| Call me a cynic 16:19 - Nov 25 with 3205 views | Nogginthenog |
With the govt desperate to introduce a snoopers
charter, what an opportune moment to use the Lee Rigby report to say that the intelligence services may have been more able to prevent the attack if they had carte blanche access to everyone's emails and ISP info.
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| Call me a cynic on 16:23 - Nov 25 with 2362 views | Jackhero |
I get what you are saying, but if you honestly have nothing to hide and are not involved in anything dodgy then why does it matter? It seems the UK and US governments are getting this info anyway legally or not. |  |
| Tubbs: Will heaven be like Swansea? Edward: Yes, Tubbs. Only... bigger. |
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| Call me a cynic on 16:26 - Nov 25 with 2357 views | LeonisGod |
| Call me a cynic on 16:23 - Nov 25 by Jackhero |
I get what you are saying, but if you honestly have nothing to hide and are not involved in anything dodgy then why does it matter? It seems the UK and US governments are getting this info anyway legally or not. |
Indeed. If someone wants to check out my PS posting history or latest Tescos shop that's fine by me as long as it stops a few nutters planning a bomb or abusing kids. (I better start shopping in Waitrose though just in case - don't want to give a bad impression). |  | | |
| Call me a cynic on 16:27 - Nov 25 with 2357 views | Nogginthenog |
| Call me a cynic on 16:23 - Nov 25 by Jackhero |
I get what you are saying, but if you honestly have nothing to hide and are not involved in anything dodgy then why does it matter? It seems the UK and US governments are getting this info anyway legally or not. |
The point is they are eroding our freedom inch by inch in the name of reducing terrorist threats whilst at the same time using policies that make attacks more likely. | | | |
| Call me a cynic on 16:47 - Nov 25 with 2329 views | Jackhero |
| Call me a cynic on 16:27 - Nov 25 by Nogginthenog |
The point is they are eroding our freedom inch by inch in the name of reducing terrorist threats whilst at the same time using policies that make attacks more likely. |
What freedoms exactly are you referring to? I can't think of much if anything I cannot do if I wanted to that is legal. | |
| Tubbs: Will heaven be like Swansea? Edward: Yes, Tubbs. Only... bigger. |
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| Call me a cynic on 17:05 - Nov 25 with 2301 views | perchrockjack |
To be this threat- and it is one- we re gonna have to put up with an idea like this.
If it makes us all safe and puts these killers out into the open ,the fact the government can snoop at my e mails ,face book etc really means nowt. |  |
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| Call me a cynic on 17:08 - Nov 25 with 2302 views | Jackfath |
Good scaremongering by the government to keep us all worried, timid and scared. Good job the Government are looking after us all eh! |  |
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| Call me a cynic on 17:10 - Nov 25 with 2291 views | perchrockjack |
Im none of those really Mat ;Im certainly not scared of anyone snooping on me. | |
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| Call me a cynic on 17:12 - Nov 25 with 2293 views | Jackfath |
| Call me a cynic on 17:10 - Nov 25 by perchrockjack |
Im none of those really Mat ;Im certainly not scared of anyone snooping on me. |
Indeed. However you're more switched on than the average Joe. Get this in through the back door as a tactic to protect us all from the baddies.
I am unsure who the baddies are these days. | |
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| Call me a cynic on 17:15 - Nov 25 with 2290 views | Nogginthenog |
| Call me a cynic on 16:47 - Nov 25 by Jackhero |
What freedoms exactly are you referring to? I can't think of much if anything I cannot do if I wanted to that is legal. |
Well I have nothing to hide either but my freedom is definitely eroded by moves such as this. Totalitarian states act like this, not democracies. I note you avoided my point about the western policies that ferment hatred toward us. | | | |
| Call me a cynic on 17:36 - Nov 25 with 2262 views | perchrockjack |
My freedom is secondary to the general safety of the public.
If we all had 100% unfettered freedom we d have chaos.
We ve had the luxury of "freedom" for many years yet somehow, sometimes I feel our personal freedoms need to be curtailed.
People have criminal and warped minds so these people should not ,imo have personal freedom to do what they like. If they do, they could harm YOU.
Bigot/fascist I may be but some people simply cannot be allowed to have "freedom".
Anyway, that me lot for today. I ll hold a brief question and answer session in the Alma prior to the game Saturday but no d1ickheads please. I ll be taking donations for injured Israeli soldiers..
back in my box................. | |
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| Call me a cynic on 17:45 - Nov 25 with 2260 views | Swanzay |
T May's timing was most definitely orchestrated to coincide with the Rigby report. These are the people that lose documents on trains and purposefully destroy evidence that could damage their own.
The more information they gather, lose or whatever.Then more they can control and manipulate, thus further increasing their position and control.
IF you think these sorts of things are done for the good of the citizens, need to start thinking for themselves, before they become even more brain washed.
Those of the 'nothing to hide' persuasion, may as well live in a glass house.
“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” Benjamin Franklin
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Goebels |  | | |
| Call me a cynic on 18:01 - Nov 25 with 2245 views | Nogginthenog |
| Call me a cynic on 17:45 - Nov 25 by Swanzay |
T May's timing was most definitely orchestrated to coincide with the Rigby report. These are the people that lose documents on trains and purposefully destroy evidence that could damage their own.
The more information they gather, lose or whatever.Then more they can control and manipulate, thus further increasing their position and control.
IF you think these sorts of things are done for the good of the citizens, need to start thinking for themselves, before they become even more brain washed.
Those of the 'nothing to hide' persuasion, may as well live in a glass house.
“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” Benjamin Franklin
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Goebels |
Eloquently put. | | | |
| Call me a cynic on 18:11 - Nov 25 with 2239 views | Catullus |
| Call me a cynic on 17:45 - Nov 25 by Swanzay |
T May's timing was most definitely orchestrated to coincide with the Rigby report. These are the people that lose documents on trains and purposefully destroy evidence that could damage their own.
The more information they gather, lose or whatever.Then more they can control and manipulate, thus further increasing their position and control.
IF you think these sorts of things are done for the good of the citizens, need to start thinking for themselves, before they become even more brain washed.
Those of the 'nothing to hide' persuasion, may as well live in a glass house.
“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” Benjamin Franklin
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Goebels |
We are already spied on every day. They can read our emails and texts, listen to phone calls and enter our houses, whenever they want. Every time I use a bank card or pass cctv, they know where I am.
What else can they do? | |
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| Call me a cynic on 18:34 - Nov 25 with 2217 views | reddythered |
There are some pretty vile groups on Facebook, for example.
My wife requested deletion of one; response "Doesn't violate standards". It took numerous responses - the final one asking what Mark Zuckerbergs respose would be to a group called "Kill all Jews" - until it was deleted.
Funnily enough, the intelligence services aren't interested in the fact person X is going to have a boiled egg for tea. It's also naive to handicap intelligence services by allowing things like email, social media to be used as a mechanism for communication but tut tut when it gets monitored. | |
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| Call me a cynic on 19:30 - Nov 25 with 2182 views | Jackhero |
| Call me a cynic on 17:15 - Nov 25 by Nogginthenog |
Well I have nothing to hide either but my freedom is definitely eroded by moves such as this. Totalitarian states act like this, not democracies. I note you avoided my point about the western policies that ferment hatred toward us. |
I have not avoided it just because I have not mentioned it. That fact is right, what our governments do, does create hatred towards us.
You have avoided answering which freedoms are eroded though. | |
| Tubbs: Will heaven be like Swansea? Edward: Yes, Tubbs. Only... bigger. |
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| Call me a cynic on 19:43 - Nov 25 with 2170 views | Nogginthenog |
| Call me a cynic on 19:30 - Nov 25 by Jackhero |
I have not avoided it just because I have not mentioned it. That fact is right, what our governments do, does create hatred towards us.
You have avoided answering which freedoms are eroded though. |
My freedom to converse with friends/colleagues without my privacy being invaded by spooks who have no right to spy on me. I'll give you another example. Before the gulf war I marched against us invading Iraq. I was surprised to see myself being filmed by police simply because I disagreed with the government's stance. It turns out we were right. No WMD were found and the current crock of shoitt that is Iraq is a direct result of our involvement in that country's affairs and the main reason we are under more threat at home from IS . Just because there are some bad apples we should not all have to give up our freedom of expression. Finally I do not feel safer because the govt have access to everyone's info. Quite the contrary. [Post edited 25 Nov 2014 19:52]
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| Call me a cynic on 21:55 - Nov 25 with 2124 views | Jackhero |
| Call me a cynic on 19:43 - Nov 25 by Nogginthenog |
My freedom to converse with friends/colleagues without my privacy being invaded by spooks who have no right to spy on me. I'll give you another example. Before the gulf war I marched against us invading Iraq. I was surprised to see myself being filmed by police simply because I disagreed with the government's stance. It turns out we were right. No WMD were found and the current crock of shoitt that is Iraq is a direct result of our involvement in that country's affairs and the main reason we are under more threat at home from IS . Just because there are some bad apples we should not all have to give up our freedom of expression. Finally I do not feel safer because the govt have access to everyone's info. Quite the contrary. [Post edited 25 Nov 2014 19:52]
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OK again I'll ask. What freedoms have been eroded? You can still protest...yes? Good. You can still converse with friends privately...yes...good. You are filmed everyday and as I have already said...if you are involved in nothing dodgy or illegal what are you worrying about?
I agree with you about Iraq etc...I was one who said we should be nowhere near there for the reasons they were saying we should! They lied...all of them for ulterior motives.
But the fact remains.....you are being watched already...you are being listened to....if you're a boring fecker like me who does not partake in anything remotely illegal what are you worrying about if you can still get on with your day to day life? Unless of course you do have something to hide? | |
| Tubbs: Will heaven be like Swansea? Edward: Yes, Tubbs. Only... bigger. |
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| Call me a cynic on 00:06 - Nov 26 with 2101 views | Jack_Meoff |
I'm of the opinion that the internet has taken the 'establishment' by surprise. They've by and large been able to control what the people consume via the idiot box and the owned 'news'papers but the sheer volume of information available via the net means people can look for their own sources of information. As someone said on another thread, they've been 'outflanked' by the internet.
These 'anti-terror' laws being rushed through - they're not to protect the people. Because, guess what, the government DON'T GIVE A F*CK. All they care about is protecting their corporate and financial masters from the people. We are the enemy folks, not the Islamic bogeymen, because we're cottoning on to them.
Meanwhile, whilst these measures are rushed through, the paedophile ring investigation continues at a snail's pace. |  |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Call me a cynic on 07:31 - Nov 26 with 2071 views | Nogginthenog |
| Call me a cynic on 21:55 - Nov 25 by Jackhero |
OK again I'll ask. What freedoms have been eroded? You can still protest...yes? Good. You can still converse with friends privately...yes...good. You are filmed everyday and as I have already said...if you are involved in nothing dodgy or illegal what are you worrying about?
I agree with you about Iraq etc...I was one who said we should be nowhere near there for the reasons they were saying we should! They lied...all of them for ulterior motives.
But the fact remains.....you are being watched already...you are being listened to....if you're a boring fecker like me who does not partake in anything remotely illegal what are you worrying about if you can still get on with your day to day life? Unless of course you do have something to hide? |
Yes I too am a boring f,,,Ker, but the fact we are already being watched and listened to each day doesn't't make it right. The very people who should stand up for our freedoms are the ones trying to take them away. We obviously won't agree on this. You are obviously ok with having your independence surgically removed by very untrustworthy idiots in parliament. I am not. | | | |
| Call me a cynic on 07:58 - Nov 26 with 2059 views | Jackhero |
| Call me a cynic on 07:31 - Nov 26 by Nogginthenog |
Yes I too am a boring f,,,Ker, but the fact we are already being watched and listened to each day doesn't't make it right. The very people who should stand up for our freedoms are the ones trying to take them away. We obviously won't agree on this. You are obviously ok with having your independence surgically removed by very untrustworthy idiots in parliament. I am not. |
Ha ha you still cannot point out what freedoms you think may have been taken away or eroded. Are you a a member of the Assembly or parliament? Look,I'm with you on this, even with regards to the illegal spying they do on us, for what purposes they do it though I have no idea, some poor twerp must be bored feckless checking the likes of mine and others internet/phone/email activity.
As someone mentioned above the internet has caught those in power by surprise which is to our advantage, lets expose them all and vote them all out and get honest folk in power. It may take a few generations but if we teach our children correctly then it's power to the people. REVOLUTION! | |
| Tubbs: Will heaven be like Swansea? Edward: Yes, Tubbs. Only... bigger. |
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| Call me a cynic on 08:27 - Nov 26 with 2045 views | Jack_Meoff |
They've taken away our freedom not to be f*cking illegally spied on. I don't get people who are comfortable with that. Probably the same people who want rid of the Human Rights Act. What happens when they broaden the term 'terrorist' to include those that speak out against government policy and question their official line on events? | |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Call me a cynic on 08:50 - Nov 26 with 2035 views | Nogginthenog |
| Call me a cynic on 08:27 - Nov 26 by Jack_Meoff |
They've taken away our freedom not to be f*cking illegally spied on. I don't get people who are comfortable with that. Probably the same people who want rid of the Human Rights Act. What happens when they broaden the term 'terrorist' to include those that speak out against government policy and question their official line on events? |
Jack Hero I would refer you to the above reply. More succinctly put than my attempts. [Post edited 26 Nov 2014 8:52]
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| Call me a cynic on 09:01 - Nov 26 with 2020 views | Brynmill_Jack |
Why everyone's? Why not use that kind targeted of profiling at airports they want to do on line but are not allowed to under discrimination laws?
If it's secret than how will certain groups know they're being listened to or snooped upon? When they're arrested just say it's under the Terrorism act.
Why is every UK citizen a potential terrorist? It's b*llocks!
[Post edited 26 Nov 2014 9:07]
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| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Call me a cynic on 10:45 - Nov 26 with 1985 views | jackb |
| Call me a cynic on 16:23 - Nov 25 by Jackhero |
I get what you are saying, but if you honestly have nothing to hide and are not involved in anything dodgy then why does it matter? It seems the UK and US governments are getting this info anyway legally or not. |
Wow, the nothing to hide argument on the first reply - that's got to be a record! |  | | |
| Call me a cynic on 10:55 - Nov 26 with 1977 views | Ponderosa |
I am concerned, carefree w*nking should be available to all |  |
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