| Paul Smyth...... on 10:00 - Jun 23 with 2808 views | Blue_Castello |
| Paul Smyth...... on 21:16 - Jun 22 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
A non league player would work harder than Roberts!
Considering some on here have been banging on about how easy reducing the overheads to keep within FFP woukd be. Here we are, first week of the window and we are resigning a player on a free transfer, that we let go 18 months ago on a free transfer because he was sh!t. Hopefully a reality check for some on here.
He wasn't good enough then, and nothing has changed since. |
To be honest the majority on here don't need a reality check, the Finances are not good as far as FFP is concerned, I'm guessing you have read Clive's numerous posts and Simons detailed analysis, anything else posted is pure conjecture and wishful thinking.
Smyth was released by Ferdinand / Warburton but that doesn't make him a bad player, they made a decision at the time that they wouldn't renew his contract but we don't know their thinking, plenty of mistakes have been made on the recruitment front in the last few years.
As a couple of other posters have said, Smyth is far more experienced now, has a lot more league games under his belt, has that missing ingredient pace, scored 10 goals from the wing for the League 2 winners last year and he's on a Free. If he hadn't previously been at the club we would think that's not a bad signing because we're shopping in the bargain basement now.
Next season will inevitably be a relegation battle but a lot will depend on the players we can retain, the final shape of the squad and the improved fitness regime which Ainsworth will implement. |  | |  |
| Paul Smyth...... on 10:07 - Jun 23 with 2770 views | E15Hoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 09:50 - Jun 23 by joe90 |
This signing embodies all the problems we've had with recruitment.
All the warning signs are there.
If we do sign him I hope it works out and if it does, all credit to them.
Why do you think it would be a good signing? |
Good pace, hard worker, scores goals, still only 25.
Hungry for success and has had a good working relationship with GA and RD (there's a good video clip on YouTube of him at Wycombe during a training session with GA and RD which I will dig out if you're interested).
Was a popular lad whilst at LR, and many on here (including Clive if I remember rightly) were genuinely disappointed and a bit surprised to see him pushed out originally. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 10:11 - Jun 23 with 2740 views | E15Hoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 09:47 - Jun 23 by Antti_Heinola |
Oh we used to dream of foraging in bins. Would've been paradise for us! Best we could do was gnaw loose concrete off the kerbs of pavements. |
..And if you tell young people that today, Antti, they wouldn't believe you! | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 10:12 - Jun 23 with 2734 views | EastR |
| Paul Smyth...... on 09:47 - Jun 23 by Antti_Heinola |
Oh we used to dream of foraging in bins. Would've been paradise for us! Best we could do was gnaw loose concrete off the kerbs of pavements. |
Concrete you say? If only we could afford the water to mix it! scoops of the ready mix straight out of the bag if we're lucky | |
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| Paul Smyth...... on 10:14 - Jun 23 with 2721 views | TheChef |
Er, while everyone gets their knickers in a twist on this one, I don't believe we have actually signed him yet.
I'm in favour by the way. Pacy, works hard, nice lad, loves his mum. |  |
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| Paul Smyth...... on 10:15 - Jun 23 with 2716 views | joe90 |
| Paul Smyth...... on 01:33 - Jun 23 by SheffieldHoop |
Well ok, fair shout, we don't know 100% - But you can only judge people on the character they've shown in the past and Smyth has always struck me as a good pro working hard to maximise the opportunity he's being given, and delighted with it. You need people like that in the building. The examples I've used I don't think look at QPR like that, and they're not the only ones. It's the old good eggs, bad eggs argument. |
I agree, we do need players who will work hard. That would be expected of every player.
Last season was a disaster. It wasn't simply a case of loaning/signing players with 'poor attitudes'. It was a perfect storm of injuries, managerial change and an unbalanced team etc.
If we had a recruitment strategy we stuck to and the personnel to deliver it I believe we'd be in a much stronger position. As it happens, we've made another 180 turn in terms of style/manager and we find ourselves starting from scratch, again.
But what's actually changed? One of the first players we're linked to has all the warning signs:
Previously played for us ✔ï¸
No proven track record ✔ï¸
Known to the manager ✔ï¸
Injury problems ✔ï¸
For me, the interest in Smyth embodies all that is wrong with our strategy (or lack of). There are many warning signs, and the few positives are based on unquantifiable attributes. The popularity seems a knee jerk reaction to what happened last season.
Maybe the 'master plan' will become more clear as summer goes on? As I said before, I hope I'm wrong. |  | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 10:16 - Jun 23 with 2711 views | Loftgirl |
| Paul Smyth...... on 09:47 - Jun 23 by Antti_Heinola |
Oh we used to dream of foraging in bins. Would've been paradise for us! Best we could do was gnaw loose concrete off the kerbs of pavements. |
You were lucky. |  | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 10:17 - Jun 23 with 2693 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 10:12 - Jun 23 by EastR |
Concrete you say? If only we could afford the water to mix it! scoops of the ready mix straight out of the bag if we're lucky |
Fresh concrete powder? Luxury. We lived under a scrap heap, on a lucky day we'd get to lick the inside of an old tractor engine for tea. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Paul Smyth...... on 10:24 - Jun 23 with 2630 views | E15Hoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 10:15 - Jun 23 by joe90 |
I agree, we do need players who will work hard. That would be expected of every player.
Last season was a disaster. It wasn't simply a case of loaning/signing players with 'poor attitudes'. It was a perfect storm of injuries, managerial change and an unbalanced team etc.
If we had a recruitment strategy we stuck to and the personnel to deliver it I believe we'd be in a much stronger position. As it happens, we've made another 180 turn in terms of style/manager and we find ourselves starting from scratch, again.
But what's actually changed? One of the first players we're linked to has all the warning signs:
Previously played for us ✔ï¸
No proven track record ✔ï¸
Known to the manager ✔ï¸
Injury problems ✔ï¸
For me, the interest in Smyth embodies all that is wrong with our strategy (or lack of). There are many warning signs, and the few positives are based on unquantifiable attributes. The popularity seems a knee jerk reaction to what happened last season.
Maybe the 'master plan' will become more clear as summer goes on? As I said before, I hope I'm wrong. |
Why are "previously played for us" and "known to the manager" problems in your eyes?
Sound like advantages to me, not disadvantages - unless you've already decided that it isn't going to work, that is - in which case you maybe need to ask yourself what a good signing in your eyes actually looks like, given the well-documented constraints we're working under.
As you said yourself at the end there, you're in danger of taking one signing out of context, given that none of us have seen the full picture emerging yet. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:08 - Jun 23 with 2487 views | E15Hoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 10:24 - Jun 23 by E15Hoop |
Why are "previously played for us" and "known to the manager" problems in your eyes?
Sound like advantages to me, not disadvantages - unless you've already decided that it isn't going to work, that is - in which case you maybe need to ask yourself what a good signing in your eyes actually looks like, given the well-documented constraints we're working under.
As you said yourself at the end there, you're in danger of taking one signing out of context, given that none of us have seen the full picture emerging yet. |
Also, as other posters have already shown, you probably need to revisit your "no proven track record" point, given he's already scored goals for us at Championship level, and just been a valued part of a promotion-winning team.. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:18 - Jun 23 with 2392 views | joe90 |
| Paul Smyth...... on 10:24 - Jun 23 by E15Hoop |
Why are "previously played for us" and "known to the manager" problems in your eyes?
Sound like advantages to me, not disadvantages - unless you've already decided that it isn't going to work, that is - in which case you maybe need to ask yourself what a good signing in your eyes actually looks like, given the well-documented constraints we're working under.
As you said yourself at the end there, you're in danger of taking one signing out of context, given that none of us have seen the full picture emerging yet. |
When we had the DOF one of the issues was managers bringing in their 'own' players. It happened with Redknapp, Holloway, Warburton, Beale etc.
This has proven to be an issue for us and to an extent undermined our recruitment strategy.
I agree that a manager having previously worked with a player isn't a problem in and of itself, but in this case, I don't see it as a positive.
Two main reasons I don't think Smyth is a good prospect is because his goal scoring record isn't great and he's had injury problems. We've had this problem before with players.
To me this screams we don't have a plan we're sticking to and that's the bigger issue.
I understand we have budget restraints, but that doesn't mean we can't have a solid and consistent recruitment strategy.
My big fear is that come November results could be bad and GA is given the boot. Then we're back to square one, again, but with a GA group of players. The signs are worrying. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:26 - Jun 23 with 2359 views | joe90 |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:08 - Jun 23 by E15Hoop |
Also, as other posters have already shown, you probably need to revisit your "no proven track record" point, given he's already scored goals for us at Championship level, and just been a valued part of a promotion-winning team.. |
We'll have to disagree on that. 2 goals isn't a proven track record. We've had players with better goal scoring records than him come in and fail, there's nothing about him that says he will do better. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:28 - Jun 23 with 2349 views | colinallcars |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:18 - Jun 23 by joe90 |
When we had the DOF one of the issues was managers bringing in their 'own' players. It happened with Redknapp, Holloway, Warburton, Beale etc.
This has proven to be an issue for us and to an extent undermined our recruitment strategy.
I agree that a manager having previously worked with a player isn't a problem in and of itself, but in this case, I don't see it as a positive.
Two main reasons I don't think Smyth is a good prospect is because his goal scoring record isn't great and he's had injury problems. We've had this problem before with players.
To me this screams we don't have a plan we're sticking to and that's the bigger issue.
I understand we have budget restraints, but that doesn't mean we can't have a solid and consistent recruitment strategy.
My big fear is that come November results could be bad and GA is given the boot. Then we're back to square one, again, but with a GA group of players. The signs are worrying. |
It is indeed worrying. As Johnny Rotten said “hope makes a good breakfast but a bad supper”
Actually, it may have been Francis Bacon. |  | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:34 - Jun 23 with 2310 views | LazyFan |
The reason Smyth was released before was that he was always getting injured, and we could not sell him before his contract ran out as ... he was always getting injured.
At Orient, he had a very nasty injury with a collapsed lung. He also had many injuries at the start of his Orient stint and also as we can see here: https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/paul-smyth-interview-leyton-orient-b10
Smyth has always been good enough if he could stay fit. The problem is he can never stay fit. Last season he managed 3 months without an injury at the tail end of the season and Orient got promoted and he was their best player.
Can this guy stay fit, that is the question. If he can then Gazball will be right up his street as Smyth likes to be one on one with the defender in a breakaway move. So, perfect for Gazball breakaways.
Another factor is Kelman also played with him, maybe Wildthing thinks he can make that work as well. I am not so, sure, I am not convinced Kelman is a forward. Possibly could be converted into a player-maker as he thread a ball, but even then that's a stretch.
With Smyth I remain unconvinced as he's always getting injured. He's not as bad as Shodipo who I allege has a chronic injury which he is hiding and managing as Shodipo can play great for 15 mins but no more. This suggests to me he's managing pain on the pitch as we see it too often ... allegedly.
Back to Smyth, big risk taking him on a contract, but if that is all we can get. |  |
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| Paul Smyth...... on 11:39 - Jun 23 with 2270 views | E15Hoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:18 - Jun 23 by joe90 |
When we had the DOF one of the issues was managers bringing in their 'own' players. It happened with Redknapp, Holloway, Warburton, Beale etc.
This has proven to be an issue for us and to an extent undermined our recruitment strategy.
I agree that a manager having previously worked with a player isn't a problem in and of itself, but in this case, I don't see it as a positive.
Two main reasons I don't think Smyth is a good prospect is because his goal scoring record isn't great and he's had injury problems. We've had this problem before with players.
To me this screams we don't have a plan we're sticking to and that's the bigger issue.
I understand we have budget restraints, but that doesn't mean we can't have a solid and consistent recruitment strategy.
My big fear is that come November results could be bad and GA is given the boot. Then we're back to square one, again, but with a GA group of players. The signs are worrying. |
The manager bringing in his own players only becomes an issue if you then get rid of him and change your playing style to one completely the opposite of the one that was originally recruited for.
Its therefore the recruitment of the managers that is where the issue lies in your eyes, not the players per se, as debated on here ad nauseum.
The issue would be exactly the same if it were still Warbs, Boilface, Sir Alf Ramsey, Walter Winterbottom or Pep Guardiola - if the Board lose their bottle and panic, the issue will continue.
If they are to be believed, we've nailed our colours well and truly to the mast this time, so i think you will find we do actually have a plan that we have no option but to stick to this time. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:46 - Jun 23 with 2202 views | joe90 |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:39 - Jun 23 by E15Hoop |
The manager bringing in his own players only becomes an issue if you then get rid of him and change your playing style to one completely the opposite of the one that was originally recruited for.
Its therefore the recruitment of the managers that is where the issue lies in your eyes, not the players per se, as debated on here ad nauseum.
The issue would be exactly the same if it were still Warbs, Boilface, Sir Alf Ramsey, Walter Winterbottom or Pep Guardiola - if the Board lose their bottle and panic, the issue will continue.
If they are to be believed, we've nailed our colours well and truly to the mast this time, so i think you will find we do actually have a plan that we have no option but to stick to this time. |
The issue isn't manager recruitment.
It's not sticking to one plan. If the manager is allowed to bring in players, great. If we're going for the DOF model, then leave it to the DOF.
We've been consistently inconsistent in our approach, that's the problem.
I'm not making a case for one system over another.
Regarding your first point, sacking managers going back to square one is exactly what we do. Given our track record I find it astonishing that people think Smyth is a good option. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:48 - Jun 23 with 2192 views | JamieNaz |
How often have we had a plan that we will and truly stuck to though?
We've tried to recruit for a certain style of football and now we're going for what feels like the opposite.
Very Burnley under Dyche. Just lads who run like fùck.
Fine if we stick to that.
Not great if yr man Ainsworth is gone by December and we have a new Director of Football who wants some technical young boys in. Poor Josh Scowen. Again. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:51 - Jun 23 with 2171 views | E15Hoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:26 - Jun 23 by joe90 |
We'll have to disagree on that. 2 goals isn't a proven track record. We've had players with better goal scoring records than him come in and fail, there's nothing about him that says he will do better. |
You could say the same thing about any player joining any club at any time.
Do you think Manchester United signing Ruud van Nistelrooy was a mistake, given he famously ruptured his ACL just as they were originally trying to sign him from PSV? | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:53 - Jun 23 with 2154 views | E15Hoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:46 - Jun 23 by joe90 |
The issue isn't manager recruitment.
It's not sticking to one plan. If the manager is allowed to bring in players, great. If we're going for the DOF model, then leave it to the DOF.
We've been consistently inconsistent in our approach, that's the problem.
I'm not making a case for one system over another.
Regarding your first point, sacking managers going back to square one is exactly what we do. Given our track record I find it astonishing that people think Smyth is a good option. |
Again, you could say that about any manager or any player.
Your issue is with the Board, plain and simple. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 12:00 - Jun 23 with 2096 views | E15Hoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:48 - Jun 23 by JamieNaz |
How often have we had a plan that we will and truly stuck to though?
We've tried to recruit for a certain style of football and now we're going for what feels like the opposite.
Very Burnley under Dyche. Just lads who run like fùck.
Fine if we stick to that.
Not great if yr man Ainsworth is gone by December and we have a new Director of Football who wants some technical young boys in. Poor Josh Scowen. Again. |
As I just replied to Joe, your issue is with the Board.
For as long as people are people and we don't all become replaced by ChatGPT, you will potentially have exactly the same problem at football clubs the length and breadth of the known and unkown world. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 12:03 - Jun 23 with 2074 views | DejR_vu |
| Paul Smyth...... on 10:15 - Jun 23 by joe90 |
I agree, we do need players who will work hard. That would be expected of every player.
Last season was a disaster. It wasn't simply a case of loaning/signing players with 'poor attitudes'. It was a perfect storm of injuries, managerial change and an unbalanced team etc.
If we had a recruitment strategy we stuck to and the personnel to deliver it I believe we'd be in a much stronger position. As it happens, we've made another 180 turn in terms of style/manager and we find ourselves starting from scratch, again.
But what's actually changed? One of the first players we're linked to has all the warning signs:
Previously played for us ✔ï¸
No proven track record ✔ï¸
Known to the manager ✔ï¸
Injury problems ✔ï¸
For me, the interest in Smyth embodies all that is wrong with our strategy (or lack of). There are many warning signs, and the few positives are based on unquantifiable attributes. The popularity seems a knee jerk reaction to what happened last season.
Maybe the 'master plan' will become more clear as summer goes on? As I said before, I hope I'm wrong. |
You may be right but how many choices do we really have? The recruitment and running of the club has been such a disaster that we're arguably in the worst position we've been in since the Administration days.
It's all about context, I guess, I was dreading the first signing because I was expecting a 35 year old League Two clogger. Against that backdrop this would be a nice surprise. | |
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| Paul Smyth...... on 12:07 - Jun 23 with 2041 views | E15Hoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 11:34 - Jun 23 by LazyFan |
The reason Smyth was released before was that he was always getting injured, and we could not sell him before his contract ran out as ... he was always getting injured.
At Orient, he had a very nasty injury with a collapsed lung. He also had many injuries at the start of his Orient stint and also as we can see here: https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/paul-smyth-interview-leyton-orient-b10
Smyth has always been good enough if he could stay fit. The problem is he can never stay fit. Last season he managed 3 months without an injury at the tail end of the season and Orient got promoted and he was their best player.
Can this guy stay fit, that is the question. If he can then Gazball will be right up his street as Smyth likes to be one on one with the defender in a breakaway move. So, perfect for Gazball breakaways.
Another factor is Kelman also played with him, maybe Wildthing thinks he can make that work as well. I am not so, sure, I am not convinced Kelman is a forward. Possibly could be converted into a player-maker as he thread a ball, but even then that's a stretch.
With Smyth I remain unconvinced as he's always getting injured. He's not as bad as Shodipo who I allege has a chronic injury which he is hiding and managing as Shodipo can play great for 15 mins but no more. This suggests to me he's managing pain on the pitch as we see it too often ... allegedly.
Back to Smyth, big risk taking him on a contract, but if that is all we can get. |
On Kelman, LF, The Warbler said he thought was the best natural finisher we had before he sent him out on loan.
i thought he looked pretty good in an away match at Rotherham a few sasons back. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 12:19 - Jun 23 with 1954 views | E15Hoop |
| Paul Smyth...... on 12:03 - Jun 23 by DejR_vu |
You may be right but how many choices do we really have? The recruitment and running of the club has been such a disaster that we're arguably in the worst position we've been in since the Administration days.
It's all about context, I guess, I was dreading the first signing because I was expecting a 35 year old League Two clogger. Against that backdrop this would be a nice surprise. |
I would respectfully suggest that the position we're in now is no different to what it would be if we'd just missed out on the play-offs.
Its purely and simply down to FFP - nothing else.
It would be exactly the same issue regardless of who the manager is.
The only difference would be if we'd had a steady conveyor belt of Academy prospects already rolling.
Who knows - maybe Heston is going to prove to be the magic pill we've all been waiting for?
Certainly the leadership would like us all to believe that, it seems. | | | |
| Paul Smyth...... on 12:27 - Jun 23 with 1911 views | kensalriser |
If we'd just missed the playoffs we'd be far more likely to get some half decent transfer fees, so I think the situation would be quite different. |  |
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| Paul Smyth...... on 12:28 - Jun 23 with 1907 views | Rangersw12 |
I can understand the Smyth signing ( if it happens ) he is cheap , gives us pace and would suit kick and rush football that we will clearly be playing next season .
Scowen is a signing that worries me , he come across as a twt and didn't exactly leave on good terms with the fans | | | |
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