| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities 22:25 - May 29 with 5692 views | LeonWasGod |
'UK Government plans to limit the number of English students going to university in Wales'
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/uk-government-plans-limit-number-18
Above highlights planned temporary response to Covid-19 from Westminster. Confirmed student applications for next year so far are well down, as students want to defer because of the uncertainty around Covid. So Westminster's planned response is to safeguard English universities by capping the number of English students allowed entry to Unis here in Wales, protecting English admissions instead. Wales is threatening to retaliate, but obviously would be the loser based on sheer numbers.
All in it together? Are we f*ck. This is beyond simple politicking, it absolutely stinks.
(Background to this is that since the funding model changed to user-funded, student registrations are absolutely key to our universities. Student fees provide the majority of university income. Unis have done a lot already to cut costs in response to a natural fall in the numbers of 18 year olds in the UK over the last couple of years, including job losses. Now they face the impact of Covid on top - the bottom line is that less student equals less income equals job losses, with unis being some of the largest employers in Wales. This is also happening at a time when their 2nd most important income stream, research funding, is shrinking due to the idiocy of Brexit. Welsh unis we're the biggest beneficiaries of EU funding in the sector in the UK. It's a perfect storm that will have long lasting negative impacts on the universities and the communities they support). |  | | |  |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:11 - May 31 with 1291 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 18:14 - May 31 by Joe_bradshaw |
How are they proposing to stop people going to the university of their choice?
Are they going to use access to finance such as student loans?
Surely people have a basic right to study wherever they wish provided they satisfy the entry requirements? |
Your last sentence isn't true, is it? Thousands of families across the UK must send their children to less desirable schools because their children do not meet the entry requirement of living within the more desirable school's catchment area.
I would assume this university idea would be achieved through limiting the availability of grants or loans to those wishing to study at Welsh universities.
The uproar this has created highlights the hypocrisy amongst those advocating for further devolution or even complete independence. Do they think England will provide tens of thousands of pounds to students in the forms of grants or favourable loans for English students to put into the economy of another country? Of course not. They'll be limited to English universities.
Funnily enough, I'm sure Scotland does something similar already, where they fund university education for Scottish students who study in Scotland, but not for those who opt to study in England or Wales. I do not see any uproar towards the SNP over this long established process however. |  |
| |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:17 - May 31 with 1287 views | Professor |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 15:52 - May 31 by PozuelosSideys |
Universities, particularly in Wales would do better to focus on quality rather than quantity of what they offer. That could be said for Universties all over the UK though tbf.
Having hundreds of different courses, many of which are pointless in a modern job market are just encouraging Universities to set up like private profit-driven enterprises. It encourages high fees, high borrowing, high student loans, high salaries for University admin (those who run the place, not the lecturers or paper admin types) etc etc. Thats not what further education is supposed to be about. Many wont like this, but its stupid that so many people go to University and stack themselves with so much debt. Its honestly not worth it and people should look at other options to develop careers for themselves. That said, for many the job market and development system is likely to be against them. Society doesnt help with the "you should do this, this and this" mentality either when the world is changing quickly. What was an ideal education to work to career path 30 years ago is not the same now.
Of course, the solution will be to encourage more wealthy Chinese and Indian etc students to come over and fill these slots instead. However, many of them will only be interested in Core STEM subjects. [Post edited 31 May 2020 15:55]
|
Welsh universities are years behind on attracting Asian students. Several (including mine) have campuses in China, Malaysia etc with guaranteed entry to final years or masters entry. They also lack an international profile. Cardiff is the only one in the Russell Group. Although Swansea is currently riding high, it has little profile outside the U.K. yet. It is a good idea, but the game may already be up- even if they return |  | | |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:21 - May 31 with 1281 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:17 - May 31 by Professor |
Welsh universities are years behind on attracting Asian students. Several (including mine) have campuses in China, Malaysia etc with guaranteed entry to final years or masters entry. They also lack an international profile. Cardiff is the only one in the Russell Group. Although Swansea is currently riding high, it has little profile outside the U.K. yet. It is a good idea, but the game may already be up- even if they return |
600 Chinese students currently registered at Swansea University. |  |
| |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:25 - May 31 with 1276 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:11 - May 31 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Your last sentence isn't true, is it? Thousands of families across the UK must send their children to less desirable schools because their children do not meet the entry requirement of living within the more desirable school's catchment area.
I would assume this university idea would be achieved through limiting the availability of grants or loans to those wishing to study at Welsh universities.
The uproar this has created highlights the hypocrisy amongst those advocating for further devolution or even complete independence. Do they think England will provide tens of thousands of pounds to students in the forms of grants or favourable loans for English students to put into the economy of another country? Of course not. They'll be limited to English universities.
Funnily enough, I'm sure Scotland does something similar already, where they fund university education for Scottish students who study in Scotland, but not for those who opt to study in England or Wales. I do not see any uproar towards the SNP over this long established process however. |
My last sentence isn't a statement, it's a question. The clue is the question mark.
How can a question be untrue?
I'll ask a slightly different question.
Surely students have a right to study at any university that offers them a place? | |
| |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:30 - May 31 with 1274 views | Professor |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 11:33 - May 30 by BarrySwan |
I see so the English are OK when they're propping up Welsh university numbers?
I suppose that I can't be the only one observing the irony of the nats natural inclination to whine about the English 'Overlords', now being replaced with a rather bizarre 'The English are starving our universities of funds by not coming here'
Unfortunately of course our higher education system has been universally damaged by the labour party's Mr Blair starting off the ludicrous 50% of our young adults will go to university nonsense.
Thus ensuring a massive increase in made up irrelevant courses and a mass degradation of university entrance standards accompanied by the current Ponzi scheme often referred to as student accommodation.
Chuck into the mix the almost obligatory " I'm taking a gap year to widen my horizons' before starting aforementioned courses plus the never ending whining about there not being enough jobs that justify a university degree ( who'd have thunk that then?) and paying a degree status wages.
Perhaps here is an opportunity to rebalance our higher education system into making sure that those who attain the highest secondary school qualifications have an uninmpeded route to university including suitable maintenance grants rather than having to pay yearly fees introduced of course by the ever caring Labour Party.
Accompanied by a massive reduction in the outrageous wages of senior university staff such as the vice chancellors for example.
And the rest of school leavers who wish, be given a full opportunity to enter vocational and technical training provided by technical colleges and leaving as engineers, nurses, mechanics etc etc or simply starting a job with in house on the job training by their new employers?
The nats really have to make their mind up they either don't want the English that they slag off so often or they welcome them.
I'm surely not the only person embarrassed by the Welsh nat "Please sir can we have some more" economic policy engendered by the incompetents down the Bay of Plenty?
[Post edited 30 May 2020 11:41]
|
You raise some fair points there, but it may be a little late to put the genie back in the lamp. There are about 140 universities in the U.K. When I went in 1986,
There were I believe 59 plus around 20 polytechnics. Student numbers were also much lower in each university. The number of students has gone up 5-10 fold. There are pluses and minuses to this. Many jobs are now graduate entry whereas in the past they may have been A level entry with day release for HNC and specialist higher qualifications. These were often of a higher standard than the equivalent degree. There is an argument that going back to a technical/vocational approach with training (which can be to the award of a degree) may well suit many better than a mediocre degree. The problem is expectation has changed. There were about 300 in my school year. Around ten of us went to University. It would be closer to a hundred now and that is what the students expect. The advantage is is does widen opportunity which if we went down to say 80
Universities it is likely entry from certain backgrounds (including the Welsh valleys like me) will become very difficult once more and imbalance gets bigger. No easy answer | | | |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:46 - May 31 with 1265 views | Professor |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:21 - May 31 by Joe_bradshaw |
600 Chinese students currently registered at Swansea University. |
We have around 5,000 here in Liverpool and 30,000 on the joint programme in country. The university is a bit bigger, but illustrates the point. Swansea is pretty dynamic though,
And unless is financially overstretched is in a good position. | | | |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 22:24 - May 31 with 1240 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:46 - May 31 by Professor |
We have around 5,000 here in Liverpool and 30,000 on the joint programme in country. The university is a bit bigger, but illustrates the point. Swansea is pretty dynamic though,
And unless is financially overstretched is in a good position. |
Thanks Prof.
I suppose the fear that these income streams may fall off a cliff immediately post Covid is driving the current government thinking. How exposed each university is in terms of percentage of overall income could be crucial. | |
| |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 22:26 - May 31 with 1236 views | exhmrc1 |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 21:46 - May 31 by Professor |
We have around 5,000 here in Liverpool and 30,000 on the joint programme in country. The university is a bit bigger, but illustrates the point. Swansea is pretty dynamic though,
And unless is financially overstretched is in a good position. |
It might well have overstretched given the amount of building on the bay. However the medical and health schools tend to be oversubscribed and are rejecting prospective students for courses like Midwifery, Nursing, Medicine and Cardiac Physiology. I dont actually know the numbers but there are very large numbers of international students on the Bay campus from all over the world studying in the Engineering and Management schools.
On a personal level it just shows how foolish some Welsh people have been believing their promises they would look after Wales and also the North of England. Less than 6 months later and they are taking actions detrimental to Welsh universities and not looking at the problems in the North when removing lock down | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 23:07 - May 31 with 1217 views | Professor |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 22:24 - May 31 by Joe_bradshaw |
Thanks Prof.
I suppose the fear that these income streams may fall off a cliff immediately post Covid is driving the current government thinking. How exposed each university is in terms of percentage of overall income could be crucial. |
It looks like we will lose about 20 million income, though as a percentage it is not that massive and we have a decent capital reserve. No pay rises and no doubt some redundancies to follow. We are planning for students to be here and receive face-to-face clinical, practical and tutorials with distancing but lectures to be all online. As sensible hybrid. In fairness the senior management have been exceptional in supporting staff and students-
No one has really lost out. We have even been given 2 days more holiday | | | |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 23:09 - May 31 with 1215 views | Professor |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 22:26 - May 31 by exhmrc1 |
It might well have overstretched given the amount of building on the bay. However the medical and health schools tend to be oversubscribed and are rejecting prospective students for courses like Midwifery, Nursing, Medicine and Cardiac Physiology. I dont actually know the numbers but there are very large numbers of international students on the Bay campus from all over the world studying in the Engineering and Management schools.
On a personal level it just shows how foolish some Welsh people have been believing their promises they would look after Wales and also the North of England. Less than 6 months later and they are taking actions detrimental to Welsh universities and not looking at the problems in the North when removing lock down |
All true, but at least Swansea has been a proper expansion. Some shocking vanity projects in the sector. Nye Bevan was right | | | |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 00:53 - Jun 1 with 1192 views | Kerouac |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 11:33 - May 30 by BarrySwan |
I see so the English are OK when they're propping up Welsh university numbers?
I suppose that I can't be the only one observing the irony of the nats natural inclination to whine about the English 'Overlords', now being replaced with a rather bizarre 'The English are starving our universities of funds by not coming here'
Unfortunately of course our higher education system has been universally damaged by the labour party's Mr Blair starting off the ludicrous 50% of our young adults will go to university nonsense.
Thus ensuring a massive increase in made up irrelevant courses and a mass degradation of university entrance standards accompanied by the current Ponzi scheme often referred to as student accommodation.
Chuck into the mix the almost obligatory " I'm taking a gap year to widen my horizons' before starting aforementioned courses plus the never ending whining about there not being enough jobs that justify a university degree ( who'd have thunk that then?) and paying a degree status wages.
Perhaps here is an opportunity to rebalance our higher education system into making sure that those who attain the highest secondary school qualifications have an uninmpeded route to university including suitable maintenance grants rather than having to pay yearly fees introduced of course by the ever caring Labour Party.
Accompanied by a massive reduction in the outrageous wages of senior university staff such as the vice chancellors for example.
And the rest of school leavers who wish, be given a full opportunity to enter vocational and technical training provided by technical colleges and leaving as engineers, nurses, mechanics etc etc or simply starting a job with in house on the job training by their new employers?
The nats really have to make their mind up they either don't want the English that they slag off so often or they welcome them.
I'm surely not the only person embarrassed by the Welsh nat "Please sir can we have some more" economic policy engendered by the incompetents down the Bay of Plenty?
[Post edited 30 May 2020 11:41]
|
Spot f*ck-ing on. |  |
| |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 18:16 - Jun 1 with 1102 views | SPboy |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 11:33 - May 30 by BarrySwan |
I see so the English are OK when they're propping up Welsh university numbers?
I suppose that I can't be the only one observing the irony of the nats natural inclination to whine about the English 'Overlords', now being replaced with a rather bizarre 'The English are starving our universities of funds by not coming here'
Unfortunately of course our higher education system has been universally damaged by the labour party's Mr Blair starting off the ludicrous 50% of our young adults will go to university nonsense.
Thus ensuring a massive increase in made up irrelevant courses and a mass degradation of university entrance standards accompanied by the current Ponzi scheme often referred to as student accommodation.
Chuck into the mix the almost obligatory " I'm taking a gap year to widen my horizons' before starting aforementioned courses plus the never ending whining about there not being enough jobs that justify a university degree ( who'd have thunk that then?) and paying a degree status wages.
Perhaps here is an opportunity to rebalance our higher education system into making sure that those who attain the highest secondary school qualifications have an uninmpeded route to university including suitable maintenance grants rather than having to pay yearly fees introduced of course by the ever caring Labour Party.
Accompanied by a massive reduction in the outrageous wages of senior university staff such as the vice chancellors for example.
And the rest of school leavers who wish, be given a full opportunity to enter vocational and technical training provided by technical colleges and leaving as engineers, nurses, mechanics etc etc or simply starting a job with in house on the job training by their new employers?
The nats really have to make their mind up they either don't want the English that they slag off so often or they welcome them.
I'm surely not the only person embarrassed by the Welsh nat "Please sir can we have some more" economic policy engendered by the incompetents down the Bay of Plenty?
[Post edited 30 May 2020 11:41]
|
Indeed you are not alone. Sadly we are in the minority on this forum. |  | | |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 19:36 - Jun 1 with 1083 views | LeonWasGod |
| Westminster planning to hamstring Welsh Universities on 18:14 - May 31 by Joe_bradshaw |
How are they proposing to stop people going to the university of their choice?
Are they going to use access to finance such as student loans?
Surely people have a basic right to study wherever they wish provided they satisfy the entry requirements? |
Sorry, missed this. I'm not entirely sure on how they will implement the cap. All the metrics around student applications and entries are recorded and reported back so they could in theory impose physical caps directly on the unis. I suspect it will be that rather than something through the loan system.
There are two main problem about all thi. First, tertiary education is a devolved issue. The cap is an English initiative then imposed on the provinces, overstepping the remit of England. Second, the cap deprives ALL universities in the UK of the opportunity to significantly increase home undergraduate numbers (bums on seats = jobs). At a time when overseas students are likely to be in shorter supply and university income falling as a result.
The second might not be such a big issue, as it's unrealistic to think that there will be more students want to go to uni next year (a lot are wanting to defer because of Covid. The aim of this (in England) is to balance competition and stop the Russell Group poaching from the lower pool. This might be effective at achieving that. Welsh Uni's were not aware that the numbers coming here from England would be capped though. Things may yet change, as it hasn't been formally announced. [Post edited 1 Jun 2020 20:06]
| | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
