by Daggyjack

I'm glad that Pets at Home and their staff care about their animals / fish as much as they do rather than sell these pets to people who have no clue on how to look after them.

They should be applauded


It’s funny how outraged people get when their convenience is disturbed when trying to buy living animals for their own gain. Poor humans, can’t imagine the horror of having to answer some questions.

Poll: 6 point deduction and sellouts lose all their cash?

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Pets at Home store on 12:24 - Jul 10 with 1259 viewsHighjack

Pets at Home store on 01:51 - Jul 10 by E20Jack

Not surprisingly HJ, science disagrees with you again.

Whenever these topics come up, there is something in you that makes you compelled to try and defend the staggeringly indefensible animal cruelty culture, that means it is resonating with you and that is encouraging.

On this occasion I think it has driven you to the wrong google page and have stumbled upon emotional intelligence with that list (many of them not “more” emotionally intelligent though, I think you used artistic licence there).

BUT just like excitable Kieron, for the sake of this thread feel free to put them as number 8 or 9 if you need to.

My point remains, violently destroying sentient and intelligent beings entirely needlessly is unbelievably cruel. The fact it is done in such staggering number even more so. The fact it is accepted, defended and excused is a sad mark of the desensatised nature of human kind.
[Post edited 10 Jul 2018 2:07]


Which animal from my list is less intelligent than pigs then?

Crows for example are smarter than seven year old children whilst pigs are only as smart as a three year old.


http://thescienceexplorer.com/nature/how-smart-are-crows-answer-may-shock-you

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: Should Dippy Drakeford do us all a massive favour and just bog off?

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Pets at Home store on 12:28 - Jul 10 with 1254 viewsLord_Bony

Pets at Home store on 10:28 - Jul 10 by Daggyjack

I'm glad that Pets at Home and their staff care about their animals / fish as much as they do rather than sell these pets to people who have no clue on how to look after them.

They should be applauded


We are talking about buying a 1cm long crustacean here. Do we really need all this form filling and false care about these things...at the end of the day no one gives a shite.

The fishing industry harvests millions of tons of these things every year.

Nothing is said about that.

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Pets at Home store on 12:32 - Jul 10 with 1238 viewsHighjack

Pets at Home store on 12:28 - Jul 10 by Lord_Bony

We are talking about buying a 1cm long crustacean here. Do we really need all this form filling and false care about these things...at the end of the day no one gives a shite.

The fishing industry harvests millions of tons of these things every year.

Nothing is said about that.


1cm long crustaceans are people too

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: Should Dippy Drakeford do us all a massive favour and just bog off?

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Pets at Home store on 12:33 - Jul 10 with 1237 viewsE20Jack

Pets at Home store on 12:24 - Jul 10 by Highjack

Which animal from my list is less intelligent than pigs then?

Crows for example are smarter than seven year old children whilst pigs are only as smart as a three year old.


http://thescienceexplorer.com/nature/how-smart-are-crows-answer-may-shock-you


How are you defining intelligence? Quite a fluid term as your posts now show.

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Pets at Home store on 12:41 - Jul 10 with 1228 viewsHighjack

Pets at Home store on 12:33 - Jul 10 by E20Jack

How are you defining intelligence? Quite a fluid term as your posts now show.


Crows can use tools to shape the world around them in a way that very few species on earth can. That shows high levels of perception, logical thought and creativity.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: Should Dippy Drakeford do us all a massive favour and just bog off?

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Pets at Home store on 12:43 - Jul 10 with 1225 viewsE20Jack

Pets at Home store on 12:28 - Jul 10 by Lord_Bony

We are talking about buying a 1cm long crustacean here. Do we really need all this form filling and false care about these things...at the end of the day no one gives a shite.

The fishing industry harvests millions of tons of these things every year.

Nothing is said about that.


Size is irrelevant though LB surely. You would be utterly tiny to a blue whale, would you be deserving of death if it decides to kill you for no real reason?

I was listening to Jordan B Peterson the other day, a clinical psychologist. He says a lobster for example has a central nervous system similar to humans and a hierarchical system that runs on seratonin just like ours, so much so that human anti depressants actually work on lobsters - yet we boil them alive. Again I use “we” loosely.

You are an irrelevance to probably so much larger things in the cosmos, surely you don’t feel that if something out there is extremely bigger than you then they should kill you?

Poll: 6 point deduction and sellouts lose all their cash?

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Pets at Home store on 12:44 - Jul 10 with 1222 viewsE20Jack

Pets at Home store on 12:41 - Jul 10 by Highjack

Crows can use tools to shape the world around them in a way that very few species on earth can. That shows high levels of perception, logical thought and creativity.


So your definition of intelligence is the ability to use tools?

Some small fish also highly intelligent then?

Now we are getting somewhere.
[Post edited 10 Jul 2018 12:46]

Poll: 6 point deduction and sellouts lose all their cash?

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Pets at Home store on 12:44 - Jul 10 with 1223 viewstreboethjack

Pets at Home store on 10:37 - Jul 8 by Jackfath

Perhaps the Pets at Home workers don't have a choice with the questionnaires and it's the only job they could get?


The most sensible post yet, What many of you fail to realise is that the poor person serving you DOES NOT make these rules, however in order to keep their job they must follow them. So next time you decide to go on a rant at them because you cant buy a goldfish for your tiny bowl in the windowsill with no filter etc try seeing it from their perspective.

Tim gorau Cymru ers 1912

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Pets at Home store on 12:47 - Jul 10 with 1215 viewsHighjack

Pets at Home store on 12:44 - Jul 10 by E20Jack

So your definition of intelligence is the ability to use tools?

Some small fish also highly intelligent then?

Now we are getting somewhere.
[Post edited 10 Jul 2018 12:46]


No but in order to use tools you need skills that are a by product of high levels of perception, logical thought and creativity which are indicators of strong intelligence.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: Should Dippy Drakeford do us all a massive favour and just bog off?

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Pets at Home store on 12:56 - Jul 10 with 1201 viewsE20Jack

Pets at Home store on 12:47 - Jul 10 by Highjack

No but in order to use tools you need skills that are a by product of high levels of perception, logical thought and creativity which are indicators of strong intelligence.


Ok so not what I asked then.

There are tiny fish that fashion and use tools to open shells. I’m glad we are all now realising that there is intelligent beings outside the human race tiny and large, and all deserve to live their lives without humans needlessly and violently destroying them.

Poll: 6 point deduction and sellouts lose all their cash?

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Pets at Home store on 14:33 - Jul 10 with 1178 viewsLord_Bony

Pets at Home store on 12:56 - Jul 10 by E20Jack

Ok so not what I asked then.

There are tiny fish that fashion and use tools to open shells. I’m glad we are all now realising that there is intelligent beings outside the human race tiny and large, and all deserve to live their lives without humans needlessly and violently destroying them.


Yeah but what about all the live pet food available at Pets at Home and numerous websites.

All live creatures being fed to those nasty pets at home.

My heart bleeds for these creatures as they deserve to live too.

Is there no one who can speak out for these poor,defenceless beings.

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Pets at Home store on 14:53 - Jul 10 with 1164 viewsHighjack

Pets at Home store on 12:56 - Jul 10 by E20Jack

Ok so not what I asked then.

There are tiny fish that fashion and use tools to open shells. I’m glad we are all now realising that there is intelligent beings outside the human race tiny and large, and all deserve to live their lives without humans needlessly and violently destroying them.


I have literally no idea why you’re arguing with me when I completely agreed there are lots of animals that show high levels of intelligence. I was merely answering Humpty’s question and you jump down my throat for no reason saying I ignore science when science has shown that all the animals I listed have intelligence comparable to or greater than pigs and three year old children.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: Should Dippy Drakeford do us all a massive favour and just bog off?

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