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Only from our own selfish perspective of travel would it makes sense to choose Saturday lunchtime over Monday evening if televised by BT.
There would be a lot of Billericay/Leatherhead fans who wouldn't enjoy seeing their game on a Monday night and a trip using the M25/M40/M4 to Wycombe in the rush hour to get there.
Our game, whenever it is, also throws up a lot of safety and logistics issues such as:
1. What's the capacity? There is talk of a maximum for 2,000 which sounds about right. This is not a full time ground but a local sports facility adapted for 7th tier football.
2. What's the away allocation? Based on 15% of the maximum that's about 300.
3. How are RAFC going to allocate 300 tickets across a season ticket base of 5 x that. First come, first served denies a fair allocation to season ticket holders. Ballot (of one ticket per season ticket) makes it possible that a family applying for four tickets might not get four tickets. A difficult one for Russ Green and the club.
4. If a Saturday and Sunday game, how will Slough segregate properly if Rochdale fans who can't get into the game in the Dale end get into the home end? There are lots of exiles in that part of the world, some who will not be season ticket holders.
I believe we printed our own tickets for Barrow away last year so it will be likely that will be the case again. Slough do not have the infrastructure here and Gainsborough Trinity in the First Round also printed their own tickets.
My hunch is that the authorities will want to minimise the attendance and these issues. BT's choosing of games will help them.
A Dale game on a Monday night will not see an away following of 300. It will also mean that there is probably not a 2,000 gate but still a sizeable crowd. Most Dale fans would watch on TV and avoid a lot of issues.
For the clubs concerned there is £72k of TV money here which is significantly greater than the gate receipts of Slough vs Rochdale will likely only be £25k-£30k
There is a guarantee that the Monday game team will know the potential third round prize before they kick off.
BT will want the drama of a big tie in Round 3 and a scripted upset.
"My hunch is that the authorities will want to minimise the attendance"
It would be a sad day for football if your hunch was to be accurate.
Fylde v Wigan was the standout tie so not surprised BBC went for that over our game. I am not sure why the Wycombe game is so attractive as it does not fit the normal pattern of non-league team at home to league team. I would have though the other game likely to be televised is Gateshead v Luton. If we were also on TV then travel for both sets of away fans would be difficult, so the argument above would be moot.
I think Slough/Rochdale and Wycome/Billericay/Leatherhead have the thing that the TV companies love in the FA cup. Gateshead/Luton is also a good call.
Three of those teams are guarateed a third round tie with just over a 31% chance of drawing a Premier League team.
The TV guys love nothing more than creating a story in a world of too much football David vs Goliath sells.
With these ties they have the chance to stoke a bit of interest and if Slough/Billericay/Leatherhead get through they are almost nailed on for a TV game again in Round 3 as one of the clubs in the top two divisions. There are no all non-league 2nd round ties this time and FA Cup tradition dicates that the lowest team usually gets a star turn in each round.
For us and Wycombe less so, unless we draw one of the Premier League top six round 3 TV coverage is far less likely and there the story becomes can that team keep the score down against a Premier League giant.
Obviously there is the luck in the draw in there but I think I'm right to say there will be 5 or 6 Round 3 games televised out of 32 fixtures. TV companies like to hedge their bets and do some groundwork just in case it's Slough vs Arsenal or Billericay vs West Ham in Round 3.
Supporters thoughts and feelings don't count for TV games - haven't done for years.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 14:48]
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Only from our own selfish perspective of travel would it makes sense to choose Saturday lunchtime over Monday evening if televised by BT.
There would be a lot of Billericay/Leatherhead fans who wouldn't enjoy seeing their game on a Monday night and a trip using the M25/M40/M4 to Wycombe in the rush hour to get there.
Our game, whenever it is, also throws up a lot of safety and logistics issues such as:
1. What's the capacity? There is talk of a maximum for 2,000 which sounds about right. This is not a full time ground but a local sports facility adapted for 7th tier football.
2. What's the away allocation? Based on 15% of the maximum that's about 300.
3. How are RAFC going to allocate 300 tickets across a season ticket base of 5 x that. First come, first served denies a fair allocation to season ticket holders. Ballot (of one ticket per season ticket) makes it possible that a family applying for four tickets might not get four tickets. A difficult one for Russ Green and the club.
4. If a Saturday and Sunday game, how will Slough segregate properly if Rochdale fans who can't get into the game in the Dale end get into the home end? There are lots of exiles in that part of the world, some who will not be season ticket holders.
I believe we printed our own tickets for Barrow away last year so it will be likely that will be the case again. Slough do not have the infrastructure here and Gainsborough Trinity in the First Round also printed their own tickets.
My hunch is that the authorities will want to minimise the attendance and these issues. BT's choosing of games will help them.
A Dale game on a Monday night will not see an away following of 300. It will also mean that there is probably not a 2,000 gate but still a sizeable crowd. Most Dale fans would watch on TV and avoid a lot of issues.
For the clubs concerned there is £72k of TV money here which is significantly greater than the gate receipts of Slough vs Rochdale will likely only be £25k-£30k
There is a guarantee that the Monday game team will know the potential third round prize before they kick off.
BT will want the drama of a big tie in Round 3 and a scripted upset.
Slough fan here just to clear a few things up.
The ground was built by the council (and is owned by them) primarily for use by the football club but is also there as a community asset with the two schools literally right next to it getting to use it.
The current official capacity is 1,950 but in reality it is much higher. The figure is based on the two stands behind the goals having official capacities of 700 each plus two seated stands of 250 each. (700+700+250+250=1,900). However there is plenty of standing space on the side-lines. No guarantee of this but it is possible that temporary stands could be installed for this match. Again no guarantee but with it being a council asset, increasing the capacity on the safety certificate would be quite easy and quick.
As per the rules of the FA Cup: "In all matches preceding the Semi-Finals, the Visiting Club shall have the right to claim up to 15% of all accommodation for which tickets are issued providing these tickets are in a fully segregated area." I would assume though that the two clubs are allowed to provide more if they come to an agreement.
At our current league games the council forces us to have an unnecessarily high number of stewards so with this being a bumper crowd there will probably be more stewards than fans so safety shouldn't be a problem.
In terms of printing and distributing tickets, that wont be a problem. We had two pre season friendlies with Wycombe Wanderers an West Bromwich Albion this year with both being all ticketed so the club have experience with this. Add to that we will host Hereford later this season in the league and the club had already planned this to have segregation and probably ticketed.
The pitch is a 3G pitch rated FIFA 2 STAR which is the highest rating possible an is only 1 of 24 in the entire country. Playing good passing football will not be a problem.
Which ever day the match is played parking will be a problem so if you get a chance to go by coach it is probably a good idea.
The ground was built by the council (and is owned by them) primarily for use by the football club but is also there as a community asset with the two schools literally right next to it getting to use it.
The current official capacity is 1,950 but in reality it is much higher. The figure is based on the two stands behind the goals having official capacities of 700 each plus two seated stands of 250 each. (700+700+250+250=1,900). However there is plenty of standing space on the side-lines. No guarantee of this but it is possible that temporary stands could be installed for this match. Again no guarantee but with it being a council asset, increasing the capacity on the safety certificate would be quite easy and quick.
As per the rules of the FA Cup: "In all matches preceding the Semi-Finals, the Visiting Club shall have the right to claim up to 15% of all accommodation for which tickets are issued providing these tickets are in a fully segregated area." I would assume though that the two clubs are allowed to provide more if they come to an agreement.
At our current league games the council forces us to have an unnecessarily high number of stewards so with this being a bumper crowd there will probably be more stewards than fans so safety shouldn't be a problem.
In terms of printing and distributing tickets, that wont be a problem. We had two pre season friendlies with Wycombe Wanderers an West Bromwich Albion this year with both being all ticketed so the club have experience with this. Add to that we will host Hereford later this season in the league and the club had already planned this to have segregation and probably ticketed.
The pitch is a 3G pitch rated FIFA 2 STAR which is the highest rating possible an is only 1 of 24 in the entire country. Playing good passing football will not be a problem.
Which ever day the match is played parking will be a problem so if you get a chance to go by coach it is probably a good idea.
Thanks for confirming the figures.
We have an allocation issue on our side - around 2,000 season ticket holders due to an initiative run this season to reduce prices. Add to that exiles who don't have season tickets, if we only do get 300, there will likely be Dale fans in the all stands. A maximum allocation of 600-700 (depending on the time of the game being a Saturday would probably be more than enough). Sunday or Monday we would bring less.
If the game is televised, our experience is that reduces capacity slightly, not sure if that would for your ground?
The good thing with our club is that we have decent fans who don't cause problems.
Hopefully there will be confirmation from BT Sport soon - we would certainly welcome the TV money as part of our cup run.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 14:46]
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
We have an allocation issue on our side - around 2,000 season ticket holders due to an initiative run this season to reduce prices. Add to that exiles who don't have season tickets, if we only do get 300, there will likely be Dale fans in the all stands. A maximum allocation of 600-700 (depending on the time of the game being a Saturday would probably be more than enough). Sunday or Monday we would bring less.
If the game is televised, our experience is that reduces capacity slightly, not sure if that would for your ground?
The good thing with our club is that we have decent fans who don't cause problems.
Hopefully there will be confirmation from BT Sport soon - we would certainly welcome the TV money as part of our cup run.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 14:46]
That is from our 4th qualifying round match vs Folkestone (attendance 940).
You would most likely be given space in the stand on the left hand side as the camera looks at it. There is a good chance you would end up getting the whole stand ( space for 700 people) but again it will all be based on what the two clubs agree.
I think Slough/Rochdale and Wycome/Billericay/Leatherhead have the thing that the TV companies love in the FA cup. Gateshead/Luton is also a good call.
Three of those teams are guarateed a third round tie with just over a 31% chance of drawing a Premier League team.
The TV guys love nothing more than creating a story in a world of too much football David vs Goliath sells.
With these ties they have the chance to stoke a bit of interest and if Slough/Billericay/Leatherhead get through they are almost nailed on for a TV game again in Round 3 as one of the clubs in the top two divisions. There are no all non-league 2nd round ties this time and FA Cup tradition dicates that the lowest team usually gets a star turn in each round.
For us and Wycombe less so, unless we draw one of the Premier League top six round 3 TV coverage is far less likely and there the story becomes can that team keep the score down against a Premier League giant.
Obviously there is the luck in the draw in there but I think I'm right to say there will be 5 or 6 Round 3 games televised out of 32 fixtures. TV companies like to hedge their bets and do some groundwork just in case it's Slough vs Arsenal or Billericay vs West Ham in Round 3.
Supporters thoughts and feelings don't count for TV games - haven't done for years.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 14:48]
Not sure that is true? Once the Prem clubs come in they take over the TV games. Last season 5 non league teams made the 3rd round and not one was televised live in the U.K. Lincoln,Barrow,Stourbridge,Eastleigh and Sutton.
Six Emirates FA Cup third round ties have been selected for live TV coverage. Manchester City’s trip to West Ham’s London Stadium on Friday 6 January 2017 will kick-off a bumper weekend of action, and the tie will be broadcast on BBC One. BT Sport have picked two ties for live broadcast on Saturday 7 January — Manchester United v Reading and Preston North End v Arsenal. They will then show Liverpool’s match against either Plymouth Argyle or Newport County before BBC pick up the reins again by showing Tottenham v Aston Villa. Cambridge United v Leeds United will bring the weekend's live coverage to a close on Monday 9 January, on BT Sport. Each club will receive £144,000 in broadcast fees while the victors of each tie will pick up £67,500 from The FA prize fund. Third Round TV ties Friday 6 January 2017 West Ham United v Manchester City (7.55pm) — BBC One Saturday 7 January 2017 Manchester United v Reading (12.30pm) — BT Sport 2 Preston North End v Arsenal (5.30pm) — BT Sport 2 Sunday 8 January 2017 Liverpool v Plymouth Argyle or Newport County (1.30pm) — BT Sport 2 Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa (4pm) — BBC One Monday 9 January 2017 Cambridge United v Leeds United (7.45pm) — BT Sport 2 By FA Staff
Its a BRILLIANT goal to cap a BRILLIANT start by Rochdale - Don Goodman 26/08/10
I think Slough/Rochdale and Wycome/Billericay/Leatherhead have the thing that the TV companies love in the FA cup. Gateshead/Luton is also a good call.
Three of those teams are guarateed a third round tie with just over a 31% chance of drawing a Premier League team.
The TV guys love nothing more than creating a story in a world of too much football David vs Goliath sells.
With these ties they have the chance to stoke a bit of interest and if Slough/Billericay/Leatherhead get through they are almost nailed on for a TV game again in Round 3 as one of the clubs in the top two divisions. There are no all non-league 2nd round ties this time and FA Cup tradition dicates that the lowest team usually gets a star turn in each round.
For us and Wycombe less so, unless we draw one of the Premier League top six round 3 TV coverage is far less likely and there the story becomes can that team keep the score down against a Premier League giant.
Obviously there is the luck in the draw in there but I think I'm right to say there will be 5 or 6 Round 3 games televised out of 32 fixtures. TV companies like to hedge their bets and do some groundwork just in case it's Slough vs Arsenal or Billericay vs West Ham in Round 3.
Supporters thoughts and feelings don't count for TV games - haven't done for years.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 14:48]
Don't mention "stoke" and "round 3" in the same sentence, please.
Not sure that is true? Once the Prem clubs come in they take over the TV games. Last season 5 non league teams made the 3rd round and not one was televised live in the U.K. Lincoln,Barrow,Stourbridge,Eastleigh and Sutton.
Six Emirates FA Cup third round ties have been selected for live TV coverage. Manchester City’s trip to West Ham’s London Stadium on Friday 6 January 2017 will kick-off a bumper weekend of action, and the tie will be broadcast on BBC One. BT Sport have picked two ties for live broadcast on Saturday 7 January — Manchester United v Reading and Preston North End v Arsenal. They will then show Liverpool’s match against either Plymouth Argyle or Newport County before BBC pick up the reins again by showing Tottenham v Aston Villa. Cambridge United v Leeds United will bring the weekend's live coverage to a close on Monday 9 January, on BT Sport. Each club will receive £144,000 in broadcast fees while the victors of each tie will pick up £67,500 from The FA prize fund. Third Round TV ties Friday 6 January 2017 West Ham United v Manchester City (7.55pm) — BBC One Saturday 7 January 2017 Manchester United v Reading (12.30pm) — BT Sport 2 Preston North End v Arsenal (5.30pm) — BT Sport 2 Sunday 8 January 2017 Liverpool v Plymouth Argyle or Newport County (1.30pm) — BT Sport 2 Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa (4pm) — BBC One Monday 9 January 2017 Cambridge United v Leeds United (7.45pm) — BT Sport 2 By FA Staff
For R3 2016-17 certainly true. I think I said in my previous post "obviously there is the luck in the draw in there" and the TV companies prime concern is viewers.
We were shown on US TV the year we beat Leeds at Spotland because they were a recognisable name - not televised in the UK. January 2015 saw Exeter host Liverpool and there are others that fit the mould.
If you take the third round games, I'd argue that it was the non-league club opponents that were the problem in Round 3; Ipswich, Dale, Wycombe, Brentford and AFC Wimbledon. The highest club of those five was Ipswich halfway down the second tier of English football.
In the 4th round, Sutton and Lincoln I think were televised as was Lincoln's other games vs Burnley and Arsenal. At Turf Moor the TV guys got the upset story they wanted and then in Round 6 the hammering of a "plucky" non-league team.
I've never worked in TV, but I think if you are scheduling these game at Round 1 and Round 2 you are looking at:
* Is there an interesting FA Cup back story * Is the non-league team at home * Is the non-league team likely to score a goal/possibly cause an upset * Where in the UK is it
When you get to Round 3 it is the Premier League top six with the interest story of upset thrown in - last 3rd Round day that was Cambridge vs Leeds.
If you're a TV executive, getting paid off the viewing figures you create, I think that its a shoe-in that your draft plan for Round 3 TV consists of Man United, Man City, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal with then one eye on the actual draw.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 16:21]
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Like it or not, TV companies, like Sky Sports or BT Sport don't want fans at games anymore - they want them on their sofas watching on TV or on a mobile tablet device thereby changing the viewing platform of choice from a football stand to outside it.
In doing that they are selling a TV subscription, a broadband subscription and a phone subcription per household which is far more lucrative prize than the advertising revenue.
To do this they price a monthly TV subscription package at significantly less than any club can price their matchday entry on a breakeven basis and then use that money to feed the top level of the game, in our country the top two divisions, with ridiculous subsidy which they then make the participants financially dependent on. Take away TV money and virtually every team in the UK other than Manchester City and Chelsea is bust.
To assist this disrpution, TV companies move the games to suit their audiences, not the clubs and fans and encourage everyone to chase the dream of Premier League football.
When the money runs out (see clubs in the bottom half of the Championship, some in League 1 and League 2) you see the economic reality half empty grounds and a lack of interest vs TV football.
If you look at Blackburn, Wigan, Bolton and others they are the clubs who have these grounds that are never likely to be full again and debts which were racked up on the back of Premier League TV revenue streams.
To make it worse the TV companies then peddle a European version of the same thing; which itself has two tiers - the Champions League and Europe league. This competes deliberately with the lower league domestic programme which futher undermines it.
It also makes half of our English top domestic division redundant. TV viewing figures for Hudderfield or Bournemouth are often a third of what a top six club get at home to the same opposition. To counter this the top flight forms a cartel that protects each member's interest, gives a certain number of games and a merit payment per league place finish. Sky or BT have rights to show every Huddersfield or Bournemouth game if they wish but they choose not to.
Crucially, the clubs cannot broadcast games themselves or have the infrastructure to move away. The TV companies go after people for copyright and image right infringements to ensure their interest is protected.
Because of this TV company behaviour impact on habits, the technology advances and the advertising, the millenial generation now doesn't go to games. It doesn't show an interest in the League Cup, the FA Cup or anything internationally which is a massive shift from 25 years ago.
If you're under 25, your most likely to see a goal highlight on your smartphone. Move over Gary Lineker.
For a few hundred diehards who will follow their teams, you're going anyway. You probably have a TV subscription anyway.
For BT Sport it doesn't matter what time Slough vs Rochdale kicks off and on what day because you'll be there. If you add up the cost of the trip, the ticket and a few sundries I'll be you could have Sky or BT for a few months and watch some of the best players in the world.
The corporations are heavily invested - they're not going to make it easy for fans.
FA Cup 2nd round day for BT clashes at 17.30 with Arsenal vs Manchester United. The Sky lunchtime game is Chelsea vs Newcastle.
On the Sunday when we might play untelivised there is Super Sunday - Bournemouth vs Southampton and Man City vs West Ham.
Monday night, when we might play also, it is Birmingham vs Wolves on Sky - to compete with BT Sport.
What chance do small teams like us and Slough have?
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 17:28]
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Like it or not, TV companies, like Sky Sports or BT Sport don't want fans at games anymore - they want them on their sofas watching on TV or on a mobile tablet device thereby changing the viewing platform of choice from a football stand to outside it.
In doing that they are selling a TV subscription, a broadband subscription and a phone subcription per household which is far more lucrative prize than the advertising revenue.
To do this they price a monthly TV subscription package at significantly less than any club can price their matchday entry on a breakeven basis and then use that money to feed the top level of the game, in our country the top two divisions, with ridiculous subsidy which they then make the participants financially dependent on. Take away TV money and virtually every team in the UK other than Manchester City and Chelsea is bust.
To assist this disrpution, TV companies move the games to suit their audiences, not the clubs and fans and encourage everyone to chase the dream of Premier League football.
When the money runs out (see clubs in the bottom half of the Championship, some in League 1 and League 2) you see the economic reality half empty grounds and a lack of interest vs TV football.
If you look at Blackburn, Wigan, Bolton and others they are the clubs who have these grounds that are never likely to be full again and debts which were racked up on the back of Premier League TV revenue streams.
To make it worse the TV companies then peddle a European version of the same thing; which itself has two tiers - the Champions League and Europe league. This competes deliberately with the lower league domestic programme which futher undermines it.
It also makes half of our English top domestic division redundant. TV viewing figures for Hudderfield or Bournemouth are often a third of what a top six club get at home to the same opposition. To counter this the top flight forms a cartel that protects each member's interest, gives a certain number of games and a merit payment per league place finish. Sky or BT have rights to show every Huddersfield or Bournemouth game if they wish but they choose not to.
Crucially, the clubs cannot broadcast games themselves or have the infrastructure to move away. The TV companies go after people for copyright and image right infringements to ensure their interest is protected.
Because of this TV company behaviour impact on habits, the technology advances and the advertising, the millenial generation now doesn't go to games. It doesn't show an interest in the League Cup, the FA Cup or anything internationally which is a massive shift from 25 years ago.
If you're under 25, your most likely to see a goal highlight on your smartphone. Move over Gary Lineker.
For a few hundred diehards who will follow their teams, you're going anyway. You probably have a TV subscription anyway.
For BT Sport it doesn't matter what time Slough vs Rochdale kicks off and on what day because you'll be there. If you add up the cost of the trip, the ticket and a few sundries I'll be you could have Sky or BT for a few months and watch some of the best players in the world.
The corporations are heavily invested - they're not going to make it easy for fans.
FA Cup 2nd round day for BT clashes at 17.30 with Arsenal vs Manchester United. The Sky lunchtime game is Chelsea vs Newcastle.
On the Sunday when we might play untelivised there is Super Sunday - Bournemouth vs Southampton and Man City vs West Ham.
Monday night, when we might play also, it is Birmingham vs Wolves on Sky - to compete with BT Sport.
What chance do small teams like us and Slough have?
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 17:28]
It had better be 3pm on Saturday then.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
The only debate we should be having with this fixture is how the allocated Rochdale tickets are going to be allocated across those with a season ticket.
No one has put a sensible answer to how that happens yet.
The fact that BT Sport are timing an FA Cup second round game to compete with a second tier league fixture is so anti-fan it's untrue.
Sadly, given Slough's position, the possible upset and last round performance I'd think 3pm Saturday comes after 12.30 Saturday, 2pm Sunday and 7.45pm Monday as possible timings.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 18:04]
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
The only debate we should be having with this fixture is how the allocated Rochdale tickets are going to be allocated across those with a season ticket.
No one has put a sensible answer to how that happens yet.
The fact that BT Sport are timing an FA Cup second round game to compete with a second tier league fixture is so anti-fan it's untrue.
Sadly, given Slough's position, the possible upset and last round performance I'd think 3pm Saturday comes after 12.30 Saturday, 2pm Sunday and 7.45pm Monday as possible timings.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2017 18:04]
If it’s live on TV it would mean more Dale fans will be able to see it, which won’t be the case at 3pm on Saturday.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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