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I don't know if you've been keeping an eye on Venezuela? It is a socialist regime much lauded by Mr Corbyn as an example of what we should aspire to. Well yes, if you fancy hyperinflation, a worthless currency and empty shelves in shops and supermarkets - how do fancy queuing for hours to buy toilet rolls? In short, this socialist paradise is a modern day catastrophe.
Venezuela is yet another example of the folly that is socialism. The thing is, it's nothing new. We were used to hearing these stories in the latter half of last century, when half of Europe was living the 'Socialist Dream' under the Soviet boot heel. The only thing that changes is that yet another starry-eyed generation of young people have to see for themselves and suffer the disillusion that comes from experience. TheVenezuelan experience will never be repeated in Britain because for all its faults the British electorate will never vote into power a pair of Trotskyite zealots like Corbyn and McDonnell. Here's a flavour:
"Many Venezuelans have already left the country, including Francisco Flores..... The NHS therapist, who now lives in London, says the regime is based on a principle of keeping everyone “equal but poor”.
This way, the state becomes a nanny and everyone loses the power to do anything because they are so dependent on it.
Venezuela is now suffering from the effects of a deep recession and hyperinflation as the government prints money to try to plug a gap between revenues and spending that is on course to hit 25pc of gross domestic product (GDP) next year."
Pure Corbynism.
[Post edited 21 May 2016 23:18]
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Venezuela - a reality checks on 17:56 - May 22 with 2966 views
Venezuela - a reality checks on 17:33 - May 22 by blueytheblue
I always find it amusing that some socialist nations are lauded by the great and good on the left yet human rights abuses in those nations are handily ignored. Even worse when zelebs do it.
It was summed up for me when the Manics did their little puff piece abut how wonder Cuba under Castro was. As the intellectual midget that is Nicky Wire offered, "Well, there are human rights issues but we don't really want to talk about them".
I'd suggest that analysis of human rights organisations would see more violations in socialist nations than capitalist ones.
Yes absolutely, this has always been the problem.
It's like antisemitism on the left, it's absolutely rife but it's denied constantly. If someone says anything about Islam they're an islamophobic disgusting racist.
It's levels of outrage, Muslims tend to be poorer than Jews and therefore require attention.
We'll excuse homophobia and sexism in Islamic culture, but any white man who utters anything remotely sexist or homophobic is a bigot who deserves derision and should be fired.
It's like a sickness.
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
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Venezuela - a reality checks on 22:31 - May 22 with 2894 views
Venezuela - a reality checks on 16:21 - May 22 by Davillin
to "Nice_to_Michu"
You asked, "America is obsessed with capitalism, as we all know. Should we look to Anerica as a shining example of how to care for its poor or its ill?"?" [p.s. Please learn to spell "Anerica" correctly, and learn that the name of this country is not "America," but "The United States" or "U.S." for short.]
Perhaps you wouldn't have to ask that question if you knew even a dot about American history -- political and social. I have lived it for 80 years. I can walk outside and down any street in my town and see people whose parents or grandparents came here with the clothes on their backs, but with the desire and intention to work hard and be successful in a capitalist system. And were successful. The evidence is everywhere for those who will look.
On the other hand, one of our political parties is not interested in that outcome, but prefers to be a nanny state and give to anyone who will accept it a free ride in life. No need to work, therefore no chance to be successful in the system. But the end result is poverty -- for those who accept that outcome, and others who, for one reason or another, either cannot work or cannot find work in the system being attacked by that same party.
Anyone who believes that the U.S. has or had a bad healthcare system falls for the lie that that same political party uses in order to convert the country against its collective will to what they euphemistically call "a single-payer system" so that they can add to the power they incessantly work to achieve.
It as never been a problem with our "healthcare" system, which has been and is the finest in the world. The problem, on the surface, is our health "insurance" system. Those who were gainfully employed in order to progress in our system were not complaining.
Even those who, for whatever reason, were unable to have a job had the same healthcare available to them. I once posted on here a list of healthcare programs in the States that, between them, provided free care to everyone here who needed it. The list contained over 10 or 15 programs. Of course, now we have "Obamacare," which is clearly turning out to be an abject failure, after having taken away some or most of the systems of insuring or providing healthcare.
Imagine the effect on people who worked and paid for their own health insurance being told that they could no longer have that insurance, but were required by the federal government to take an Obamacare insurer and policy -- one size fits all -- and every year have to pay multiples more than they ever paid for their private insurance. It is now at the breaking point, if not breaking. The clearly stated intentions of Obamacare were to have young people, who neither needed nor wanted that policy, pay premiums used to cover those who couldn't afford it, and to have those who could afford the new premiums do the same. Until the premiums -- required by law, remember -- got too high to pay for some, and are getting too high for the rest.
With regard to "the poor," that same political party has been systematically degrading our economy by several dunderheaded programs. Burdens of taxation and insane rules and regulations on employers large and small are the worst because they drive employers either out of business or out of the country, taking untold numbers of jobs with them. As are the so-called "fair trade" agreements. Don't dare contradict me, please, because I have been observing it happen, as factory after factory close, sit empty for a time, and then are demolished because they were blights.
So, "Nice_to_Michu," you may look to Veneziuela if you prefer. My guess is that you know as little about its history -- political and economic.
Or, on the other hand, to China -- once the most virulently socialist/communist country on the planet -- who has been stealthily allowing capitalism to thrive.
Firstly, I know how to spell America (yeh I said America, not the U.S., I hope you can understand my writing) you petty, pathetic fool. It's called a typo. Get over yourself.
Secondly, you're not the only one on this forum who has lived or worked in America (or American government for what it's worth) for a considerable amount of time. Again, get over yourself.
Thirdly, anyone who states things like "don't dare contradict me" in a discussion, I tend to giggle to myself and ignore much of what they previously said.
Lastly, I never said I want a Venezuela-esque economy. Neither capitalist or socialist extremes are attractive in my opinion.
Get. Over. Yourself. You. Arrogant. Individual.
P.S. you spelt Venezuela wrong. Please, learn how to spell it. You taught me that typos are unacceptable. Unless it wasn't a typo and you can't spell....
[Post edited 22 May 2016 23:22]
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Venezuela - a reality checks on 01:03 - May 23 with 2864 views
Venezuela - a reality checks on 22:31 - May 22 by nice_to_michu
Firstly, I know how to spell America (yeh I said America, not the U.S., I hope you can understand my writing) you petty, pathetic fool. It's called a typo. Get over yourself.
Secondly, you're not the only one on this forum who has lived or worked in America (or American government for what it's worth) for a considerable amount of time. Again, get over yourself.
Thirdly, anyone who states things like "don't dare contradict me" in a discussion, I tend to giggle to myself and ignore much of what they previously said.
Lastly, I never said I want a Venezuela-esque economy. Neither capitalist or socialist extremes are attractive in my opinion.
Get. Over. Yourself. You. Arrogant. Individual.
P.S. you spelt Venezuela wrong. Please, learn how to spell it. You taught me that typos are unacceptable. Unless it wasn't a typo and you can't spell....
Bl00dy hell, never take advice from anyone who holds USA up as a country doing things well.
As said previously complete capitalism is an utterly failed and sickening system based on greed and lives only for oneself and creates a society that breeds the likes of Donald Trump.
Complete socialism will always fail because of people's greed and laziness also but a society built on socialist principles i.e Finland, other Scandinavian countries, New Zealand and even China to an extent will flourish.
Surely everyone would want to live in a society where people are treated as equals and given the opportunity to good healthcare and education?
Venezuela - a reality checks on 17:56 - May 22 by donkeylabour
Yes absolutely, this has always been the problem.
It's like antisemitism on the left, it's absolutely rife but it's denied constantly. If someone says anything about Islam they're an islamophobic disgusting racist.
It's levels of outrage, Muslims tend to be poorer than Jews and therefore require attention.
We'll excuse homophobia and sexism in Islamic culture, but any white man who utters anything remotely sexist or homophobic is a bigot who deserves derision and should be fired.
It's like a sickness.
Antisemitism isn't rife on the left tho - only anti Zionism.
And I for one hate Israel as a nation - cannot stand them and their apartheid regimes, illegal land grabbing and feeling of superiority that somehow makes them above any UN laws.
The irony that they have the same end goal with the Palestinians as the Nazis had with them appears to be lost on them.
But Jewish people, I have no issue with whatsoever. In fact there are large groundswell soft Jews across the world and living in Israel who deplore the actions of Israel.
Venezuela - a reality checks on 06:33 - May 23 by Magic_Michu
Antisemitism isn't rife on the left tho - only anti Zionism.
And I for one hate Israel as a nation - cannot stand them and their apartheid regimes, illegal land grabbing and feeling of superiority that somehow makes them above any UN laws.
The irony that they have the same end goal with the Palestinians as the Nazis had with them appears to be lost on them.
But Jewish people, I have no issue with whatsoever. In fact there are large groundswell soft Jews across the world and living in Israel who deplore the actions of Israel.
"Same end goal with the Palestinians"
What utter bollocks...
Agree on the settlements but the rest is utter crap. Such an apartheid state Israeli Arabs can gasp vote and have been elected to the Knesset...
Venezuela - a reality checks on 06:33 - May 23 by Magic_Michu
Antisemitism isn't rife on the left tho - only anti Zionism.
And I for one hate Israel as a nation - cannot stand them and their apartheid regimes, illegal land grabbing and feeling of superiority that somehow makes them above any UN laws.
The irony that they have the same end goal with the Palestinians as the Nazis had with them appears to be lost on them.
But Jewish people, I have no issue with whatsoever. In fact there are large groundswell soft Jews across the world and living in Israel who deplore the actions of Israel.
Are we still in that anti zionism bs?
Come off it, everytime I see any post with anti zionism there's linked to a global conspiracy centered around, banks, the media and 9/10 you'll see a load of rich business men who happen to be jewish front of the queue.
It's dog whistling plain and simple because it emanates from the left it can't possibly have an agenda, no of course not.
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
Yet the quality of life for a j6p living in a socialist european country is far far higher than countries like the US or UK. Fantastic universal health care, no worries about tuition fees, far better quality housing etc etc.
You can still become filthy rich if that's your thing ie the Ikea or Tetra Pak geeks.
Venezuela - a reality checks on 16:21 - May 22 by Davillin
to "Nice_to_Michu"
You asked, "America is obsessed with capitalism, as we all know. Should we look to Anerica as a shining example of how to care for its poor or its ill?"?" [p.s. Please learn to spell "Anerica" correctly, and learn that the name of this country is not "America," but "The United States" or "U.S." for short.]
Perhaps you wouldn't have to ask that question if you knew even a dot about American history -- political and social. I have lived it for 80 years. I can walk outside and down any street in my town and see people whose parents or grandparents came here with the clothes on their backs, but with the desire and intention to work hard and be successful in a capitalist system. And were successful. The evidence is everywhere for those who will look.
On the other hand, one of our political parties is not interested in that outcome, but prefers to be a nanny state and give to anyone who will accept it a free ride in life. No need to work, therefore no chance to be successful in the system. But the end result is poverty -- for those who accept that outcome, and others who, for one reason or another, either cannot work or cannot find work in the system being attacked by that same party.
Anyone who believes that the U.S. has or had a bad healthcare system falls for the lie that that same political party uses in order to convert the country against its collective will to what they euphemistically call "a single-payer system" so that they can add to the power they incessantly work to achieve.
It as never been a problem with our "healthcare" system, which has been and is the finest in the world. The problem, on the surface, is our health "insurance" system. Those who were gainfully employed in order to progress in our system were not complaining.
Even those who, for whatever reason, were unable to have a job had the same healthcare available to them. I once posted on here a list of healthcare programs in the States that, between them, provided free care to everyone here who needed it. The list contained over 10 or 15 programs. Of course, now we have "Obamacare," which is clearly turning out to be an abject failure, after having taken away some or most of the systems of insuring or providing healthcare.
Imagine the effect on people who worked and paid for their own health insurance being told that they could no longer have that insurance, but were required by the federal government to take an Obamacare insurer and policy -- one size fits all -- and every year have to pay multiples more than they ever paid for their private insurance. It is now at the breaking point, if not breaking. The clearly stated intentions of Obamacare were to have young people, who neither needed nor wanted that policy, pay premiums used to cover those who couldn't afford it, and to have those who could afford the new premiums do the same. Until the premiums -- required by law, remember -- got too high to pay for some, and are getting too high for the rest.
With regard to "the poor," that same political party has been systematically degrading our economy by several dunderheaded programs. Burdens of taxation and insane rules and regulations on employers large and small are the worst because they drive employers either out of business or out of the country, taking untold numbers of jobs with them. As are the so-called "fair trade" agreements. Don't dare contradict me, please, because I have been observing it happen, as factory after factory close, sit empty for a time, and then are demolished because they were blights.
So, "Nice_to_Michu," you may look to Veneziuela if you prefer. My guess is that you know as little about its history -- political and economic.
Or, on the other hand, to China -- once the most virulently socialist/communist country on the planet -- who has been stealthily allowing capitalism to thrive.
I couldn't care less about what America does to itself but it's globalized agenda I despise.
The US have been trying to get their hands on Venezuelan assets and the Venezuelans aren't having it.So they are being deliberately destabilized like countless other countries that wouldn't play ball.
Great video with John Perkins and the tactics he describes have given us ISIS, the Arab "spring" , an unstable and lawless Libya and the Taliban/Mujahadeen.
The Vietnamese were of the very few countries able to resist and look what it cost them. The US central bank , the IMF and the world bank have caused havoc around the globe for many years and it's showing no signs of stopping.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
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Venezuela - a reality checks on 15:41 - May 23 with 2681 views
Lots of money to be made peddling conspiracy theory books.
EDIT : One of his examples was Indonesia. Yet mortality fell, infant mortality fell, illiteracy fell. I guess he's a funny idea of what a "hit man" is.
Venezuela - a reality checks on 15:24 - May 23 by Brynmill_Jack
I couldn't care less about what America does to itself but it's globalized agenda I despise.
The US have been trying to get their hands on Venezuelan assets and the Venezuelans aren't having it.So they are being deliberately destabilized like countless other countries that wouldn't play ball.
Great video with John Perkins and the tactics he describes have given us ISIS, the Arab "spring" , an unstable and lawless Libya and the Taliban/Mujahadeen.
The Vietnamese were of the very few countries able to resist and look what it cost them. The US central bank , the IMF and the world bank have caused havoc around the globe for many years and it's showing no signs of stopping.
It's an interesting post, but I'm not sold on it sorry mate.
I think the idea that the US and large institutions like the IMF just go around destabilizing countries is a little far-fetched.
As bluey said, there's a lot of money to be made peddling around conspiracy theories and the like.
The truth is, some countries have work themselves into trouble and then elect far-right or far-left presidents (eg. Hugo Chavez in Venezuela) who then just become dictators.
[Post edited 23 May 2016 17:12]
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Venezuela - a reality checks on 17:42 - May 23 with 2639 views
Venezuela - a reality checks on 15:41 - May 23 by blueytheblue
Depends if you believe Perkins is credible.
Lots of money to be made peddling conspiracy theory books.
EDIT : One of his examples was Indonesia. Yet mortality fell, infant mortality fell, illiteracy fell. I guess he's a funny idea of what a "hit man" is.
[Post edited 23 May 2016 15:47]
Mossadeq, Saddam Hussein, Gadaffi, Omar Torrijos (Panama), Jaime Roldos (Equador). All have stood up to the US and paid with their lives.
The first two were to do with oil , Gadaffi his oil and his desire to change the whole of Africa's currency tthe gold dinar, deposing the US Dollar and bringing Africa out of poverty. The latin American presidents both wanted prrogressive agendas for their countries but were contrary to US foreign policy and expaqnsionist agenda.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
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Venezuela - a reality checks on 17:44 - May 23 with 2637 views
Venezuela - a reality checks on 17:11 - May 23 by nice_to_michu
It's an interesting post, but I'm not sold on it sorry mate.
I think the idea that the US and large institutions like the IMF just go around destabilizing countries is a little far-fetched.
As bluey said, there's a lot of money to be made peddling around conspiracy theories and the like.
The truth is, some countries have work themselves into trouble and then elect far-right or far-left presidents (eg. Hugo Chavez in Venezuela) who then just become dictators.
he seems like the type of uncivilised monster who would take money away from disabled people. Oh, hang on, that's happening here..............................
[Post edited 23 May 2016 17:46]
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
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Venezuela - a reality checks on 18:10 - May 23 with 2610 views
Venezuela - a reality checks on 17:42 - May 23 by Brynmill_Jack
Mossadeq, Saddam Hussein, Gadaffi, Omar Torrijos (Panama), Jaime Roldos (Equador). All have stood up to the US and paid with their lives.
The first two were to do with oil , Gadaffi his oil and his desire to change the whole of Africa's currency tthe gold dinar, deposing the US Dollar and bringing Africa out of poverty. The latin American presidents both wanted prrogressive agendas for their countries but were contrary to US foreign policy and expaqnsionist agenda.
Yes, Gadaffi was looking to bring Africa out of poverty. Why he was a regular Bob Geldof, known for his philanthropic ways...
As for Chavez, no real surprise Counterpunch back him is it? Corbyn, Owen Jones, Dianne Abbot that kind of ilk...
Venezuela - a reality checks on 17:11 - May 23 by nice_to_michu
It's an interesting post, but I'm not sold on it sorry mate.
I think the idea that the US and large institutions like the IMF just go around destabilizing countries is a little far-fetched.
As bluey said, there's a lot of money to be made peddling around conspiracy theories and the like.
The truth is, some countries have work themselves into trouble and then elect far-right or far-left presidents (eg. Hugo Chavez in Venezuela) who then just become dictators.
[Post edited 23 May 2016 17:12]
Libya is a shining example of U.S. foreign policy . Destabilised by the U.S. on the orders of the USCB all because Gaddaffi wanted to shake off the slaverly of the Dollar. The Mossadeq example is well documented , been quite a few documentaries on that subject recently.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
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Venezuela - a reality checks on 18:17 - May 23 with 2606 views
Venezuela - a reality checks on 18:10 - May 23 by Brynmill_Jack
Libya is a shining example of U.S. foreign policy . Destabilised by the U.S. on the orders of the USCB all because Gaddaffi wanted to shake off the slaverly of the Dollar. The Mossadeq example is well documented , been quite a few documentaries on that subject recently.
Any particular evidence the US destabilised Libya on the orders of USCB because Gadaffi wanted to shake off the "slaverly" of the dollar?
Mossadeq? Not denying USAs interference at times, but something that happened over 60 years ago? England have won a world cup since then...
Speaking of Venezuela - this is a hilarious story that aired just last night from John Oliver (a British American who has a weekly Sunday night show on HBO called Last Week Tonight).
I've gone on record before that I truly hate socialism, communism, and any other kind of collectivism. But it sounds like the problems in Venezuela is more attributable to the goofy nutcase in charge more than any ideology.
Speaking of Venezuela - this is a hilarious story that aired just last night from John Oliver (a British American who has a weekly Sunday night show on HBO called Last Week Tonight).
I've gone on record before that I truly hate socialism, communism, and any other kind of collectivism. But it sounds like the problems in Venezuela is more attributable to the goofy nutcase in charge more than any ideology.
No no. 'murica's fault.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Venezuela - a reality checks on 18:59 - May 23 with 2563 views
Venezuela - a reality checks on 18:10 - May 23 by Brynmill_Jack
Libya is a shining example of U.S. foreign policy . Destabilised by the U.S. on the orders of the USCB all because Gaddaffi wanted to shake off the slaverly of the Dollar. The Mossadeq example is well documented , been quite a few documentaries on that subject recently.
Speaking of Venezuela - this is a hilarious story that aired just last night from John Oliver (a British American who has a weekly Sunday night show on HBO called Last Week Tonight).
I've gone on record before that I truly hate socialism, communism, and any other kind of collectivism. But it sounds like the problems in Venezuela is more attributable to the goofy nutcase in charge more than any ideology.
I'm pretty certain you don't hate 'any kind of collectivism' Tummer.
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Venezuela - a reality checks on 18:19 - May 24 with 2457 views
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