| Clydach Murders 09:30 - Dec 27 with 28415 views | Neath_Jack |
The search function doesn't work for me, so i'm starting this one...
I had the book for Christmas, and had a quick look at it last night and in the prologue it states "This is the story of an appalling crime and the flawed police investigation that followed. It is based mainly on first hand reports from the South Wales Evening Post..."
That has made me want to bin the book already.
I shall however, read it and report back with my findings. |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 16:24 - Dec 31 with 4788 views | Wingstandwood |
| Clydach Murders on 15:57 - Dec 31 by Neath_Jack |
If it's passed about that easily, how do you explain zero DNA from Morris being anywhere in the house? |
The fires where certain items of probable item contamination were heaped up into piles and set on fire, the wearing of socks as a glove, the evidence destroying fire damage from heat, the surface area covering of black residual carbon soot, the difficulty to obtain DNA sample with blood cross contamiation on (police could not obtain a sample) Morris chain i.e. paint trace was found as evidence instead. But true to say stuff that had not been wiped or cleaned because the killer had no reason to clean it may indeed have had an innocent persons DNA on it.
DNA (of quality) can at times be hard to obtain and convict e.g Omagh Bombing Sean Hoey case with low-copy DNA. Its not like a predator movie where its all over the place and glowing nicely. And I do wonder any DNA found at Clydach (despite possible innocent explaination) low copy? Anyhow there is a case review and the judicial system will come to the correct conclusion! |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 16:37 - Dec 31 with 4773 views | Jackfath |
I bought this book today. |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 16:54 - Dec 31 with 4740 views | Flashberryjack |
| Clydach Murders on 16:37 - Dec 31 by Jackfath |
I bought this book today. |
More fool you |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 17:05 - Dec 31 with 4711 views | Jackfath |
Why? | |
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| Clydach Murders on 19:31 - Dec 31 with 4631 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach Murders on 16:12 - Dec 31 by exhmrc1 |
unfortunately you are taking this book as gospel based on the reports of the Evening Post. You only have the book. The 2 juries unanimously found him guilty on both occasions hearing both sides of the evidence.
The question of the chain is critical. He claimed it wasn't his and only changed his story when confronted with evidence showing the chain had paint matching the paint in his house. He then claims he left it there the night before even though on that Saturday he was in the pub the whole day and nobody noticed a distinctive chain wasn't on his neck. A bit like Darran being in the pub and nobody noticing he suddenly had short hair.
Well before anyone was charged I was talking to a girl who worked in a Department store. The police had called there to see if they had sold a similar chain. The girl shown the chain commented that there must have been one hell of a struggle for the chan to get in that state.
Does your book mention that or it just giving a very one sided version of events |
I'm not taking anything as gospel mate, i'm asking questions from things raised in the book. Also, from what i can see, the author has done this investigative book for his one reasons and not on behalf of Morris?
Hang on, those witness statements from the pub regarding his chain, were taken 18 months after the event. Are you telling me that you could remember if one person in a pub was wearing one or not after all that time?
The girl in the department store is a metallurgist? How the hell does she know what it takes to break a clasp? | |
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| Clydach Murders on 19:34 - Dec 31 with 4629 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach Murders on 16:24 - Dec 31 by Wingstandwood |
The fires where certain items of probable item contamination were heaped up into piles and set on fire, the wearing of socks as a glove, the evidence destroying fire damage from heat, the surface area covering of black residual carbon soot, the difficulty to obtain DNA sample with blood cross contamiation on (police could not obtain a sample) Morris chain i.e. paint trace was found as evidence instead. But true to say stuff that had not been wiped or cleaned because the killer had no reason to clean it may indeed have had an innocent persons DNA on it.
DNA (of quality) can at times be hard to obtain and convict e.g Omagh Bombing Sean Hoey case with low-copy DNA. Its not like a predator movie where its all over the place and glowing nicely. And I do wonder any DNA found at Clydach (despite possible innocent explaination) low copy? Anyhow there is a case review and the judicial system will come to the correct conclusion! |
So in your layman's opinion, would you have thought that after committing four brutal murders, there would be zero DNA left about? Really?
I've given the book to someone who served in the Flying Squad for over 40 years to have a read. So many questions and that's without bringing the Lewis mobs actions into the equation. | |
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| Clydach Murders on 19:39 - Dec 31 with 4618 views | Dr_Winston |
| Clydach Murders on 19:34 - Dec 31 by Neath_Jack |
So in your layman's opinion, would you have thought that after committing four brutal murders, there would be zero DNA left about? Really?
I've given the book to someone who served in the Flying Squad for over 40 years to have a read. So many questions and that's without bringing the Lewis mobs actions into the equation. |
Would Morris have left any blood, sweat, skin or any other bodily matter about the place? DNA doesn't rub off your shoes like. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Clydach Murders on 19:46 - Dec 31 with 4611 views | trampie |
Juries get it wrong, some barristers are better than others and can affect the outcome of a trial, judges can miss direct, police can have an agenda.
Lots of appeals and trials often mean there is doubt over a verdict, once a decision has been made in the original trial even if it's dicey it can be difficult to overturn.
Who knows in this case, but police behaviour seemed very odd. |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 19:54 - Dec 31 with 4599 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach Murders on 19:39 - Dec 31 by Dr_Winston |
Would Morris have left any blood, sweat, skin or any other bodily matter about the place? DNA doesn't rub off your shoes like. |
Well the prosecution alleged that he was pissed up and had taken a shedfull of whizz, it was in the summer, he would have been getting very physical to carry out the horrific murders, so what do you think you clever condescending c*nt?
And just to be clear, i'm not saying that he is guilty or not guilty, i am posing questions raised in the book. | |
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| Clydach Murders on 19:57 - Dec 31 with 4587 views | Dr_Winston |
| Clydach Murders on 19:54 - Dec 31 by Neath_Jack |
Well the prosecution alleged that he was pissed up and had taken a shedfull of whizz, it was in the summer, he would have been getting very physical to carry out the horrific murders, so what do you think you clever condescending c*nt?
And just to be clear, i'm not saying that he is guilty or not guilty, i am posing questions raised in the book. |
Wow. Simple question. So touchy.
How physical would he have to be to kill one woman, an old woman and two young girls when he had a weapon and they didn't?
This post has been edited by an administrator | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:00 - Dec 31 with 4578 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach Murders on 19:57 - Dec 31 by Dr_Winston |
Wow. Simple question. So touchy.
How physical would he have to be to kill one woman, an old woman and two young girls when he had a weapon and they didn't?
This post has been edited by an administrator |
"DNA doesn't rub off your shoes like"
Any need for that comment?
Well listening to the martial arts expert on how the weapon was wielded, then yes, i reckon he would have. He would have been sweating like a pig as he was powdered up too. He didn't tickle them with it like. | |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:09 - Dec 31 with 4553 views | Dr_Winston |
| Clydach Murders on 20:00 - Dec 31 by Neath_Jack |
"DNA doesn't rub off your shoes like"
Any need for that comment?
Well listening to the martial arts expert on how the weapon was wielded, then yes, i reckon he would have. He would have been sweating like a pig as he was powdered up too. He didn't tickle them with it like. |
I'm not convinced that a significantly bigger, stronger male would find it too much of an exertion to kill four people, only one of whom had any realistic prospect of being able to fight back, regardless of how a weapon was wielded. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:10 - Dec 31 with 4538 views | Darran |
| Clydach Murders on 19:54 - Dec 31 by Neath_Jack |
Well the prosecution alleged that he was pissed up and had taken a shedfull of whizz, it was in the summer, he would have been getting very physical to carry out the horrific murders, so what do you think you clever condescending c*nt?
And just to be clear, i'm not saying that he is guilty or not guilty, i am posing questions raised in the book. |
You can’t speak to the Dr like that mun. |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:11 - Dec 31 with 4531 views | Dr_Winston |
| Clydach Murders on 20:10 - Dec 31 by Darran |
You can’t speak to the Dr like that mun. |
Why not? | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:28 - Dec 31 with 4504 views | Wingstandwood |
| Clydach Murders on 19:34 - Dec 31 by Neath_Jack |
So in your layman's opinion, would you have thought that after committing four brutal murders, there would be zero DNA left about? Really?
I've given the book to someone who served in the Flying Squad for over 40 years to have a read. So many questions and that's without bringing the Lewis mobs actions into the equation. |
Why was no DNA residue found in the post explosion remnants of the Omagh bomb car and the (confined space!) of the phone box that made a warning call that (by means of mobile phone trace) implicated the Real IRA O.C? The phone box was uprouted, taken away and even its coins were forensically examined? No evidence found! But hey the caller was wearing gloves!
He was not convicted because witnesse(s) refused to give evidence that connected a specific mobile phone through fear and the fact DNA does not always sprinkle about like glittering killer-evidence confetti when a little bit of savvy is used. It takes no genius to wear gloves! | |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:34 - Dec 31 with 4489 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach Murders on 20:28 - Dec 31 by Wingstandwood |
Why was no DNA residue found in the post explosion remnants of the Omagh bomb car and the (confined space!) of the phone box that made a warning call that (by means of mobile phone trace) implicated the Real IRA O.C? The phone box was uprouted, taken away and even its coins were forensically examined? No evidence found! But hey the caller was wearing gloves!
He was not convicted because witnesse(s) refused to give evidence that connected a specific mobile phone through fear and the fact DNA does not always sprinkle about like glittering killer-evidence confetti when a little bit of savvy is used. It takes no genius to wear gloves! |
You just said why, there was an explosion.
Only one fire that was set at the murder scene that took hold, and that was in the kitchen, massive difference to an explosion i'm sure you'll agree?
There was a bloodied sock that was found, which they suspect was worn by the killer, why was there none of his DNA found in that? His skin cells would definitely have sloughed off into that? The bloodied sock left a hand print that was found on the carpet, it was too small to be left by Morris' hand, but very close to Alison Lewis. Why was that? | |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:38 - Dec 31 with 4479 views | Jackfath |
What became of the three police officers? | |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:43 - Dec 31 with 4466 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach Murders on 20:38 - Dec 31 by Jackfath |
What became of the three police officers? |
One had already quit before the murders, i believe one of the brothers never returned to serve.
Morris' solicitor from the first trial ended up f*cked too, due to his dodgy practice of representing Morris and the Lewis brothers at the same time. I also believe that he had to pay the court costs of the trial due that. | |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:47 - Dec 31 with 4457 views | Jackfath |
| Clydach Murders on 20:43 - Dec 31 by Neath_Jack |
One had already quit before the murders, i believe one of the brothers never returned to serve.
Morris' solicitor from the first trial ended up f*cked too, due to his dodgy practice of representing Morris and the Lewis brothers at the same time. I also believe that he had to pay the court costs of the trial due that. |
Do they reside in Swansea? | |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:59 - Dec 31 with 4433 views | Darran |
| Clydach Murders on 20:11 - Dec 31 by Dr_Winston |
Why not? |
It’s not right. | |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:59 - Dec 31 with 4429 views | squarebear |
My missus (who at the time was partner to one of the investigating officers, reckoned at least one of the officers under suspicion moved away due to the constant scrutiny.
Certainly her partner reckoned privately that a policeman was responsible based on the condition of the crime scene, and that the brother couldn’t offer an explanation as to why he’d washed his trainers that morning. |  | | |
| Clydach Murders on 21:10 - Dec 31 with 4412 views | Cooperman |
| Clydach Murders on 20:34 - Dec 31 by Neath_Jack |
You just said why, there was an explosion.
Only one fire that was set at the murder scene that took hold, and that was in the kitchen, massive difference to an explosion i'm sure you'll agree?
There was a bloodied sock that was found, which they suspect was worn by the killer, why was there none of his DNA found in that? His skin cells would definitely have sloughed off into that? The bloodied sock left a hand print that was found on the carpet, it was too small to be left by Morris' hand, but very close to Alison Lewis. Why was that? |
Was it established if there was a DNA match on the sock to any of the potential assailants? |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 06:10 - Feb 1 with 2060 views | Glastonbury |
This is starting to pick up again and rightly so. I'll never forget that the chief super Martin Lloyd-Evans on the news after the verdict saying the killer knew how to play the system and was a very forensically aware. He was spot on but got the wrong person / persons
Lloyd - Evans knew Alison Lewis quite well and simply should have stepped aside and brought an outside force in. | | | |
| Clydach Murders on 09:45 - Feb 1 with 1929 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Clydach Murders on 20:09 - Dec 31 by Dr_Winston |
I'm not convinced that a significantly bigger, stronger male would find it too much of an exertion to kill four people, only one of whom had any realistic prospect of being able to fight back, regardless of how a weapon was wielded. |
It’s not like he’s knocking a nail in to a wall to hang a picture up though is it? His adrenaline must have been going through the roof if he was killing four defenceless human beings, including an old woman and two little girls.
The motive in this case has always bothered me. Was he hopelessly in love with Mandy Power or were they just meeting for secretive sex? If the latter was the case why kill any of them?
This sounds like the actions of a person possessed by an obsession - a sort of “If I can’t have you nobody can” reaction.
Anyway I’m sure the police could sue for libel if there’s a slur on them and their investigation. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Clydach Murders on 10:29 - Feb 1 with 1887 views | Dr_Winston |
| Clydach Murders on 09:45 - Feb 1 by Brynmill_Jack |
It’s not like he’s knocking a nail in to a wall to hang a picture up though is it? His adrenaline must have been going through the roof if he was killing four defenceless human beings, including an old woman and two little girls.
The motive in this case has always bothered me. Was he hopelessly in love with Mandy Power or were they just meeting for secretive sex? If the latter was the case why kill any of them?
This sounds like the actions of a person possessed by an obsession - a sort of “If I can’t have you nobody can” reaction.
Anyway I’m sure the police could sue for libel if there’s a slur on them and their investigation. |
I've dealt with enough nutters in my time to suggest that "motive" is a moot point sometimes. The most insignificant little thing can be enough to set some people off. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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