| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF 21:00 - Mar 22 with 16148 views | Billy_Kershaw |
Wondering if any one has any advice?
I have just received a Penalty Charge Notice from HFBC for entering and stopping in a box junction. It was at the junction of Talgarth Road and Butterwick on the way home from Sunderland recently.
There was a huge traffic jam at the time, next to the Broadway shopping centre. I was already on the roundabout and it was one of those situations where traffic was so heavy, if you didn't enter the junction, you would never move due to traffic joining the roundabout ahead of you. The photos on the website show loads of drivers having to do the same thing.
Has anyone had any experience of challenging this type of decision? It seems harsh, due to the volume of traffic at the time.
Thanks for any advice folks can offer!
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| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 21:11 - Mar 22 with 13850 views | Juzzie |
I cant see any positive outcome. Their flat response would be you cant enter the box unless your exit is clear.
They know full well all the problems, same with the one near Parsons Green, but they’re such a cash cow they’ll never actually look to improve the junction. |  | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 21:15 - Mar 22 with 13844 views | colinallcars |
Same thing happened to me a few hundred yards east at the junction of Talgarth Rd and the road that goes past Barons Court station. I appealed on the grounds that another vehicle shot into the space I was heading for on the other side of the yellow box. They turned me down and it cost me sixty quid. As I remember there was a further appeal I could have taken but I lost heart. Good luck, maybe if you stick to your guns you'll beat 'em. |  | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 21:26 - Mar 22 with 13812 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
I had a dream... I was driving along a busy road when suddenly there was an RTA just ahead of me which meant I had to quickly stop in a box junction and could not exit from which was then blocked... I was stuck
That's how I remember the dream anyway.
Do you have dreams?
go to independent appeal if HF reject [Post edited 22 Mar 2018 21:55]
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| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 21:36 - Mar 22 with 13795 views | colinallcars |
Although both the OP and myself have fallen foul of the dreaded yellow box, I have to admit they do keep junctions clearer than the white KEEP CLEAR signs painted n the road. | | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 21:53 - Mar 22 with 13760 views | Tonto |
Not trying to make a smart Alec response but I appreciate it sounds like it... but the law is clear; do not enter the box unless the exit is clear. The excuse that you would not get anywhere if you didn’t it that everyone else was doing it isn’t going to cut any mustard. The chances of you winning an appeal is virtually zero. Sorry. |  |
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| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 22:13 - Mar 22 with 13713 views | GloryHunter |
It's happened to me, in a similar situation. The lesson I've learned is, have a good look around for cameras before you risk it. |  | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 23:26 - Mar 22 with 13650 views | SydneyRs |
I've had stronger arguments than this for fines (lack of signs etc) and still got nowhere. Its all about revenue raising and little to do with actually making roads safer. They'd be absolutely gutted if everyone started driving perfectly, never speeding etc and they love to cash in on innocent mistakes.
I was back in the UK a couple of years ago and driving a hire car around showing my kids old haunts. Drove though Harrow where it always used to be ok only to discover it had changed into a bus and taxi only area once I got the fine. Wrote to them explaining we were on holiday, I used to live in the area, it was fine then, there was zero danger in me driving through, apologised etc, etc. They weren't having any of it. Ker-ching. Fine only got paid because the hire company automatically pays them and deducts your credit card. Otherwise I would have wish the c***s good luck in collecting it from 12,000 miles away.
Its no better here in Aus either. |  | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 05:11 - Mar 23 with 13564 views | PlanetHonneywood |
If that’s your defence, you’re marginally better off than a team playing the away leg at Barcelona having lost the home leg five-nil!! |  |
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| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 08:53 - Mar 23 with 13422 views | Billy_Kershaw |
Thanks for all your replies. Looking at the video, I stopped briefly but, like all the other cars around me, was clear of the box junction before the lights changed to allow the next turning to join behind us.
I will appeal although judging by this thread, my appeal probably has as much chance as a Lazarus sending off appeal! (see other thread...) | |
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| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 09:35 - Mar 23 with 13387 views | stevec |
Sorry to reiterate, but don't think you stand much of a chance.
Got done approaching Hammersmith Bridge, coming from the Great West Road side, when some utter knt took the lane that goes towards Chiswick and jumped across as I'd set off in a leisurely fashion. Needless to say, he got the space and I was stuck on the box junction.
It was clear enough on the photos but still got fined. Next one that does that will get a kick in the bóllocks. |  | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 09:49 - Mar 23 with 13374 views | GloryHunter |
Also watch out for the 20 zones that are most of residential Greater London now. My sat nav doesn't seem to know about them, even though I keep downloading the updates. On some roads round me there are even 30 signs still up on the poles, but 20 roundels painted on the roads. Mate of mine has been done twice in his own street in Hackney, and the latest was £80 plus 4 points - doing 32 in what has just been changed to a 20 zone. | | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 09:58 - Mar 23 with 13360 views | Northernr |
So pleased I don't drive any more. Absolute clusterfck.
Hired a car for a midweek game up north last season, all the way back down a completely empty M1 in the middle of the night all the "smart motorway" signs were flashing 50 and 60 with cameras catching people daring to do 70 on an empty, dry motorway at night. |  | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 10:13 - Mar 23 with 13332 views | colinallcars |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 09:49 - Mar 23 by GloryHunter |
Also watch out for the 20 zones that are most of residential Greater London now. My sat nav doesn't seem to know about them, even though I keep downloading the updates. On some roads round me there are even 30 signs still up on the poles, but 20 roundels painted on the roads. Mate of mine has been done twice in his own street in Hackney, and the latest was £80 plus 4 points - doing 32 in what has just been changed to a 20 zone. |
I always thought the 20 MPH signs painted on the roads were just advisory. I'll have to watch out now. | | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 10:55 - Mar 23 with 13294 views | Bluce_Ree |
In December I got stung for one of these because I inched into a box junction in the shit town of Morden. Didn't bother challenging it. I think all I did was go on Twitter and call the council c*nts which made me feel better for like a second.
I know drivers are scum often and rules need to be in place but I reckon if they chilled out on this stuff it wouldn't lead to any real problems like deaths or whatever.
It's like parking. I used to work in one of the worst towns in Liverpool. Awful place. Anyway, they're so hardcore with the parking that basically you can't park anywhere apart from like one large gravel car park (for £4 a day). If they let people park on the streets (where there is space), you'd get more shoppers, more people wanting to work in the offices.
Instead all the money is going to some guy who bought a portacabin on a flat, not very well developed bit of land. Council pricks. I hope they die (mainly because my council tax just went up by £60, and the bin collections are going to every three weeks). |  |
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| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 11:26 - Mar 23 with 13259 views | GloryHunter |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 10:13 - Mar 23 by colinallcars |
I always thought the 20 MPH signs painted on the roads were just advisory. I'll have to watch out now. |
Easier said than done - it's very hard to keep a modern car down to 20mph, unless you drive in 2nd gear (and what does that do for your carbon emissions?) - especially when you've got some impatient fcker tailgating you (who presumably hasn't picked up any tickets himself yet). | | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 12:56 - Mar 23 with 13183 views | Tonto |
" If they let people park on the streets (where there is space), you'd get more shoppers, more people wanting to work in the offices."
Actually Bluce that is wrong. But it is a common misconception.
The level of parking available has very little impact on vitality, unless there is no public trasnport or cycle parking. Its more to do with having nice wide pavements (so less space for parking), decnt materials and greenery ((trees, shrubs, grass etc.) that create a nice public realm. Canary Wharf has very little parking for example.
EVERYBODY finishes theit journey on foot - i.e. as a predetrian, no matter what the destination. But in this country (and several others) we have an obsession with providing big wide thoroughfares for cars with one person in each one, and restricting the other uses to smaller parts of the carriageway.
And yes I could provide you with all the evidence, but its numerous linkls to lots of different reports, but by all means google them. | |
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| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 13:05 - Mar 23 with 13170 views | TGRRRSSS |
They changed rules on where you could drop your rubbish all round Bekrshire - fly tipping has sky rocketed.
Councils and intelligence and brains.........  |  | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 13:09 - Mar 23 with 13166 views | Tonto |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 13:05 - Mar 23 by TGRRRSSS |
They changed rules on where you could drop your rubbish all round Bekrshire - fly tipping has sky rocketed.
Councils and intelligence and brains......... |
as someone who works for a Council i take exception to that...
we always take the blame, becuase its easy to balme Councils for everything | |
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| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 13:24 - Mar 23 with 13147 views | Juzzie |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 13:09 - Mar 23 by Tonto |
as someone who works for a Council i take exception to that...
we always take the blame, becuase its easy to balme Councils for everything |
Well, a dozen or so years ago my council (the Freeholder of where I lived) decided, their decision, to move the workman around three different sites meaning the works took 3 months longer to do. Scaffolding costs increased etc. They added the extra costs incurred (a few thousand pounds per Leaseholder) to our bill. We challenged this and they didn't give a fk.
And yes, I do blame them for that. | | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 14:28 - Mar 23 with 13070 views | Northernr |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 13:09 - Mar 23 by Tonto |
as someone who works for a Council i take exception to that...
we always take the blame, becuase its easy to balme Councils for everything |
You do see council policies like that though and just think wtf are you doing?
Barnet Council have started charging you for them to come and pick up an old mattress or fridge - quite a bit too, £45 for a fridge and £57 for a mattress.
Result = all the greenspaces are being peppered with dumped mattresses and fridges. One fridge and two mattresses passed on a 40 minute run this morning.
Now surely it costs Barnet council more to send guys out all the time to fish mattresses and fridges out of rivers, woodland, allotments, dirt tracks etc than it would for them to send one van round the place once every couple of months to pick them up for free?
(Of course it would be nice if people weren't such ignorant, selfish cnts and just took their sht stained old bed to the tip, but that's just a pipe dream)
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 14:29 - Mar 23 with 13068 views | PinnerPaul |
My sister in law got a PCN for the same offence at the Target. | | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 14:39 - Mar 23 with 13046 views | Juzzie |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 14:28 - Mar 23 by Northernr |
You do see council policies like that though and just think wtf are you doing?
Barnet Council have started charging you for them to come and pick up an old mattress or fridge - quite a bit too, £45 for a fridge and £57 for a mattress.
Result = all the greenspaces are being peppered with dumped mattresses and fridges. One fridge and two mattresses passed on a 40 minute run this morning.
Now surely it costs Barnet council more to send guys out all the time to fish mattresses and fridges out of rivers, woodland, allotments, dirt tracks etc than it would for them to send one van round the place once every couple of months to pick them up for free?
(Of course it would be nice if people weren't such ignorant, selfish cnts and just took their sht stained old bed to the tip, but that's just a pipe dream)
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Same in Westminster where my mate lives and same end result.... stuff dumped all over the place which the cost to remove just gets added to everyone's council tax bill.
Why not make it 'free' (cost will still be added to the bill) but at least it's more efficient and less of an eyesore/hazard. But yes, still doesn't excuse all the selfish cnts but that's the world we live in sadly that everyone else has to pay for. | | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 15:27 - Mar 23 with 13005 views | Northernr |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 14:39 - Mar 23 by Juzzie |
Same in Westminster where my mate lives and same end result.... stuff dumped all over the place which the cost to remove just gets added to everyone's council tax bill.
Why not make it 'free' (cost will still be added to the bill) but at least it's more efficient and less of an eyesore/hazard. But yes, still doesn't excuse all the selfish cnts but that's the world we live in sadly that everyone else has to pay for. |
It's the thing I notice the most whenever I come bck from abroad - just how happy us Brits are to live surrounded by our own rubbish. | | | |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 15:40 - Mar 23 with 12984 views | Tonto |
It comes down to budgets though... poeple expect stuff to happen, but dont realise just how much it costs.
these years of "austerity" coupled with the privitisation of so many elements of society (e.g. old peoples homes) have meant costs go up and budgets go down. Every Council is facing real financial problems.
And as those have pointed out a few selfish people go and spoil to for everyone.
but to say that Councils are brainless is ignorant at best, or ironically actually brainless.
(especially as half the repsonses on this thread have called the orginal reson for this post moneygrabbing/just for revenue or something along those lines. you cant have it both ways!) | |
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| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 16:38 - Mar 23 with 12941 views | SimonJames |
| Challenging penalty notice for stopping in a box junction - LBHF on 15:40 - Mar 23 by Tonto |
It comes down to budgets though... poeple expect stuff to happen, but dont realise just how much it costs.
these years of "austerity" coupled with the privitisation of so many elements of society (e.g. old peoples homes) have meant costs go up and budgets go down. Every Council is facing real financial problems.
And as those have pointed out a few selfish people go and spoil to for everyone.
but to say that Councils are brainless is ignorant at best, or ironically actually brainless.
(especially as half the repsonses on this thread have called the orginal reson for this post moneygrabbing/just for revenue or something along those lines. you cant have it both ways!) |
Here in Saffron Walden, we are at the mercy of Uttlesford Disctrict council who are NOT brainless... instead they are GREEDY (e.g. overselling residents permits to non residents) and CORRUPT (e.g. repeatedly trying to force through unsuitable house building projects that have been previously rejected). |  |
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