| Are we witnessing a sea change in football 23:24 - Mar 13 with 5058 views | centrestandswan |
and are we being left behind ?
Hibs v Ross County , Ross County had less possession but won
Arse v Watford , Watford again less possession but won
Bournemouth v Swans same again
Man C v Leicester same again.
Spurs v Leicester
Teams that sit back absorb pressure break quickly seem to be gaining the upper hand. Not scientific but it does appear that if you dwell on the ball and are unable to deliver a cutting pass to the forwards the opposition will just overwhelm you, obvious really. This style of play is on the up ,not new by any means but effective yes against the more traditional footballing sides. |  |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 00:11 - Mar 14 with 3841 views | thejack1912 |
Bournemouth scored from 3 errors on our part, really we should never of conceded such poor goals.
Arsenal missed some great chances, and really should've levelled things up.
Leicester had some outstanding clinical finishing that day, and made the most of their set pieces.
All 3 teams however are very good on the counter attack and have shown to be clinical in such situations. Obviously I haven't seen much Scottish football so I can't comment.
Also teams claim a lot of possession when looking to get back into games late on when the winning team tucks in. I'm sure our possession drops when we're winning and other teams are pushing late on against us. |  |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 00:13 - Mar 14 with 3837 views | SwansNZ |
Some games are won by the team with the most possession, and others by the them with less possession.
I could pick 5 games from the weekend that show the opposite to what you have.
The only game of these listed, that I saw, was our game, and Bournemouth did not sit back and absorb pressure. It was a very even game. |  |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 00:30 - Mar 14 with 3811 views | jruss1 |
When has possession football ever been popular in English football?
Our ability to master it was an advantage in the early years of the Prem, well that's how I always saw it.
It's very much the way of playing in Spain, unless your Athletico Madrid.
Both Bayern and Dortmund, very much teams who love to control possession.
The quicker we get back to running these generic hoof ball nonense teams all over the park with a possession game...the better. The Premier League will continue to serve the same rubbish regardless. It's a shame we have become part of it. | | | |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 06:43 - Mar 14 with 3691 views | Dr_Winston |
The days of retaining possession for the sake of it are long gone. I don't think even Rodgers is beholden to the idea any more. The first thing Laudrup did when he took over in 2012 was to shoot the concept down.
Where we've struggled over the last year or two is just the lack of pace in the side. Both in terms of individual players and in the way we've moved the ball. The first is a recruitment issue, the second down to poor management choices. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 06:48 - Mar 14 with 3680 views | jack247 |
Leicester games can be quite exciting to watch, but all they essentially do is pack the midfield, invite opponents on to them, let them over commit and counter at speed. They have assembled a squad perfect for it.
If that becomes the norm, and iI bet a lot of teams will try to copy their model, we are going to get a lot of boring football over the next few seasons, with chess matches between teams scared to commit many men to an attack, unless their opponents are out of position. | | | |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 06:54 - Mar 14 with 3664 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 00:30 - Mar 14 by jruss1 |
When has possession football ever been popular in English football?
Our ability to master it was an advantage in the early years of the Prem, well that's how I always saw it.
It's very much the way of playing in Spain, unless your Athletico Madrid.
Both Bayern and Dortmund, very much teams who love to control possession.
The quicker we get back to running these generic hoof ball nonense teams all over the park with a possession game...the better. The Premier League will continue to serve the same rubbish regardless. It's a shame we have become part of it. |
Agreed |  |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 06:57 - Mar 14 with 3650 views | jack247 |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 06:43 - Mar 14 by Dr_Winston |
The days of retaining possession for the sake of it are long gone. I don't think even Rodgers is beholden to the idea any more. The first thing Laudrup did when he took over in 2012 was to shoot the concept down.
Where we've struggled over the last year or two is just the lack of pace in the side. Both in terms of individual players and in the way we've moved the ball. The first is a recruitment issue, the second down to poor management choices. |
I think it's more guile we have lacked than pace (individually at least, in terms of ball movement I agree with you). I know we don't often play them, but some of the players we have in the squad now are as quick as any we have had over the years. What we don't have, is a group of players capable of cutting through a defence with a sweeping move. Gylfi is obviously adept at it, Routledge links well, both Fer and Paloschi look to have a bit of potential there too.
As much as I defend Taylor defensively, our full backs are an issue here, he just isn't attack minded, whereas Rangel gets forward, but then can't get back as quick as he used to. It's difficult for them to link with Ayew or Barrow, because Ayew drifts and Barrow is more direct than intricate.
I'd love to see a 2016/17 version of our Rangel/Dyer partnership on both sides, linking with each other and a central midfielder. | | | |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 07:08 - Mar 14 with 3627 views | Dr_Winston |
Certainly we don't have anything like the kind of vision players like Hernandez and JdG provided. Couldn't agree more there, and it's one of the reasons I'm hoping that JdG is still an option come the summer.
The Routledge of 2/3 years ago was quicker. The Rangel of 2/3 years ago was quicker. We also still had a non-marginalised Dyer available to us then too. In a system that suited them, which brings us back to the belief I've often stated about our wingers.
None of them did particularly well under GM (despite Dyer being singled out) because the way we played was never going to get the best out of them. We moved the ball too slowly, by which time there were no gaps for them to exploit, or we played a diamond, which is a naturally narrow setup. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 08:07 - Mar 14 with 3506 views | Clinton |
Absolutely, we move the ball too slowly, it allows the opposition to organise and it doesn't tire them out. Opposition used to go off at half time bemused and exhausted, let's get back to moving it quickly and accurately. |  |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 08:14 - Mar 14 with 3487 views | monmouth |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 08:07 - Mar 14 by Clinton |
Absolutely, we move the ball too slowly, it allows the opposition to organise and it doesn't tire them out. Opposition used to go off at half time bemused and exhausted, let's get back to moving it quickly and accurately. |
In general, everyone seems to want want three touches and to look around before passing sideways in a safe way and admiring themselves. It does my swede in. |  |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 08:16 - Mar 14 with 3484 views | Dr_Winston |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 08:14 - Mar 14 by monmouth |
In general, everyone seems to want want three touches and to look around before passing sideways in a safe way and admiring themselves. It does my swede in. |
Or in Fernandez's case two touches, then abject panic once he realises that he's gone ten whole yards with the ball before quickly giving it to someone else and scurrying back. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 08:23 - Mar 14 with 3460 views | monmouth |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 08:16 - Mar 14 by Dr_Winston |
Or in Fernandez's case two touches, then abject panic once he realises that he's gone ten whole yards with the ball before quickly giving it to someone else and scurrying back. |
The look of total panic on his face is almost funny, and there's normally 20 yards of space in front of him. | |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 08:29 - Mar 14 with 3432 views | Private_Partz |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 06:43 - Mar 14 by Dr_Winston |
The days of retaining possession for the sake of it are long gone. I don't think even Rodgers is beholden to the idea any more. The first thing Laudrup did when he took over in 2012 was to shoot the concept down.
Where we've struggled over the last year or two is just the lack of pace in the side. Both in terms of individual players and in the way we've moved the ball. The first is a recruitment issue, the second down to poor management choices. |
I don't know Doc. Remember the MOTD speeded up thingys? Possession football can be massively successful but you need the talent to pull the trigger with the killer pass for it to be effective. I think our problems stem from the fact we have lost this ethos somewhat. I am hoping FG can get us back up to speed. [Post edited 14 Mar 2016 8:30]
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| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:03 - Mar 14 with 3294 views | scottishjack |
OP, you lost me at Hibs to be honest... 😂
Hibs "hibsed" another cup final, possession has nothing to do with that one I'm afraid. Hibs and Cardiff as local rivals to my two sides! I am truly blessed at times 😂 |  | | |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:04 - Mar 14 with 3292 views | Dr_Winston |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 08:29 - Mar 14 by Private_Partz |
I don't know Doc. Remember the MOTD speeded up thingys? Possession football can be massively successful but you need the talent to pull the trigger with the killer pass for it to be effective. I think our problems stem from the fact we have lost this ethos somewhat. I am hoping FG can get us back up to speed. [Post edited 14 Mar 2016 8:30]
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That was four years ago. The game's moved on.
Being able to retain possession will never not be important, but the idea that we lived by at the time, that if we had the ball for 70% of the game we'd probably win, is outdated for me.
Being able to move the ball faster and more accurately than the opposition seems to be more important these days than just being better at holding onto it. Laudrup's team was masterful at it. For seven months at least. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:17 - Mar 14 with 3263 views | jack247 |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:04 - Mar 14 by Dr_Winston |
That was four years ago. The game's moved on.
Being able to retain possession will never not be important, but the idea that we lived by at the time, that if we had the ball for 70% of the game we'd probably win, is outdated for me.
Being able to move the ball faster and more accurately than the opposition seems to be more important these days than just being better at holding onto it. Laudrup's team was masterful at it. For seven months at least. |
Possession is still key, but it's pointless without incision. | | | |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:33 - Mar 14 with 3223 views | icecoldjack |
Not sure if we are being left behind as laudrup a team was fast on the counter and had pace to burn, it's more like us listening to the wrong people and going backwards as a result of that.
Monk was successful in adapting a similar approach to laudrup before believing himself to be the best thing since sliced bread and totally changing what we were.
We just need to get our basic technical football back then build on from there . Pace and power have usually ruled the prem league butwTching the likes of Dortmund in Europe they have harnessed this with great technique .
Something we saw for a time under laudrup until injuries and cliques started clouding things . |  | | |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:54 - Mar 14 with 3193 views | jasper_T |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:17 - Mar 14 by jack247 |
Possession is still key, but it's pointless without incision. |
Not if you're already winning the game. | | | |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:56 - Mar 14 with 3187 views | jack247 |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:54 - Mar 14 by jasper_T |
Not if you're already winning the game. |
We won't be very often if we can't break defences down. | | | |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:57 - Mar 14 with 3180 views | thejack1912 |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:54 - Mar 14 by jasper_T |
Not if you're already winning the game. |
Exactly, the opposition can't score without the ball. | |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 11:59 - Mar 14 with 3119 views | Private_Partz |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 10:17 - Mar 14 by jack247 |
Possession is still key, but it's pointless without incision. |
Exactly. Also it is mix and match. Knowing when to go direct and when to keep ball. That can depend on the opposition. Plans A and B and all that. ML could go direct ad well. Remember Michu's brace at Aresenal? Possession footbal still has its place for me. West Brom and Palace can do their own thing as it suits the type of player they have. I know which I would prefer to watch. | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 15:58 - Mar 14 with 2954 views | oldcob |
Fair enough, we conceded three poor goals last Saturday, but if you attack defences they will sometimes make mistakes. Maybe we should be attacking more and putting opposition defences under pressure and lets make them make mistakes in front of their own goal. Law of average they will. Instead we look for the ball to go sideways or back and not applying pressure on opposition defences. It really gets on my goat when we have a free kick just inside the opponents half and pass it back. We don't apply pressure. I'm not advocating 'lump it up' football, but surely a ball into their penalty area is going to be more beneficial than putting it back to our back four. Keep putting the ball into their penalty area and sooner or later you get the rewards. | | | |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 16:11 - Mar 14 with 2935 views | waynekerr55 |
Football goes in cycles
Counter attacking is in fashion, then possession will come back, then physicality and the cycle begins over and over |  |
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| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 21:04 - Mar 14 with 2767 views | jackedup |
There is a sea change for certain, but it is not ultimately about how much possession one has.
It is more about constant movement off the ball, whether in defense or offense -- and this requires incredible levels of fitness. All the teams at the top this year who are not fortunate enough to have the likes of Aguero have gained success in proportion to their graft. The same goes for upper-half and mid-table teams that generally lack the individual quality of wealthier teams.
I think the technological revolutions, especially the amount of technical information that is so widely available electronically, has allowed teams having humbler means to attain levels of technical competence that used to be traditionally reserved for the wealthier teams. It is not only about training facilities and budgets anymore. It is now all about efficient implementations, eclecticism, and logistical skills, and ways to gain subtle information-based advantages.
Southampton has been one of the leading innovators, and Pochettino has taken many of the practices he learned there with him to Tottenham, where he can implement these extremely innovative practices and even increase the scale and scope of these innovations.
Did you read the article that was published a few years ago how Southampton reserves the hotel for two nights and brings mattresses having the precise specifications that the players prefer so that their sleep quality is maximised?
It is this level of attention to detail that will distinguish the winners and losers of the future. Those like Mourinho and Van Gaal, who seem content to keep on doing what's worked in the past will be left in the dust by those who constantly innovate. | | | |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 23:22 - Mar 14 with 2671 views | Dr_Winston |
| Are we witnessing a sea change in football on 21:04 - Mar 14 by jackedup |
There is a sea change for certain, but it is not ultimately about how much possession one has.
It is more about constant movement off the ball, whether in defense or offense -- and this requires incredible levels of fitness. All the teams at the top this year who are not fortunate enough to have the likes of Aguero have gained success in proportion to their graft. The same goes for upper-half and mid-table teams that generally lack the individual quality of wealthier teams.
I think the technological revolutions, especially the amount of technical information that is so widely available electronically, has allowed teams having humbler means to attain levels of technical competence that used to be traditionally reserved for the wealthier teams. It is not only about training facilities and budgets anymore. It is now all about efficient implementations, eclecticism, and logistical skills, and ways to gain subtle information-based advantages.
Southampton has been one of the leading innovators, and Pochettino has taken many of the practices he learned there with him to Tottenham, where he can implement these extremely innovative practices and even increase the scale and scope of these innovations.
Did you read the article that was published a few years ago how Southampton reserves the hotel for two nights and brings mattresses having the precise specifications that the players prefer so that their sleep quality is maximised?
It is this level of attention to detail that will distinguish the winners and losers of the future. Those like Mourinho and Van Gaal, who seem content to keep on doing what's worked in the past will be left in the dust by those who constantly innovate. |
Seems like a lot of coaches in a lot of disciplines are starting to copy the methods of Dave Brailsford. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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