| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 15:08 - Dec 29 with 5474 views | foreverhopefulDale |
He is right.
About time we had another lockdown with only essential food stores open, and work places only, to get the virus under control. Certainly stupid to open schools up again, especially the super spreading upper schools. Maybe keep the primary schools open. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 15:18]
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 15:22 - Dec 29 with 5422 views | James1980 |
How do you interpret what he is saying? Postpone the season till we have the situation under control or cancel it and start again in August? |  |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 15:23 - Dec 29 with 5409 views | scarrow |
I take his points on board but I'm for carrying on. The clubs are keeping it as safe as possible. I'm surprised there hasn't been more cancellations to be honest. I don't think they'll be a lockdown but I could see the country being at tier 4 which has some factors of it. |  |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 15:44 - Dec 29 with 5381 views | ChaffRAFC |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 15:23 - Dec 29 by scarrow |
I take his points on board but I'm for carrying on. The clubs are keeping it as safe as possible. I'm surprised there hasn't been more cancellations to be honest. I don't think they'll be a lockdown but I could see the country being at tier 4 which has some factors of it. |
But is Tier 4 working for those places in it? Do we wait to see the effects of the post Xmas inevitable increase before acting? There's a tier review tomorrow and I suspect there is enough evidence and scientific advise to put us all into a national lockdown but I strongly suspect more places will end up in tier 4 while those lucky enough to be in tier 2, will move up to tier 3 but then the cases will continue to rise until we end up in a national Lockdown or Tier 5 in the coming weeks.
Do you persist with the tier system in the hope it combats this huge increase or do you throw down the anchor and stick everyone in a national lockdown when most are probably expecting it anyway?
For me, the stopping of football will be a huge downer on me and no doubt much of the population because it will be feel like we're back where we were in March and things don't seem to be getting better. That said, it feels inevitable that football will stop for a period of time and with the case numbers, it's hard to argue that it wouldn't be a right call.
The vaccines cannot come quick enough, put whatever resources we can possibly find into getting the vaccines rolled out quicker than it is being! |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 15:48 - Dec 29 with 5366 views | Dalenet |
I take his points seriously. Players have a right to a covid safe workplace as all staff in the UK do. The club can do all it can, but players can't socially distance and they do 'mingle' when they play a game. They are expected to carry on regardless of how safe they feel. Whilst the same is true of some key workers because they are key to keeping the country running, the same can't be true for sport.
Whilst I would miss it enormously, a break until mid February to see whether they can get the R rate back below one might be a good idea.
Talking to a Premiership footballer who recently had covid - it impacted him more than he expected and he is struggling to get match fit. What's more his club doctor has become seriously ill and was hospitalised. That doesn't seem like an acceptable risk to me. | | | |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:00 - Dec 29 with 5320 views | scarrow |
They'll tier 4 rather than lockdown id expect. Is anyone actually surprised about this spike? I for one aren't. | |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:24 - Dec 29 with 5254 views | mightydale |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 15:08 - Dec 29 by foreverhopefulDale |
He is right.
About time we had another lockdown with only essential food stores open, and work places only, to get the virus under control. Certainly stupid to open schools up again, especially the super spreading upper schools. Maybe keep the primary schools open. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 15:18]
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How do you control a virus ????
Over the last seven days, positive tests for COVID-19 have risen by 25.7%. However, tests conducted has increased by 25.6%, (this is what the government or the news papers won't tell you).
Agree with Chaff sooner the vaccine is rolled out the better. I personally think the government got till Easter to open things up/ have us back to so called normality,or I'll think we'll see protest and riots on the same level as the poll tax riots. |  |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:27 - Dec 29 with 5251 views | ChaffRAFC |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:24 - Dec 29 by mightydale |
How do you control a virus ????
Over the last seven days, positive tests for COVID-19 have risen by 25.7%. However, tests conducted has increased by 25.6%, (this is what the government or the news papers won't tell you).
Agree with Chaff sooner the vaccine is rolled out the better. I personally think the government got till Easter to open things up/ have us back to so called normality,or I'll think we'll see protest and riots on the same level as the poll tax riots. |
Given that Boris and Hancock have both, repeatedly, said that Easter is the turning point and that things will be very different by then, if they're not, you may well be right. | |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:41 - Dec 29 with 5212 views | D_Alien |
The AstraZeneca vaccine - presuming it's approved within the next few days - will become a game changer
People can make claims about riots all they like, but the current option (BionTech) has storage issues which require very careful management, plus our current stock via the initial batches delivered is also a limitation
The AstraZeneca vaccine will have no such issues, and we'll have enough people protected in those groups that are at risk of serious illness or worse in a relatively short timeframe; certainly by Easter if not before
In the meantime, i'm reluctantly coming round to the conclusion that it'd be better to suspend 2020/21 until about the beginning of March. From a sporting point of view, having some teams falling several games behind others could skew outcomes. I suspect Dale would be one of those who'd fare the worst and it could well be that today's intervention by the Dale doc is at the request of the club. It's unlikely he'd be making pronouncements without at least consulting his employer first, although he might be entitled to from an independent medical viewpoint
Also in the meantime, making "there'll be riots" claims helps no-one
[Post edited 29 Dec 2020 16:44]
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:42 - Dec 29 with 5218 views | isitme |
I've seen those figures as well, lots of people having a test 'just to be sure' before Christmas. The main problem is that both tests do not do what we need them to do, which is tell us if someone actually has Covid and is infectious. This mass testing of people without symptoms is a waste of time.
Another major problem is hospital acquired infections. Go in for one thing and because you are tested so much you end up testing positive and there you go you are another 'Covid patient', even though you did not get admitted for it.
What I would like to know is:
1. What percentage of 'covid patients' were actually admitted for Covid?
2. What percentage of total beds are taken up with people actually admitted due to Covid and how does this compare to usual levels of admissions for respiratory related infections for this time of year?
The sooner the Oxford vaccine gets approved and administered the better. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 16:43]
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:50 - Dec 29 with 5182 views | 1949er |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 15:44 - Dec 29 by ChaffRAFC |
But is Tier 4 working for those places in it? Do we wait to see the effects of the post Xmas inevitable increase before acting? There's a tier review tomorrow and I suspect there is enough evidence and scientific advise to put us all into a national lockdown but I strongly suspect more places will end up in tier 4 while those lucky enough to be in tier 2, will move up to tier 3 but then the cases will continue to rise until we end up in a national Lockdown or Tier 5 in the coming weeks.
Do you persist with the tier system in the hope it combats this huge increase or do you throw down the anchor and stick everyone in a national lockdown when most are probably expecting it anyway?
For me, the stopping of football will be a huge downer on me and no doubt much of the population because it will be feel like we're back where we were in March and things don't seem to be getting better. That said, it feels inevitable that football will stop for a period of time and with the case numbers, it's hard to argue that it wouldn't be a right call.
The vaccines cannot come quick enough, put whatever resources we can possibly find into getting the vaccines rolled out quicker than it is being! |
Because of an underling condition, i received a letter fron Hancock and Jenrick.it stated i should take extra care because i live in Tier 4???????.The letter was dated 20th.December. Being presumptive or what?. | |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:52 - Dec 29 with 5172 views | wimborne_dale |
Maybe a shortened league season would be in order. E.g. 36 games instead of the usual 46. Pick an appropriate number. That way, the current season would finish on schedule and the 21/22 season could start on time.
Not ideal but maybe the best we can do in the circumstances? |  |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:59 - Dec 29 with 5144 views | 442Dale |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:42 - Dec 29 by isitme |
I've seen those figures as well, lots of people having a test 'just to be sure' before Christmas. The main problem is that both tests do not do what we need them to do, which is tell us if someone actually has Covid and is infectious. This mass testing of people without symptoms is a waste of time.
Another major problem is hospital acquired infections. Go in for one thing and because you are tested so much you end up testing positive and there you go you are another 'Covid patient', even though you did not get admitted for it.
What I would like to know is:
1. What percentage of 'covid patients' were actually admitted for Covid?
2. What percentage of total beds are taken up with people actually admitted due to Covid and how does this compare to usual levels of admissions for respiratory related infections for this time of year?
The sooner the Oxford vaccine gets approved and administered the better. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 16:43]
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Whatever the answers to those questions are, hospitals are experiencing issues and action will undoubtedly follow. There are far too many conspiracy theories going around when this is a global issue and countries everywhere have restrictions in place or have locked down even more than we have.
The vaccines are ultimately the way out of it, partly because of the failings individually and collectively of so many. |  |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:05 - Dec 29 with 5111 views | D_Alien |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:59 - Dec 29 by 442Dale |
Whatever the answers to those questions are, hospitals are experiencing issues and action will undoubtedly follow. There are far too many conspiracy theories going around when this is a global issue and countries everywhere have restrictions in place or have locked down even more than we have.
The vaccines are ultimately the way out of it, partly because of the failings individually and collectively of so many. |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55474533
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-55471235
[Post edited 29 Dec 2020 17:06]
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:12 - Dec 29 with 5072 views | TVOS1907 |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:42 - Dec 29 by isitme |
I've seen those figures as well, lots of people having a test 'just to be sure' before Christmas. The main problem is that both tests do not do what we need them to do, which is tell us if someone actually has Covid and is infectious. This mass testing of people without symptoms is a waste of time.
Another major problem is hospital acquired infections. Go in for one thing and because you are tested so much you end up testing positive and there you go you are another 'Covid patient', even though you did not get admitted for it.
What I would like to know is:
1. What percentage of 'covid patients' were actually admitted for Covid?
2. What percentage of total beds are taken up with people actually admitted due to Covid and how does this compare to usual levels of admissions for respiratory related infections for this time of year?
The sooner the Oxford vaccine gets approved and administered the better. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 16:43]
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I notice you upvoted one of my schools posts yesterday, but refrained from commenting, which I found surprising given you have quite strong knowledge and opinions on this whole issue.
So, what's your take? Do you expect to be back next week? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:16 - Dec 29 with 5070 views | 442Dale |
Perfect examples. And the same people will be making “fake virus”, “no different to the flu” as an excuse for their actions. This has been much harder because of those sorts of selfish attitudes. | |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:20 - Dec 29 with 5054 views | isitme |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:59 - Dec 29 by 442Dale |
Whatever the answers to those questions are, hospitals are experiencing issues and action will undoubtedly follow. There are far too many conspiracy theories going around when this is a global issue and countries everywhere have restrictions in place or have locked down even more than we have.
The vaccines are ultimately the way out of it, partly because of the failings individually and collectively of so many. |
Hospitals always experience issues at this time of year there are numerous articles for all to see on the BBC website about the NHS being overwhelmed every winter for the past 20 years and last winter was seen as being a mild winter.
Look at countries like Peru and Argentina who have had longer and stricter lockdowns but yet are classed as being in a worse situation than we are. There is no evidence that longer and harsher lockdowns have resulted in fewer cases and deaths, in fact some would argue the opposite. The only real places that have been able to manage it better than mainland Europe are Australia and New Zealand who are isolated and sensibly closed their borders at the outset and some South East Asian countries where levels of obesity are much lower and they have greater resistance due to exposure due to SARS.
Ah blame the people again! It's the people's fault that they have not been able to stop the transmission of a virus no matter how pious they have been. The person I know who has been affected the worst by Covid didn't leave his house apart from going to work and wore an industrial grade mask at all times.
Vaccines are/were the way out of so many viruses and have made it possible to live normal lives whilst virtually eradicating or living alongside viruses that used to kill thousands a year. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 17:49]
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:34 - Dec 29 with 5017 views | isitme |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:12 - Dec 29 by TVOS1907 |
I notice you upvoted one of my schools posts yesterday, but refrained from commenting, which I found surprising given you have quite strong knowledge and opinions on this whole issue.
So, what's your take? Do you expect to be back next week? |
Your post was very informative, especially to those who do not know how schools are attempting to manage things currently. You also highlighted some of the absurdities of the DFE guidance, especially two metre boxes, which are not two metre.
I expect the Government to cave and that it will be 'online learning' for at least another week, which will then extend to the end of the month and maybe into February.
Not that I agree with it. Closing schools is an awful decision which will affect millions of children and exacerbate existing issues. The most needy children suffer most from not being in school. I also think the mass testing of children and staff who do not have symptoms is a recipe for disaster. I certainly would not want to administer a test and don't feel comfortable with the idea of volunteers coming into schools to do so neither. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 17:34]
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:44 - Dec 29 with 4978 views | 442Dale |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:20 - Dec 29 by isitme |
Hospitals always experience issues at this time of year there are numerous articles for all to see on the BBC website about the NHS being overwhelmed every winter for the past 20 years and last winter was seen as being a mild winter.
Look at countries like Peru and Argentina who have had longer and stricter lockdowns but yet are classed as being in a worse situation than we are. There is no evidence that longer and harsher lockdowns have resulted in fewer cases and deaths, in fact some would argue the opposite. The only real places that have been able to manage it better than mainland Europe are Australia and New Zealand who are isolated and sensibly closed their borders at the outset and some South East Asian countries where levels of obesity are much lower and they have greater resistance due to exposure due to SARS.
Ah blame the people again! It's the people's fault that they have not been able to stop the transmission of a virus no matter how pious they have been. The person I know who has been affected the worst by Covid didn't leave his house apart from going to work and wore an industrial grade mask at all times.
Vaccines are/were the way out of so many viruses and have made it possible to live normal lives whilst virtually eradicating or living alongside viruses that used to kill thousands a year. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 17:49]
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Fully aware of all those things, and not a case of arguing for or against lockdowns nor am I going to take the time to post the details of what others have experienced. There is often no right or wrong, but if people want to act like idiots then they’ll be ok being called idiots. This is not a covid19 exclusive aspect of the entitled society in which we live.
If anyone has a major issue with how governments have handled it, they can remember it when voting next in whichever country they live. | |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:55 - Dec 29 with 4918 views | Shun |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 16:42 - Dec 29 by isitme |
I've seen those figures as well, lots of people having a test 'just to be sure' before Christmas. The main problem is that both tests do not do what we need them to do, which is tell us if someone actually has Covid and is infectious. This mass testing of people without symptoms is a waste of time.
Another major problem is hospital acquired infections. Go in for one thing and because you are tested so much you end up testing positive and there you go you are another 'Covid patient', even though you did not get admitted for it.
What I would like to know is:
1. What percentage of 'covid patients' were actually admitted for Covid?
2. What percentage of total beds are taken up with people actually admitted due to Covid and how does this compare to usual levels of admissions for respiratory related infections for this time of year?
The sooner the Oxford vaccine gets approved and administered the better. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 16:43]
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You continuously decry mass testing for people without symptoms but you still haven't explained why. It quite patently isn't a waste of time. If you have it and you're asymptomatic then it's feasible you're passing it on to any number of people, who could then go on and develop symptoms, potentially fatal. If a test can prevent you passing it on to all those people then how is that a waste of time?
'What percentage of 'covid patients' were actually admitted for Covid?' - Again I'm not sure what the point of this question is? That the figures are skewed as these Covid patients shouldn't be counted as they're suffering from something else as well? If they're poorly enough to be in hospital (trust me, it's very hard to be admitted into hospital right now - you'd need to be seriously unwell), then the strong likelihood is that Covid will harm them far more than you or me. |  | | |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:59 - Dec 29 with 4892 views | TVOS1907 |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:34 - Dec 29 by isitme |
Your post was very informative, especially to those who do not know how schools are attempting to manage things currently. You also highlighted some of the absurdities of the DFE guidance, especially two metre boxes, which are not two metre.
I expect the Government to cave and that it will be 'online learning' for at least another week, which will then extend to the end of the month and maybe into February.
Not that I agree with it. Closing schools is an awful decision which will affect millions of children and exacerbate existing issues. The most needy children suffer most from not being in school. I also think the mass testing of children and staff who do not have symptoms is a recipe for disaster. I certainly would not want to administer a test and don't feel comfortable with the idea of volunteers coming into schools to do so neither. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 17:34]
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Cheers
It's interesting that people seem to think 'online learning' happens by osmosis, because all Gove and Williamson have wittered on about this week is the mass testing.
I spent a few hours yesterday afternoon rehashing what I had spent a few hours doing on the day we broke up to be ready for next week.
Even now I don't know if that will be right because we are expecting years 11 & 13 only, but the way this lot treat education, they'll probably decide something else before Monday; or even on Monday.
We also don't know which and how many key workers' children or vulnerable children will be there until they turn up or their parents let school know they're attending, so how schools are supposed to make plans and provision for them at the moment is a mystery.
Gove and Williamson et al seem to have forgotten to mention this as well.
I agree with you about people administering tests. One thing they have yet again forgot to mention is how schools are supposed to magic up sufficient space and facilities to allow this to take place to fit in with their own guidelines on cleanliness, social distancing, isolating, etc.
Gove also said "we are talking to teachers and Headteachers". That would be a first for him and if you follow Vic Goddard on Twitter, it's not entirely accurate.
As you can tell, I'm not impressed.
Edit: just to add, I'll do whatever I have to in order to ensure my pupils get the best they can from me next week, but that can only happen with a bit more support from those making decisions. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 18:05]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 18:01 - Dec 29 with 4895 views | 442Dale |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:55 - Dec 29 by Shun |
You continuously decry mass testing for people without symptoms but you still haven't explained why. It quite patently isn't a waste of time. If you have it and you're asymptomatic then it's feasible you're passing it on to any number of people, who could then go on and develop symptoms, potentially fatal. If a test can prevent you passing it on to all those people then how is that a waste of time?
'What percentage of 'covid patients' were actually admitted for Covid?' - Again I'm not sure what the point of this question is? That the figures are skewed as these Covid patients shouldn't be counted as they're suffering from something else as well? If they're poorly enough to be in hospital (trust me, it's very hard to be admitted into hospital right now - you'd need to be seriously unwell), then the strong likelihood is that Covid will harm them far more than you or me. |
And from the aforementioned BBC, including quotes from those currently working in hospitals and the Chief Exec of NHS England:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55475240 | |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 18:06 - Dec 29 with 4851 views | D_Alien |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:59 - Dec 29 by TVOS1907 |
Cheers
It's interesting that people seem to think 'online learning' happens by osmosis, because all Gove and Williamson have wittered on about this week is the mass testing.
I spent a few hours yesterday afternoon rehashing what I had spent a few hours doing on the day we broke up to be ready for next week.
Even now I don't know if that will be right because we are expecting years 11 & 13 only, but the way this lot treat education, they'll probably decide something else before Monday; or even on Monday.
We also don't know which and how many key workers' children or vulnerable children will be there until they turn up or their parents let school know they're attending, so how schools are supposed to make plans and provision for them at the moment is a mystery.
Gove and Williamson et al seem to have forgotten to mention this as well.
I agree with you about people administering tests. One thing they have yet again forgot to mention is how schools are supposed to magic up sufficient space and facilities to allow this to take place to fit in with their own guidelines on cleanliness, social distancing, isolating, etc.
Gove also said "we are talking to teachers and Headteachers". That would be a first for him and if you follow Vic Goddard on Twitter, it's not entirely accurate.
As you can tell, I'm not impressed.
Edit: just to add, I'll do whatever I have to in order to ensure my pupils get the best they can from me next week, but that can only happen with a bit more support from those making decisions. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 18:05]
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Whilst the idea of mass testing in schools in itself isn't wrong in principle, asking teachers to do the testing is idiocy
Williamson continues to provide the perfect example of why direct government intervention in public services (by any government) is a very bad idea | |
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| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 18:11 - Dec 29 with 4841 views | isitme |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 17:59 - Dec 29 by TVOS1907 |
Cheers
It's interesting that people seem to think 'online learning' happens by osmosis, because all Gove and Williamson have wittered on about this week is the mass testing.
I spent a few hours yesterday afternoon rehashing what I had spent a few hours doing on the day we broke up to be ready for next week.
Even now I don't know if that will be right because we are expecting years 11 & 13 only, but the way this lot treat education, they'll probably decide something else before Monday; or even on Monday.
We also don't know which and how many key workers' children or vulnerable children will be there until they turn up or their parents let school know they're attending, so how schools are supposed to make plans and provision for them at the moment is a mystery.
Gove and Williamson et al seem to have forgotten to mention this as well.
I agree with you about people administering tests. One thing they have yet again forgot to mention is how schools are supposed to magic up sufficient space and facilities to allow this to take place to fit in with their own guidelines on cleanliness, social distancing, isolating, etc.
Gove also said "we are talking to teachers and Headteachers". That would be a first for him and if you follow Vic Goddard on Twitter, it's not entirely accurate.
As you can tell, I'm not impressed.
Edit: just to add, I'll do whatever I have to in order to ensure my pupils get the best they can from me next week, but that can only happen with a bit more support from those making decisions. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 18:05]
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Your students are lucky in that they will have high quality online learning, many will not. How many pupils will get a good old MyMaths, Dr Frost etc but with no help if they do not understand it?
Williamson and the DFE are useless. Things will change again tomorrow and probably again next week! It is so frustrating because you just cannot plan and in many subjects teach what you want to so again the most needy lose out as the lessons have to be a bit drier. | | | |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 18:13 - Dec 29 with 4820 views | TVOS1907 |
| "Covid-19: Continuation of football in England 'not wise', on 18:06 - Dec 29 by D_Alien |
Whilst the idea of mass testing in schools in itself isn't wrong in principle, asking teachers to do the testing is idiocy
Williamson continues to provide the perfect example of why direct government intervention in public services (by any government) is a very bad idea |
I think they've said teachers won't be expected to do it.
The masterplan seems to be to get the pupils to do it themselves under supervision from the volunteers schools are supposed to find for next week. These volunteers are going to get expert advice from military personnel!!
A Headteacher on the news has just said she is struggling to find volunteers, which is so predictable.
Williamson doesn't seem to be saying anything now. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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