| Ollys post match comments 16:22 - May 7 with 8624 views | stuabd |
“We just need to shrug this one off quickly and start focusing on next season because this will be a really important transfer window for us and it is vital we bring the right people in.”
I thought about a month ago we had the right people. All pulling in the right direction etc. Playing for the club. I guess he means the right people are not the right players so he wants the right people that are also the right players. Right?
I think we probably need a couple but there are some decent players at the club. As has been said, probably best to learn to walk first and get a settled pattern of play before we start trying out new formations each week. |  | | |  |
| Ollys post match comments on 22:22 - May 7 with 2083 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Ollys post match comments on 17:41 - May 7 by corse |
He is deluted. |
He needs to 'concentrate' on sorting that out then. |  | | |
| Ollys post match comments on 22:26 - May 7 with 2068 views | VancouverHoop |
If this is Holloway sending signals then they should be bounced back, pronto. I'd be very surprised – and disappointed – if Hoos and Ferdinand allowed another round of wholesale spending. We have at least seven or eight players who can do the job in this league, and two or three good-looking youngsters who can be blooded slowly. Yes a CD and striker are needed but, assuming no one unexpected leaves, that's about it. |  | | |
| Ollys post match comments on 22:57 - May 7 with 2002 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Ollys post match comments on 20:53 - May 7 by DejR_vu |
Well, I suspect if you do find it there won't be any reference to anticipating two record sequences of defeats.
I'm firmly of the view that the problem here is not the constant changing of managers, it's constantly making the wrong appointments. Stability is important, and obviously preferable to instability, but it's not in itself a silver bullet. Leeds have done pretty well this year all things considered, Hull are in the Prem and making a real go of staying there, Watford chopped and changed all the time whilst getting promoted and staying there. We don't have stability, but you don't stick with a dud just to get it.
The biggest problem is that we can't trust the people that make the appointments to get it right, except that even a broken clock is right twice a day. Just by the simple law of averages they might just stumble on something one day. So realistically, it comes down to a choice of keeping a poor manager, or making the change in hope rather than expectation. But one thing's for sure, Holloway's record since being re-appointed stinks. |
I don't really disagree with any of that, but there is a fundamental problem here.
We didn't appoint Holloway because he's obviously a great manager or because the people in charge had a rush of nostalgia to the head. We did because no-one else with any credibility at all wants the f*cking job. The fact that Zola is cited up-thread gives you an idea of the level of the alternatives to Holloway.
Its not a matter of continually playing stick and twist until one of them pays off, playing the percentage game. Most appointments we can make will be cr*p (and have been cr*p - look at them since Warnock, come to that look at them before Warnock and tell me which one wasn't) because anyone coming in who is not a mentalist will know that there is no money, limited potential given size of ground and crowds, unrealistic expectations from the fans, and a history of unhappy dressing rooms .
You are assuming that this is as bad as we get and by the law of averages we will sooner or later we will get someone decent, but if we are a bad bet for managers most applicants will be crap and by the law of averages we are sooner going to get someone who will take us down.
It's no longer good enough to say "he's rubbish, get rid, there must be someone better." There doesn't have to be someone better, it could be someone worse. We got lucky with Warnock - just when most sensible managers wouldn't touch us with a bargepole Palace's owners went mad. If something similar happens then fine. Otherwise we are stuck with Holloway or with someone just as poor. Difference is that someone new will demand more money to change the squad yet again than Holloway can get away with demanding. | | | |
| Ollys post match comments on 23:19 - May 7 with 1955 views | DannytheR |
| Ollys post match comments on 22:57 - May 7 by CiderwithRsie |
I don't really disagree with any of that, but there is a fundamental problem here.
We didn't appoint Holloway because he's obviously a great manager or because the people in charge had a rush of nostalgia to the head. We did because no-one else with any credibility at all wants the f*cking job. The fact that Zola is cited up-thread gives you an idea of the level of the alternatives to Holloway.
Its not a matter of continually playing stick and twist until one of them pays off, playing the percentage game. Most appointments we can make will be cr*p (and have been cr*p - look at them since Warnock, come to that look at them before Warnock and tell me which one wasn't) because anyone coming in who is not a mentalist will know that there is no money, limited potential given size of ground and crowds, unrealistic expectations from the fans, and a history of unhappy dressing rooms .
You are assuming that this is as bad as we get and by the law of averages we will sooner or later we will get someone decent, but if we are a bad bet for managers most applicants will be crap and by the law of averages we are sooner going to get someone who will take us down.
It's no longer good enough to say "he's rubbish, get rid, there must be someone better." There doesn't have to be someone better, it could be someone worse. We got lucky with Warnock - just when most sensible managers wouldn't touch us with a bargepole Palace's owners went mad. If something similar happens then fine. Otherwise we are stuck with Holloway or with someone just as poor. Difference is that someone new will demand more money to change the squad yet again than Holloway can get away with demanding. |
I think you're hugely over-estimating how choosy most football managers are, or can afford to be, given how intensely competitive their profession is. When you bear in mind how many of them end up managing teams in Azerbaijan or rural Thailand, or just become long-term unemployed, a job at a Championship club in London with a decent playing budget and sensible colleagues as CEO and DOF is hardly some kind of untouchable poisoned chalice.
Garry Monk is at a club madder than ours, David Wagner and Dean Smith at ones smaller than ours. If we wanted to take a punt, Michael O'Neill has just taken a country with a population a fraction of the size of London to a major international tournament, and as mentioned up the thread, Derek McInnes has a genuinely impressive record in Scotland (beating Warburton's Rangers by some distance).
As it stands, unless we re-hire Paul Hart, we'll have to go some to find a worse bet than IH, who all the available evidence suggests is going to absolutely wreck us next season. And I say that as someone with a lot of fondness for him. [Post edited 7 May 2017 23:31]
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| Ollys post match comments on 23:28 - May 7 with 1921 views | Northernr |
Already making noises about another huge upheaval this transfer window, having torn the squad up and signed half a dozen players in January already. |  | | |
| Ollys post match comments on 23:40 - May 7 with 1880 views | PunteR |
| Ollys post match comments on 23:28 - May 7 by Northernr |
Already making noises about another huge upheaval this transfer window, having torn the squad up and signed half a dozen players in January already. |
To be fair though we probably need to.
If he goes then thats what will happen anyway.. |  |
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| Ollys post match comments on 00:04 - May 8 with 1828 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Ollys post match comments on 22:57 - May 7 by CiderwithRsie |
I don't really disagree with any of that, but there is a fundamental problem here.
We didn't appoint Holloway because he's obviously a great manager or because the people in charge had a rush of nostalgia to the head. We did because no-one else with any credibility at all wants the f*cking job. The fact that Zola is cited up-thread gives you an idea of the level of the alternatives to Holloway.
Its not a matter of continually playing stick and twist until one of them pays off, playing the percentage game. Most appointments we can make will be cr*p (and have been cr*p - look at them since Warnock, come to that look at them before Warnock and tell me which one wasn't) because anyone coming in who is not a mentalist will know that there is no money, limited potential given size of ground and crowds, unrealistic expectations from the fans, and a history of unhappy dressing rooms .
You are assuming that this is as bad as we get and by the law of averages we will sooner or later we will get someone decent, but if we are a bad bet for managers most applicants will be crap and by the law of averages we are sooner going to get someone who will take us down.
It's no longer good enough to say "he's rubbish, get rid, there must be someone better." There doesn't have to be someone better, it could be someone worse. We got lucky with Warnock - just when most sensible managers wouldn't touch us with a bargepole Palace's owners went mad. If something similar happens then fine. Otherwise we are stuck with Holloway or with someone just as poor. Difference is that someone new will demand more money to change the squad yet again than Holloway can get away with demanding. |
Olly's 1.1 points per game over a whole season would have seen us finishing behind relegated Blackburn. His performance just isn't good enough. The miniscule difference between us and Blackburn is the extra couple of points Hasselbaink gave us.
Why ask for stability when we are talking about an incumbent who has already shown that he will most likely relegate us? |  |
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| Ollys post match comments on 00:12 - May 8 with 1810 views | BromleyHoop |
| Ollys post match comments on 00:04 - May 8 by isawqpratwcity |
Olly's 1.1 points per game over a whole season would have seen us finishing behind relegated Blackburn. His performance just isn't good enough. The miniscule difference between us and Blackburn is the extra couple of points Hasselbaink gave us.
Why ask for stability when we are talking about an incumbent who has already shown that he will most likely relegate us? |
In fact with 12 points from the first 18 on offer you could argue that JFHs tough pre season was what saved us! |  |
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| Ollys post match comments on 00:53 - May 8 with 1781 views | smegma |
| Ollys post match comments on 16:38 - May 7 by Nov77 |
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Is summer in January ???
Only in the Southern Hemisphere of course. | | | |
| Ollys post match comments on 01:18 - May 8 with 1767 views | smegma |
| Ollys post match comments on 00:04 - May 8 by isawqpratwcity |
Olly's 1.1 points per game over a whole season would have seen us finishing behind relegated Blackburn. His performance just isn't good enough. The miniscule difference between us and Blackburn is the extra couple of points Hasselbaink gave us.
Why ask for stability when we are talking about an incumbent who has already shown that he will most likely relegate us? |
A great stat revealed on the podcast recently, whether it's true I don't know but it was revealed we've had a 6 game losing streak 5 times in 135 years. We've had 2 of those in 6 months.
When you sack a manager you usually bring in a replacement who is better than the previous incumbent. When JFH left , we were 17th. We finished 18th although we briefly had a nosebleed when we went 13th after Ollies first game when we won against a team who played 89 minutes with 10 men. [Post edited 8 May 2017 1:37]
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| Ollys post match comments on 01:24 - May 8 with 1761 views | Boston |
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| Ollys post match comments on 09:26 - May 8 with 1570 views | Rangersw12 |
The board need to make a decision either sack him now or just ride it out and give him another season
There will be no point of sacking him in October/November as you just pss away the season like we have the last few | | | |
| Ollys post match comments on 09:34 - May 8 with 1562 views | ichbinnaughty |
| Ollys post match comments on 23:28 - May 7 by Northernr |
Already making noises about another huge upheaval this transfer window, having torn the squad up and signed half a dozen players in January already. |
I think i might be (almost) alone in thinking that our playing squad is not-far-away from being pretty decent WITHOUT the need for wholesale changes.
It's the management and coaching that I don't think is good enough.
Smithies in goal needs no further explanation.
A settled centre back partnership of Chief and Hall (or Chief and someone new) is good enough. NEVER ever play Chief at RB again. It unsettles him, and he doesn't like being unsettled. We need +1 here. Lynch can hang around as 4th choice. Don't rate him, but he's good enough to have in reserve reserve.
Furlong is one of two RBs that is definitely good enough. Bomb Perch out - fookin liability; so need +1 to the squad here.
Same on the other side = Bidwell is good enough; bomb Robinson out = fitness record is just not sustainable to merit space on our wage bill. So need +1 here too.
Central midfield is well covered. With good coaching, I believe there's a decent player in Goss. Cousins returning will be like a new signing. When he can get fully fit and stay fully fit, I wouldn't surprised to see the team built around him. Luongo, Manning, Freeman are all options. Hall can step forward into a defensive role, we know that. Borysciuk always looks quite handy. Doughty still can't be ruled out as not quite good enough.
Very well covered here.
On the wings, we have Yeni (most certainly good enough - and I'm expecting a better, more settled contribution from him); Pawel - industrious and definitely good enough; Mackie - hmmmm; Shodipo = could be the making of the lad; Petrasso = like Doughty, could be an option. He's quick as fook. Not sure what will happen with LuaLua - but I'd be happy to see him sign on, seeing as he knows the club now.
Up front, I like Sylla - I think he's got a knack for getting goals. If he started every week, he would have got +15, maybe even +20. A different/better manager might get the best out of him.
Smith = I like too. Honest, hardworking, team player, big, strong, probably horrible to play against. Keep him.
Washington = probably more to come from him, plus we've invested over a season in him now, so definitely keep.
We need +1 striker.
Yes, Mackie might be considered as an option here; but I think we could take a chance on a hot prospect from the lower leagues. Or Joe Garner up at Rangers (who has always looked half decent to me). Or the Gallacher lad from Southampton who was at Blackburn this season.
Minimal ovehaul (1 x RB, 1 x LB, 1 x CB, 1 x ST). There's the nucleus of a decent squad in place already, settled/consistency just waiting to be achieved, hardworking, predominantly UK-based players.
A willing chairman (Ruben) and accomplice (uncle Tone) = yes, yes, the knives are out for them, but they are certainly not seemingly out to bleed the club dry like those at Blackburn, Forest, Sunderland, Hull etc.
A superb CEO by all accounts.
A DoF whom I trust has the very best intentions for the club; and who no doubt helped bring Penrice in to improve scouting.
So, for me, the area that has question marks for me is the management & coaching; as much as I hold both Ollie and Birch with fondness. No room for sentiment here.
Get the management/coaching right, and I believe we have the capability to be very very competitive. |  | | |
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