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What's undeniable is that under JFH the results have been mediocre at best and the quality of football hasn't improved. No doubt he's still in the process of trying to figure things out, but that doesn't fully explain the lack of application in some games, the lack of tactics and frequent failure to adapt during games.
But, he's a rookie manager we got from League 1 and we got quite a few of our players from League 1 too so perhaps we should expect some League 1 performances.
What's undeniable is that under JFH the results have been mediocre at best and the quality of football hasn't improved. No doubt he's still in the process of trying to figure things out, but that doesn't fully explain the lack of application in some games, the lack of tactics and frequent failure to adapt during games.
But, he's a rookie manager we got from League 1 and we got quite a few of our players from League 1 too so perhaps we should expect some League 1 performances.
Fair points - as long as we don't go on to complete the full cycle and end up in ...er...League 1.
Proper little drama queens if someone posts against the "tide" At least Arry got us wins in this lge, while this inept specimen is STILL looking to gel the players. Btw Birmingham were terrible last week. Stop kidding yourselves
Anyone that includes the deadly phrase "at least Harry........ " in a post needs to dial 999 and ask for a brain scan. Or preferably a lump of lead between the eyes.
I've just come back from the community centre after watching Leicester beat Watford. Now that's the way I want QPR to play - the Leicester way is what the QPR way used to be in the 60's & 70's. Team work, 50/50 balls are always ours, 25/75's not a lost cause, and every one running off the ball to give the ball carrier a choice.
It's not rocket science. It's just that money gets in the way of getting there.
"Don't we all want to be in the Premier?" "No" x 18,777 times.
Why does it feel like R'SWiPe is still on the books? Yer Couldn't Make It Up.Well Done Me!
Anyone that includes the deadly phrase "at least Harry........ " in a post needs to dial 999 and ask for a brain scan. Or preferably a lump of lead between the eyes.
I've just come back from the community centre after watching Leicester beat Watford. Now that's the way I want QPR to play - the Leicester way is what the QPR way used to be in the 60's & 70's. Team work, 50/50 balls are always ours, 25/75's not a lost cause, and every one running off the ball to give the ball carrier a choice.
It's not rocket science. It's just that money gets in the way of getting there.
"Don't we all want to be in the Premier?" "No" x 18,777 times.
ShotKnees is always vigilant for any sign of Arryism.
Well that is your opinion dane. Thankyou for being a bit more creative than just calling me names. Can I just say it is my opinion that we have not got better under the present manager.
I bet you wanted the last manager out aswell though didn't you !
How many more managers will it take for you to realise the manager might not be the problem
Sure, we must be reasonable, we have to wait. For what, though? And for how long? It will be a major change of policy not just at the Club, but among the supporters, too, if JFH gets any longer than any of his predecessors to turn things round. And he may already be aware that when something good HAS come along at QPR - and that goes all the way back to Gregory and Stock 50 years ago - even the Managers with two or three good years behind them were gone in a few months when they failed to fulfil the short-term need to win.
Either they weren't given the time to get things right a second time - despite having done so at least once, and in Stock's time at QPR, twice, including the early 60s side - or they didn't want it (like Sexton and Venables). Essentially, we haven't had anyone, ever, who lasted very long.
Except, of course, Gregory himself.
Giving the manager a chance means nothing more than giving him a chance to start winning. And if he can't do it now, then he needs to start pretty soon. JFH's recent run looked promising, and no doubt he hasn't been here long enough to get it right, but isn't that Dave's point? Going by what we've seen over the last 20 years, he isn't going to GET long enough.
Not because he hasn't got what it takes, but because the Club hasn't. The people who run QPR have never built up a fund of know-how that tells the Club when a losing run - or a run like JFH's which isn't either a losing or a winning run - indicates that things are getting better, and today's defeats will become draws, while yesterday's draws will become wins.
Nobody ever seems to have the slightest idea. Any more than they seem to have any idea why they appointed the current manager except that he isn't the last guy, and they got tired of him.
To know that the foundations of ACTUAL improvement HAVE already been laid, that is a ery different thing. But that brings us back to Dave's original point. How do we know? The only real evidence is winning, and, short of that, playing well enough to give us good reason to think that the wins will follow soon.
Dave's logic - instant success - is exactly what QPR's is. We don't win, we get rid of the Manager. Even the voices saying we should give him time only mean we should give him time to start winning, if the past is anything to go by.
QPR doesn't seem to have any framework on which a Manager CAN build. We just slot one in, wait a short time, no fireworks, and he's out in very short order. And as Warnock, Holloway and Redknapp can testify, even when there has been fireworks, promotions, even, play-off Final appearances even, the Club has remained just as reluctant to put in place a structure to provide the support necessary to JUSTIFY our waiting for things to improve.
To date, it looks as though they've deemed it easier to just sack the bloke, and start again, raising all the same expectations they did with the one they just sacked for not fulfilling them.
With a system like that, the kind of manager who comes in, and turns things round very quickly IS probably what we need.
Short-term. Trouble is, that kind of manager is usually gone pretty quickly. And, I suspect, for the same reason that the others are. There are no foundations on which he CAN build something more enduring, and, of course, his talents will always be in demand, in part because he has the know-how, if only in a limited way, that Clubs like QPR conspicuously lack.
It is too easy to react to what seem like simplistic responses - 'get a guy like the Rotherham guy who wins right from the off' - if our complaint is, itself, the familiar and equally simplistic response - 'give JFH (or whoever) time'.
To date, we never really have given them time, even when a few managers HAVE got improved results and/or performances more or less right from the off. And that, I think, is also down to the Club's having no framework on which a Manager CAN develop the playing side, and no fund of know-how, experience and insight by means of which we can understand WHAT STAGE of that development we're going through, and how the performances which aren't getting us wins now ACTUALLY ARE the basis for future success.
We just tell ourselves that it's so. With this manager. Like the one before. And the one before that. And so on.
So much money, so much to play for, so many 'professionals', and yet no-one seems to have any idea. We're playing much the same sort of football we've been playing for the last 20 years, with comparable results, most of the time, even when the Club had pots of money in the Premiership.
Given that, it is easy to see why 'the Manager' is so seductive. It is exactly what Dave suggests. Because 'the Manager' can turn everything around.
Old Timers remember - or think they remember - when the Manager was just a name in small print at the bottom of the back page of the match programme. Trainer, or Coach, or Manager. Just took training, shouted at them a bit, and that was it. Then a few Managers made a name for themselves - tactically, or motivationally, or in their recruitment, or the formation they played - and the Game in general failed to make the distinction between the unusual ones - the winners - and the rest. Now every Manager has tactics and formations,. sees himself as a motivator, and as someone capable of identifying talent - and he CAN'T be.
But at least the guy who turns Clubs round quickly - if, almost inevitably, in the short term - does SOMETHING. All the guys we've had that we gave 'time' to mostly achieved nothing.
Of its very nature, a winning team is a rarity. At all but a handful of Clubs, a season which is pretty good is a rarity too. Smaller Clubs overperform, then subside, as things even out, and they slip back into the chasing pack, or worse.
The winners are always doing something different. If we're looking for that unusual specimen, a Manager who is good enough to be worth keeping, and grateful enough to QPR to want to stay, even when it is obvious we need him but he doesn't need us, then Dave's formula - or an enhanced one that enables us to get a long-term winner, is required.
If that is asking too much, and we should be thinking long term, and giving the Manager time, surely we need to give him SOMETHING TO DO WITH ALL THAT BLOODY TIME! To date, we never seem to do that. He's just left high and dry, with the supporters just waiting for everything to turn out right without any real effort, any real understanding, or any real practical experience of HOW TO DO IT.
I wish JFH luck. He'll need it, and he'll need to be good. But maybe Managers know that, and aren't all that bothered. Maybe they know that most Clubs have no idea whether they're good or not, and most Clubs don't know what kind of support they need to make the most of any talent they might possess.
Perhaps that is why they drift through six months or a year or so, and then drift off somewhere else, and on and on. It's a job, it's well paid, and there's always a new challenge round the corner.
I bet you wanted the last manager out aswell though didn't you !
How many more managers will it take for you to realise the manager might not be the problem
Not the last one no.!
Can you explain to me why results are pretty much the same as when Ramsey was in charge yet you blame the chairman? Or do you blame Les? You see the chairman doesn't pick the team or the manager these days but you call me a plum for complaining about p*ss poor results like today, away to a team that is in the bottom 4 and lowest scorers in the lge
Let's all calm down. We should have steamrollered MK playing Polter from the start. Can't blame some people for grumbling when we get done by a team that have scarcely scored a goal in there last six games. Poor team selection by whoever you want to believe picked the team. You can go on as much as you like about mId table, this game isn't important and it's good to try things out but losing to MK is demoralising. We need a few wins to give the team confidence. This was a wasted opportunity. Don't blame the players.
Can you explain to me why results are pretty much the same as when Ramsey was in charge yet you blame the chairman? Or do you blame Les? You see the chairman doesn't pick the team or the manager these days but you call me a plum for complaining about p*ss poor results like today, away to a team that is in the bottom 4 and lowest scorers in the lge
Oh you mean Warnock who people like you wanted out the first time
Simple answer to your question is why is Mark Hughes doing a decent job at Stoke and done well eveywhere similar clubs to us yet failed at Rangers
And yes you're a plum to me who judges everything by a result . We win one week we're brilliant yet lose amd we're the worst team ever and should sack the manager
As for MK dons being in the bottom 4 cast your mind back to the mid 90's when a shit Swindon team took 6 points off and we're actually good then
Oh you mean Warnock who people like you wanted out the first time
Simple answer to your question is why is Mark Hughes doing a decent job at Stoke and done well eveywhere similar clubs to us yet failed at Rangers
And yes you're a plum to me who judges everything by a result . We win one week we're brilliant yet lose amd we're the worst team ever and should sack the manager
As for MK dons being in the bottom 4 cast your mind back to the mid 90's when a shit Swindon team took 6 points off and we're actually good then
Why do you say I wanted NW out?. I didn't.
Erm if I'm a plum you're a basket of em. I never said we were brilliant last week, ask Norvern, he'll complain to you that I never made a squeak.
Look you want to blame Tony for all the bad things in your life then carry on ol pal. (see what I did there? Made stuff up you said, like you're doing to me ) But the bottom line is Les, & Hoos are running the club, and Jimmy, + staff train & pick the team.
Let's all calm down. We should have steamrollered MK playing Polter from the start. Can't blame some people for grumbling when we get done by a team that have scarcely scored a goal in there last six games. Poor team selection by whoever you want to believe picked the team. You can go on as much as you like about mId table, this game isn't important and it's good to try things out but losing to MK is demoralising. We need a few wins to give the team confidence. This was a wasted opportunity. Don't blame the players.
Defeats are hard enough without this bollocks. You are like a pig in shit every time Rangers lose.
This.
And by the way since you don't believe in being offensive QPRDave, it's obviously a different QPRDave who called Northern a not very intelligent man and pathetic.
Or is it only not all right for people to have a go at you? And no I'm not part of Northern's gang. But I do believe, as do Antii and Neil, he writes reasoned, well-argued, often witty and knowledgable posts that are interesting and entertaining whether or not you agree with them.
Defeats are hard enough without this bollocks. You are like a pig in shit every time Rangers lose.
Bazza go away and sober up ffs.
You start threads about how you don't care what the result is, and mock those that are fed up, which leads me to ask, why bother being on here if you really care so little?
Ok. 18 games or so. 3 good performances. Rest more or less mediocre or utter crxp. Changed the players signed some news ones and got rid of some of the bad wood. Those still here loaned out. And still we are playing sometimes like our arsxs have swallowed ours heads. Whats wrong? Dont think we can blane the players all the time .... Jfh i got the trust in you but sort it out. Mk dons 2-0... For fxcks sake...
And by the way since you don't believe in being offensive QPRDave, it's obviously a different QPRDave who called Northern a not very intelligent man and pathetic.
Or is it only not all right for people to have a go at you? And no I'm not part of Northern's gang. But I do believe, as do Antii and Neil, he writes reasoned, well-argued, often witty and knowledgable posts that are interesting and entertaining whether or not you agree with them.
You, not so much....
Well answer me this, do 2 wrongs make a right?
If I'm so wrong and offensive to Northern then being a "witty and knowledgeable" chap I would've expected a higher brow reply I have also been informed I will be banned for insults, and I don't want that so have calmed my posting down.
Just back 1st half pretty solid 2nd half with the shift at full back we went to pot
As for Dave biggest plum to grace this board since Mathew Doren
I was only listening on the radio, but they had us as having completely controlled the first half (away from home of course). Then Grant Hall went off, shifted the defence around and clearly it hasn't helped.
If I'm so wrong and offensive to Northern then being a "witty and knowledgeable" chap I would've expected a higher brow reply I have also been informed I will be banned for insults, and I don't want that so have calmed my posting down.
Btw a difference of opinion is what I have.
Thing is, unless you think we're in danger of relegation there's no way we should be sacking JFH. He may not be the answer, he doesn't appear to have any experience of rebuilding clubs but there's no point changing him before the summer.
As others have said we need to look beyond the manager to see what's wrong with the club. We've been working on a short term basis for years patching up and passing problems onto the next man to get through the current season with no long term plan. Just look at NW and his championship winning team, helguson, kenny, hill and derry - not really built with the future in mind. Don't get me wrong it was a fantastic team but left us under prepared for life in the premier league. Same with Redknapps team although a hell of a lot more expensive to assemble.
Anyway two (three if you include last Jan with Redknapp) transfer windows isn't enough to rectify years of poor planning. At least now we have LF and LH to work on the day to day running of the club instead of the old regime and if JFH doesn't work out so be it but we may as well give home more time to show us what he can do.
You start threads about how you don't care what the result is, and mock those that are fed up, which leads me to ask, why bother being on here if you really care so little?
Night
Well, because winning isn't the bee all and end all to lots of us. It would be nice of course.
We've had such a sh!te few seasons, i think everybody just wants to try and recover in peace for a little while. Give the guys in charge some time to try and change things around. It does feel energy sapping to know each time we have a bad result (nearly every match) we have to read such negative, hateful stuff. It surely also contributes to the bad atmosphere in the stands, which in turn contributes to the bad performances and results on the pitch. Toszer and Henry are struggling for one reason only; they are scared to have the ball because of their own fans. They aren't cr@p, the QPR fans have made them cr@p.
Easy to understand your frustration, I'm sure nobody is thrilled, but Jimmy's only just come in. Chris Ramsey was never given long enough. I mean, we are a cr@p team. Apart from Adel and Charlie, we've been cr@p for ages. You can't just bring in a new manager and turn into a good team easily. Unless you're Leicester.
Not trying to have a pop mate, it's just some of us hate all the constant negativity, even if it's justified. Ther's enough negativity in life as it is what with the corruption, ISIS, pollution and all the rest of it, football is supposed to be... a source of pleasure?
Whoever our manager was/is, we'll still be sh!t.
Anyway, enough from me. Back to my coffee. I just never take pleasure in seeing Rangers fans haranguing each other all the time and it's constant nowadays.
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