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If I'm totally honest, I'm not seeing any difference between this play under Stockdale, and BBM's style. This was a game where Rochdale were tactically outclassed by a non leaguer. Notts were better in possession, they had much more pace in their passes, and were much better in tight spaces and playing through the lines. Why have players like Odoh been stiffled in the way they play, because he's no where near as dynamic as he used to look.
Rochdale haven't had an actual manager now since Hill left, they need to stop hiring in these inexperienced coaches and making the team into this sort of development team. There needs to be an actual manager who can tactically adjust when needs be, not someone who comes in with this philosophy of how they play the game, but cant change things as they go. This is League 2, you don't get to have a philosophy. All I see is sideways passing and zero movement off the ball, and this comes from managers instructions, you have to be smart enough to change the game when your style is failing. This is boring and stiffling football that is easily found out. I can't see any improvement, and unless a proper manager comes in, it won't change.
I wouldn’t get too concerned about one result against lower league opposition. Keith Hill had some of the football club’s worst results in its history in this competition while we were flying. We’re making steady progress in the league and that’s ok with me.
I wouldn’t get too concerned about one result against lower league opposition. Keith Hill had some of the football club’s worst results in its history in this competition while we were flying. We’re making steady progress in the league and that’s ok with me.
It’s not just one game though is it, let’s be honest.
We’ve had some brilliant results away from home and a couple of really slutchy home wins that are massively papering over some glaring cracks.
I wouldn’t get too concerned about one result against lower league opposition. Keith Hill had some of the football club’s worst results in its history in this competition while we were flying. We’re making steady progress in the league and that’s ok with me.
Personally I don't see much progress on the pitch. It's a lower league than last year so results will be better, but I don't see a lot of on field development tbh.
We have only had two managers since Hill was sacked. He himself was untried when he first took the reins . Going back we haven’t much success with experienced managers who didn’t get their break at Dale. Coleman just didn’t work out. Buckley was poor, but Hollins was ok. I have never been a fan of appointing a manager who has already been sacked a few times in their career. The likes of Cottrill, Evans and Parkinson have been through so many clubs. I just don’t get it how they keep getting work given their records in recent times.
Why keep persisting with these untried coaches, who have never managed, never had to change a game midway through, never had to deal with day to day player management. But they read a few coaching manuals, can talk a good game, but ultimately, the majority of them, aren't cut out for it. For the amount of money wasted hiring and firing these trainees, you could get in someone who actually has a managerial track record. This is not a development club, but it appears to be happy going through the trial stages. There is a fear, and that needs to change.
We have only had two managers since Hill was sacked. He himself was untried when he first took the reins . Going back we haven’t much success with experienced managers who didn’t get their break at Dale. Coleman just didn’t work out. Buckley was poor, but Hollins was ok. I have never been a fan of appointing a manager who has already been sacked a few times in their career. The likes of Cottrill, Evans and Parkinson have been through so many clubs. I just don’t get it how they keep getting work given their records in recent times.
So take a chance with some from non league. I'm not advocating giving these sorts of failures work. But take a chance with someone lower down, who is eager to impress and on his football management journey. .
Why keep persisting with these untried coaches, who have never managed, never had to change a game midway through, never had to deal with day to day player management. But they read a few coaching manuals, can talk a good game, but ultimately, the majority of them, aren't cut out for it. For the amount of money wasted hiring and firing these trainees, you could get in someone who actually has a managerial track record. This is not a development club, but it appears to be happy going through the trial stages. There is a fear, and that needs to change.
Four of the current top five teams in League Two all have managers/coaches with much less experience in the game than Stockdale.
[Post edited 7 Nov 2021 18:27]
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
Why keep persisting with these untried coaches, who have never managed, never had to change a game midway through, never had to deal with day to day player management. But they read a few coaching manuals, can talk a good game, but ultimately, the majority of them, aren't cut out for it. For the amount of money wasted hiring and firing these trainees, you could get in someone who actually has a managerial track record. This is not a development club, but it appears to be happy going through the trial stages. There is a fear, and that needs to change.
Genuine question, and I'm not looking to pick at you or start an argument...
If it wasn't Stockdale in summer, who would you have wanted?
Just for a minute lets ignore the absolute clusterfook that our old CEO & board left us in...
Who would you have wanted who has a managerial track record? Remembering who we are, our budget limitations etc, who would've been a better (and realistic) appointment?
In my opinion, we'll always either end up taking a shot on a non league manager (& I mean much lower leagues as a lot of conference teams will pay more than we can), a manager who has failed and been sacked elsewhere (probably more than once), or a young up and coming coach at the start of his / her career with a point to prove and an appetite to succeed.
Again in my opinion, Dorsett & Graham are the 2 really iffy signings Stockdale has made - 8/10 seem genuinely decent and I'd take an 80% positive recruitment rate in the space of a few weeks any day of the week. Yes its frustrating at the minute as we are so inconsistent, but I think deep down we all knew that would be the case this season and would've accepted a season of consolidation before going again at proper success after Xmas and into 2022/2023.
& again - I write all of the above without layering on the additional off the field challenges we have had to face all summer / season too.
So take a chance with some from non league. I'm not advocating giving these sorts of failures work. But take a chance with someone lower down, who is eager to impress and on his football management journey. .
So someone with no EFL experience?
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
Genuine question, and I'm not looking to pick at you or start an argument...
If it wasn't Stockdale in summer, who would you have wanted?
Just for a minute lets ignore the absolute clusterfook that our old CEO & board left us in...
Who would you have wanted who has a managerial track record? Remembering who we are, our budget limitations etc, who would've been a better (and realistic) appointment?
In my opinion, we'll always either end up taking a shot on a non league manager (& I mean much lower leagues as a lot of conference teams will pay more than we can), a manager who has failed and been sacked elsewhere (probably more than once), or a young up and coming coach at the start of his / her career with a point to prove and an appetite to succeed.
Again in my opinion, Dorsett & Graham are the 2 really iffy signings Stockdale has made - 8/10 seem genuinely decent and I'd take an 80% positive recruitment rate in the space of a few weeks any day of the week. Yes its frustrating at the minute as we are so inconsistent, but I think deep down we all knew that would be the case this season and would've accepted a season of consolidation before going again at proper success after Xmas and into 2022/2023.
& again - I write all of the above without layering on the additional off the field challenges we have had to face all summer / season too.
Excellently put.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
Genuine question, and I'm not looking to pick at you or start an argument...
If it wasn't Stockdale in summer, who would you have wanted?
Just for a minute lets ignore the absolute clusterfook that our old CEO & board left us in...
Who would you have wanted who has a managerial track record? Remembering who we are, our budget limitations etc, who would've been a better (and realistic) appointment?
In my opinion, we'll always either end up taking a shot on a non league manager (& I mean much lower leagues as a lot of conference teams will pay more than we can), a manager who has failed and been sacked elsewhere (probably more than once), or a young up and coming coach at the start of his / her career with a point to prove and an appetite to succeed.
Again in my opinion, Dorsett & Graham are the 2 really iffy signings Stockdale has made - 8/10 seem genuinely decent and I'd take an 80% positive recruitment rate in the space of a few weeks any day of the week. Yes its frustrating at the minute as we are so inconsistent, but I think deep down we all knew that would be the case this season and would've accepted a season of consolidation before going again at proper success after Xmas and into 2022/2023.
& again - I write all of the above without layering on the additional off the field challenges we have had to face all summer / season too.
I agree with everything you have said. We will always be more successful taking a punt on someone unknown than joining in the managerial merry go round.
However… and it’s a big however….
3 months in & Stockdale isn’t learning from his mistakes. This concerns me greatly.
You make reference to the points of Graham & Dorsett… Yet they play EVERY game. Why?
We persist with a formation that does not suit us nor generate sufficient results at home. Why?
We have absolutely no formational flexibility or idea of how to adapt during a game to match an opposition. Only one man can explain this deficiency.
I’m not Stockdale out, but he promised us more than he is currently delivering for me.
Removing the off-field issues & hastily assembled squad our current issues lie at the door of the manager for me.
Where do you think the likes of the Crowley brothers started off? There are lots of up and coming managers in the non league who would jump at the chance to get a job like Dale. This is a club who is well respected amongst the lower leagues, so take a chance with someone who is an actual manager and who wants to impress. This whole argument or the budget etc is just a defeatist attitude and explains why the club has been low down for so many years. Take a chance and see where it gets you.
Where do you think the likes of the Crowley brothers started off? There are lots of up and coming managers in the non league who would jump at the chance to get a job like Dale. This is a club who is well respected amongst the lower leagues, so take a chance with someone who is an actual manager and who wants to impress. This whole argument or the budget etc is just a defeatist attitude and explains why the club has been low down for so many years. Take a chance and see where it gets you.
We took a chance on Brian Barry-Murphy and look where that got us!
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
I agree with everything you have said. We will always be more successful taking a punt on someone unknown than joining in the managerial merry go round.
However… and it’s a big however….
3 months in & Stockdale isn’t learning from his mistakes. This concerns me greatly.
You make reference to the points of Graham & Dorsett… Yet they play EVERY game. Why?
We persist with a formation that does not suit us nor generate sufficient results at home. Why?
We have absolutely no formational flexibility or idea of how to adapt during a game to match an opposition. Only one man can explain this deficiency.
I’m not Stockdale out, but he promised us more than he is currently delivering for me.
Removing the off-field issues & hastily assembled squad our current issues lie at the door of the manager for me.
"Removing the off-field issues & hastily assembled squad"
Isn't that the actual issue?
BBM left on 30th June 2021. Robbie Stockdale appointed on 10th July 2021.
BBM and the ex-CEO had produced the retained list and offered new deals. Then BBM disappeared to coach City's kids.
Stockdale had 4 weeks to prepare a group of players for Harrogate (a) and put a squad together in weeks rather than the months than you usually have.
I think its much too early to try make any form of judgement. Only 9 home games, 7 League and 2 Papa Johns.
BBM after all was knocked out by Stockport at home this time and stage last year. And he was then given a secret contract extension!
Stay in the hat - that's all that matters.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
"Removing the off-field issues & hastily assembled squad"
Isn't that the actual issue?
BBM left on 30th June 2021. Robbie Stockdale appointed on 10th July 2021.
BBM and the ex-CEO had produced the retained list and offered new deals. Then BBM disappeared to coach City's kids.
Stockdale had 4 weeks to prepare a group of players for Harrogate (a) and put a squad together in weeks rather than the months than you usually have.
I think its much too early to try make any form of judgement. Only 9 home games, 7 League and 2 Papa Johns.
BBM after all was knocked out by Stockport at home this time and stage last year. And he was then given a secret contract extension!
Stay in the hat - that's all that matters.
No. That isn’t the issue. That’s an excuse to avoid the issue.
One issue is we persist with five at the back with two of the worst centre halves many of us have witnessed wearing the Dale badge.
Another issue is that Stockdale will not alter formation during games even when we are clearly being outplayed.
Another issue is that Stockdale made one substitution today when we were doing absolutely nothing.
Why is Sam Graham being played every game when he is clearly low on confidence and out of his depth?
Why was Keohane acres away from their winger in that second half allowing him to create numerous chances, yet not once did our manager do anything to address this.
Nothing I have mentioned above has anything remotely to do with the summer, just Stockdale’s present deficiencies as our manager.
It would be easier to forgive if any of the above were a one off, but it’s week in week out!
I think it’s time for the excuses to be put to one side and questions starting to be asked. For the good of Stockdale and the good of the club
So that's an excuse to just give up looking? And anyway BBM wasn't a manager.
I wouldn't waste too much time on this CD
RS is here for at least one full season and hopefully longer, giving him time to build on what he's started from a very low base
We'd have to be struggling very badly in the league (imminent threat of dropping out) for any other option to apply. We're not, but there remains a great deal of work to be done with this squad
Making out that there's young "managers" just waiting in the wings is false. RS has the full support of the Board and the chances of them panicking and changing the manager for the foreseeable future is ZERO
They didn't panic when faced with legal and in some cases physical threats; they're cut from better cloth than to do so at the behest of a few disgruntled fans. I agree, home entertainment has been in short supply so far, but there's clearly confidence issues for a number of our younger players that RS will be working on diligently. These things don't change overnight
It may well be his judgement that changing the system will only confuse them further at this stage. We've half a dozen players who just might not yet be able to take that kind of adaptability on board
We need to strengthen during the January window, and that will then give us a much clearer idea of where we're heading. For now, frustrating as it is, they need our support
Where do you think the likes of the Crowley brothers started off? There are lots of up and coming managers in the non league who would jump at the chance to get a job like Dale. This is a club who is well respected amongst the lower leagues, so take a chance with someone who is an actual manager and who wants to impress. This whole argument or the budget etc is just a defeatist attitude and explains why the club has been low down for so many years. Take a chance and see where it gets you.
How do people like Stockdale become "actual managers"?
The budget argument has never been more relevant than this season, given what has gone on in the last six months.
I agree with 1907 that there are still many questions to be answered (even though they don't get asked), but you're hugely over-reacting after a disappointing day.
The Cowley brothers are a very notable exception and they only got their chance in the EFL after actually bringing Lincoln up and succeeding at this level with them.
How many other managers are poached from non-league football and then succeed in the league? I bet it's not many.
Did you think along the same lines when we appointed that Hill bloke, by the way?
[Post edited 7 Nov 2021 19:18]
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
So that's an excuse to just give up looking? And anyway BBM wasn't a manager.
A different board and chairman appointed Stockdale.
How do you know who they had or hadn't looked at before appointing him? Maybe we should have brought in someone like John McGreal, especially given his Ipswich connections...
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
I agree with everything you have said. We will always be more successful taking a punt on someone unknown than joining in the managerial merry go round.
However… and it’s a big however….
3 months in & Stockdale isn’t learning from his mistakes. This concerns me greatly.
You make reference to the points of Graham & Dorsett… Yet they play EVERY game. Why?
We persist with a formation that does not suit us nor generate sufficient results at home. Why?
We have absolutely no formational flexibility or idea of how to adapt during a game to match an opposition. Only one man can explain this deficiency.
I’m not Stockdale out, but he promised us more than he is currently delivering for me.
Removing the off-field issues & hastily assembled squad our current issues lie at the door of the manager for me.
'agree with everything you have said. We will always be more successful taking a punt on someone unknown than joining in the managerial merry go round.
However… and it’s a big however….
3 months in & Stockdale isn’t learning from his mistakes. This concerns me greatly.
You make reference to the points of Graham & Dorsett… Yet they play EVERY game. Why? Jim has a broken toe (not withstanding the fact most people had written him off as finished before the season)... Taylor looks a prospect but struggled on Tuesday... with the personnel we have I think if we were to drop both Graham & Dorsett we would have to change to a flat back 4, probably meaning dropping O'Keeffe and can you imagine the uproar if we dropped one of our top 2 or 3 players season to date?
We persist with a formation that does not suit us nor generate sufficient results at home. Why? I think this was answered further up, but if the players are short on experience / confidence, moving to a new and unfamiliar system could be seen as a bigger risk than its worth
We have absolutely no formational flexibility or idea of how to adapt during a game to match an opposition. Only one man can explain this deficiency. same as above
I’m not Stockdale out, but he promised us more than he is currently delivering for me. I actually agree that we're not where he said we would be... but I also think we will get there with a bit of shape shifting in Jan. I guess as a club we aren't quite as stable as he thought we may be, so six of one and half a dozen of the other. he doesn't really reference the off field stuff, but his interview after northampton away showed he was clearly aware of it and its impact
Removing the off-field issues & hastily assembled squad our current issues lie at the door of the manager for me. I also agree here that ultimately our league and cup performance lies with him - but looking holistically at our situation he has been dealt a difficult hand for his first manager role... so taking that into account if we were writing a school report 1/3 of the season down I think he'd probably be scoring a B-. We'll know more about his (& our) mid to long term potential by the end of Jan
I've also not seen anyone come up with a realistic, viable alternative to his appointment yet. I's be genuinely keen to hear of any.
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