| Could the trust be doomed? 15:16 - Nov 6 with 25834 views | NOTRAC |
I am not sure about this, but because of the way the ownership of the shares in Swansea City have actually been made, it might be that two "owners" could allow the American investors virtual control of the Club, without recourse to the present Board of Directors, the Trust,or the remaining shareholders.
We are often told that Martin Morgan and his wife own 225,000 shares in the club and that Brian Ketzon owns 200,000 shares which together equate to 50% of the total shares issued.
In fact they actually own no shares at all.The shares are owned by Oth Limited (225,000 shares) and Five Thirty Limited (161216shares) and T L R Investments Limited (38784shares)
It can be assumed therefore that Oth Limited is owned by Martin Morgan and his wife, and the other two companies by Brian Ketzon and family.
Without knowing of any legal restrictions,both Martin Morgan and Brian Ketzon could sell their shares in Oth Limited, Five Thirty Limited and T L R Investments Limited without any recourse to Swansea City Football Club and let in the Americans through the back door.The shares as such would not have changed hands, they are still owned by the same Companies (where incidentally they are shown as investments on the Balance Sheets of those Companies), it is just that the Americans have control of those shares.
If the above is legally feasible, then the Americans could contain absolute control by buying in exactly the same way the shares allegedly owned by Dineen but which are in fact owned by Bulk Vending Limited and Van Zweden whose shares are owned by Swansea Jacks Limited.
If the above scenario was possible,and I know of no reason why legally it is not, then the Trust would be powerless to stop it, and would receive nothing for their shares
I would hope there are provisions in place to stop the above happening, otherwise the Trust could be doomed. |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:21 - Nov 7 with 1090 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 22:40 - Nov 8 by Darran |
I know for a fact they under charged. |
Darran knew for a FACT the Directors under charged. |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:26 - Nov 7 with 1085 views | costalotta |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:16 - Nov 7 by TheResurrection |
Some great questions probably that were never asked.... |
I concur.
These are base line questions that should have been asked and communicated to the fan base to get it all out in the open. There is no NDA issues with any of that.
Th Trust could have done that...and by doing that would have positioned us well. This would have early on in the process have had an effect on the wider fan base to bring it all out. Kind of like what's starting to happen now, but a while ago. Then, we'd have been in a far stronger position now and far more belief in the Trust. Instead.... |  | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:35 - Nov 7 with 1055 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:15 - Nov 8 by Witneyjack |
Am I concerned about an outside investor ? Yes as I don't want us to go down the same road as our friends up the road.
The question of director's companies completing work for the club at a cheaper than competitors price has no part in that concern.
Trying to use that as a stick to beat the Board with is ridiculous. If people are concerned they should ask pertinent questions otherwise it looks a witch hunt.
I still appreciate what they did with our support and if they wish to cash in, good luck to them. My only concern is that they are careful who they pass the 'baton' on to. |
Every single post like this gave them free rein to carry on as they pleased to the point where they stuck up 2 fingers to the people that went out of their way to apologise for them and protect them. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:49 - Nov 7 with 1032 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:24 - Nov 8 by londonlisa2001 |
I agree with you.
I also would say that I completely believe the point that Darran made. The 'arms length' bit doesn't only ensure that work is done at a commercial rate, the need to be able to so clearly demonstrate value is such that I would completely expect any work done by a related party to be done more cheaply than would otherwise be possible.
It is of course an advantage to the supplier to get the work (I don't imagine that any work would be done at a loss) but it would also almost certainly be an advantage to the company (in this case the Swans) as well since to go elsewhere would cost more.
I think we should be careful to avoid the trap of suddenly thinking that the board are a bunch of shady wide boys (or at least I'm going to avoid it).
I personally would prefer the club to remain in its current ownership as I've said before, and I also believe that some (maybe not all) of the current shareholders are looking to 'cash in'. However, this doesn't in my mind change the achievements of the past 10 or 11 years. |
Not shady wide boys....?
OK.... | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:50 - Nov 7 with 1032 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:24 - Nov 8 by JackToff |
Presume these jobs were competitively tendered?
In a small close group what prevents the internal tender from getting inside information on the other tenders giving them a massive advantage so they can marginally undercut them to get the job?
Similar with recruitment say for the commercial role - what protections were put into place to get the best, most qualified person for the job? |
Great post. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:52 - Nov 7 with 1022 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:46 - Nov 8 by Witneyjack |
But surely, if by getting an "inside track" it saves our club money on work that needed doing, it is a good thing? As Lisa said earlier, let's not let this 'takeover' issue cloud our judgment on the Board of Directors. |
What would it take some years later to cloud our judgement?
Hmmm... | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:55 - Nov 7 with 1009 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:00 - Nov 9 by _ |
Hey course it does...
Anything can be dressed up one way or another... That's the way the world ticks over eh?! It's why I hate taking my car in for a service (the directors wouldn't have that worry)
Let's talk of the two Trust Directors...
One is now allegedly pushing for a deal to sell the club down the swanny(?) and after obtaining his shares, how? How Whitney?
And the other is just the lucky guy that just so happens gets the tender 0.01p less than the nearest competitor.
Oh, and that goes for a lot of the Landore work, the vending machines in the stadium (seen any of them?) and the legal work...
Geez, we are so lucky we've got these guys willing to do these jobs cheaper than ANYONE else...
Or are we?
More questions like the ones from ARQS and Dav please...
Let's not stop here... Time for answers please. |
Did we turn the screw to get these answers?
Or did we just not see any of this happening? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:57 - Nov 7 with 1006 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:03 - Nov 9 by Darran |
Allegedly.  |
And Teabag's response to my above post....
Seriously, what chance did we have with the Planet Swans mafia shouting us down? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:59 - Nov 7 with 995 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:13 - Nov 9 by _ |
You are making that up and I know that for a fact...
It's not the time for club apologists I dont think |
It certainly wasn't, Lisa. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:59 - Nov 7 with 995 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:15 - Nov 9 by Darran |
Oh I definitely know more than you Christopher but that's not really a lot considering you know absolutely f*ck all. |
Thanks Teabag | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 10:00 - Nov 7 with 989 views | Loyal |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:57 - Nov 7 by TheResurrection |
And Teabag's response to my above post....
Seriously, what chance did we have with the Planet Swans mafia shouting us down? |
Same thing happened when Hamer and McClure were at the club, the irregular everything was ignored. It was only when the supporters clubs and internet group joined forces that people listened. Jenkins, Morgan, Dineen weren't there until 2000. Before that the supporters in England and the internet were solitary voices. |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 10:10 - Nov 7 with 969 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:42 - Nov 9 by _ |
Phil, thanks for replying and I'm not surprised at your responses as we've had this discussion before.
I know also how you would respond if I said to you that in principal the Trust Director should not have such a strong financial stake each year through his company and the club. I know you will say that he was elected for that role and everyone has a chance of being in the mix to end up there.
And we as a supporter base have all been guilty of just getting carried away with all the success of the football club to not pay as close an attention to what's going on internally in the control rooms at SA1.
Regardless of whether it's true or not about how much Huw does or knows about the tender of the contracts to which he earned £150k in the last year, the stark reality I'm seeing and getting a bit Pissed off with is that every time we have moaned about one thing or another it's always been met with a party line, and excuse my French here, load of bollox.
And this has been the case for far too long, years and years and years and the Trust has done a lot of great work.....but... It's work that has been thrown in the direction of it to just make it look like it still has a purpose. Aww cute little Trust etc.
There are many really unhappy about what happened with our last Trust Director and especially the way it was portrayed in the film but I'm sorry, friendships aside here, it's happening all over again.
Everything is too cosy, we have not had a strong enough voice and instead all we get is our guys apologising and agreeing with every little greedy decision the club come out with for fleecing the loyal fans that they were once a part of.
Their own businesses doing so well out of the club plus their fat salaries and huge dividends, how dare they now come out with this bollox and attempt to get richer whilst selling us down the swanny.
We don't need any more apologising we need strong action, finally and not before it's too late. |
Phil.... ? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 10:12 - Nov 7 with 961 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:53 - Nov 9 by JackToff |
Thanks Phil
"Whether this investment goes through or not, any new shareholders really need us as a collective to be positive about what they are doing (and you could argue that the existing shareholders do too) because without that there are films and books that show what can happen"
I take your point however we are not paupers begging at the door we are substatial shareholders so how does the positivity work if there is a clash of interests betweeen shareholders .....
The thing about bowing to the inevitable is that accepting it's inevitability is often the very thing that actually makes it inevitable. Human potential and achievement goes beyond the bounds of contract law. If we lay down we are allowing this to happen, we are actually then bouying the share price which will go into the pockets of the current shareholders (not the club) and for which those that have bought them will want their quid pro quo out of the club. There are films and books about that too. |
Great post | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 10:23 - Nov 7 with 933 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 12:04 - Nov 9 by _ |
Oh no Phil, it didn't get overlooked, it was very gratefully received and as you saw by the attendances was very much proved to be the right decision.
I have been almost campaigning for that and getting at Cooze on the Swans Facebook page but you could argue too little too late, although thanks, a step to the good.
We, as members of the Trust need more interaction. Forget face to face meetings as we are all dotted across the land and further afar and all in full time employment. The technology is there now to do this effectively remotely. If members of the Trust come up with strong, feasible suggestions for matters that concern us as a paying public, we'd like these put to the board of directors and minutes taken as per the meeting. If things come down to a vote then lets see who's voted for what and their reasons for doing so. If the reasons hold water and make strong fiscal sense to both the club and its loyal supporters then so be it. If not, then we need a stronger voice to challenge the decision.
We are the second largest shareholder, we are the fans and we aren't getting listened to. |
We are the second largest shareholder, we are the fans and we aren't getting listened to... | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 10:52 - Nov 7 with 897 views | TheResurrection |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 15:03 - Nov 9 by MoscowJack |
I'm really worried that this is all going in the wrong direction.
Huw Cooze has been providing this service for the Club for as long as I can remember and, from what I have been told, does it for a cost that the Club could not find elsewhere. That sounds very fair to me. Personally, I would far prefer to see a Swansea-based business reap the rewards than a company based in Bristol, London or Manchester, for example. Maybe, even if he was slightly more expensive while we're in the PL as the differences probably wouldn't equal a day's wage for Bony.
At a time when we need to get behind the Trust, I think we need to be working WITH them, not against. Now is not the time, in my opinion, for this to all happen. |
How wrong he was and all because Cooze used to feed him titbits | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 10:55 - Nov 7 with 893 views | Murph75 |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 10:52 - Nov 7 by TheResurrection |
How wrong he was and all because Cooze used to feed him titbits |
Jesus, give it a rest. |  | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 21:53 - Nov 7 with 785 views | barry_island |
Some of the threads on here could give us more sequels to JTAK than any other film franchise
JTAK II - The Magic Cashpoint
JTAK III - One Night In Morgans
JTAK IV - A Place in the Sun
JTAK V - I am Jackfath / Darran / Murph / T2C / Spartacus / any other username
JTAK VI - The Director's Cut (allegedly)
JTAK VII - The Lost Weekend (many remakes) - starring The Jersey Boys own Bob Bradley
JTAK VIII - Twelve Angry Men (though it might be one with 12 aliases)
JTAK IX - The Dutch Connection / Sister (Club) Act
JTAK X - West Stand Story - a musical featuring hits such as "You Greedy Bastards - Get Out of Our Club" and "We Want Our Club Back" [Post edited 7 Nov 2016 22:03]
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| Swansea City, THE Austerity Club. |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:43 - Nov 8 with 691 views | Nookiejack |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 21:53 - Nov 7 by barry_island |
Some of the threads on here could give us more sequels to JTAK than any other film franchise
JTAK II - The Magic Cashpoint
JTAK III - One Night In Morgans
JTAK IV - A Place in the Sun
JTAK V - I am Jackfath / Darran / Murph / T2C / Spartacus / any other username
JTAK VI - The Director's Cut (allegedly)
JTAK VII - The Lost Weekend (many remakes) - starring The Jersey Boys own Bob Bradley
JTAK VIII - Twelve Angry Men (though it might be one with 12 aliases)
JTAK IX - The Dutch Connection / Sister (Club) Act
JTAK X - West Stand Story - a musical featuring hits such as "You Greedy Bastards - Get Out of Our Club" and "We Want Our Club Back" [Post edited 7 Nov 2016 22:03]
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I think it is more akin to a Shakespearean tragedy. Individuals who gain fame, glory and wealth and then are brought down by their own greed. Their reputations and family name destroyed down the generations.
Multi millionaires Huw Jenkins, Leigh Dineen and Martin Morgan can all see relegation coming closer and closer and can't stop it - when whole fan base erupts and turns them.
'You greedy bastards get out of our club' is going to be the least of their worries.
Like in Macbeth where he is not destroyed until 'Birnam wood comes to Dunsinane'.
The wood comes closer and closer (opposing army in camouflage) and Macbeth can't do anything about it to stop it. | | | |
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