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Reply | Surprising How Many
at 13:31 18 Mar 2016
The simple and obvious answer is because much like this thread, some person will decide to make it their business and say:-
"why are you selling tickets for the smaller games. Bet you wouldnt be selling if it were Man United" ...or such like.
There is a major "I am a better fan than you, when did you start going?" mentality amongst our fanbase and some are automatically defending themselves for the inevitable incoming Spanish inquisition. Hence the explanation attached to ticket ads I assume.
It really isnt a problem though, go outside for some fresh air man. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 16:58 12 Feb 2016
I will say allegedly actually, as I have not looked at this case in detail. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 16:56 12 Feb 2016
Its not that, i think that currently if a 16 year old wants to sleep with a 26 year old then thats up to her, if the age was lowered to 15 then again, its up to her. I am not of the opinion that you can dictate to people who they may and may not sleep with when of legal age. Johnson slept with someone not of legal age so will face the consequences. Thats that really. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 16:52 12 Feb 2016
They don't have to make the rules. The rules are set due to what reflects modern society. So I think it is inevitable that the age will come down regardless. There has already been a relatively recent lobby I seem to remember. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 16:50 12 Feb 2016
I have no idea, that is down to the clubs. No i wouldn't want someone who makes such idiotic decisions playing for my club, personality is a vital part in the making of a player. But I wouldnt think he would be a menace or anything of that nature if that is what you are alluding to? |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 16:46 12 Feb 2016
Because I am a happily married man in my twenties most probably. Do you have to campaign and march the streets for every opinion you hold then? Or are you just trying to twist an argument as you cannot debate sensibly?
I would wager if you asked this girl would she like the age of consent lowered to 15, she would say yes. As would every sexually active 15 year old, of which there are tens of thousands in this country alone. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 15:50 12 Feb 2016
And that is your right to. The jury's job is not to find personal disgust but decide what law has been broken and to what degree. He has pleaded guilty so the first part is easy, the second part however is the tricky bit. Considering she was months away from the age of consent in this country rather than years I dont feel he will be given maximum penalty.
My guess is 18 months in prison, halved with good behaviour. 9 months total. Which will probably be enough to make him realise how very very stupid he has been. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 15:45 12 Feb 2016
It's not just cultural differences but societal. Austria, Germany, Portugal and Italy it is 14. France, the Czech Republic, Denmark, and Greece it is 15. These are western modern Christian countries... our neighbours for goodness sake.
I think distasteful was a good word used in this thread and that is exactly how I feel about this case. Its laden with stupidity, modern celebrity culture and distasteful in the extreme. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 15:29 12 Feb 2016
Twenty six year old man, if we added two years on to her she would be seventeen and not an issue. So the same courtesy must be paid to the accused.
As discussed, "grooming" is an emotive and often misleading word. If you text someone while intending to have sex with them - then you are grooming in the eyes of the law, yet if you said "sickened by them texting eachother" it suddenly doesn't seem that bad.
However you said my views sicken you didnt you? Not what they did. My view is essentially based on fact. The average age of consent in Europe is 15. My view is he is stupid beyind belief, but not a monster as some are falling over themselves to try and make out.
The age of consent is made to broadly cover everybody as some people develop and mature later than others, it is not case specific. Considering many people are sexually actuve these days at 15/16 thats why most of Europe has a lower consent rate, ours will also follow eventually. I just cannot fathom the venom in these posts towards him, you would swear that if hanging was still around many would be in favour of sending him to the gallows. Crazy.
He will learn his lesson, he will do a short time in the nick and hopefully he and her can put it behind them and live decent lives. [Post edited 12 Feb 2016 15:33]
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 14:27 12 Feb 2016
Is the correct answer. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 14:25 12 Feb 2016
You are sickened by what exactly? That i dont think he should be hung, or that I quite rightly make the observation that consent rates in Europe is 15 on average?
I dont think there is anything to be sickened about really, other than someone not joining in a witch hunt to string some guy up, when in reality he will probably do 10 months. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 08:11 12 Feb 2016
No Western forward thinking country has 13 the legal age.
Italy is 14, France is 15. Would i bring it down to that level? Maybe. Certainly 15. Which is the average European age of consent, and reflects the modern day society far more realistically than 16 where by which most have lost their virginity.
It isn't irrelevant, you cant expect them to shoulder blame for one offence and then in an other be completely devoid of rational thought. Where is the evidence she was manipulated then?
Of course money and a good peofession is a draw to the opposite sex, it is at all ages. Which is why I believe it was a two way thing and there was no convincing at all. Because common sense suggests no convincing would be needed for those exact reasons you highlighted. [Post edited 12 Feb 2016 8:13]
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 07:48 12 Feb 2016
She absolutely is also to blame, she doesnt shoukder the majority of the blame I agree, but some, absolutely. they both were fully aware of the situation, to suggest otherwise is naive.
You are talking about 15 year olds as if they are idiotic morons devoid of any common sense or moralistic values. You know Wayne Rooney was a professional footballer scoring against Arsenal at 15 right? Say he murdered your wife, would you say "awww bless, he had absolutely no idea what he was doing, probably influenced by some online game". No.
It makes no difference how much he earns, it makes no difference what his job is (was). A 26 year old, for my money, is also still very young man indeed. I have no idea why in order to argue with my opinion people are changing what I am saying, probably due to the fact that there isnt enough material to argue with - but where have I suggested she "is a bit of a slag" then?
Far from it. Sexually active people are not "slags". She may have liked him, she still may do. But I have no doubt it was a two way thing, of course it was. I dont believe she needed "convincing" at all... And lets not forget, there is no accusation that any convincing took place. The term grooming, in this case, means they were texting fully aware of eachothers age and still wishing to have sexual contact.
Your question is not relevant regarding what age I would not not consider blame on the younger party - as in a situation like this (a two way underage sex case) I dont think the younger party would be in this situation if they were not sexually developed both mentally and physically.
Some are confusing underage sex (by a matter of months and legal in most european countries) with pedophillic rape. They are quite different and which is why he will barely barely serve 10 months in my opinion. [Post edited 12 Feb 2016 8:07]
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 03:41 12 Feb 2016
Thats a shame, you started off so promisingly.
I cant understand how you think she is not to blame also. It takes two to tango, do you think she didn't know she was underage then? You arent giving teens of this country much credit are you?
Im not sure what world you live in but we are talking young women here, not 8 year olds. She was fully aware she was entering into sexual activity with a professional footballer and was bragging about it on Facebook. To think she isn't to blame as well is just naive.
If that makes you want to call me names then so be it. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 01:40 12 Feb 2016
But I equally havent said it "was a mistake", "harmless texting" or "bit of fun" either have I? I have also not seen anybody (certainly not me) make out that he is "a bit of a lad" or "that it's her fault".
It's like you are making up my stance and arguing against it. I've said nothing like what you have said there... not once. I think cheating in your partner is abhorrant in itself for example.
But they are BOTH at fault. She should be feeling pretty bad right now that she played a part in this, and he should feel awful at how silly he has been and being the older and presumably more mature person should rightly shoulder more of the blame and should have put a stop to it.
Ireland is higher, you are correct (17). However Ireland and the UK (16) have the highest consent precedents in Europe (top 6). It's quite an anomily in comparison as the average age is in fact 15 in Europe. Again, we are talking a matter of months between what is technically legal and illegal in this particular country.
He will rightly do some jail time, but I doubt it will be much to reflect the nature of the offence. I think he would be out within 10 months with a very valuable lesson learned. [Post edited 12 Feb 2016 1:51]
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 01:30 12 Feb 2016
Not sure I completely agree on your analysis of Lisa.
I understand what she is saying, I even can completely see her point of view. The difference is, where other people are able to understand that opinions are formed from a base of personal experience, she may think that the only experiences worth forming an opinion from - are hers. This isnt indicative of Lisa, many people do it. I do sometimes too, although i try not to.
I can guarantee she is older than me by at least a generation. That is why I completely understand her point. Id imagine if I was from that generation then I may share the same opinion. But coming from the same generation of Johnson and knowing how these teens and twenty somethings act these days, gives me first hand experience of what the world, and people in general, are like these days.
The world is sex mad. It has been a combination of TV influence, celebrity infatuation, and the booming of the internet porn industry which has seen sex become an every day part of teenagers lives. Its sad really, and much prefer the innocent view of the world that once was had by these teens decades ago.
For as long as I can remember thr UK has been quite reserved when it comes to sex. That has rubbed off on our kids too which is why our age of consent has remained one of the highest in Europe. However those days are outdated and long gone, we are probably now on par with the likes of Sweden when it comes to promiscuity and attitude towards sex. I have no doubt as a result you will see the age of consent tumbling in the future to be more in line with the likes of France and the rest of Europe, i believe in 2013 it was lobbied and rejected for a change to 15.
But it is always going to be a touchy subject and as I keep repeating is incredibly case soecific. What is impirtant is we are able to respect eachothers opinions. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 01:12 12 Feb 2016
No, he has done wrong. No denying it.
The argument is he is not a pedophile, he has just had relations with a girl who in many large western european countries is of legal age (France, Italy Sweden etc), where as here she is a matter of months under.
He will now be punished accordingly. Thats the long and the short of it. But to make out he is some predatory monster who has commited unspeakable acts on a unwitting child is just wrong, and sadly indicative of the sensationalist witch hunt mentality which has developed in this country and people seem to revel in. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 00:48 12 Feb 2016
Its just a generation thing I think. The age of consent is being lowered as society changes. I genuinelly think 40-50 year olds still think of 15 year olds as how they were back in the day. The world has changed in that respect.
The age of consent in Italy, Portugal, Hungary etc is 14 years old.
The age of consent in France, Denmark, Sweden, Monaco, Greece, Iceland etc is 15 years old.
So these people are "monsters" in England and should be hanged, but ok in France and Sweden, which are pretty rational western forward thinking countries. Not to mention our 15 year olds are seen as incapable of making adult decisions in our country where as in France and Italy they are given the respect they deserve and not thought of as silly impressionable people.
I'm not comfortable personally with such an age gap, but neither am I with a 50 year old with a 25 year old, just personal preferance.
But im not willing to jump on the bandwagon in cases such as these where we are talking a matter of months between "legal" and "illegal" and even perfectly legal in many large European countries not even 100 miles from our border, knowing full well how sexually active and grown up these young men and women are today.
From what I understand, it was not a one way thing as trying to be portrayed here and I wouldnt have thought it would be for one second. [Post edited 12 Feb 2016 0:54]
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 00:35 12 Feb 2016
Sexually mature meaning someone willingly wishing to enter into a sexual relationship. More than willing partner because she was bragging about her conquests on facebook which is how it came to light and her father called the police. This is what I have kearned about the case, feel free to enlighten me if you have another version which would make me rethink my stance.
The difference is you see this girl being needed to be persuaded to have sex, where as people who understand what teens are like today know that that probably couldnt be further from the truth. Times change, if you think 15 year olds are busy playing hop scotch and playing conkers then you are sadly mistaken. The majority of 15 year olds are sexually active these days, I guarantee it. |
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Reply | Adam Johnson
at 00:28 12 Feb 2016
It is personal opinion isnt it, i know many people who see mid twenties as kids. Its barely out of uni in many cases. So asking me at what point I find it disgusting isnt really relevant. Id say Hugh Heffners antics are pretty disgusting, what is he 80? And sleeping with 20 year olds, crazy really. Id say that was disgusting on their part though not his. Wouldn't you?
When I was 15 id fall over myself to sleep with Britney Spears as would 99.9% of others (pre shaven head days of course). We are talking a matter of a few months between lawfully legal and illegal, thats why I refuse to label him a monster as some seemingly wish to do. I didnt consider myself a child at that age, so its case specific. the law has to broad however to protect those that arent quite sexually mature of course, which is perfectly understandable. And which is why he will be found guilty and punished.
He wont be doing that again in a hurry and a vital lesson learned (to him and others) as rich and famous young men who will find themselves in situations where these girls will be seeking their affections. [Post edited 12 Feb 2016 0:29]
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