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I think I remember an interview with Tony Roberts that when he retired because of a finger injury he got a 100 grand pay-out. But when he solved the problem by using a splint in his glove, he decided to start playing professionally again and had to pay the insurance money back.
I would be very suprised if there is a footballer in the Championship who doesn't have this kind of insurance.
Gutted to hear the news. Ale has been the one player I've really enjoyed watching over recent years. His loyalty and integrity has never been questioned but to receive wages for another ACL injury and another year out is maybe to much. I do believe he should be given a 1 year extension. Maybe he should go down the same line as our own Oguchi Onyewu when at AC Milan when he declined to get paid for a whole year. It a tough position to be in. Hope Ale will recover and see him in a hooped shirt soon.
and my guess is they will offer him something but not a lot as sadly the guy has no real option but to take anything we offer now
No you didn't - this is exactly what you said:-
"give him a two year contract but on a lesser wage say £7-10,000 a week with improvesments once he has proved his fitness
i still remember the way macca was shown the door after all those years of service then finally got back in with waddock only to be shown door again
theres very little love in football when it comes to money
even £10,000 a week would add up to over half a million a season
I we are promoted we could easily take the gamble on him but if we dont go up i can see us needed to make serious cuts
glad its his other leg ,if same one i would really fear that he was finished but he's cme back strong and can now come back stronger! "
You didn't say anything about "BUT if up to me then no new contract as not worth the gamble". In fact your first sentence alludes to the fact that you would be happy giving him a two year deal on 7 to 10 grand a week, no? Obviously that's not what you meant, but don't just make stuff up. Just say "sorry, what I meant to say was....."
Well his current contract runs to the end of June next year. By that time both he and the Club will hopefully have some idea of his progress and a decision can be made then.
Well his current contract runs to the end of June next year. By that time both he and the Club will hopefully have some idea of his progress and a decision can be made then.
Exactly...I think people's are getting a bit carried away and/or their maths is pretty poor!
The end of June, when his contract expires, is a full 8 months from the injury.
"Full" recovery time from ACL reconstruction nowadays is 9 months. I know this, I've going through it now. I had the worse rupture you can have. I'm also not a professional sportsman, work 5 days a week so an unable to do rehab "full time" and only have the cover to see my physio once a month. Ale is a professional sportsman, will be able to do rehab "full time" and will be subject to the best physio support day on day out.
He will be be fully fit by the start of next season at worst. His knee will be strong enough after 7 months to undertake pre-season training from a fitness perspective. The only issue is his game time will be limited meaning he won't be "match sharp" come next season's ko. This should take 1-2 months of well handled training, reservice and first team appearances to develop.
So, we're looking at having him 100% again by October 2014....at the worst. The above our all cautious estimates. He was was starting in the first team inside 9 months last time, I believe and the most recent high profile sporting ACL injury - Tiger Wood's wife, the skier - was skiing competively again inside 7 months.
Given all that, it would be mad not to give him a 1 yr deal. The risk is minimal as he's likely to be available for almost all the season. If either knee goes again during that season then you're on liable to pay him till June '15.
All this talk of him taking a pay cut, not taking pay, etc is nonsense. He's be fully fit by October at the absolute worse.
Informed and positive,Hunter. That's cleared up a lot of the wilder conjecture. Good to read.
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
Will he not be free to go under a bosman once he gets to Jan? I know the chances of signing a player in that condition is minimal, but it is possible that anybody over 23 with less than 6 months left can be aproached. Is that right?
Can't pretend that I know too much about the player or his history with your club, but I feel for him and his family/friends, who will have the job of taking care of him & keeping his spirits up over the next few months.
It's hard to imagine how much disruption an injury like this will cause. From a physical point of view, he won't be able to drive himself anywhere or enjoy a bit of rough & tumble with his kids. And mentally, it's going to be a really tough time, worrying: a) will he make a 100% recovery?; b) will he still have a club to play for and c) if not, what does he do next?
I wish him a speedy & full recovery and the mental strength to cope with whatever the future may hold.
It must also be a big job not driving yourself around the bend with the frustration of never likely being able to fulfil your potential.
Sadly i think we've seen the last of Faurlin in a QPR shirt.
Great player, professional and bloke no doubt - but unless Tony gives him a contract out of loyalty (no bad gamble IMO given the number of wasters we've paid off) there is little sporting reason to resign a 3rd/4th choice centre midfielder coming off his second serious injury in 2 years to an already bloated, expensive squad.
Sadly i think we've seen the last of Faurlin in a QPR shirt.
Great player, professional and bloke no doubt - but unless Tony gives him a contract out of loyalty (no bad gamble IMO given the number of wasters we've paid off) there is little sporting reason to resign a 3rd/4th choice centre midfielder coming off his second serious injury in 2 years to an already bloated, expensive squad.
Sort of agree sadly. 2 x bad knee injuries and he has only been a bit part player under HR and has only recently got in due to injuries. He might be given a chance in pre season depending on what league we are in and who the manager is.
Exactly...I think people's are getting a bit carried away and/or their maths is pretty poor!
The end of June, when his contract expires, is a full 8 months from the injury.
"Full" recovery time from ACL reconstruction nowadays is 9 months. I know this, I've going through it now. I had the worse rupture you can have. I'm also not a professional sportsman, work 5 days a week so an unable to do rehab "full time" and only have the cover to see my physio once a month. Ale is a professional sportsman, will be able to do rehab "full time" and will be subject to the best physio support day on day out.
He will be be fully fit by the start of next season at worst. His knee will be strong enough after 7 months to undertake pre-season training from a fitness perspective. The only issue is his game time will be limited meaning he won't be "match sharp" come next season's ko. This should take 1-2 months of well handled training, reservice and first team appearances to develop.
So, we're looking at having him 100% again by October 2014....at the worst. The above our all cautious estimates. He was was starting in the first team inside 9 months last time, I believe and the most recent high profile sporting ACL injury - Tiger Wood's wife, the skier - was skiing competively again inside 7 months.
Given all that, it would be mad not to give him a 1 yr deal. The risk is minimal as he's likely to be available for almost all the season. If either knee goes again during that season then you're on liable to pay him till June '15.
All this talk of him taking a pay cut, not taking pay, etc is nonsense. He's be fully fit by October at the absolute worse.
Sorry disagree with this. having had both knees done I think I can safely say he will never get back to the state he is now let alone before the first one. Simple fact is he is not the same player as he was before the first one.
You lose pace when once you've had one done and there are many players who are testimony to that. You have to adapt your play and reinvent yourself to a large degree. Faurlin was never the quickest before the first ACL - he has a good football brain but he was rushed back too soon and has taken an eternity to adapt, hence the months of mediocre performance both here and on loan - even if he was in and out of the side here and in Italy. He was finally learning to adapt and has had a couple of good games. Encouraging but too many are still remembering the player he was before the first ACL.
After the second ACL you have to not only reinvent yourself again but there fear factor of challenging too hard knowing that both knees have gone is an immense hurdle to overcome. Love the guy, admire his dedication and loyalty - support him medically but for a business to give him a contract extension? sorry emotions aside makes no sense whatsoever. Pay as you play maybe until such time you have proved yourself but that's it.
And according to the rankings on the side he is currently MOM for the game against Derby - sympathy vote?
Sorry disagree with this. having had both knees done I think I can safely say he will never get back to the state he is now let alone before the first one. Simple fact is he is not the same player as he was before the first one.
You lose pace when once you've had one done and there are many players who are testimony to that. You have to adapt your play and reinvent yourself to a large degree. Faurlin was never the quickest before the first ACL - he has a good football brain but he was rushed back too soon and has taken an eternity to adapt, hence the months of mediocre performance both here and on loan - even if he was in and out of the side here and in Italy. He was finally learning to adapt and has had a couple of good games. Encouraging but too many are still remembering the player he was before the first ACL.
After the second ACL you have to not only reinvent yourself again but there fear factor of challenging too hard knowing that both knees have gone is an immense hurdle to overcome. Love the guy, admire his dedication and loyalty - support him medically but for a business to give him a contract extension? sorry emotions aside makes no sense whatsoever. Pay as you play maybe until such time you have proved yourself but that's it.
And according to the rankings on the side he is currently MOM for the game against Derby - sympathy vote?
Hard to disagree with that.
Added "complication" is that, hopefully, we will be in Premier League so that obviously means only a 25 man squad allowed, so difficult to justify giving one of those places to someone who may still, by then, not be 100% fit.
Like all, would love to see him in the b&w hoops again, sadly, just don't think we will.
Added "complication" is that, hopefully, we will be in Premier League so that obviously means only a 25 man squad allowed, so difficult to justify giving one of those places to someone who may still, by then, not be 100% fit.
Like all, would love to see him in the b&w hoops again, sadly, just don't think we will.
I reckon that no one on here really has a Scooby Do about just how complex this situation already is or could become with regards the complexities of employment law and duty of care/employer responsibilities.
It would be interesting to understand whether a footballer "contracted" to a club is considered an employee and covered by certain laws and regulations for holidays, pensions, healthcare insurance, or simply employed as an external contractor with a very different legal position.
If Ale Faurlin was injured in the course of undertaking his regular duties as per his agreed contract, would there then be a duty of care for the club to ensure that he is allowed to recuperate from those injuries and then allow him to prove that he is fit and able to work and therefore they would be mandated to extend his contract as necessary to allow him the time to do this???
I would like to think the proper procedures are in place to protect not only the player but also the club as well. There does have to be a balance, but the club should look after the gooduns. How you define "look after" I don't know though.
I seem to remember talk of something in Dunne's contract which protected us if he broke down. That, to my mind, bodes well for Faurlin in that it suggests the club can come up with flexible contracts which suite both player and club. Here's hoping, anyway!
RFA
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
Added "complication" is that, hopefully, we will be in Premier League so that obviously means only a 25 man squad allowed, so difficult to justify giving one of those places to someone who may still, by then, not be 100% fit.
Like all, would love to see him in the b&w hoops again, sadly, just don't think we will.
It's not hard to disagree with it at all.
It's not "fact" in any shape that you "lose pace". It's a misconception that all players do. Some do, some don't. And often you can't distinguish those that do, from just being a year older, especially for players picking it up at the end of the career.
Adrian Peterson, the best running back (yes, running!) in the NFL, ruptured his ACL. He's come back, quicker and stronger with improved stats and his role involves enormous around of lateral cuts and high impact collisions.
Besides, surely he point that pace wasn't a key part of his game means it's not that much of an issue if he is a player that loses a little when he returns??
Would you give Onouha a place in the Prem squad if he tears his other hamstring in pre-season? Would you give AJ a place if he picks up a niggle? In both situations they'd miss no more of next season that Ale will....and he will be fully healed by the time he season starts, just lacking in match sharpness, which I've included in the Oct 'ready' time.
ACL rehab is as much mental as anything else. Whilst some players do struggle to overocme it and don't go in "as hard" or feel as confident, there are plenty of examples of people who come back as good as they were or better. Different people approach it differently.
But from a purely medical perspective, surgery and rehab have developed so much in the last 10 years that, providing there's no complications in surgery, with thorough 'full time', attentive rehab (all of which he'll get) there is no reason why "physically" he won't be as fit and strong as he's ever been. It's a football misconception steeped in evidence that is out of date, that "they're never the same player".
It's not "fact" in any shape that you "lose pace". It's a misconception that all players do. Some do, some don't. And often you can't distinguish those that do, from just being a year older, especially for players picking it up at the end of the career.
Adrian Peterson, the best running back (yes, running!) in the NFL, ruptured his ACL. He's come back, quicker and stronger with improved stats and his role involves enormous around of lateral cuts and high impact collisions.
Besides, surely he point that pace wasn't a key part of his game means it's not that much of an issue if he is a player that loses a little when he returns??
Would you give Onouha a place in the Prem squad if he tears his other hamstring in pre-season? Would you give AJ a place if he picks up a niggle? In both situations they'd miss no more of next season that Ale will....and he will be fully healed by the time he season starts, just lacking in match sharpness, which I've included in the Oct 'ready' time.
ACL rehab is as much mental as anything else. Whilst some players do struggle to overocme it and don't go in "as hard" or feel as confident, there are plenty of examples of people who come back as good as they were or better. Different people approach it differently.
But from a purely medical perspective, surgery and rehab have developed so much in the last 10 years that, providing there's no complications in surgery, with thorough 'full time', attentive rehab (all of which he'll get) there is no reason why "physically" he won't be as fit and strong as he's ever been. It's a football misconception steeped in evidence that is out of date, that "they're never the same player".
Sorry just giving my experience based on being a full time professional sportsman once upon a time - but hey ho what would I know?
Many sportsmen have come back and performed near to their previous level but only because they have adapted and aren't the same player they were before. Like I said I've done both knees - one twice in fact so have got to know the surgeons and physio's quite well and there really hasn't been that much medical advance in the last few years other than the growing of ligaments etc in labs. Sports science/physio has come on a bit.
To clarify what I meant re his pace - he had little before the first ACL injury and that was the weakest part of game. He is definitely slower since making that part even weaker and has taken an awful long while to adapt his game. So if he takes another eternity to adapt his game again we'll be back exactly where we are - a player who whilst may be "fit" will be in and out of the side and we'll be repeating history over and over again.
So IMO it is an issue big enough not to give a new contract to unless it is pay as you play.
Sorry just giving my experience based on being a full time professional sportsman once upon a time - but hey ho what would I know?
Many sportsmen have come back and performed near to their previous level but only because they have adapted and aren't the same player they were before. Like I said I've done both knees - one twice in fact so have got to know the surgeons and physio's quite well and there really hasn't been that much medical advance in the last few years other than the growing of ligaments etc in labs. Sports science/physio has come on a bit.
To clarify what I meant re his pace - he had little before the first ACL injury and that was the weakest part of game. He is definitely slower since making that part even weaker and has taken an awful long while to adapt his game. So if he takes another eternity to adapt his game again we'll be back exactly where we are - a player who whilst may be "fit" will be in and out of the side and we'll be repeating history over and over again.
So IMO it is an issue big enough not to give a new contract to unless it is pay as you play.
I'm not discrediting your experiences.
But you're still failing to accept what is reality.
"Many sportsman have come back and performed near to their previous levels but only because they have adapted and aren't the same player"
No. Not true. Some get better than 'near to', they do reach the same level. That is undeniable Not all, not every time but it is possible. Equally, some don't adapt at all - they are doing exactly what they did before, in some cases better (e.g. Adrian Peterson who's now considered up there as a Hall of Fame RB).
Equally, in terms of advances, again, not discrediting your experiences, so no need to get defensive. But it's not inaccurate to say going through ACL reconstruction and rehab, say 10 yrs ago, has to be less relevant than going through it now. When I say medical advances, i don't mean just huge leaps in science but slightly improved surgery procedure, reduced re-rupture rates, a better understanding of which grafts are more suitable for which type of rupture, better dealing with miniscus tissue tears (which can be so dehibilitating), as well as the vastly improved physio and sports science approach. That all helps. Again, as I've pointed out, recovery periods are decreasing (7 months ago for a skier to be in competitive action would have been unthinkable even 2-3 years ago)...so there must be improvements overall.
I understand re. your point re. pace but simply don't agree. If it wasn't in your game, it can't be a big loss! Yes, it will forever be a weakness and possibly a bigger one, but he wasn't exactly hunting down box to box midfielders before the first ACL. He has always had pace up top, in his football brain...he won't lose that.
I don't see why the rush to make the decision now.
It's 8 months before his contract is up. 8 months. Make a decision then. You'll have a pretty decent idea whether he's rehabed well or had complications. He'll be training so the "experts" on the coaching staff can see for themselves how quick he is. Given how training and matches are analysed now, they'll be able to compare his sprint times, long distance run times, etc.
Make a decision then. I think they'll get to 8 months and he'll have recovered very well and they'll think...he'll be back available, we know he got back to a decent level last time, he's not expensive, he's the right sort, the fans like him...let's give him a 1yr deal so we're not at massive risk and with potential for large reward.
For all these reasons I think it's a pretty straightforward common sense decision.
Not sure if this has been mentioned as theres so many posts to go through but it would be great if we all sang "FAURLIN FAURLIN FAURLIN" etc every home game on the 32nd minute ?.
Even adapt the Elvis Presley song "I cant help Faurlin in love with you"
Sorry disagree with this. having had both knees done I think I can safely say he will never get back to the state he is now let alone before the first one. Simple fact is he is not the same player as he was before the first one.
You lose pace when once you've had one done and there are many players who are testimony to that. You have to adapt your play and reinvent yourself to a large degree. Faurlin was never the quickest before the first ACL - he has a good football brain but he was rushed back too soon and has taken an eternity to adapt, hence the months of mediocre performance both here and on loan - even if he was in and out of the side here and in Italy. He was finally learning to adapt and has had a couple of good games. Encouraging but too many are still remembering the player he was before the first ACL.
After the second ACL you have to not only reinvent yourself again but there fear factor of challenging too hard knowing that both knees have gone is an immense hurdle to overcome. Love the guy, admire his dedication and loyalty - support him medically but for a business to give him a contract extension? sorry emotions aside makes no sense whatsoever. Pay as you play maybe until such time you have proved yourself but that's it.
And according to the rankings on the side he is currently MOM for the game against Derby - sympathy vote?
Sorry dolcelatte, it's easy to disagree with most of that, especially the part of your post that comments on the state of AF in the short-term.
Your post overall seems to contain a lot of opinion, some questionable extrapolation from personal experience, and a fair bit of supposition and assumption too. Shooting in the dark,like us all,shirley? Have any of us really got much of an expert ITK scrappy-do?
Let's try and look at some cold hard facts. A mere 6 days ago Senor El paesan hombre Ale Faurlin was made Man of the Match for his performance against Wigan Athletic. Look very carefully and meticulously to coin a certain sparkless phrase - using freeze frame and rewind if you must - at the following YouTube video recording every touch of the ball AF made in 2 minutes 1 second and ask yourself the following questions:
(1) Was he exposed for pace?
(2) Did he ever get caught in possession?
{Some opinion & illustrative analysis needed here : I think HR finally lost all patience with Karl Henry (& I doubt if we'd see him first choice for a while if we were not so hit by injuries) for the criminal immobility he showed in getting caught in possession allowing the Clarets a fast break for the crucial match-turning opening goal at Turf Moor on 65 minutes on 26th October. Another thing to note is that Barton who has otherwise been in great form in many other facets of his game has been shown up for lack of pace whilst defending too deep several times of late e.g. clumsy challenge towards his own goal enabling Millwall's last minute equaliser,Burnley's 2nd goal penalty was down to his slow clumsy challenge, and thirdly he nearly gifted Derby a straightforward goal in the 1st half after losing the ball on the D of the area.}
(3) Did he flinch from or bottle any challenge that came his way?
{No fear shown whatsoever,as all can see he wholeheartedly wins three tackles.}
(4) Did any of his passes go astray or were intercepted ?
Well surely it's inarguable that any objective independent, non-partisan, objective non-sentimental observer with functioning 20/20 vision has only one way of responding to those 4 questions? That would be :
(1)No (2)No (3)No (4)No
*"you can safely say he will never get back to the state he is now" [sic] (I presume you mean as of the 76th minute v Derby County immediately prior to the injury.) No supporting evidence or fact there,mere supposition; extrapolating from your own personal experience. Hunter safely says he can. Why should I believe your opinion more than his?
"Simple fact is he is not the same player he was before the first one." Never mind the veracity or rightness of your opinion,that opinion is nevertheless still opinion not fact. I think actually that like Gallen post his awful scoring leg-break at Pompey on August 23rd 1996, AF had lost pace undoubtedly of course but he was showing encoraging signs of learning how to adapt his game effectively. In the nightmare 2 seasons in the Prem his standout perfs for me were in the 2-1 loss at Spuds and the 3-2 home loss to City the season before....
MID OVERLONG POST DOUBTS BREAK ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ah nuts!... ..suffice to say even though I enjoyed your excellent spelling and authoratitive yet misguided style and unimpeachable syntax & grammar, dolcelatte my fellow Hoop, I think you're substantially wrong in most of your opinions and conclusions in that comment. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Let's get back on track and break down a few more of the misassumptions of your post -
***"too many people are remembering the player he was before the first ACL." No,I am looking at the facts of the performance of the player who was MOM at the DW Stadium just six days ago. "History is bunk" as hard-headed pioneering capitalist motor car tycoon Henry Ford in around 1920 unsentimentally said.
***According to accumulated LFW punter rankings he is MOM v Derby too - is this merely a "sympathy vote" ?
I personally would have Matty Phillips or Joseph Barton ahead of him but then again I think it's pretty reasonable to say he was,at worst, the third most effective R in the match that the whole team played well in and that's none too shabby.
Out of 36 LFW punters votes cast, Faurlin gets 7.8, Barton 7.5, and Philips 7.7..so not much in it. Unsentimental, even-handed Clive makes Barton MOM with 8 but the only other R's player he gives 8 to is Alejandro Faurlin.
Football brain is very important in his ability to adapt,I agree. As Ray Wilkins himself said he never had any pace to lose,but what an effective Director of Operations of our midfield he was in his magnificent 1990-1995 near 200 appearance playing spell at Loftus Road even if he was slow as fook ; who needs running when you can pass like that? Like Faurlin he could play easy accurate passes to feet ,as BTW can a lot of Harry's current first choice front six,Niko being the cherry on the top of that, with his fabulous careful caressing passing accuracy.
A solid defence is a basic first and then possession is all with Harry's current highly promising squad. None of that old-fashioned Tony Pulis,Dave Bassett,Graham Taylor,John Beck with their 1950's FA coach Charles Hughes inspired "get it in the mixer,play it long,it's all about the dead-ball set pieces,aerial hoofball" Position Of Maximum Opportunity (POMO) rubbish.
[Post edited 6 Nov 2013 4:20]
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
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