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I've seen a few posts hinting at "the elephant in the room" (whatever that means). This is a forum so let's just cut to the chase. This season Lumley has been prone to some brain farts (Stoke and Brizzle away spring to mind). Whilst you could put some down to inexperience, today's mistake for Luton's first goal was simply unacceptable. Every week Warburton talks about cutting out individual errors and learning from mistakes but Joe doesn't seem to be taking heed. So what do you good people think? Does Joe deserve another chance or is it time to give Kelly his shot?
I'm ambivalent. I also think there is a good keeper in there somewhere he's a great shot-saver with trigger fast instincts and on the other hand I'm also thinking that he should be taken out of the front line for a good long while because his confidence must be - and indeed is -transparently shot and he should be attending Rob Green's passing it out accurately calmly confidently and safely Siberian Goalie Rehabilitation Camp (Proprietor: Mr Bluce Ree)
Dave Beasant could and did never play for the scum again after these howlers My favourite goalkeeping performance of all time,enjoy: https://pic.twitter.com/MNYlReqGQ9
[Post edited 15 Sep 2019 5:01]
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
Up until his mistake, I thought his distribution and overall recycling of the ball were excellent, and a huge improvement on last season.
He's improved in this regard all through the season and will continue to improve.
I can think of three goals this season that he was central to us scoring.
Personally I think when we got three up, and were finding space all over the pitch, I think the whole team started to go into strolling mode and it was only a matter of time before someone dropped a clanger.
If we're going to play in this manner, we have to take the rough with the smooth.
That added to the fact that his team mates at no point showed any lack of confidence in him indicates to me that he should continue.
It's a tough call but, for all his assets, Lumley's deficiencies might not be cured by playing through them. I do think his distribution is generally better than last season, but he's prone to nervyness and the massive clanger too often. I'm not sure these can be cured by just brooding on the bench, therapy of some type might help I suppose.
I thought on the whole his distribution was pretty good apart from the mistake. The problem is he's not this type of keeper whose core skill is being able to pass out from the back. He can practise and improve, but ultimately if you want your keep to perform this job for the team then you need to find a keeper who's comfortable doing it. Lumley is a good GK, but probably not the GK for this style.
Up until his mistake, I thought his distribution and overall recycling of the ball were excellent, and a huge improvement on last season.
He's improved in this regard all through the season and will continue to improve.
I can think of three goals this season that he was central to us scoring.
Personally I think when we got three up, and were finding space all over the pitch, I think the whole team started to go into strolling mode and it was only a matter of time before someone dropped a clanger.
If we're going to play in this manner, we have to take the rough with the smooth.
That added to the fact that his team mates at no point showed any lack of confidence in him indicates to me that he should continue.
Agree with all of this - I realise it sounds trite to say that he's been great apart from the times when he hasn't been, but take out those three howlers and he's been really solid this season.
I think it's also a man-management thing. Warburton's said he'll accept players making a few mistakes in exchange for playing out from the back, so to hook Lumley would seem inconsistent with that, and risk destroying his confidence. At the same time, I imagine Kelly must be wondering what needs to happen in order for him to get a start.
The other thing to consider here is that Millwall away is absolutely not the game to bring in a new keeper. I'd give Lumley the next 2 or 3 games, with the understanding that the stupid errors have to stop, and then re-assess.
Agree with all of this - I realise it sounds trite to say that he's been great apart from the times when he hasn't been, but take out those three howlers and he's been really solid this season.
I think it's also a man-management thing. Warburton's said he'll accept players making a few mistakes in exchange for playing out from the back, so to hook Lumley would seem inconsistent with that, and risk destroying his confidence. At the same time, I imagine Kelly must be wondering what needs to happen in order for him to get a start.
The other thing to consider here is that Millwall away is absolutely not the game to bring in a new keeper. I'd give Lumley the next 2 or 3 games, with the understanding that the stupid errors have to stop, and then re-assess.
I agree with everything said here and I love Joe, but this a real test for Warburton. He has been quoted this season that no-one is entitled to play every week and needs to be on their game.
Then there's Liam Kelly to think about. We got hold of Ingram as a highly rated young keeper, but didn't play him and he lost sharpness descending into poor form when he did get his chance. Whilst I know we cannot keep chopping and changing in goal, I would understand it if Kelly got the nod.
I'd stick with Joe, but, as I say, I am biased as I want Joe to be our 'keeper for years and years...
Agree with all of this - I realise it sounds trite to say that he's been great apart from the times when he hasn't been, but take out those three howlers and he's been really solid this season.
I think it's also a man-management thing. Warburton's said he'll accept players making a few mistakes in exchange for playing out from the back, so to hook Lumley would seem inconsistent with that, and risk destroying his confidence. At the same time, I imagine Kelly must be wondering what needs to happen in order for him to get a start.
The other thing to consider here is that Millwall away is absolutely not the game to bring in a new keeper. I'd give Lumley the next 2 or 3 games, with the understanding that the stupid errors have to stop, and then re-assess.
Yeah, it's a good point. I remember years ago when Brendan Rogers was at Swansea. They lost the game and the goal came from a howler like yesterday. I can't remember who the keeper was but afterwards Rogers said "I take full responsibility for the mistake, I ask the team to play out like that so every now and then things like this will happen".
We fanny about with it at the back. If it works we suck their press forward and break out of it and then someone is running straight at their back four with runners either side. It’s our central tactic against teams that press and we do it pretty well. If it doesn’t work we look a bit silly. Can’t have one without the other as Man City found yesterday.
I love this ‘new’ approach. Makes for much more entertaining games. Just sometimes it won’t be in our favour.
I want Lumley to be our keeper for years too. And the mistake yesterday happens now and again. But it’s not the first time in his career with us he has done it. He needs to reduce those errors obviously,
IMO the bigger issue is how he handles crosses. A few times this season he come out flapping and not got there. Today in the second half he was rooted to his line and didn’t come for several crosses in his 6 yard box. Presumably the mistake shook his confidence, but we will concede a lot of goals if he stands on his line whilst opposition sides sling it in there.
Lumley has made more howlers than Ingram ever did yet keeps getting a free pass each time whilst Ingram was slated, the difference in the reaction is bizarre. In fact Toby Roberts & Rob Green got more stick despite making fewer errors at a higher level than Lumley will ever play. People seriously thought Bristol City were ready to spend £2m on Lumley, really. Lumley has his strengths and I hope he improves to become a good player but I struggle to see past the regular costly f**k ups at the moment.
I'd like to see Kelly given a chance for a few games. We've got two keepers who're supposed to be pushing each other and I think they should get an equal footing - nobody wants to be dropped but these things happen, no need to over-dramatise it. Assuming Kelly is doing what he's supposed to in training let's put him in - Lumers will get more chances this season no doubt.
As soon as Kelly comes in, one mistake and this conversation will be repeated.
It's not just the errors though, Smeg - as said above, he's rooted to his line on crosses - that needs worked on. Kelly could well make mistakes and be criticised but that's normal - not a reason not to start him.
I feel people's reaction may have been different had we drawn this game after being so comfortably in front. Soon, one of Lumley's brain farts will prove costly; at the minute, he seems to be getting away with a lot ðŸ˜
Means the huge 'issue' people aren't mentioning...
I think he has decent distribution, hence he's bitten off more than he can chew on a couple of occasions because of his desire to show this. I'd bet he doesn't make those mistakes in training, but that's the difference between training and a match.
I'm hoping Joe keeps his place, but there can't be much more room for errors of that magnitude. There must have been at least ten major howlers in the last year, unfortunately for Joe.
We fanny about with it at the back. If it works we suck their press forward and break out of it and then someone is running straight at their back four with runners either side. It’s our central tactic against teams that press and we do it pretty well. If it doesn’t work we look a bit silly. Can’t have one without the other as Man City found yesterday.
I love this ‘new’ approach. Makes for much more entertaining games. Just sometimes it won’t be in our favour.
Ha! You call that fannying around at the back? This is fannying around at the back.
I agree with everything said here and I love Joe, but this a real test for Warburton. He has been quoted this season that no-one is entitled to play every week and needs to be on their game.
Then there's Liam Kelly to think about. We got hold of Ingram as a highly rated young keeper, but didn't play him and he lost sharpness descending into poor form when he did get his chance. Whilst I know we cannot keep chopping and changing in goal, I would understand it if Kelly got the nod.
I'd stick with Joe, but, as I say, I am biased as I want Joe to be our 'keeper for years and years...
Kelly hasn’t looked very good when he has played though....so it’s not like we have a real plan B option. Lumley mistake yesterday was catastrophic and may well have cost us the game so it cannot be overlooked by MW. Don’t forget our strikers missed a whole bunch of chances to put the game out of sight - Hugill should have had a hat trick.
Ha! You call that fannying around at the back? This is fannying around at the back.
That is top class fannying right there.
I'm glad the decision doesn't fall to me. Who knows what the effect dropping JL would have on him against keeping his place, or alternatively the effect on LK of not getting in the side while the number 1 is giving goals away. Tough one.
It’s not a elephant in the room if there are 22 threads in the subject!
Can’t deny he’s hit a rough patch but we seem to have forgotten his previous 90 games. There isn’t a guaranteed alternative, as I thought Kelly looked just as wobbly when I’ve seen him.
Stick with him. We’ve tried the disposable footballer system and it got us bang in trouble.
I want Lumley to be our keeper for years too. And the mistake yesterday happens now and again. But it’s not the first time in his career with us he has done it. He needs to reduce those errors obviously,
IMO the bigger issue is how he handles crosses. A few times this season he come out flapping and not got there. Today in the second half he was rooted to his line and didn’t come for several crosses in his 6 yard box. Presumably the mistake shook his confidence, but we will concede a lot of goals if he stands on his line whilst opposition sides sling it in there.
That sort of issue can be trained out of him though right?
Can we talk about the real elephant in the room? The people who only post about the negatives and can't seem to take any joy in the football we are currently experiencing at KPFS. It is hard to remember any better football being played at W12 in the last 50 years but there are those who only want to point out the faults, and not in a constructive criticism way either. Lumley probably made the least mistakes of any of our players yesterday, one, but he is being held up as the only reason we aren't further up the table. That is a load of testicles. This isn't a a team assembled for £30-50m or more it is a team of kids, freebies, rejects and loanees, next time you want to post about how bad some of them are try to remember that... and don't bother posting it. Just about everyone thought we would be in a season long relegation scrap and the fact that we are in the upper part of the top half is a testament to ALL the players concerned.
MW 'You can't say to players 'be brave but don't make a mistake'. Players are humans not machines, it doesn't work like that. I want us to be brave but not reckless'
It’s not a elephant in the room if there are 22 threads in the subject!
Can’t deny he’s hit a rough patch but we seem to have forgotten his previous 90 games. There isn’t a guaranteed alternative, as I thought Kelly looked just as wobbly when I’ve seen him.
Stick with him. We’ve tried the disposable footballer system and it got us bang in trouble.
Baz it took till 3 in the morning before the aforementioned name got itself its own thread, under the circumstances, in my book, that constitutes an ‘elephant in the room’.
I’ve witnessed Phil Parkes throw the ball in his own net, these things happen, but I also knew that despite that he’d make save after save, come off his line at anyone’s feet and pluck crosses out the air and take half their attack with him.
The problem here is none of these things are happening on a regular enough basis. Defenders are being asked to clear most threats, even in the six yard box. I’ve given up expecting him to take part in defending corners.
That Grealish free kick that came back out off his post about 10 months ago set the alarm bells off and I’m still waiting for them to stop ringing.
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