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Another US school shooting on 16:12 - May 25 by BryanSwan
A man without a gun can cause a lot less damage than one with a gun, it is simple. Americans just do not want to give up their precious guns. It matters not how many children die so long as they can keep their guns.
If you dont address a problem it remains a problem.
Again, the option isn’t “a man without a gun”.
A responsible gun owner is not a problem, so saying “a man without a gun” isn’t addressing the target problem. You just cited Australia as a model society with guns… yet 3.5 million registered guns - barely an issue.
The issue is “a criminal or mentally ill person with a gun” - and those are the guns that wouldn’t be given up by making it illegal. Criminals don’t care about what is or isn’t illegal, that’s why they are criminals.
There won’t be any gun fairies coming in the night and taking them all away as soon as a law is passed. It just means good intentioned people who would never cause an issue anyway would give them up, and those that are causing the problems would keep them.
What does that solve?
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Let’s say there is an amnesty tomorrow and people are offered $200 to turn in their gun and every single person agrees. Where is the country going to find $80 billion from to service the amnesty?
Let’s say 75% turn in their guns, that’s $60 billion immediately plus a potential 80-100 million people left facing a decade in prison let’s say.
Where will they put them all? It costs $100k a year to put someone in prison. So 100 million for ten years is $100 billion, plus the $60 billion you already paid out to those who turned in their guns.
That’s about 3 times the whole GDP of countries like Croatia and Uruguay. Just that alone.
So what appears “simple” in a lot of people’s minds, is certainly far from that on every single level. From financial, to social to logistically - it’s just not realistic or feasible.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Another US school shooting on 16:45 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus
We can do some maths too. 400 million guns right?
Let’s say there is an amnesty tomorrow and people are offered $200 to turn in their gun and every single person agrees. Where is the country going to find $80 billion from to service the amnesty?
Let’s say 75% turn in their guns, that’s $60 billion immediately plus a potential 80-100 million people left facing a decade in prison let’s say.
Where will they put them all? It costs $100k a year to put someone in prison. So 100 million for ten years is $100 billion, plus the $60 billion you already paid out to those who turned in their guns.
That’s about 3 times the whole GDP of countries like Croatia and Uruguay. Just that alone.
So what appears “simple” in a lot of people’s minds, is certainly far from that on every single level. From financial, to social to logistically - it’s just not realistic or feasible.
It’s not simple.
That’s not an reason not to try.
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Another US school shooting on 17:02 - May 25 with 944 views
Another US school shooting on 16:45 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus
We can do some maths too. 400 million guns right?
Let’s say there is an amnesty tomorrow and people are offered $200 to turn in their gun and every single person agrees. Where is the country going to find $80 billion from to service the amnesty?
Let’s say 75% turn in their guns, that’s $60 billion immediately plus a potential 80-100 million people left facing a decade in prison let’s say.
Where will they put them all? It costs $100k a year to put someone in prison. So 100 million for ten years is $100 billion, plus the $60 billion you already paid out to those who turned in their guns.
That’s about 3 times the whole GDP of countries like Croatia and Uruguay. Just that alone.
So what appears “simple” in a lot of people’s minds, is certainly far from that on every single level. From financial, to social to logistically - it’s just not realistic or feasible.
How much are those 19 kids lives worth, and the many hundreds that will follow due to such crimes?
Countries budgets are not kept in vaults anymore, countries create money all the time.
Initiating policy to get rid of guns is more down to not wanting to, half the country would riot if you took away their shooty shooty bang bangs. USA land of the free, but also dead.
Another US school shooting on 16:17 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus
Again, the option isn’t “a man without a gun”.
A responsible gun owner is not a problem, so saying “a man without a gun” isn’t addressing the target problem. You just cited Australia as a model society with guns… yet 3.5 million registered guns - barely an issue.
The issue is “a criminal or mentally ill person with a gun” - and those are the guns that wouldn’t be given up by making it illegal. Criminals don’t care about what is or isn’t illegal, that’s why they are criminals.
There won’t be any gun fairies coming in the night and taking them all away as soon as a law is passed. It just means good intentioned people who would never cause an issue anyway would give them up, and those that are causing the problems would keep them.
What does that solve?
For many Dr Pit really is. A man and his gun. It still resonates
Trust me,they love guns ,really they do. My own nephew in WPB will testify .
It is a culture shift that is needed.
No,you do not want a farming gun in your glove compartment when you go to the mall.
Another US school shooting on 17:02 - May 25 by BryanSwan
How much are those 19 kids lives worth, and the many hundreds that will follow due to such crimes?
Countries budgets are not kept in vaults anymore, countries create money all the time.
Initiating policy to get rid of guns is more down to not wanting to, half the country would riot if you took away their shooty shooty bang bangs. USA land of the free, but also dead.
They create money by taxing people and economies plunge into chaos.
How many children will die from poverty trying to raise 3 times the national GDP of a large European country through taxes?
It’s not about what lives are worth, it’s about what is realistic. If I asked you to spare my life for £1m and you say you can’t, that would be understandable. It would be ludicrous for me to reply “so my life isn’t worth paying for?”.
I have been through the reasons these things aren’t feasible or realistic. Even if the fantasy was realised and every single person handed in their guns (which would never happen) the country would be crippled.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Another US school shooting on 14:40 - May 25 by BryanSwan
The problem is your view and that is the one held by most Americans, nobody should have a gun it is not needed, responsible owner or not. Unless guns are banned and ownership becomes illegal many more will die. Do you really believe there is a place for such gun ownership in a modern society?
In many places in America there is definitely valid reason for gun ownership. If you’re living somewhere rural you could be hours away from the nearest police officer. They have massive bears, mountain lions, cougars, pumas, alligators etc.
Not sure you need them in the big cities though.
[Post edited 25 May 2022 17:38]
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Another US school shooting on 17:36 - May 25 with 923 views
Another US school shooting on 17:22 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus
They create money by taxing people and economies plunge into chaos.
How many children will die from poverty trying to raise 3 times the national GDP of a large European country through taxes?
It’s not about what lives are worth, it’s about what is realistic. If I asked you to spare my life for £1m and you say you can’t, that would be understandable. It would be ludicrous for me to reply “so my life isn’t worth paying for?”.
I have been through the reasons these things aren’t feasible or realistic. Even if the fantasy was realised and every single person handed in their guns (which would never happen) the country would be crippled.
I hope you never get put in a situation where guns have an impact on your life like they have many others. Have a good evening.
Another US school shooting on 07:26 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus
You know Presidents don't have that power... don't you? It's their constitution.
But again, another poster using such a tragedy to point score politically is pretty abhorrent. Gun laws have been in America since the late 1700's.
Since 1800 there has been 17 Democrat Presidents, Biden being prompted to utter some words doesn't change anything and won't change anything.
The people will decide what they want. Any proposed amendment to the Constitution has to be passed by both the House and the Senate with two thirds majorities. It would then need to be ratified by three fourths of the 50 states.
What the current Presidents personal views on gun laws are, is neither here nor there.
Their constitution was essentially plagiarised from the English bill of rights. Probably the most important act ever enacted (alongside the Scottish claim of rights). The Founding Fathers weren’t these great visionaries. They nicked it almost in its entirety, took out the bits about the king and added some bollocks from the Magna Carta revival that was en vogue at the time. It’s essentially the only country in the world founded on an idea. Apart from Israel possibly.
But in many ways it’s a crap idea. From slavery to prohibition to guns they have always struggled to shake off their aching anachronisms. And it’s all because of this bloody constitution. The only bit worth its salt in the 21st century is the first amendment.
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Another US school shooting on 18:05 - May 25 with 900 views
Another US school shooting on 17:43 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus
Whether I am in that situation or not is irrelevant, it doesn’t change the reality that what you are suggesting is fantasy.
Me being personally impacted doesn’t make it any more viable an option.
It’s like saying, “instead of planes crashing why don’t you put big cartoon springs in them so they bounce when they hit the ground”.
Me explaining why that isn’t feasible and the responses being:-
“I hope you are never put into a situation where a plane crash affects you”
And
“We can at least try, it’s better than doing nothing”.
A plane crash affecting me directly still won’t make putting cartoon springs on them any more an idea that is implementable, as great as it would be.
What you are saying is that you don't think it is a viable option. You explained above that you do not understand how financial economics on a countries scale works is all you did. Im not bothering with you from this point to be fair, you are either on the wind up or really do hold some ridiculous beliefs. As previously, i hope you have a nice evening.
In many places in America there is definitely valid reason for gun ownership. If you’re living somewhere rural you could be hours away from the nearest police officer. They have massive bears, mountain lions, cougars, pumas, alligators etc.
Not sure you need them in the big cities though.
[Post edited 25 May 2022 17:38]
I'm definitely sure that an 18 year old boy living in a fairly quiet town didn't need an AR-15 with an extra large capacity magazine.
Why does any ordinary citizen need military grade firearms?
I've heard all the reason and excuses, none of them make any sense. In 2020 there were over 45000 firearm related deaths in the USA, the police can't stop them, the good guy with a gun never seems to be there either.
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Another US school shooting on 18:15 - May 25 with 893 views
Their constitution was essentially plagiarised from the English bill of rights. Probably the most important act ever enacted (alongside the Scottish claim of rights). The Founding Fathers weren’t these great visionaries. They nicked it almost in its entirety, took out the bits about the king and added some bollocks from the Magna Carta revival that was en vogue at the time. It’s essentially the only country in the world founded on an idea. Apart from Israel possibly.
But in many ways it’s a crap idea. From slavery to prohibition to guns they have always struggled to shake off their aching anachronisms. And it’s all because of this bloody constitution. The only bit worth its salt in the 21st century is the first amendment.
The constitution and the pros and cons of it as a concept is one for another debate I would say.
The fact of the matter is there are hundreds of millions of guns in the country and that cannot be reversed no matter how many laws are passed.
Not every country that has guns has so many frequent atrocities, so tackling the tool seems futile. The real challenge is tackling why people are doing it.
I go back to the mental health crisis in the States, it’s terrifying. That is what needs to be tackled, not the fantasy that everyone is going to suddenly hand over their guns.
The latest data suggests 20% of Americans have a mental health disorder and 50% of Americans will be diagnosed with a mental health disorder in their lifetime… 50%!
The best way to achieve this is internal prosperity which can help prevent people spiralling into depression. This is why having a strong economy and leadership that knows how to improve standards of living is absolutely vital.
I can’t imagine the damage Biden has done to the mental health of a lot of Americans who are now struggling to feed their families, losing their jobs and are feeling incredibly hopeless.
Sadly there is no quick fix and no easy answer to some of the problems the country faces.
If anyone wants a glimpse into the state of some of the people in America in terms of drug dependence and mental health, look at this video driving through Philadelphia.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
It's being reported that the gunman purchased 2 assault rifles on his 18th birthday - yet he cannot celebrate his birthday in a bar for another 3 years.
Absolutely crazy.
Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎
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Another US school shooting on 18:19 - May 25 with 886 views
Another US school shooting on 18:06 - May 25 by BryanSwan
What you are saying is that you don't think it is a viable option. You explained above that you do not understand how financial economics on a countries scale works is all you did. Im not bothering with you from this point to be fair, you are either on the wind up or really do hold some ridiculous beliefs. As previously, i hope you have a nice evening.
You think they would just print more money I take it? Or ask the tooth fairy to come down and give them $160 billion without raising taxes or affecting the quality of life of its citizens?
You can keep bidding me a good evening until you are blue in the face. What you keep repeating is nonsense with absolutely no reasoning or common sense behind it whatsoever.
You don’t understand the reality of the situation, don’t understand the costs involved, don’t understand the consequences and haven’t even thought past the first millimetre of an extremely dense idea you put forward.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Another US school shooting on 18:15 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus
The constitution and the pros and cons of it as a concept is one for another debate I would say.
The fact of the matter is there are hundreds of millions of guns in the country and that cannot be reversed no matter how many laws are passed.
Not every country that has guns has so many frequent atrocities, so tackling the tool seems futile. The real challenge is tackling why people are doing it.
I go back to the mental health crisis in the States, it’s terrifying. That is what needs to be tackled, not the fantasy that everyone is going to suddenly hand over their guns.
The latest data suggests 20% of Americans have a mental health disorder and 50% of Americans will be diagnosed with a mental health disorder in their lifetime… 50%!
The best way to achieve this is internal prosperity which can help prevent people spiralling into depression. This is why having a strong economy and leadership that knows how to improve standards of living is absolutely vital.
I can’t imagine the damage Biden has done to the mental health of a lot of Americans who are now struggling to feed their families, losing their jobs and are feeling incredibly hopeless.
Sadly there is no quick fix and no easy answer to some of the problems the country faces.
If anyone wants a glimpse into the state of some of the people in America in terms of drug dependence and mental health, look at this video driving through Philadelphia.
I’d argue that in a country with a large scale mental health problem, allowing pretty much unrestricted access to high velocity assault weapons is pretty daft.
The argument “They’re want to take our guns!” is a stupid one.
Background checks and registration is the way to start.
Nobody shouts “They’re taking our cars!!’ when they register them.
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Another US school shooting on 18:27 - May 25 with 875 views
Another US school shooting on 18:06 - May 25 by Lorax
I'm definitely sure that an 18 year old boy living in a fairly quiet town didn't need an AR-15 with an extra large capacity magazine.
Why does any ordinary citizen need military grade firearms?
I've heard all the reason and excuses, none of them make any sense. In 2020 there were over 45000 firearm related deaths in the USA, the police can't stop them, the good guy with a gun never seems to be there either.
He also had a handgun and a rifle.
Take away one form of gun (which is the lobby) and you are left with the other guns. Doesn’t really solve anything does it.
I’d rather they upped the police presence (not defund it like many clowns have been calling for), or having a select few teachers who are thoroughly vetted, get a little more in their pay packet to volunteer to be trained as designated security guard(s).
A far more affordable and feasible idea than banning 400 million guns.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Another US school shooting on 18:06 - May 25 by Lorax
I'm definitely sure that an 18 year old boy living in a fairly quiet town didn't need an AR-15 with an extra large capacity magazine.
Why does any ordinary citizen need military grade firearms?
I've heard all the reason and excuses, none of them make any sense. In 2020 there were over 45000 firearm related deaths in the USA, the police can't stop them, the good guy with a gun never seems to be there either.
Yeah that’s the point. When the constitution was written in the 18th century based on an earlier idea from the 17th century these sorts of arms were not available. The original text was probably referencing pitchforks and agricultural tools rather than actual firearms. The idea that an anachronistic legal text written four centuries ago for the time period cannot be changed or there is no effort or will to change it is absolutely mad but they are a strange bunch over there.
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Another US school shooting on 18:32 - May 25 with 874 views
Another US school shooting on 18:21 - May 25 by Gwyn737
I’d argue that in a country with a large scale mental health problem, allowing pretty much unrestricted access to high velocity assault weapons is pretty daft.
The argument “They’re want to take our guns!” is a stupid one.
Background checks and registration is the way to start.
Nobody shouts “They’re taking our cars!!’ when they register them.
Where did you hear there is unrestricted access to high velocity weapons?
All licensed gun dealers have to do background checks by law. Makes up for 80% of the gun sales in the country. There is then the illegal and second hand private sales of guns which of course won’t do a background check, just as a drug dealer won’t ask for ID and bank statements to check you are a responsible and financially stable adult.
I don’t believe the argument is “they want to take our guns!”. The argument is that if they do put a ban on guns they will only be taking them out of the hands of the people that don’t cause the issues.
[Post edited 25 May 2022 18:35]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Another US school shooting on 18:21 - May 25 by Gwyn737
I’d argue that in a country with a large scale mental health problem, allowing pretty much unrestricted access to high velocity assault weapons is pretty daft.
The argument “They’re want to take our guns!” is a stupid one.
Background checks and registration is the way to start.
Nobody shouts “They’re taking our cars!!’ when they register them.
Have you seen footage from an NRA annual get together, they're nutters. They have gun shows over there where you can buy high powered sniper rifles with military grade optics. They sell fully automatic assault rifles. The AR15 can fire 45 rounds per minute and you can (in the USA) get 30 round magazines with an effective range of 500 yards.
There is no reason that makes any sense or has any sanity why an ordinary person needs military grade weapons.
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